|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
AYPforum
351 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 07 2005 : 6:10:34 PM
|
634 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 3:49pm
Subject: Backstretch as prelude to meditation obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
I have found shoulderstand wonderful.
I'd like to mention to anyone who is looking for a meditation-
enhancing pose (and yes, they are all, in a way meditation-
enhancing);
I was glad of a tip that backstretch done for a long time can be a
great prelude to meditation. I don't know why this is, and I cannot
claim to be an expert on hatha yoga. Maybe it's something about
stretching those lower back muscles? Maybe it's the huge mass of
muscle stretched, since so many leg muscles are stretched and leg
muscles are more than half of the body's muscle mass. But whatever
the reason, the backstretch done and held for a while (maybe five or
six minutes or so when you are used to it) can be a great prelude to
meditation. A wonderful one. I've found my chitta-levels drop to
say maybe even a third after a good long backstretch.
By the way, if you do a long backstretch, come out nice and
slowly. This can be relative to the time you've spent in it.
Blessings -- David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Victor knows this, but I'm just chiming in to add that while
shoulderstand is indeed
> important to counteract headstand, and soothe nerves, it also does
a lot more than that.
> Shoulderstand and headstand are the cruxes of asana practice....the
queen and king of
> poses, respectively. The benefits of shoulderstand are too many to
list.
>
> So since it's great to do...but also risky to do....it makes sense
to limit the risk. Hence, my
> piles of blankets. I haven't done the pose sans blankets in over 20
years. But the pose is so
> important that....words fail. It's really important.
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Jim described it well. The 7th cervical vertebrae (vertebrae
prominans) is at the base of
> the neck just before the first thoracic. This is the spot that
tends to get the brunt of
> shoulderstand. Shoulderstand seems to be a problematic posture for
many and most
> chiropractors advise against it. If one does headstand however it
is important to releive
> trhe pressure on the neck afterwards and that is an important role
for shoulderstand and
> plough. It also soothes the nerves and gives an inverted pose that
helps counteract some
> of the impact of gravity.
> >
> > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> > There are better people than me to answer this (victor, probably,
for that matter). I'm
> not
> > real schooled in anatomy, just well trained in yoga. But let me
take a stab, and others
> can
> > correct.
> >
> > The vertebara which gets crunched in shoulder stand (and, less,
halasana) is the one
> right
> > at the base of where neck joins shoulders. It's easy to
confirm...do a shoulder stand, and
> > notice what's sitting on the floor bearing all your weight.
That's the one. Poor little guy.
> >
> > Try doing shoulder stand on smooth, carefully folded blankets (no
lumps!). A rise of as
> > much as like 4 inches is fine. Make sure that the rounded part of
the fold is the part
> facing
> > your neck, and let your neck extend a couple inches past this
(i.e. the edge of the
> blankets
> > shouldn't actually touch your neck). Shoulders and arms on the
blankets. You'll see that
> > this vertebra is now free and clear and bearing no load.
> >
> > Try an experiment. Next person you meet who practices yoga, ask
if they use blankets
> in
> > shoulderstand. If the answer is "no", ask to touch this vertebra.
It will almost certainly be
> > swollen. It's an intrinsic problem with yoga. Note, though, that
some smart people (as
> > experienced as I am) believe the dangers are overblown. But why
take the chance?
> >
> > Work hard to move all your weight up, up, up. Aim to walk on the
ceiling. And don't let
> > your elbows splay out. I use a belt to keep them narrow and
parallel. And don't let the
> > weight of trunk and legs fall on your neck. It's shoulder stand,
not neck stand. Keeping
> the
> > body quite straight, slowly move your feet in the opposite
direction of your head until
> the
> > weight is truly on your shoulders. It may seem hard to sustain,
but you'll get used to it!
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Very interesting. I thought I was pretty safe doing these
shoulder
> > > stands due to my slim but relatively muscular physique. But in
light
> > > of what you've written here, I'll certainly have to reconsider
that.
> > > Tell me... I haven't had much experience w/ spinal anatomy.
How
> > > exactly do I find C5/C6? Is C6 the one that juts out the most
at the
> > > base of the neck before it starts curving back?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Greg M.
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge, use multiple
blankets.
