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 Posted - Jul 07 2005 : 6:05:41 PM
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622 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Apr 6, 2005 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Halasana - Need help jim_and_his_...
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If disability or inflexibility means that the only way you can enjoy the pranic effects of a
given posture are via props (e.g. catching your toes with a belt if you can't catch them with
your hand, resting your hand on a brick in triangle pose if you can't reach the floor, doing
shoulder stand on a chair if you can't hoist yourself on the floor), then props are great.
If you rely on them for whatever neurotic reason, then the neurotic reason is bad. But in no
case can a rope or a chair or a block be "bad".
And "real" hatha yoga has to do with how you handle your edge. It's 100% internal. And
whatever allows you to explore your edge more deeply is a good thing.
Yoga is an extraordinarily utilitarian thing. Whatever gets you there. If you stop to worry
about how it looks or if it's "right" or "wrong", you're missing the point. The purity is in the
internal result, not in the external trappings.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Just a by-the-way;
>
> There does sometimes seem to be a vague notion, aesthetic or
> mystique that props are bad, or not 'real yoga'. (I am not by any
> means suggesting that any of the respondents below are fostering
> it.) I think this notion is on the way out and I think we are better
> off for it.
>
> Blessings,
>
> -David
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge, use multiple
> blankets. Iyengar has disavowed
> > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much in the half
> century since the book came
> > out. And I think you may be understating his rationale for the
> blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden (one of the two top
> Iyengar yogis in US,
> > famed for being able to do every pose in Light on Yoga, does 100+
> dropbacks into urdva
> > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three blankets to two in
> her shoulderstand
> > practice, only because after decades of work she is finally able to
> elevate the cervical
> > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself creates an enormous
> tunnel in the spinal
> > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when he's in shoulder
> stand or halasana...so he
> > doesn't need blankets).
> >
> > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice) shoulderstand
> follows immediately after
> > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine how the blanket stack
> could be modified on
> > the fly.
> >
> > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what you think is right
> for you, plus Iyengar is
> > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with you, Victor! I
> think we can at least agree
> > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know that I'd have a
> much better neck today
> > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed kiwi fruit) if I
> hadn't done a few years of
> > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice. I wasnt' then (and
> still am not today,
> > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground through sheer
> physical control.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and not at all
> mentioned in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the shoulderstand. I
> would certainly fold up a
> > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in Halasana if for no
> other reason than to
> > prevent the occiput from taking too much pressure on the floor but
> I also see a trend
> > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets. Iyengar developed
> this blanket usage for
> > people with stiff necks and then decided that it would be safer for
> everyone. I still
> > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you need less in
> plough as the weigh is also
> > distributed through the feet rather than in a line directly over
> the neck.
> > > This use of the blankets should be folded flat and stacked with
> two or three blankets
> > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies off of the vblankets
> on the floor while the
> > arms and shoulders are supported by the blankets. One should
> experiment with how many
> > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your length of neck,
> size of blankets, stiffness
> > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or advanced with this, use
> what feels the most
> > comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift in the neck that I
> talked about.
> > >
> > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but to work from books.
> > >
> > > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF. Ping again if you
> need reccos.
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Victor,
> > > >
> > > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank you. I look forward to
> > > > making the adjustments for this morning's practice. Given that
> > > > explanation, I can see now how proper instruction is considered
> so
> > > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's not an option, but
> soon
> > > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay Area (CA) and will
> most
> > > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at that time. Until
> then, the
> > > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > > Greg M.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What you want is to roll the shoulders towards the the
> > > > shoulderblades so that the bodyweight is balanced as much as
> possible
> > > > on the shoulders and not on the neck. the feeling should be
> that the
> > > > neck is somewhat lifted from the floor by the roatation of the
> > > > shoulders. The sequence for hand placement in halasana is first
> to
> > > > hold the back as in shoulderstand. In some months as this
> becomes easy
> > > > then take the arms over the ehad on the floor towards the feet.
> Then
> > > > when this becomes easy one take the hands and arms in the
> opposite
> > > > direction from the feet but not interlocking. The final grasp
> of the
> > > > hands is the icing on the cake. It should go along with the
> lift of
> > > > the neck from the floor and the weight on the shoulders. There
> should
> > > > feel no pressure on the 7th cervical vertebrae and the neck
> should
> > > > retain as much of its natural curve as possible rather than
> being
> > > > flattened on the floor or lengthening. Do not try to lengthen
> the neck
> > > > but feel that the neck is light with minimal stretch to
> > > > > the back of the neck. stretch should be at the throat with
> the chin
> > > > untucking and soft as the chest moves towards the chin.
