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Whoziz
USA
18 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 21 2013 : 5:16:29 PM
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| Is there a way of recognizing whether we are meditating correctly or if we are in "deep" meditation? I have experienced a "profound rest" in the past but it seems like this no longer happens. Is it possible to have a less effective meditation over time rather than a more effective one? Thanks for your help. Jacquie |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2013 : 7:54:09 PM
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There's not much control over how "deep" you go in any given meditation, because the amount of variables tied to your karmic matrix is incomprehensibly vast and complex. As Yogani says, the karma is unfathomable. Therefore, the antidote to complexity is simplicity. By easily favoring the repetition of the mantra, we can slowly drift into deeper levels of serenity without worrying about "how deep" we are, or whether or not it's a "deep" meditation based on the inner scenery of our body-mind. The depth is achieved by relinquishing control, and the technique of following the mantra facilitates that process.
You will never arrive at a final place of inner silence, because inner silence is endless. Furthermore, the benchmark of your depth will be determined how you feel AFTER the meditation, rather than how you feel DURING the meditation. It's a housecleaning, not a vacation (nor an analysis, nor a comparative assessment).
The proof is in the pudding of how you're flowing through your daily tasks, adventures, responsibilities, shenanigans, etc. If the flow becomes smoother, more resilient, more compassionate, then the magic potion of "stillness in action" is taking effect, and I would advise continuing to imbibe in the elixir of Deep Meditation, using self-pacing as needed.
Great question. Godspeed on your journey.  |
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Whoziz
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 1:36:07 PM
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Thank you for your response, Bodhi Tree. Now I have another question - I find that repetition of a mantra is disturbing to the inner peace or quiet I feel when I meditate. Should I go back to the mantra anyway?
I also find that when this sense of peace comes there is a natural reaction to take a deep breath. Why should this be?
Again, thank you for your help. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 5:44:43 PM
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Well, the mantra merges with the inner peace. The sound becomes the silence. We're using a vibration and mixing it with the eternal foundation of tranquility. "Easily favoring" means just that. Easy means no force, no fuss, no struggle. To favor means to choose one thing over another. So, if the choice is hard and very difficult, there is no ease. So, when it is easy to choose to begin repeating the mantra, therein lies the finesse, and the magic.
Whatever sense of inner peace you have now can be expanded. If easily favoring the repetition of the mantra brings more inner peace during, and most importantly, after the meditation, then it's working. If that's not the result, then it's not working, and you have to apply self-pacing or consider other options for over- or under-sensitive meditators. But there can and will be unpleasant sensations, because again, it's a housecleaning.
Also, breathing will definitely change, because the body is releasing stored emotions, tensions, and other blockages that prevent the natural flow of stillness in action. Check out "spinal breathing pranayama" in the lessons for a good way to distribute the energy up and down the spine.
The main thing is to find what works for you, and that may or may not be using the mantra. It's an experiment.
I have found great benefit from it, but I must apply self-pacing, because sometimes it feels like I'm a roman candle about to explode and splatter every single nerve across the cosmos. This is called overload, and it's a sign to back off, be chill, stay grounded and just glide through the day until there is enough smoothness to push the accelerator of transcendence again. |
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Govinda
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2013 : 9:00:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoziz
Is there a way of recognizing whether we are meditating correctly or if we are in "deep" meditation? I have experienced a "profound rest" in the past but it seems like this no longer happens. Is it possible to have a less effective meditation over time rather than a more effective one?
A very tricky question, Whoziz. How do we qualify "effective"? Essentially, when we are in the fulcrum of the deepest states of meditation, we are simultaneously, far less aware of the subject-object dichotomy of our ordinary existence.
Ideally, the mind slows and even stops quantifying this and that, noticing differences and polarities. Unity takes the forefront and in the Eclipsing of ones individual self and the indivisibility of Brahman/God, the incremental bloom of ecstasy, fuses one's partial view of one's subjective separation, into a seamlessly objective whole.
Slowly and effulgently, a spiritual PRESENCE becomes perceivable in our lives and we sense/feel this wholly present within all things, all beings, palpable in all places (even within the void of space). Life and living it through heightened attention, becomes a spiritual teaching, as it flows along. You could say that the meditation spills into every nook and cranny of our being, so it goes beyond sitting or interacting externally with the rest of the universe. 
In other words, in DM states of heightened conscious-awareness, we are not really observing our thoughts, even our spiritual thoughts. Thew observer is drawn out, flowing along as the I-thought, back to it's very own source (which is itself an eternal silence).
We incrementally release our clinging, grasping to our habitual mental patterns, nor even maintain our solid identification and viewing ourselves as distinct individuals. Why so? Because the process of mantra repetition or mindful breathing, brings our soul essence to the very forefront.
And while this is initially quite relaxing, bringing a serene calming... in time it is often quite electrifying. My guess is that you are in-between these two levels of experience? Keep with it, your meditational practices, and you will be delighted by the sheer exponential shift! 
quote:
Now I have another question - I find that repetition of a mantra is disturbing to the inner peace or quiet I feel when I meditate. Should I go back to the mantra anyway?