> > > Iyengar has disavowed
> > > > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much in the half
century
> > > since the book came
> > > > out. And I think you may be understating his rationale for the
> > > blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > > > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden (one of the
two top
> > > Iyengar yogis in US,
> > > > famed for being able to do every pose in Light on Yoga, does
100+
> > > dropbacks into urdva
> > > > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three blankets to
two in
> > > her shoulderstand
> > > > practice, only because after decades of work she is finally
able to
> > > elevate the cervical
> > > > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself creates an
enormous
> > > tunnel in the spinal
> > > > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when he's in
shoulder
> > > stand or halasana...so he
> > > > doesn't need blankets).
> > > >
> > > > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice) shoulderstand
> > > follows immediately after
> > > > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine how the blanket
stack
> > > could be modified on
> > > > the fly.
> > > >
> > > > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what you think is
right
> > > for you, plus Iyengar is
> > > > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with you, Victor!
I
> > > think we can at least agree
> > > > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know that I'd
have a
> > > much better neck today
> > > > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed kiwi fruit) if I
> > > hadn't done a few years of
> > > > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice. I wasnt'
then (and
> > > still am not today,
> > > > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground through sheer
> > > physical control.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and not at all
mentioned
> > > in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > > > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the
shoulderstand. I
> > > would certainly fold up a
> > > > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in Halasana if for
no
> > > other reason than to
> > > > prevent the occiput from taking too much pressure on the
floor but I
> > > also see a trend
> > > > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets. Iyengar
developed
> > > this blanket usage for
> > > > people with stiff necks and then decided that it would be
safer for
> > > everyone. I still
> > > > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you need less in
plough
> > > as the weigh is also
> > > > distributed through the feet rather than in a line directly
over the
> > > neck.
> > > > > This use of the blankets should be folded flat and stacked
with
> > > two or three blankets
> > > > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies off of the
vblankets
> > > on the floor while the
> > > > arms and shoulders are supported by the blankets. One should
> > > experiment with how many
> > > > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your length of
neck, size
> > > of blankets, stiffness
> > > > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or advanced with this,
use
> > > what feels the most
> > > > comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift in the neck
that I
> > > talked about.
> > > > >
> > > > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
> > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > > > > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but to work from
books.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF. Ping again
if you
> > > need reccos.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Victor,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank you. I look
forward to
> > > > > > making the adjustments for this morning's practice.
Given that
> > > > > > explanation, I can see now how proper instruction is
considered so
> > > > > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's not an
option, but soon
> > > > > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay Area (CA) and
will most
> > > > > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at that time.
Until
> > > then, the
> > > > > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg M.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
<vic@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you want is to roll the shoulders towards the the
> > > > > > shoulderblades so that the bodyweight is balanced as much
as
> > > possible
> > > > > > on the shoulders and not on the neck. the feeling should
be that the
> > > > > > neck is somewhat lifted from the floor by the roatation
of the
> > > > > > shoulders. The sequence for hand placement in halasana is
first to
> > > > > > hold the back as in shoulderstand. In some months as this
> > > becomes easy
> > > > > > then take the arms over the ehad on the floor towards the
feet. Then
> > > > > > when this becomes easy one take the hands and arms in the
opposite
> > > > > > direction from the feet but not interlocking. The final
grasp of the
> > > > > > hands is the icing on the cake. It should go along with
the lift of
> > > > > > the neck from the floor and the weight on the shoulders.
There
> > > should
> > > > > > feel no pressure on the 7th cervical vertebrae and the
neck should
> > > > > > retain as much of its natural curve as possible rather
than being
> > > > > > flattened on the floor or lengthening. Do not try to
lengthen
> > > the neck
> > > > > > but feel that the neck is light with minimal stretch to
> > > > > > > the back of the neck. stretch should be at the throat
with
> > > the chin
> > > > > > untucking and soft as the chest moves towards the chin.
> > > > > > > Does that help?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I thank you for your concern, but I consider myself to
have a very
> > > > > > > good sense of bodily awareness developed through years
of
> > > training in
> > > > > > > other disciplines. Given the nature of yoga, I find my
level of
> > > > > > > consciousness heightened even more as I do the
exercises. :)
> > > What
> > > > > > > then is the best way to increase the requisite
flexibility in
> > > this
> > > > > > area?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg M
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
<vic@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don't worry about the interlock, just keep the hands
loose
> > > or hold
> > > > > > > tghe back with them at first. Halasana takes time and
to try
> > > to push
> > > > > > > too far too fast will do more harm than good. Just take
it
> > > slow and go
> > > > > > > with the breath and the feeling. This pose and
shoulderstand
> > > should
> > > > > > > really be taught by a good teacher though rather than
from a
> > > book as
> > > > > > > the neck is very delicate and you don't want to injure
your neck.