> > > > > Does that help?
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I thank you for your concern, but I consider myself to have a
> very
> > > > > good sense of bodily awareness developed through years of
> training in
> > > > > other disciplines. Given the nature of yoga, I find my level
> of
> > > > > consciousness heightened even more as I do the
> exercises. :) What
> > > > > then is the best way to increase the requisite flexibility
> in this
> > > > area?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg M
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't worry about the interlock, just keep the hands loose
> or hold
> > > > > tghe back with them at first. Halasana takes time and to try
> to push
> > > > > too far too fast will do more harm than good. Just take it
> slow and go
> > > > > with the breath and the feeling. This pose and shoulderstand
> should
> > > > > really be taught by a good teacher though rather than from a
> book as
> > > > > the neck is very delicate and you don't want to injure your
> neck.
> > > > > Trust me on that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just recently started doing Hatha yoga and am following
> the
> > > > > > beginner's regimen as outlined in BKS Iyengar's "Light on
> Yoga". The
> > > > > > second to final asana in the first two week course is called
> > > > > > Halasana (Pgs 216-220 if you have the book). I'm having
> trouble with
> > > > > > interlocking my hands and most especially with turning them
> over.
> > > > > > Does anyone have a tip or two that will help with this?
> I'm uncertain
> > > > > > if it's a matter of simple flexibility or if it's more the
> case of
> > > > > > muscle getting in the way. Any advice is welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank-you,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg M
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS I hope this is the right forum in which to post this.
> If not, I
> > > > > > apologize.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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624 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Apr 6, 2005 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Halasana - Need help vic
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I agree completely. I have however seen more people
who were neurotically attached to NOT using props than
to using them. Well, maybe that not entirely the case.
Maybe I would say that people do themselves more harm
by avoiding props than by being attached to using
them.
As for Plough and Shoulderstand, they can be easily
switched to each other "on the fly" from one to the
other without a necessary required sequence (unlike
headstand and shoulderstand). It is just my opinion
that if one were to do either plough OR shoulderstand
in practice (it is not a requirement to do both) that
plough carries less risk to the neck if the spine and
legs are flexible enough. Yoga practice can be a very
individual thing and aside from basic guidelines I
would encourage people to explore it rather than go by
rote.
--- jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>
> If disability or inflexibility means that the only
> way you can enjoy the pranic effects of a
> given posture are via props (e.g. catching your toes
> with a belt if you can't catch them with
> your hand, resting your hand on a brick in triangle
> pose if you can't reach the floor, doing
> shoulder stand on a chair if you can't hoist
> yourself on the floor), then props are great.
>
> If you rely on them for whatever neurotic reason,
> then the neurotic reason is bad. But in no
> case can a rope or a chair or a block be "bad".
>
> And "real" hatha yoga has to do with how you handle
> your edge. It's 100% internal. And
> whatever allows you to explore your edge more deeply
> is a good thing.
>
> Yoga is an extraordinarily utilitarian thing.
> Whatever gets you there. If you stop to worry
> about how it looks or if it's "right" or "wrong",
> you're missing the point. The purity is in the
> internal result, not in the external trappings.
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
> <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Just a by-the-way;
> >
> > There does sometimes seem to be a vague notion,
> aesthetic or
> > mystique that props are bad, or not 'real yoga'.
> (I am not by any
> > means suggesting that any of the respondents below
> are fostering
> > it.) I think this notion is on the way out and I
> think we are better
> > off for it.
> >
> > Blessings,
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com,
> "jim_and_his_karma"
> > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge,
> use multiple
> > blankets. Iyengar has disavowed
> > > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much
> in the half
> > century since the book came
> > > out. And I think you may be understating his
> rationale for the
> > blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden
> (one of the two top
> > Iyengar yogis in US,
> > > famed for being able to do every pose in Light
> on Yoga, does 100+
> > dropbacks into urdva
> > > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three
> blankets to two in
> > her shoulderstand
> > > practice, only because after decades of work she
> is finally able to
> > elevate the cervical
> > > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself
> creates an enormous
> > tunnel in the spinal
> > > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when
> he's in shoulder
> > stand or halasana...so he
> > > doesn't need blankets).
