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Lar
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 9:22:54 PM
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I've wanted to meditate since my early 20s (now 61). I have done TM off and on over the years as well as asanas, but I've never had the discipline to establish a regular practice. That all changed six months ago. I started meditating every day starting with vipasana then discovered AYP and have immersed myself. For the last five months I have been doing DM and SB as prescribed, along with two yoga classes a week (been doing that for several years now). I added mulabandha, sambhavi along with a little kechari mudra. Much silence while in DM (mantra became very subtle) and feeling great the rest of the time. Then I experienced strong unusual sexual energy at my root. I became pre-occupied with homosexual activity. I've been a satisfied, life-long hetero, so it took me by surprise. I think I was actually flirting with some of my male friends -- and enjoying it! I backed off the kechari, but maintained the rest of my practice and I felt wonderful.
Then, two weeks ago I just crashed. I became depressed and lost interest in my practice. When I do get myself to meditate now, my mind just wanders.
I was so pleased that I had finally developed a regular, productive practice. Now I am worried that I won't be able to get back into it.
In retrospect, I realize I should have self-paced better. I'm now wondering how to find the motivation to become re-engaged. I love the deep silence I found in DM and hope to get back to it. Any suggestions on how to proceed?
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JosephUK
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2014 : 10:46:17 AM
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| get a proper guru. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2014 : 10:55:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lar
Then, two weeks ago I just crashed. I became depressed and lost interest in my practice. When I do get myself to meditate now, my mind just wanders.
I was so pleased that I had finally developed a regular, productive practice. Now I am worried that I won't be able to get back into it.
In retrospect, I realize I should have self-paced better. I'm now wondering how to find the motivation to become re-engaged. I love the deep silence I found in DM and hope to get back to it. Any suggestions on how to proceed?
It is just a phase. Something being released that is causing the mind to wander/be more active. Just keep practicing without evaluating or wishing it different, this phase will pass.  |
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Lar
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2014 : 1:56:46 PM
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Thanks, Shanti. I suspect your right. Patience and persistence.
Joseph, I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Do you think Yogani's teachings and methods insufficient?
My experience with "proper gurus" in the past have not come any where close to the quality of instruction and guidance I have found at AYP.
The progress I made in the first five months of AYP practices has astounded me. Yes I've crashed and am suddenly depressed. Would that not have happened with a "proper guru"? Who knows. My experiences to date, however, do not lead me to the conclusion it is time to bail on AYP. |
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Lar
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2014 : 3:31:39 PM
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I have a follow up question regarding the sexual energy I experienced. Is this awakening kundalini? That is what I think it is. It is centered right at the base of my spine and the area around my perineum has become sensitive and erogenous. It is distracting, bringing about strong carnal desire.
Before this awakening, the cynic in me didn't really believe in awakening kundalini, or at least didn't believe it was accessible without years of dedicated practice.
I want to encourage it to develop, but I need to figure out how to move it upwards. Does it just take time? I read about the dangers of awakening kundalini too fast. Besides cutting back, are there safe guards I can take?
I have also read here about how loss of sperm through orgasms will diminish my energy. Is this more true for mediators than non-mediators?
I have learned so much from this forum. I deeply appreciate the time and effort everyone puts into it. Your dedication and compassion are inspiring. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 02:01:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lar
I have a follow up question regarding the sexual energy I experienced. Is this awakening kundalini? That is what I think it is. It is centered right at the base of my spine and the area around my perineum has become sensitive and erogenous. It is distracting, bringing about strong carnal desire.
Before this awakening, the cynic in me didn't really believe in awakening kundalini, or at least didn't believe it was accessible without years of dedicated practice.
I want to encourage it to develop, but I need to figure out how to move it upwards. Does it just take time? I read about the dangers of awakening kundalini too fast. Besides cutting back, are there safe guards I can take?
I have also read here about how loss of sperm through orgasms will diminish my energy. Is this more true for mediators than non-mediators?
I have learned so much from this forum. I deeply appreciate the time and effort everyone puts into it. Your dedication and compassion are inspiring.
Hi Lar, the energy at the root is almost certainly kundalini. But then again, that doesn't mean much because k is just a name for the process of energetic transformation.
There is a lot of energy near the base of the spine, I would back off from it if its feeling too much, which judging by your sudden change in sexual preference it is way too much.
As Shanti said, this is a phase and it will pass in time. Consider self pacing.