> > > > > > > Trust me on that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just recently started doing Hatha yoga and am
following the
> > > > > > > > beginner's regimen as outlined in BKS
Iyengar's "Light on
> > > Yoga". The
> > > > > > > > second to final asana in the first two week course is
called
> > > > > > > > Halasana (Pgs 216-220 if you have the book). I'm
having
> > > trouble with
> > > > > > > > interlocking my hands and most especially with
turning them
> > > over.
> > > > > > > > Does anyone have a tip or two that will help with
this? I'm
> > > uncertain
> > > > > > > > if it's a matter of simple flexibility or if it's
more the
> > > case of
> > > > > > > > muscle getting in the way. Any advice is welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank-you,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greg M
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS I hope this is the right forum in which to post
this.
> > > If not, I
> > > > > > > > apologize.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send
a blank
> > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only,"
send a blank
> > > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank
email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my
Membership" on
> > > the group
> > > > > > > home page.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Messenger
> > > > > > > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like.
Join the fun.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a
blank
> > > email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send
a blank
> > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank
email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership"
on the
> > > group
> > > > > > home page.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > Service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a
blank
> > > email to:
> > > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a
blank
> > > email to:
> > > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email
to:
> > > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on
the
> > > group home page.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger
> > > > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the
fun.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the
group home page.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
635 From: Ram Narayan Gupta <rngupta31@yahoo.co.in>
Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Backstretch as prelude to meditation rngupta31
Send IM
Send Email
dear David!
Would you please be a bit specific about what type of asanas do you think are good for backstrech as prelude to meditation.
Thanks & regards,
R N Gupta
obsidian9999 <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have found shoulderstand wonderful.
I'd like to mention to anyone who is looking for a meditation-
enhancing pose (and yes, they are all, in a way meditation-
enhancing);
I was glad of a tip that backstretch done for a long time can be a
great prelude to meditation. I don't know why this is, and I cannot
claim to be an expert on hatha yoga. Maybe it's something about
stretching those lower back muscles? Maybe it's the huge mass of
muscle stretched, since so many leg muscles are stretched and leg
muscles are more than half of the body's muscle mass. But whatever
the reason, the backstretch done and held for a while (maybe five or
six minutes or so when you are used to it) can be a great prelude to
meditation. A wonderful one. I've found my chitta-levels drop to
say maybe even a third after a good long backstretch.
By the way, if you do a long backstretch, come out nice and
slowly. This can be relative to the time you've spent in it.
Blessings -- David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
wrote:
>
>
> Victor knows this, but I'm just chiming in to add that while
shoulderstand is indeed
> important to counteract headstand, and soothe nerves, it also does
a lot more than that.
> Shoulderstand and headstand are the cruxes of asana practice....the
queen and king of
> poses, respectively. The benefits of shoulderstand are too many to
list.
>
> So since it's great to do...but also risky to do....it makes sense
to limit the risk. Hence, my
> piles of blankets. I haven't done the pose sans blankets in over 20
years. But the pose is so
> important that....words fail. It's really important.
>
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj wrote:
> >
> > Jim described it well. The 7th cervical vertebrae (vertebrae
prominans) is at the base of
> the neck just before the first thoracic. This is the spot that
tends to get the brunt of
> shoulderstand. Shoulderstand seems to be a problematic posture for
many and most
> chiropractors advise against it. If one does headstand however it
is important to releive
> trhe pressure on the neck afterwards and that is an important role
for shoulderstand and
> plough. It also soothes the nerves and gives an inverted pose that
helps counteract some
> of the impact of gravity.
> >
> > jim_and_his_karma wrote:
> >
> > There are better people than me to answer this (victor, probably,
for that matter). I'm
> not
> > real schooled in anatomy, just well trained in yoga. But let me
take a stab, and others
> can
> > correct.