> > >
> > > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice)
> shoulderstand
> > follows immediately after
> > > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine
> how the blanket stack
> > could be modified on
> > > the fly.
> > >
> > > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what
> you think is right
> > for you, plus Iyengar is
> > > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with
> you, Victor! I
> > think we can at least agree
> > > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know
> that I'd have a
> > much better neck today
> > > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed
> kiwi fruit) if I
> > hadn't done a few years of
> > > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice.
> I wasnt' then (and
> > still am not today,
> > > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground
> through sheer
> > physical control.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
> <vic@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and
> not at all
> > mentioned in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the
> shoulderstand. I
> > would certainly fold up a
> > > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in
> Halasana if for no
> > other reason than to
> > > prevent the occiput from taking too much
> pressure on the floor but
> > I also see a trend
> > > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets.
> Iyengar developed
> > this blanket usage for
> > > people with stiff necks and then decided that it
> would be safer for
> > everyone. I still
> > > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you
> need less in
> > plough as the weigh is also
> > > distributed through the feet rather than in a
> line directly over
> > the neck.
> > > > This use of the blankets should be folded
> flat and stacked with
> > two or three blankets
> > > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies
> off of the vblankets
> > on the floor while the
> > > arms and shoulders are supported by the
> blankets. One should
> > experiment with how many
> > > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your
> length of neck,
> > size of blankets, stiffness
> > > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or
> advanced with this, use
> > what feels the most
> > > comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift
> in the neck that I
> > talked about.
> > > >
> > > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > > > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but
> to work from books.
> > > >
> > > > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF.
> Ping again if you
> > need reccos.
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Victor,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank
> you. I look forward to
> > > > > making the adjustments for this morning's
> practice. Given that
> > > > > explanation, I can see now how proper
> instruction is considered
> > so
> > > > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's
> not an option, but
> > soon
> > > > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay
> Area (CA) and will
> > most
> > > > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at
> that time. Until
> > then, the
> > > > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg M.
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
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626 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Apr 6, 2005 9:21pm
Subject: Re: Halasana - Need help jim_and_his_...
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Yeah. Just as an example: an open, radiant triangle pose, where you've fully rotated your
trunk fully frontward and your arms are straight and shoulders relaxed and spine forward,
is a beautiful thing. If it means propping your hand up on a block, great.
If you're "toughing it out" and jamming your hand onto the ground at the cost of full trunk
rotation or unconscious shoulders, you're really not getting the pose (in any sense of the
word "getting").
Yoga, unlike so much of what we work for in life, is not about accomplishment. You're not
trying to "succeed" at achieving the poses. It's not like all the other things we strive for in
life and try to "get good" at. It's a personal thing you do to open to yourself and to the
universe.
If someone is naturally flexible and can bend over and touch his palms to the floor, that
means ZERO, it gives that person ZERO. You can't get a job from that, you won't be loved,
you don't get a medal and you're no closer to enlightenment. People practicing yoga need
to bear that firmly in mind - that even if they succeed in what they think they're aiming for
(e.g. touching palms to floor), they will have gotten nowhere at all.
You're misunderstanding me on plough/shoulder stand, but no biggie! :)
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
>
> I agree completely. I have however seen more people
> who were neurotically attached to NOT using props than
> to using them. Well, maybe that not entirely the case.
> Maybe I would say that people do themselves more harm
> by avoiding props than by being attached to using
> them.
> As for Plough and Shoulderstand, they can be easily
> switched to each other "on the fly" from one to the
> other without a necessary required sequence (unlike
> headstand and shoulderstand). It is just my opinion
> that if one were to do either plough OR shoulderstand
> in practice (it is not a requirement to do both) that
> plough carries less risk to the neck if the spine and
> legs are flexible enough. Yoga practice can be a very
> individual thing and aside from basic guidelines I
> would encourage people to explore it rather than go by
> rote.
>
>
>
> --- jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > If disability or inflexibility means that the only
> > way you can enjoy the pranic effects of a
> > given posture are via props (e.g. catching your toes
> > with a belt if you can't catch them with
> > your hand, resting your hand on a brick in triangle
> > pose if you can't reach the floor, doing
> > shoulder stand on a chair if you can't hoist
> > yourself on the floor), then props are great.
