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flying solo
Australia
7 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 01:57:58 AM
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| I've been doing AYP meditation for about 6 months. I haven't found (in the lessons) exactly what's meant by the terms stillness and the witness during meditation. My guess is stillness means the mind has stopped or almost stopped producing thoughts. I understand this results in bliss, but I'd appreciate an actual description of what bliss feels like. My guess is that the witness means having the ability to watch thoughts without becoming caught up or involved in them. If this is correct, then I'd say I can do that well. My issue is that despite how long I've been meditating, my mind is extremely active during each session. At other times I'm always aware of a constant stream of thoughts all day long. It's as if each thought is said out loud, making them hard not to notice. When this happens during meditation I just return to the mantra as you suggest. At other times I bring myself back to the present moment, where, up until about a month ago, I would feel love and ecstasy. I should add that I've been meditating on and off for about twenty five years. During that time I had a few experiences of expanded consciousness, but mainly I meditated for the vast number of insights it produced. I'm finding any sign of stillness/bliss in my current meditation confusing because occasionally I experience what could be viewed as signs of progress, i.e. pressure in the third eye and crown regions, brief and mild feelings of ecstasy, constant energy in the root chakra area. Prior to starting AYP meditation (and while not meditating at all) I was experiencing quite intense and frequent feelings of ecstasy, synchronicities, joy and love. Those feelings have been slowly slipping away over these past six months. Not knowing what else to do, I've now stopped doing Mulabandha and Sambhavi Mudra, both of which produced quite pleasurable feelings initially, so I guess I was doing them correctly. Now I'm just doing meditation and Pranayama. I feel grief and despair at the loss of the deep love and spiritual connection of my past experiences. I'm hoping you can help me. Any advice will be appreciated, especially a description of the bliss, stillness and witness states and what a person experiences in them. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2013 : 1:19:59 PM
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Hi Flying solo,
This is all IMHO: we don't meditate to achieve experiences, as those are scenery along the path. More, we meditate with the goal of changing our perception of the world. Our perception is our only connection with the world, and when we change it, the world seems to change. So we change our perception to one that is more relaxed and peaceful. Then we find the stillness within which is full of love and our inner guru, from quieting the mind. This has to be done indirectly through meditation.
Sometimes the witness pops up, which is rare for me because it scares me, as I feel I am split in two and a stranger is very close. But often it is just as if watching yourself from outside the body.
No need to feel grief and despair or loss of deep love and spiritual connection; just practice devotion to your own highest ideal and you will have all that.  |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2013 : 12:45:01 PM
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Hi Flying Solo,
stillness is what is already still. Look closely, the space in which you see elements is still here, but you are only looking at the moving elements, earth, water, fire, air, but missing the space in which all happens. And even space dissolves in the presence, when you close your eyes which itself is already still (later even with open eyes).
The rise of stilness comes either by loving the stilness that is already, favoring it, the so called direct method or by doing practices which make the body mind more and more still and by this bringing stillness more and more into the "foreground". Not that it is behhind, inside, outside etc. It is just overshadowed and becomes more visible by going ino it, either by practices in a dosed way or directly by e.g. what you have tried out.
AYP uses the approach of bringing mind into stillness, others focus on bringing the physical body into stillness, others focus more upon bringing breath into stillness. At least these are the initial stages. Ultimately with whatever you start, all will start to become still, from the grossest to the most subtle.
Peace, bliss, beauty, love are qualities of this stillness. It is possible that you may experience some dominating stilness in an very upleasant way, because its qualities are still overshadowed too much. Like you are already seeing some light coming through the clouds but its delighting warming happy making effect is not shining through yet.
Even though it is possible to have glimpses of the sun when a lot of clouds dissolve temporarily, don't be demotivated if they close again. Over time the amount of clouds will reduce to such a degree that more of the sky will be seen and all the hidden beauties it has, like the sun, will show itself. This is not something that happens linearly, it is more of a sinus-curve that goes diagonally. All in all the layer of clouds get thinner and thinner over the longterm :)
So keep it up, do the best you can, the rest leave to that which knows how to complete what is missing :)
Peace and love to you friend :) |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2013 : 01:05:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by flying solo
I've been doing AYP meditation for about 6 months. I haven't found (in the lessons) exactly what's meant by the terms stillness and the witness during meditation. My guess is stillness means the mind has stopped or almost stopped producing thoughts. I understand this results in bliss, but I'd appreciate an actual description of what bliss feels like. My guess is that the witness means having the ability to watch thoughts without becoming caught up or involved in them. If this is correct, then I'd say I can do that well. My issue is that despite how long I've been meditating, my mind is extremely active during each session. At other times I'm always aware of a constant stream of thoughts all day long. It's as if each thought is said out loud, making them hard not to notice. When this happens during meditation I just return to the mantra as you suggest. At other times I bring myself back to the present moment, where, up until about a month ago, I would feel love and ecstasy. I should add that I've been meditating on and off for about twenty five years. During that time I had a few experiences of expanded consciousness, but mainly I meditated for the vast number of insights it produced. I'm finding any sign of stillness/bliss in my current meditation confusing because occasionally I experience what could be viewed as signs of progress, i.e. pressure in the third eye and crown regions, brief and mild feelings of ecstasy, constant energy in the root chakra area. Prior to starting AYP meditation (and while not meditating at all) I was experiencing quite intense and frequent feelings of ecstasy, synchronicities, joy and love. Those feelings have been slowly slipping away over these past six months. Not knowing what else to do, I've now stopped doing Mulabandha and Sambhavi Mudra, both of which produced quite pleasurable feelings initially, so I guess I was doing them correctly. Now I'm just doing meditation and Pranayama. I feel grief and despair at the loss of the deep love and spiritual connection of my past experiences. I'm hoping you can help me. Any advice will be appreciated, especially a description of the bliss, stillness and witness states and what a person experiences in them.