Regarding seminal fluid and its relationship to energy, yes there is a relationship there but seems to be different depending on the individual. There is a process by which the sexual desire (some say fluids I don't know if that's the case really) is processed and rises up to the brow. This is different from what we normally think of as k. Then it kind of rains down from the crown.
Maybe do some more research on the lessons and back off on practices. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 10:03:07 AM
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Lar,
We seem on parallel trajectories as I have been with AYP five months and am experiencing similar surges of sexual energy, so much so it borders on orgasmic during meditation. This all started a week ago: My perineum spasms and my heart pounds; through it I maintain the mantra and circulate the bliss with my breath. I've backed off a bit on the time (SB 5 min, DM 15 min, twice daily) as a precaution. I've surrendered to the process and bliss, figuring 'it is what it is' and not overwhelming yet. The bliss has crept into everyday quiet moments, making me randy and wondering if the "Big Bang" may be on the path ahead. In any respect, I will continue witnessing and surrendering. Follow your heart and intuition, Lar, maybe inquire in the silence if you are troubled by the developments. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 10:19:10 AM
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Lar,
Just read your original post again and realized you've given up practice all together because of the depression, which would make it impossible to 'inquire in the silence' (sorry for the bum advice!). A break from practice is wise until the desire returns. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 4:48:23 PM
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Lars welcome,
Maybe it is just me. I feel or notice that we all have periods of ups and downs when we travel the path. The ups are great. The down, tough moments suck. What they are is learning moments. As shanti says something is getting released. It is important that you continue your practice. It seems that something good is right around the corner. A new insight, a deeper level of expansion. We all have these moments and each one teaches us a lesson.
Emotions are tough. I use this method all day long. It has helped with overloads and just the everyday stress of life. His book is much more detailed but this is from one of his writings. Michael Brown Here:
This is a little long so forgive me if I am spamming your thread
Remember the most recent occasion in which you felt upset. Notice how you use the mental plane as a corridor to recall the details of the incident; it obediently delivers your attention to the moment of the incident that initially triggered you. This is a useful application of the mental plane; using it as a means to fly your attention from one moment to another – whether this moment is currently unfolding or is already past. To enter a portal of upset you may also choose an upsetting experience from the past that has been festering within your thought forms right up to this present moment. You will find that your awareness of any past unintegrated event diminishes and seemingly completely disappears when you are busy and engaged within life’s demands, (which may be why you engage yourself so actively in so many "doings"). However, as you try to go to sleep at night, or as you awake in the morning, its resonance of disquiet dutifully returns. This type of upset is ripe for the picking. Whatever is upsetting you, whether something happening right now, or something from the past that is still nagging at you, is a way in.
As you recall the upset of your choosing, instead of engaging in the mental aspect of the experience, or upon the physical actions you may be considering, place your attention fully on "the feeling" accompanying it. Take note of where this uncomfortable feeling is located as a physical sensation in your body. It does not matter what you call this uncomfortable feeling, whether it is fear, anger, and/or grief. Your only task is to feel it, and while feeling it, to simultaneously take note of where it is within your physical body. Whatever the uncomfortable emotional state is that accompanies the upset, it is also reflected as a physical sensation within your body. Your task is to place your attention within this physical sensation and to "cradle it". How? Momentarily bring to mind the image of The Madonna & Child: She is gently cradling the child in her arms; there is no movement within her posture, and no attempt to change or understand anything. Her only intention is to embrace the innocence contained within her arms. As you place your attention upon the uncomfortable feeling of this upset, cradle it in this manner; there is no physical movement required from your body, nor any mental participation in this practice other than using the mental body as a means to place and hold your attention fully within your physical body upon the sensational location of your emotional discomfort.
As you cradle the uncomfortable feeling with your attention, keep your eyes open. Yes, open. As you place your attention upon the feeling within, do not close your eyes and escape from the outer physical reality of the moment you are currently engaging. The eyes you place upon this inner discomfort, the eyes that have the capacity to "feel", are the eyes of the heart. While the eyes of the heart attend to this inner feeling, allow the eyes of the physical body to rest in stillness, open, gently embracing the presence of the outer world. Notice how, as you place the eyes of the heart on the inner feeling, you instinctively want to close your eyes and disappear. This is the old habit of "mentally running away" which has often been disguised as "a spiritual practice". Do not leave, do not fly off, stay here.
Now, if you choose to, place this piece of writing down, and enter this practice for a few minutes. Pay attention to the inner and outer experience it initiates. Here are the instructions for brief review:
Remember the most recent occasion in which you felt upset.