> >
> > The vertebara which gets crunched in shoulder stand (and, less,
halasana) is the one
> right
> > at the base of where neck joins shoulders. It's easy to
confirm...do a shoulder stand, and
> > notice what's sitting on the floor bearing all your weight.
That's the one. Poor little guy.
> >
> > Try doing shoulder stand on smooth, carefully folded blankets (no
lumps!). A rise of as
> > much as like 4 inches is fine. Make sure that the rounded part of
the fold is the part
> facing
> > your neck, and let your neck extend a couple inches past this
(i.e. the edge of the
> blankets
> > shouldn't actually touch your neck). Shoulders and arms on the
blankets. You'll see that
> > this vertebra is now free and clear and bearing no load.
> >
> > Try an experiment. Next person you meet who practices yoga, ask
if they use blankets
> in
> > shoulderstand. If the answer is "no", ask to touch this vertebra.
It will almost certainly be
> > swollen. It's an intrinsic problem with yoga. Note, though, that
some smart people (as
> > experienced as I am) believe the dangers are overblown. But why
take the chance?
> >
> > Work hard to move all your weight up, up, up. Aim to walk on the
ceiling. And don't let
> > your elbows splay out. I use a belt to keep them narrow and
parallel. And don't let the
> > weight of trunk and legs fall on your neck. It's shoulder stand,
not neck stand. Keeping
> the
> > body quite straight, slowly move your feet in the opposite
direction of your head until
> the
> > weight is truly on your shoulders. It may seem hard to sustain,
but you'll get used to it!
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Very interesting. I thought I was pretty safe doing these
shoulder
> > > stands due to my slim but relatively muscular physique. But in
light
> > > of what you've written here, I'll certainly have to reconsider
that.
> > > Tell me... I haven't had much experience w/ spinal anatomy.
How
> > > exactly do I find C5/C6? Is C6 the one that juts out the most
at the
> > > base of the neck before it starts curving back?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Greg M.
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge, use multiple
blankets.
> > > Iyengar has disavowed
> > > > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much in the half
century
> > > since the book came
> > > > out. And I think you may be understating his rationale for the
> > > blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > > > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden (one of the
two top
> > > Iyengar yogis in US,
> > > > famed for being able to do every pose in Light on Yoga, does
100+
> > > dropbacks into urdva
> > > > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three blankets to
two in
> > > her shoulderstand
> > > > practice, only because after decades of work she is finally
able to
> > > elevate the cervical
> > > > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself creates an
enormous
> > > tunnel in the spinal
> > > > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when he's in
shoulder
> > > stand or halasana...so he
> > > > doesn't need blankets).
> > > >
> > > > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice) shoulderstand
> > > follows immediately after
> > > > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine how the blanket
stack
> > > could be modified on
> > > > the fly.
> > > >
> > > > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what you think is
right
> > > for you, plus Iyengar is
> > > > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with you, Victor!
I
> > > think we can at least agree
> > > > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know that I'd
have a
> > > much better neck today
> > > > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed kiwi fruit) if I
> > > hadn't done a few years of
> > > > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice. I wasnt'
then (and
> > > still am not today,
> > > > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground through sheer
> > > physical control.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and not at all
mentioned
> > > in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > > > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the
shoulderstand. I
> > > would certainly fold up a
> > > > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in Halasana if for
no
> > > other reason than to
> > > > prevent the occiput from taking too much pressure on the
floor but I
> > > also see a trend
> > > > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets. Iyengar
developed
> > > this blanket usage for
> > > > people with stiff necks and then decided that it would be
safer for
> > > everyone. I still
> > > > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you need less in
plough
> > > as the weigh is also
> > > > distributed through the feet rather than in a line directly
over the
> > > neck.
> > > > > This use of the blankets should be folded flat and stacked
with
> > > two or three blankets
> > > > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies off of the
vblankets
> > > on the floor while the
> > > > arms and shoulders are supported by the blankets. One should
> > > experiment with how many
> > > > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your length of
neck, size
> > > of blankets, stiffness
> > > > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or advanced with this,
use
> > > what feels the most
> > > > comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift in the neck
that I
> > > talked about.
> > > > >
> > > > > jim_and_his_karma wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
> > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > > > > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but to work from
books.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF. Ping again
if you
> > > need reccos.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Victor,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank you. I look
forward to
> > > > > > making the adjustments for this morning's practice.