Flying Solo, welcome.
Stillness is the opposite of motion.
Our 'normal' way of being is to identify ourselves as the motion. But in fact we are the stillness.
We can't try to get stillness, we find it by letting go (vairaga). Do your meditation practice with no anticipation, no desire and no concern for the fruits of the work.
Concentration and meditation are different things, although they are closely related. The fact that you can observe an object for long periods of time without mental interruption indicates that you are well on your way. The next step is falling into the stillness, or maybe it rising within you. Your ego dies and it is born.
With all of these other things, they come and they go. They are motion and therefore temporal. Energetic experiences are healthy and normal, but they are dynamic and it is not healthy to become attached to them.
I hope that helps.
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flying solo
Australia
7 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2013 : 11:55:50 PM
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Thanks so much for your replies, received one each day over the last three days. I point this out, because the replies came perfectly timed providing time for reflection. Etherfish, when I read your reply, I realised I must not have explained myself very well, so I apologise. But it did point out to me that being self-taught (by my Inner Guru) has its draw-backs. It can lead to communication problems. I'm not yet familiar with AYP vocabulary, so I find it clumsy when trying to describe subjective experiences.
The next day I read Holy's reply. Thank you so much Holy for your lengthy and beautiful description of stillness. It was a great comfort, even though at the time it seemed I still wasn't understanding fully.
On the 3rd day during morning meditation I unexpectedly totally let go. 'I' suddenly became lost/absorbed into a vast expanse of pure awareness. It was about 45 minutes later that I came out of it. I'd been praying for an answer to my quandary about stillness. I think this was my Inner Guru's answer. What better way to teach than through personal experience? As a consequence I realised three things.
Firstly, this state is what I'd always called Being, a state I haven't experienced for 6 months. The penny dropped. AYP calls it by another name, stillness.
The second realisation came after reading tonightsthenight's reply. quote:
Concentration and meditation are different things, although they are closely related.
Suddenly I realised I'd been so caught up in trying to do what I perceived as meditation the AYP way that my meditation had morphed into 20 minutes of concentration, rather than 20 minutes of letting go and just being. Now I know why (what I simply call ) 'my spiritual connection' had slipped away. In trying harder I was forcing, rather than letting go. All the accompanying negative emotions reinforced the ego, taking me in the opposite direction.
The third realisation was that as a result of following my Inner Guru for so long, I had previously received some of the 'fruits' of the AYP, but by other names. Some things I don't even have names for. For example, I don't have a name for stage 4 Kechari Mudra, yet it's very familiar to me.
What I've learned from the above is: 1) while it can be helpful to read 'instruction manuals', nothing is a substitute for my Inner Guru and, 2) words/names/labels and other people's subjective experiences are a two-edged sword. They can be a help or a hindrance. Now I know it was just a problem on my part with relating terms to my own experiences. I also now have answers to other questions I hadn't asked in the original post.
So, thanks again, Etherfish, Holy and tonightsthenight. I'm so grateful for your support.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2013 : 12:07:32 PM
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Hi Flying Solo,
you are right, without your own experience what others say can confuse a lot, especially when the words are different but one and the same thing is meant :P
Presence, being, stillness, what is always, now, here, everywhere and nowhere, continuity, eternal, immortal, the forth state, formless, Self, truth, god, beginningless, endless, ... all hinting to the one same.
And what is found in this one and the same, nothing but love, bliss, beauty, happiness, peace, ... :)
Peace friend, lets melt in this beauty more and more and still be able to function as needed. Lucky times may come where needs decrease and beauty increases ever more :)
love |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2013 : 12:36:41 PM
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Awesome!
Keep in mind, the journey never ends, so don't be in a rush to get all the answers or make all the connections.
And yes, stillness is being. Motion is becoming. We are stillness in motion.
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Please describe 'stillness' and 'the witness'