As you recall the upset, instead of engaging your attention in the mental aspect of the experience, or in the physical actions you are considering taking, place your attention fully on the accompanying feeling. take note of where this feeling is located as a physical sensation in your body. Cradle this feeling in that location.
As you cradle the uncomfortable feeling with your attention, keep your eyes open. Simultaneously watch both the inner feeling and the outer world.
Do not be concerned if you struggle to keep your attention hooked onto the feeling aspect of the recalled upset. Remember that the eyes of the heart are weak because we live upon a planet that does not consciously develop them or appreciate what they are able to show us. The eyes of the heart develop organically through our consistent use of them.
When approaching an upset consciously in this manner, by placing our full attention on the felt-aspect of the experience, instead of escaping into mental activity or any physical behavior the mental plane encourages, we notice almost immediate occurrences:
We begin feeling more grounded into our life experience. This is because these uncomfortable feelings lead us directly into an awareness of the shadow we run away from, and by consciously drawing the shadow towards us, we approach the runway of reality. Approaching the experience of "being grounded" may be so unfamiliar to us, that as we consciously engage our landing gear, we experience a sense of anxiety. It is a bit like the moment just before a plane’s wheels impact the runway; there is a sense of "holding on" or "holding back". However, the moment we allow ourselves to relax into the uncomfortable felt-resonance within the upset we are recalling, we gradually come down to earth and appreciate the groundedness initiated by the experience. This grounding causes a sense of relief, just like the moment after touching down on the runway and knowing we are once again safely upon the earth.
Once we are grounded into the physical location of the feeling within our body, we notice that an energetic movement begins within this sensation. The actual sensation through which the uncomfortable emotional state is anchored into our physical body, which has been stuck or blocked, starts transforming. It transforms because our awareness is our tool of transformation. Often this inner movement is experienced as an upward rise of energy through our chest area and up into our head which may culminate in tearing up. Yes, as we sink down into it, it rises up! Who would have thought?
outwardly, we also notice that the more grounded into the inner feeling we become, the more alive, vital, and animated the world around us becomes. Our experience of being here upon earth ceases to appear as a flat inanimate encounter, but instead takes on a textured hue, an energetic aura. This is because we, through consciously grounding ourselves, arrive more fully into the present moment of our current experience. Only when we allow ourselves to engage fully with the moment we are in now do we real eyes how heavenly this earthly experience is.
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JosephUK
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 6:04:49 PM
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the question you need to ask yourself is if your competent to lead others to enlightenment, if you are then the guru is in you.
if you can find it then its already there and may guide the self pacing.
if not then you will require a strong sense of self and sense of humour.
to me it seems like self pacing requires a certain degree of enlightenment.
j |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 7:19:53 PM
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Long, yes, but informative! Will file for future reference! Thx Jonesboy!
Lar, do you suspect depression related to the homosexual feelings or overloading? |
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Lar
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2014 : 10:48:30 PM
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Wow, jonesboy, that is a lot to digest. I will read it again more carefully after this post.
My reason for posting here rather than a sexual related area is that it is my practice that I am most concerned with. I've struggled with depression much of my life, it is not new to me. I'm not convinced that this recent bout is even related to my practice. The last six months of consistent daily practice has just been a delight. My main concern is that I've lost my motivation and when I get myself to try I can't seem to center. As it is with depression, I've lost interest and motivation in general, not just with my practice.
I don't think backing off with self-pacing is the remedy. The practice is the remedy I believe. As I mentioned in my original post I have tried for years to establish a regular practice. Then, starting six months ago it was suddenly easy. I was able to rise early to meditate - with enthusiasm - and I've never been a morning person! In that six months I don't think I missed more than 2 or 3 sittings. That's what I want back.
I am not concerned about the sexual feelings, I mentioned it more as meaningful back story and also because I am curious if it is common. It was though my center of sexual pleasure moved back and up into my anus. I found it interesting and viewed it as a sign of progress. It's really just new scenery. Any way that seems to have past.
On most days now I have been able to move myself to sit once in the afternoon. Holidays, kids are home from college. We put the decorations away today and the kids go back to college tomorrow. So, I am hoping that I'll be able to pick up where I left off two weeks ago.
Your responses and interest, these forums with the vast depth and breadth of information, everyone's stories: it has been so valuable to me. Seeing how diligent and persistent folks are - it is inspiring to me and, yes, it motivates me as well. I feel very grateful.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2014 : 10:04:51 AM
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Your character and spiritual condition is determined by how you handle the dark shadows, and the crisis. When all is smooth and cotton candy, it's easy to get lost in a pink cloud. However, when the curves balls get thrown at us, either from external changes or internal stress/depression (or both), then the strength of devotion will be revealed.
http://www.aypsite.org/338.html - Bhakti, You are the Doorway
http://www.aypsite.org/339.html - Your Chosen Ideal
I have found that I must wish for a broader vision--something greater than myself, to proceed. If I am dreaming big, I will never fall short. Paradoxically, I can still find contentment in the NOW, even as I pursue what may be considered impossible.