Given that
> > > > > > explanation, I can see now how proper instruction is
considered so
> > > > > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's not an
option, but soon
> > > > > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay Area (CA) and
will most
> > > > > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at that time.
Until
> > > then, the
> > > > > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg M.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What you want is to roll the shoulders towards the the
> > > > > > shoulderblades so that the bodyweight is balanced as much
as
> > > possible
> > > > > > on the shoulders and not on the neck. the feeling should
be that the
> > > > > > neck is somewhat lifted from the floor by the roatation
of the
> > > > > > shoulders. The sequence for hand placement in halasana is
first to
> > > > > > hold the back as in shoulderstand. In some months as this
> > > becomes easy
> > > > > > then take the arms over the ehad on the floor towards the
feet. Then
> > > > > > when this becomes easy one take the hands and arms in the
opposite
> > > > > > direction from the feet but not interlocking. The final
grasp of the
> > > > > > hands is the icing on the cake. It should go along with
the lift of
> > > > > > the neck from the floor and the weight on the shoulders.
There
> > > should
> > > > > > feel no pressure on the 7th cervical vertebrae and the
neck should
> > > > > > retain as much of its natural curve as possible rather
than being
> > > > > > flattened on the floor or lengthening. Do not try to
lengthen
> > > the neck
> > > > > > but feel that the neck is light with minimal stretch to
> > > > > > > the back of the neck. stretch should be at the throat
with
> > > the chin
> > > > > > untucking and soft as the chest moves towards the chin.
> > > > > > > Does that help?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I thank you for your concern, but I consider myself to
have a very
> > > > > > > good sense of bodily awareness developed through years
of
> > > training in
> > > > > > > other disciplines. Given the nature of yoga, I find my
level of
> > > > > > > consciousness heightened even more as I do the
exercises. :)
> > > What
> > > > > > > then is the best way to increase the requisite
flexibility in
> > > this
> > > > > > area?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greg M
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Don't worry about the interlock, just keep the hands
loose
> > > or hold
> > > > > > > tghe back with them at first. Halasana takes time and
to try
> > > to push
> > > > > > > too far too fast will do more harm than good. Just take
it
> > > slow and go
> > > > > > > with the breath and the feeling. This pose and
shoulderstand
> > > should
> > > > > > > really be taught by a good teacher though rather than
from a
> > > book as
> > > > > > > the neck is very delicate and you don't want to injure
your neck.
> > > > > > > Trust me on that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greg wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just recently started doing Hatha yoga and am
following the
> > > > > > > > beginner's regimen as outlined in BKS
Iyengar's "Light on
> > > Yoga". The
> > > > > > > > second to final asana in the first two week course is
called
> > > > > > > > Halasana (Pgs 216-220 if you have the book). I'm
having
> > > trouble with
> > > > > > > > interlocking my hands and most especially with
turning them
> > > over.
> > > > > > > > Does anyone have a tip or two that will help with
this? I'm
> > > uncertain
> > > > > > > > if it's a matter of simple flexibility or if it's
more the
> > > case of
> > > > > > > > muscle getting in the way. Any advice is welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank-you,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greg M
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > PS I hope this is the right forum in which to post
this.
> > > If not, I
> > > > > > > > apologize.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send
a blank
> > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only,"
send a blank
> > > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank
email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my
Membership" on
> > > the group
> > > > > > > home page.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > > > > Service.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Messenger
> > > > > > > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like.
Join the fun.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a
blank
> > > email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send
a blank
> > > > > > email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank
email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership"
on the
> > > group
> > > > > > home page.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > Service.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a
blank
> > > email to:
> > > > > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a
blank
> > > email to:
> > > > > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > > > > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email
to:
> > > > > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on
the
> > > group home page.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger
> > > > > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the
fun.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
> > To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank
email to:
> > AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
> > To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
> > AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
> > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the
group home page.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > AYPforum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com --
To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com --
To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to:
AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com
You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
637 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 4:43pm
Subject: Re: Backstretch as prelude to meditation obsidian9999
Offline
Send Email
Dear Ram,
I meant that backstretch itself, done for a long time, is great
prelude to meditation. Were you wondering if I thought others were
good as a prelude to meditation? Probably the two that also stand
out most are shoulderstand and headstand. If shoulderstand and
headstand are the king and queen, I would say backstretch is the
president. Or the prime minister. :)
When you get really flexible and comfortable with the backstretch,
it's a great one to hold for a long time. When you are really
comfortable with it, you can use a strap so that you can relax in the
backstretch and use it as a meditation in itself; you can make a
loop with it and wrap it around your legs and hold this loop with
your elbow; this strap can be used not so much to pull extra tightly
rather but to allow the body to relax deeply.
