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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 10 2006 : 02:28:24 AM
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Hi all,
I soon find it difficult and ineffective to snip after the thin menbrane had gone. So I started pulling the tongue out as suggested in David's tooled talavya post. (but I found it more help to pull it a bit up too. And I squeeze the tongue in V-shape so that the bottom protrude more outward.)
quote:
Once I got under the skin, I found that the cutting action is more like scraping than normal cutting.
Curiously, I came up with this before reading your post in detail. The scraping is safer than the once-and-for-all sniping. My frenum is still visible. But with frequent trimming, the surface of it, around the wound, now consists of "fresh" (callus?) white in color. It's not painful to trim them, but it won't help much since they're obviously not limiting my tongue extension. So I cut through these painless callus and scrap inside them (but still with my favourite cuticle snipper )
A question/discussion:
What I now have in mind is that I can actually trim away the painless white callus so as to expose the fibers underneath. Any ideas?
On fibers/tendons:
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Originally posted by brauniver
There is one point Im not in agreement with yogani. I think the fibres can grow together again if they get cutted once. Why should they not grow together?
Oh no, he's right--- AGAIN. Tendon fibers don't regrow when they are broken. This is well-known in medicine. A broken tendon-fiber is broken forever. Before the age of modern medicine, if people had a critical tendon completely severed in a limb, they would lose use of the limb forever! Nowadays they can do operations to replace it them.
I am not quite convinced by this, David. I don't see (though it could be true) any relations between the tendons (which are connecting mucles to bones); and the looser, vaguely defined "tendons" we used here to refer to, in the frenum. (which are obviously not the same as those connecting muscles with bones).
I am not saying the conclusion is wrong, but that harsh medical fact for the poor althetes is not enough to support the claim-to-be good news for us yogis.
I even doubt the use of "fibers" (and/or the vague use of the word "tendons" which seems to be refering to the same thing in this topic) in this context as OPPOSED to "fresh". What we mean by "fibers" here may just taut "fresh" under great extension, densely packed with connective tissues and without little blood vessels.
"Connective tissues" is a better term. We cannot really cut ONLY the connective tissues without cutting some "fresh", although we can certainly avoid the nerves and blood vessels. And for me there's no reason (yet) to believe that the tissues cannot grow again.
Alvin
P.S.
After a few months without any snipping or stretching, I found my tongue could not roll backward as much as it could.(though I quickily re-gain, and then went beyond that extension again) This is not a proof, though. There are a lot of factors, like muscle coordination and strength, etc. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Aug 10 2006 02:32:33 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2006 : 12:17:21 PM
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It's not painful to trim them, but it won't help much since they're obviously not limiting my tongue extension.
Yes -- if you make a significant cut, something like a crater can appear. There is nothing to be gained by cutting the upper and lower edges of the crater, since you would only be cutting non-limiting fibers. By the way, the right and left edges of the crater may have limiting fibers, which you would notice by the fact that they become taut when you pull.
I am not quite convinced by this, David. I don't see (though it could be true) any relations between the tendons (which are connecting mucles to bones);
I believe that the frenum is 'dense connective tissue' or 'fibrous connective tissue', just like tendons. Whether or not it is classified as an actual tendon or not is a matter of semantics. But why remove it from this classification just because it doesn't connect to a bone? Some muscles of the 'skeletal' type don't connect to bones, but we still classify them as skeletal muscles. So sometimes the classification of an individual organ is based on the role of the majority of the organs of this type, not on the role of the individual organ alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connective_tissue
The bottom line Alvin, is that this kind of tissue doesn't really stretch.
Actually, tendon fibers can stretch but extremely slowly.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 10 2006 12:37:23 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2006 : 11:14:09 AM
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quote:
The bottom line Alvin, is that this kind of tissue doesn't really stretch.
Actually, tendon fibers can stretch but extremely slowly.
No disagreement here, whether it's the "real" tendon or the connective tissues. Unless you stretch so hard that you actually tear off the fibers a bit.
On the other hand, while tendon can't repair itself to the original "connected state" once it's completely broken, it does have a certain ability to heal itself for a localised damage. Just like we won't re-grow our arm if it's cut off (unlike spiders or crabs), but any localised damage in our hand will still heal.
Damage in our tendons heal very slowly, though. I once have that experience.
My point is, if we just trim a bit of the frenum, and if we gain no or negligible amount of extension from it; AND if we don't keep stretching to hold that gain; then whether we will gain some extension in the long run may just depend on how frequent we trim---whether we can catch up with the slow healing process.
What do you think??
This should not be a concern to most practioners here who are trimming the frenum, since most of you are practising kechari regularly before you start trimming.
In my case I've mentioned, I think my frenum does heal and re-arrange itself a bit that I lose the extension again after 4 months of no trimming and no stretching (though there can be other explanations as I've mentioned) |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2006 : 3:04:18 PM
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On the other hand, while tendon can't repair itself to the original "connected state" once it's completely broken, it does have a certain ability to heal itself for a localised damage. Just like we won't re-grow our arm if it's cut off (unlike spiders or crabs), but any localised damage in our hand will still heal.
The kind of healing of which you speak, is just the wound closing up and the area normalizing, so there is not more pain etc.... None of the cut fibers grow back. Ever. Or so I have been told and believe.
My point is, if we just trim a bit of the frenum, and if we gain no or negligible amount of extension from it; AND if we don't keep stretching to hold that gain; then whether we will gain some extension in the long run may just depend on how frequent we trim---whether we can catch up with the slow healing process.
What do you think??
Yes, getting rid of the limiting fibers is what matters in the long run. (Though some people like Victor are fortunate to be only muscle-limited to the point of considerable eventual extension, enough for advanced kechari.) Depending on how fast your cutting is going, I think your stretching may be not so important. |
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tooled talavya and other observations