> >
> > If you rely on them for whatever neurotic reason,
> > then the neurotic reason is bad. But in no
> > case can a rope or a chair or a block be "bad".
> >
> > And "real" hatha yoga has to do with how you handle
> > your edge. It's 100% internal. And
> > whatever allows you to explore your edge more deeply
> > is a good thing.
> >
> > Yoga is an extraordinarily utilitarian thing.
> > Whatever gets you there. If you stop to worry
> > about how it looks or if it's "right" or "wrong",
> > you're missing the point. The purity is in the
> > internal result, not in the external trappings.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999"
> > <obsidian9999@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Just a by-the-way;
> > >
> > > There does sometimes seem to be a vague notion,
> > aesthetic or
> > > mystique that props are bad, or not 'real yoga'.
> > (I am not by any
> > > means suggesting that any of the respondents below
> > are fostering
> > > it.) I think this notion is on the way out and I
> > think we are better
> > > off for it.
> > >
> > > Blessings,
> > >
> > > -David
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com,
> > "jim_and_his_karma"
> > > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge,
> > use multiple
> > > blankets. Iyengar has disavowed
> > > > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much
> > in the half
> > > century since the book came
> > > > out. And I think you may be understating his
> > rationale for the
> > > blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > > > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden
> > (one of the two top
> > > Iyengar yogis in US,
> > > > famed for being able to do every pose in Light
> > on Yoga, does 100+
> > > dropbacks into urdva
> > > > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three
> > blankets to two in
> > > her shoulderstand
> > > > practice, only because after decades of work she
> > is finally able to
> > > elevate the cervical
> > > > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself
> > creates an enormous
> > > tunnel in the spinal
> > > > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when
> > he's in shoulder
> > > stand or halasana...so he
> > > > doesn't need blankets).
> > > >
> > > > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice)
> > shoulderstand
> > > follows immediately after
> > > > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine
> > how the blanket stack
> > > could be modified on
> > > > the fly.
> > > >
> > > > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what
> > you think is right
> > > for you, plus Iyengar is
> > > > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with
> > you, Victor! I
> > > think we can at least agree
> > > > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know
> > that I'd have a
> > > much better neck today
> > > > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed
> > kiwi fruit) if I
> > > hadn't done a few years of
> > > > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice.
> > I wasnt' then (and
> > > still am not today,
> > > > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground
> > through sheer
> > > physical control.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj
> > <vic@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and
> > not at all
> > > mentioned in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > > > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the
> > shoulderstand. I
> > > would certainly fold up a
> > > > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in
> > Halasana if for no
> > > other reason than to
> > > > prevent the occiput from taking too much
> > pressure on the floor but
> > > I also see a trend
> > > > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets.
> > Iyengar developed
> > > this blanket usage for
> > > > people with stiff necks and then decided that it
> > would be safer for
> > > everyone. I still
> > > > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you
> > need less in
> > > plough as the weigh is also
> > > > distributed through the feet rather than in a
> > line directly over
> > > the neck.
> > > > > This use of the blankets should be folded
> > flat and stacked with
> > > two or three blankets
> > > > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies
> > off of the vblankets
> > > on the floor while the
> > > > arms and shoulders are supported by the
> > blankets. One should
> > > experiment with how many
> > > > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your
> > length of neck,
> > > size of blankets, stiffness
> > > > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or
> > advanced with this, use
> > > what feels the most
> > > > comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift
> > in the neck that I
> > > talked about.
> > > > >
> > > > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
> > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > > > > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but
> > to work from books.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF.
> > Ping again if you
> > > need reccos.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg"
> > <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Victor,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank
> > you. I look forward to
> > > > > > making the adjustments for this morning's
> > practice. Given that
> > > > > > explanation, I can see now how proper
> > instruction is considered
> > > so
> > > > > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's
> > not an option, but
> > > soon
> > > > > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay
> > Area (CA) and will
> > > most
> > > > > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at
> > that time. Until
> > > then, the
> > > > > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg M.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger
> Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
> http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo...emoticontest
625 From: "Greg" <trian3@charter.net>
Date: Wed Apr 6, 2005 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Halasana - Need help trian3
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Very interesting. I thought I was pretty safe doing these shoulder
stands due to my slim but relatively muscular physique. But in light
of what you've written here, I'll certainly have to reconsider that.
Tell me... I haven't had much experience w/ spinal anatomy. How
exactly do I find C5/C6? Is C6 the one that juts out the most at the
base of the neck before it starts curving back?