It's one to go slow with, just like all the postures. being able to
easily do a six or ten-minute stint in it might be the fruit of
months or years of build-up.
Speaking of overdoing it, I once got this great sense that I
was "overcoming a major block" when doing a backstretch and I wanted
to do it harder and harder. And I probably was releasing something
at the time. But I got hold of a strap and pulled really hard and
held for a really long time. And my leg started to get a bit numb.
And I said 'hell with it, it'll be fine, I've got this major block
being released and that is really important'. I held for about a
half-hour. The numbness in my leg did not go away when I stopped.
Nor the next day. Nor the next day. Nerve damage basically. Nerve
damage. Pride of the Yogis. Many weeks later, it was eventually
gone, so I think I got away with no permanent damage. I was a
fool, and got away with it this time. I learned my lesson. Never
again. Sometimes you might be overcoming a major block but that is
no reason to behave foolishly.
Best regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, Ram Narayan Gupta <rngupta31@y...>
wrote:
>
> dear David!
> Would you please be a bit specific about what type of asanas do you
think are good for backstrech as prelude to meditation.
> Thanks & regards,
> R N Gupta
>
> obsidian9999 <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I have found shoulderstand wonderful.
>
> I'd like to mention to anyone who is looking for a meditation-
> enhancing pose (and yes, they are all, in a way meditation-
> enhancing);
>
> I was glad of a tip that backstretch done for a long time can be a
> great prelude to meditation. I don't know why this is, and I cannot
> claim to be an expert on hatha yoga. Maybe it's something about
> stretching those lower back muscles? Maybe it's the huge mass of
> muscle stretched, since so many leg muscles are stretched and leg
> muscles are more than half of the body's muscle mass. But whatever
> the reason, the backstretch done and held for a while (maybe five
or
> six minutes or so when you are used to it) can be a great prelude
to
> meditation. A wonderful one. I've found my chitta-levels drop to
> say maybe even a third after a good long backstretch.
>
> By the way, if you do a long backstretch, come out nice and
> slowly. This can be relative to the time you've spent in it.
>
> Blessings -- David
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Victor knows this, but I'm just chiming in to add that while
> shoulderstand is indeed
> > important to counteract headstand, and soothe nerves, it also
does
> a lot more than that.
> > Shoulderstand and headstand are the cruxes of asana
practice....the
> queen and king of
> > poses, respectively. The benefits of shoulderstand are too many
to
> list.
> >
> > So since it's great to do...but also risky to do....it makes
sense
> to limit the risk. Hence, my
> > piles of blankets. I haven't done the pose sans blankets in over
20
> years. But the pose is so
> > important that....words fail. It's really important.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim described it well. The 7th cervical vertebrae (vertebrae
> prominans) is at the base of
> > the neck just before the first thoracic. This is the spot that
> tends to get the brunt of
> > shoulderstand. Shoulderstand seems to be a problematic posture
for
> many and most
> > chiropractors advise against it. If one does headstand however it
> is important to releive
> > trhe pressure on the neck afterwards and that is an important
role
> for shoulderstand and
> > plough. It also soothes the nerves and gives an inverted pose
that
> helps counteract some
> > of the impact of gravity.
> > >
> > > jim_and_his_karma wrote:
> > >
> > > There are better people than me to answer this (victor,
probably,
> for that matter). I'm
> > not
> > > real schooled in anatomy, just well trained in yoga. But let me
> take a stab, and others
> > can
> > > correct.
> > >
> > > The vertebara which gets crunched in shoulder stand (and, less,
> halasana) is the one
> > right
> > > at the base of where neck joins shoulders. It's easy to
> confirm...do a shoulder stand, and
> > > notice what's sitting on the floor bearing all your weight.
> That's the one. Poor little guy.