What else do we have but time and space, which is a boundless platform to manifest our desires? Plenty of time, plenty of space. Well, might as well take advantage.
Practice is for living, not the other way around. The bliss consciousness is not stagnant; it's meant to come alive. "Stillness in action". I experience this more and more with my interpersonal relationships, music/art, and sudden surprises that come along. How much bliss can the body withstand? That is the question. Like a light bulb that yearns for more wattage so it can shine brighter and reach into new territory, the soul craves radiance, luminescence, illumination.
So, if you want to get motivated, you have to dream bigger. No one can implant, or prosthetically impose, that onto you. The fire is lit from within. And our path is lit by the fire of our trials. It is the tough times that light the way. God is testing us, shaping us, building us with the stress of life so we can endure more and more bliss, and find what is most truthful and everlasting.
Godspeed.  |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2014 : 3:42:47 PM
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That...was beautiful!
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Lar
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2014 : 7:33:06 PM
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Bodhi Tree,
Yes, you understand and have stripped me naked.
Larry |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2014 : 5:32:10 PM
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Larry,
Seeing as we're in the same 'meditation class', here's my email:
mf23dog@yahoo.com
Drop me a message if you ever want to compare practice notes. I can be the east coast rep, you the west!
Dogboy.  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2014 : 03:26:35 AM
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BT - that is so beautifully expressed.
Sey |
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SuperTrouper
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2015 : 03:21:31 AM
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I agree with everyone else that it is more than likely just a phase, and that you should continue. And if your newfound sexual interest in men doesn't bother you, than it's not a big deal (I personally have never been bothered by my own same-sex urges).
There're certain phases of meditation, particularly when dealing with very strong practices like SBP and insight meditation, where the energy creates stages or phases of experience in daily life, outside of the meditation cushion. A person can jump around the different stages, or progress in a fairly linear fashion if they're consistent in practice. I've spent a lot of time learning about these stages, referred to as "mind maps" by Buddhists who've mapped them out over centuries of practice. I've found they've been very helpful in helping me figure out problems related to where I am in meditation. Because kundalini awakenings and their related symptoms tend to follow very closely the stages of insight, and are very likely one and the same (imho), I've added the 16 stages of Insight meditation below, with notes on stages which I have experience. The map may prove helpful to you. The stages of meditation in concentration practices (referred to here as "Deep Meditation") are completely different than the stages of Insight practice, as the experiences and effects are also completely different, though they lead to the same end. If you want more information on the Insight maps, this is a good resource: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/dha...f+Insight/en . I would recommend at least reading the detailed description of 'The Arising and Passing Away', and 'Dissolution', as your description of symptoms are very similar to those two stages.
1. Mind and Body
2. Cause and Effect
3. The Three Characteristics - Neck and shoulder tension tend to be a significant problem in this stage, and the only way out of it is by progressing or falling back. Random muscle spasms also occur to the point that limbs or the head may jerk sharply and suddenly.
4. The Arising and Passing Away - Is extremely blissful and happy. Overzealously blissful. The mind is extraordinarily quick and witty, and perceptions are fluid and pleasant, like fine silk. Strong sexual urges.
5. Dissolution - These next 5 stages tend to come as a package deal. You have to go through them many times to be able to discern each particular flavor, as the buddhists have. But mostly these stages are marked by depression, apathy, lack of motivation, and a dark cloud over every thought and feeling.
6. Fear
7. Misery
8. Disgust
9. Desire for Deliverance
10. Re-observation
11. Equanimity - Eventually the dark cloud lifts, and equanimity begins. It feels much like stage 4, but far more peaceful and comforting, lacking in the extreme intensity of zealous bliss and strong sexual urges. This is as far as I've ever gotten (though it took only 2 months of continuous effort through insight "noting" practices).
12. Conformity
13. Change of Lineage
14. Path
15. Fruition
16. Review
There're also maps devoted specifically to concentration practices ("Deep Meditation") which are completely different than the stages and maps of Insight, as they produce a completely different experience, but are also interesting, nonetheless.
In any case, keep practicing. Hope this helps. |
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Crash Landing