Thanks,
Greg M.
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
<jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
>
>
> But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge, use multiple blankets.
Iyengar has disavowed
> many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much in the half century
since the book came
> out. And I think you may be understating his rationale for the
blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden (one of the two top
Iyengar yogis in US,
> famed for being able to do every pose in Light on Yoga, does 100+
dropbacks into urdva
> dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three blankets to two in
her shoulderstand
> practice, only because after decades of work she is finally able to
elevate the cervical
> vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself creates an enormous
tunnel in the spinal
> cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when he's in shoulder
stand or halasana...so he
> doesn't need blankets).
>
> And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice) shoulderstand
follows immediately after
> halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine how the blanket stack
could be modified on
> the fly.
>
> That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what you think is right
for you, plus Iyengar is
> just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with you, Victor! I
think we can at least agree
> that blankets are a good path of caution. I know that I'd have a
much better neck today
> (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed kiwi fruit) if I
hadn't done a few years of
> blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice. I wasnt' then (and
still am not today,
> decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground through sheer
physical control.
>
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> >
> > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and not at all mentioned
in "Light On Yoga") I do
> not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the shoulderstand. I
would certainly fold up a
> blanket or two to put under the shoulders in Halasana if for no
other reason than to
> prevent the occiput from taking too much pressure on the floor but I
also see a trend
> towards too much reliance on lots of blankets. Iyengar developed
this blanket usage for
> people with stiff necks and then decided that it would be safer for
everyone. I still
> recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you need less in plough
as the weigh is also
> distributed through the feet rather than in a line directly over the
neck.
> > This use of the blankets should be folded flat and stacked with
two or three blankets
> stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies off of the vblankets
on the floor while the
> arms and shoulders are supported by the blankets. One should
experiment with how many
> blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your length of neck, size
of blankets, stiffness
> etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or advanced with this, use
what feels the most
> comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift in the neck that I
talked about.
> >
> > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but to work from books.
> >
> > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF. Ping again if you
need reccos.
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Victor,
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank you. I look forward to
> > > making the adjustments for this morning's practice. Given that
> > > explanation, I can see now how proper instruction is considered so
> > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's not an option, but soon
> > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay Area (CA) and will most
> > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at that time. Until
then, the
> > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Greg M.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > What you want is to roll the shoulders towards the the
> > > shoulderblades so that the bodyweight is balanced as much as
possible
> > > on the shoulders and not on the neck. the feeling should be that the
> > > neck is somewhat lifted from the floor by the roatation of the
> > > shoulders. The sequence for hand placement in halasana is first to
> > > hold the back as in shoulderstand. In some months as this
becomes easy
> > > then take the arms over the ehad on the floor towards the feet. Then
> > > when this becomes easy one take the hands and arms in the opposite
> > > direction from the feet but not interlocking. The final grasp of the
> > > hands is the icing on the cake. It should go along with the lift of
> > > the neck from the floor and the weight on the shoulders. There
should
> > > feel no pressure on the 7th cervical vertebrae and the neck should
> > > retain as much of its natural curve as possible rather than being
> > > flattened on the floor or lengthening. Do not try to lengthen
the neck
> > > but feel that the neck is light with minimal stretch to
> > > > the back of the neck. stretch should be at the throat with
the chin
> > > untucking and soft as the chest moves towards the chin.
> > > > Does that help?
> > > >
> > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I thank you for your concern, but I consider myself to have a very
> > > > good sense of bodily awareness developed through years of
training in
> > > > other disciplines. Given the nature of yoga, I find my level of
> > > > consciousness heightened even more as I do the exercises. :)
What
> > > > then is the best way to increase the requisite flexibility in
this
> > > area?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > > Greg M
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't worry about the interlock, just keep the hands loose
or hold
> > > > tghe back with them at first. Halasana takes time and to try
to push
> > > > too far too fast will do more harm than good. Just take it
slow and go
> > > > with the breath and the feeling. This pose and shoulderstand
should
> > > > really be taught by a good teacher though rather than from a
book as
> > > > the neck is very delicate and you don't want to injure your neck.
> > > > Trust me on that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > I just recently started doing Hatha yoga and am following the
> > > > > beginner's regimen as outlined in BKS Iyengar's "Light on
Yoga". The
> > > > > second to final asana in the first two week course is called
> > > > > Halasana (Pgs 216-220 if you have the book). I'm having
trouble with
> > > > > interlocking my hands and most especially with turning them
over.