> > >
> > > Try doing shoulder stand on smooth, carefully folded blankets
(no
> lumps!). A rise of as
> > > much as like 4 inches is fine. Make sure that the rounded part
of
> the fold is the part
> > facing
> > > your neck, and let your neck extend a couple inches past this
> (i.e. the edge of the
> > blankets
> > > shouldn't actually touch your neck). Shoulders and arms on the
> blankets. You'll see that
> > > this vertebra is now free and clear and bearing no load.
> > >
> > > Try an experiment. Next person you meet who practices yoga, ask
> if they use blankets
> > in
> > > shoulderstand. If the answer is "no", ask to touch this
vertebra.
> It will almost certainly be
> > > swollen. It's an intrinsic problem with yoga. Note, though,
that
> some smart people (as
> > > experienced as I am) believe the dangers are overblown. But why
> take the chance?
> > >
> > > Work hard to move all your weight up, up, up. Aim to walk on
the
> ceiling. And don't let
> > > your elbows splay out. I use a belt to keep them narrow and
> parallel. And don't let the
> > > weight of trunk and legs fall on your neck. It's shoulder
stand,
> not neck stand. Keeping
> > the
> > > body quite straight, slowly move your feet in the opposite
> direction of your head until
> > the
> > > weight is truly on your shoulders. It may seem hard to sustain,
> but you'll get used to it!
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Very interesting. I thought I was pretty safe doing these
> shoulder
> > > > stands due to my slim but relatively muscular physique. But
in
> light
> > > > of what you've written here, I'll certainly have to
reconsider
> that.
> > > > Tell me... I haven't had much experience w/ spinal anatomy.
> How
> > > > exactly do I find C5/C6? Is C6 the one that juts out the most
> at the
> > > > base of the neck before it starts curving back?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Greg M.
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge, use multiple
> blankets.
> > > > Iyengar has disavowed
> > > > > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much in the
half
> century
> > > > since the book came
> > > > > out. And I think you may be understating his rationale for
the
> > > > blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > > > > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden (one of the
> two top
> > > > Iyengar yogis in US,
> > > > > famed for being able to do every pose in Light on Yoga,
does
> 100+
> > > > dropbacks into urdva
> > > > > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three blankets to
> two in
> > > > her shoulderstand
> > > > > practice, only because after decades of work she is finally
> able to
> > > > elevate the cervical
> > > > > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself creates an
> enormous
> > > > tunnel in the spinal
> > > > > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when he's in
> shoulder
> > > > stand or halasana...so he
> > > > > doesn't need blankets).
> > > > >
> > > > > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice)
shoulderstand
> > > > follows immediately after
> > > > > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine how the
blanket
> stack
> > > > could be modified on
> > > > > the fly.
> > > > >
> > > > > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what you think
is
> right
> > > > for you, plus Iyengar is
> > > > > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with you,
Victor!
> I
> > > > think we can at least agree
> > > > > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know that I'd
> have a
> > > > much better neck today
> > > > > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed kiwi fruit)
if I
> > > > hadn't done a few years of
> > > > > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice. I wasnt'
> then (and
> > > > still am not today,
> > > > > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground through
sheer
> > > > physical control.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and not at all
> mentioned
> > > > in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > > > > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the
> shoulderstand. I
> > > > would certainly fold up a
> > > > > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in Halasana if
for
> no
> > > > other reason than to
> > > > > prevent the occiput from taking too much pressure on the
> floor but I
> > > > also see a trend
> > > > > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets. Iyengar
> developed
> > > > this blanket usage for
> > > > > people with stiff necks and then decided that it would be
> safer for
> > > > everyone. I still
> > > > > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you need less
in
> plough
> > > > as the weigh is also
> > > > > distributed through the feet rather than in a line directly
> over the
> > > > neck.
> > > > > > This use of the blankets should be folded flat and
stacked
> with
> > > > two or three blankets
> > > > > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies off of the
> vblankets
> > > > on the floor while the
> > > > > arms and shoulders are supported by the blankets. One should
> > > > experiment with how many
> > > > > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your length of
> neck, size
> > > > of blankets, stiffness
> > > > > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or advanced with
this,
> use
> > |
Edited by - AYPforum on Jul 07 2005 6:11:55 PM |
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
 |
|
|
|
Backstretch as prelude to meditation #2
Forum Locked