Mantra japa is just a method to loose oneself in the ceaseless chanting, to simply allow oneself to enter into the quietude of internal stillness. If this happens, I say go with the deep quietude. When thoughts arise, once more, return to the mantra repetition or if you'd prefer, follow the ebb and flow of your own breath. I humbly suggest that when the mind stops it's dominance of our inner awareness... enjoy the stillness, emptiness and and immeasurable degree of peace. 
quote:
I also find that when this sense of peace comes there is a natural reaction to take a deep breath. Why should this be?
Thanks for your help. Jacquie
I don't mean to imply I know anything at all about meditation. It's been 40 years of practice, in my relatively short lifetime, but... this only begs me to ask the question, "just what is meditation?" I may never know... and I honestly don't want to. Knowing is another trap of the ego-self, so it remains an ineffable mystery to me, which is very cool.
For myself, it is a case of awakening to a single-pointed focus and concentration. This leads to one's direct attention crystallizing and in such a heightened state, knowing is unnecessary, as being takes precedence. Some call it "no-mind" and this in turn creates a continuum of cultivating internal harmony. When we are truly within the most focused and centered states of consciousness, we are outside of ourselves (and inside of another paradigm, altogether).
And your natural response to take a deep breath is because of the prana in the air we breathe. And also, sometimes we approach the breathless state and if one is not observing the flow... rather, being within the current of the flow, we may re-emerge to find ourselves inhaling with emphasis.
More than anything, enjoy the adventure of your meditational practice and let it unfold on its own terms. Keep opening and opening, even more so. A inner tranquility will bloom and you will find yourself asking less and less questions... and allowing yourself to shift your innate conscious parameters and in the process, segue into new experiential modalities and still deeper discoveries. 
Hari Om Tat Sat |
Edited by - Govinda on Nov 23 2013 10:56:30 AM |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2013 : 11:08:34 AM
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Daniel Ingram's "Mastering The Core Teachings of the Buddha" attempts to resolve the various yoga systems and their descriptions of the stages one experiences into a cohesive whole. I found it very helpful in knowing that there were common experiences to those undertaking the practices. Ingram's personality and writing style may not be for everyone (it resonated with me quite well), but the information is helpful regardless.
http://integrateddaniel.info/book/
More helpful to me right now is the distinction between concentration, meditation and samadhi. Ingram breaks down each into their own sub-stages according to the various spiritual traditions. But knowing at the start that we are developing and building upon some basics is helpful.
I feel as if I am just now establishing either full concentration or perhaps even a bit of meditation. Meditation here being defined as prolonged, focused concentration. Ingram's book helped me wrap my head around things quite a bit, even if I don't fully understand. But one can look at the map of the entire journey, even if they still need to ask for directions along the way at times, right? :) |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2013 : 11:55:28 AM
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Thanks Yogaman for the book link...its 392 pages and free!
I just read the forward and his writing is so unpretentious and relaxed.
This paragraph in the forward got me especially interested:
"I also came to the profound realization that they have actually
worked all of this stuff out. Those darn Buddhists have come up with
very simple techniques that lead directly to remarkable results if you
follow instructions and get the dose high enough. While some people
don’t like this sort of cookbook approach to meditation, I am so grateful for their recipes that words fail to express my profound gratitude for the successes they have afforded me."
Reading this kind of stuff gets my bhakti going and helps me appreciate the AYP techniques all the more in the end.
Great stuff Yogaman...now to find that recipe the author likes best...
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2013 : 7:13:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BillinL.A.
Thanks Yogaman for the book link...its 392 pages and free!
I just read the forward and his writing is so unpretentious and relaxed.
This paragraph in the forward got me especially interested:
"I also came to the profound realization that they have actually
worked all of this stuff out. Those darn Buddhists have come up with
very simple techniques that lead directly to remarkable results if you
follow instructions and get the dose high enough. While some people
don’t like this sort of cookbook approach to meditation, I am so grateful for their recipes that words fail to express my profound gratitude for the successes they have afforded me."
Reading this kind of stuff gets my bhakti going and helps me appreciate the AYP techniques all the more in the end.
Great stuff Yogaman...now to find that recipe the author likes best...
Glad to help. You will love the rest of the book based on your enthusiasm for it so far. Enjoy! |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2013 : 10:10:01 PM
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| Pretty interesting thread Here discussing this. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2013 : 03:43:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoziz
Now I have another question - I find that repetition of a mantra is disturbing to the inner peace or quiet I feel when I meditate. Should I go back to the mantra anyway?
If you are following AYP methods - yes, you should go back to favouring the repetition of the mantra not the arising inner silence. We favour the inner silence when doing Samyama, not when doing DM.
Sey |
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snake
United Kingdom
280 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2013 : 12:17:33 PM
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If you like to swoon in the silence do your mantra practice as taught and use the 10 minutes after meditation to enjoy the silence.best of both world then  |
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Recognizing levels of meditation