> > > > > Does anyone have a tip or two that will help with this? I'm
uncertain
> > > > > if it's a matter of simple flexibility or if it's more the
case of
> > > > > muscle getting in the way. Any advice is welcome.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank-you,
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg M
> > > > >
> > > > > PS I hope this is the right forum in which to post this.
If not, I
> > > > > apologize.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
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627 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Apr 6, 2005 11:18pm
Subject: Re: Halasana - Need help jim_and_his_...
Offline
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There are better people than me to answer this (victor, probably, for that matter). I'm not
real schooled in anatomy, just well trained in yoga. But let me take a stab, and others can
correct.
The vertebara which gets crunched in shoulder stand (and, less, halasana) is the one right
at the base of where neck joins shoulders. It's easy to confirm...do a shoulder stand, and
notice what's sitting on the floor bearing all your weight. That's the one. Poor little guy.
Try doing shoulder stand on smooth, carefully folded blankets (no lumps!). A rise of as
much as like 4 inches is fine. Make sure that the rounded part of the fold is the part facing
your neck, and let your neck extend a couple inches past this (i.e. the edge of the blankets
shouldn't actually touch your neck). Shoulders and arms on the blankets. You'll see that
this vertebra is now free and clear and bearing no load.
Try an experiment. Next person you meet who practices yoga, ask if they use blankets in
shoulderstand. If the answer is "no", ask to touch this vertebra. It will almost certainly be
swollen. It's an intrinsic problem with yoga. Note, though, that some smart people (as
experienced as I am) believe the dangers are overblown. But why take the chance?
Work hard to move all your weight up, up, up. Aim to walk on the ceiling. And don't let
your elbows splay out. I use a belt to keep them narrow and parallel. And don't let the
weight of trunk and legs fall on your neck. It's shoulder stand, not neck stand. Keeping the
body quite straight, slowly move your feet in the opposite direction of your head until the
weight is truly on your shoulders. It may seem hard to sustain, but you'll get used to it!
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <trian3@c...> wrote:
>
>
> Very interesting. I thought I was pretty safe doing these shoulder
> stands due to my slim but relatively muscular physique. But in light
> of what you've written here, I'll certainly have to reconsider that.
> Tell me... I haven't had much experience w/ spinal anatomy. How
> exactly do I find C5/C6? Is C6 the one that juts out the most at the
> base of the neck before it starts curving back?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg M.
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma"
> <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > But all the senior teachers, to my knowledge, use multiple blankets.
> Iyengar has disavowed
> > many things in LIght on Yoga...he's learned much in the half century
> since the book came
> > out. And I think you may be understating his rationale for the
> blankets. It wasn't an "oh,
> > what the hell" thing. Consider: Patricia Walden (one of the two top
> Iyengar yogis in US,
> > famed for being able to do every pose in Light on Yoga, does 100+
> dropbacks into urdva
> > dhanurasana, etc) has recently gone from three blankets to two in
> her shoulderstand
> > practice, only because after decades of work she is finally able to
> elevate the cervical
> > vertebra on her own...a little (Iyengar himself creates an enormous
> tunnel in the spinal
> > cavity - you can plunge your fist in easily when he's in shoulder
> stand or halasana...so he
> > doesn't need blankets).
> >
> > And since (at least in strict Iyengar practice) shoulderstand
> follows immediately after
> > halasana, without pause, it's hard to imagine how the blanket stack
> could be modified on
> > the fly.
> >
> > That said, the whole point of yoga is to do what you think is right
> for you, plus Iyengar is
> > just one system, anyway, so I'm not arguing with you, Victor! I
> think we can at least agree
> > that blankets are a good path of caution. I know that I'd have a
> much better neck today
> > (and a vertebra less reminscent of a squashed kiwi fruit) if I
> hadn't done a few years of
> > blanketless shoulderstand and halasana practice. I wasnt' then (and
> still am not today,
> > decades later) able to get c6/c7 off the ground through sheer
> physical control.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > While the blankets are certainly helpful (and not at all mentioned
> in "Light On Yoga") I do
> > not find them as necessary in Halasana as in the shoulderstand. I
> would certainly fold up a
> > blanket or two to put under the shoulders in Halasana if for no
> other reason than to
> > prevent the occiput from taking too much pressure on the floor but I
> also see a trend
> > towards too much reliance on lots of blankets. Iyengar developed
> this blanket usage for
> > people with stiff necks and then decided that it would be safer for
> everyone. I still
> > recommend it especially in shoulderstand but you need less in plough
> as the weigh is also
> > distributed through the feet rather than in a line directly over the
> neck.
> > > This use of the blankets should be folded flat and stacked with
> two or three blankets
> > stacked and placed on the floor. the head lies off of the vblankets
> on the floor while the
> > arms and shoulders are supported by the blankets. One should
> experiment with how many
> > blankets rtanging from 1 to 4 depending on your length of neck, size
> of blankets, stiffness
> > etc. Don't worry about beineg beginner or advanced with this, use
> what feels the most
> > comfortable, supportive and encourages the lift in the neck that I
> talked about.
> > >
> > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg, I'd very strongly recommend this book:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/
> > > detail/-/0679722874 if you have no choice but to work from books.
> > >
> > > There are great Iyengar school teachers in SF. Ping again if you
> need reccos.
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Victor,
> > > >
> > > > Yes, indeed. It helps very much. Thank you. I look forward to
> > > > making the adjustments for this morning's practice. Given that
> > > > explanation, I can see now how proper instruction is considered so
> > > > necessary. Right now, where I live, that's not an option, but soon
> > > > (hopefully) I'll be moving down to the Bay Area (CA) and will most
> > > > assuredly be getting proper instruction at that time. Until
> then, the
> > > > book and this forum are my only resources.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > > Greg M.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What you want is to roll the shoulders towards the the
> > > > shoulderblades so that the bodyweight is balanced as much as
> possible
> > > > on the shoulders and not on the neck. the feeling should be that the
> > > > neck is somewhat lifted from the floor by the roatation of the
> > > > shoulders. The sequence for hand placement in halasana is first to
> > > > hold the back as in shoulderstand. In some months as this
> becomes easy
> > > > then take the arms over the ehad on the floor towards the feet. Then
> > > > when this becomes easy one take the hands and arms in the opposite
> > > > direction from the feet but not interlocking. The final grasp of the
> > > > hands is the icing on the cake. It should go along with the lift of
> > > > the neck from the floor and the weight on the shoulders. There
> should
> > > > feel no pressure on the 7th cervical vertebrae and the neck should
> > > > retain as much of its natural curve as possible rather than being
> > > > flattened on the floor or lengthening. Do not try to lengthen
> the neck
> > > > but feel that the neck is light with minimal stretch to
> > > > > the back of the neck. stretch should be at the throat with
> the chin
> > > > untucking and soft as the chest moves towards the chin.
> > > > > Does that help?
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I thank you for your concern, but I consider myself to have a very
> > > > > good sense of bodily awareness developed through years of
> training in
> > > > > other disciplines. Given the nature of yoga, I find my level of
> > > > > consciousness heightened even more as I do the exercises. :)
> What
> > > > > then is the best way to increase the requisite flexibility in
> this
> > > > area?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > >
> > > > > Greg M
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't worry about the interlock, just keep the hands loose
> or hold
> > > > > tghe back with them at first. Halasana takes time and to try
> to push
> > > > > too far too fast will do more harm than good. Just take it
> slow and go
> > > > > with the breath and the feeling. This pose and shoulderstand
> should
> > > > > really be taught by a good teacher though rather than from a
> book as
> > > > > the neck is very delicate and you don't want to injure your neck.
> > > > > Trust me on that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg <trian3@c...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just recently started doing Hatha yoga and am following the
> > > > > > beginner's regimen as outlined in BKS Iyengar's "Light on
> Yoga". The
> > > > > > second to final asana in the first two week course is called
> > > > > > Halasana (Pgs 216-220 if you have the book). I'm having
> trouble with
> > > > > > interlocking my hands and most especially with turning them
> over.
> > > > > > Does anyone have a tip or two that will help with this? I'm
> uncertain
> > > > > > if it's a matter of simple flexibility or if it's more the
> case of
> > > > > > muscle getting in the way. Any advice is welcome.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank-you,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Greg M
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS I hope this is the right forum in which to post this.
> If not, I
> > > > > > apologize.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to:
> > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices --
> > > > > > To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank
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> > > > > > You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on
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> > > > > home page.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > |
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Re: Halasana - Need help #2
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