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kembolini
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 02 2013 : 3:41:21 PM
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Consider this:-
Do we agree that Yoga is ultimately a methodological approach to generate, by human action, spiritual awareness.
However, can spiritual awareness occur as a result of human action or is it only by the grace of God?
If by the grace of God then all that striving results in no spiritual effect unless by the grace of God.
If not by the grace of God then - the questions change to - Is there a God? Do we determine our own spiritual experiences?
The striving that I have witnessed is laudable but concerning particularly when I consider the physical and mental impact that some go through.
Is it better to trust in God to provide that spiritual awareness at a time of God's choosing? Is not trust an aspect of Love?
"Only by love can men see me, and know me and come unto me." Bhagavad Gita
“Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”
Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40)
If it is only by love that God can be found then the does that mean that the methodological process that Yoga adopts is, some may say, man playing at being God.
Is it better to accept Yoga's methodological approach as one of preparation rather than self initiation.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 02:23:55 AM
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Dear Kembolini,
Consider this:
I have personally introduced AYP to some 100 persons through lectures and classes. Of that 100 so persons only ONE has really taken to AYP. Is that not the grace of God? Out of millions few are truly called to Yoga.
Sey
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kembolini
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 02:48:08 AM
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Dear Sey
I take your point.
In response I would say many actions are undertaken for noble reasons but spiritual awareness, in it's fullest sense, is another matter as suggested in the first post.
kembolini |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 03:14:11 AM
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Indeed. I believe by the grace of God one is called and pointed to the path that is best for one - not necessarily Yoga - but whichever path, surrendering to That is key. Hence, it is not a "striving" we do here but a surrendering...we learn the art of surrendering.
Sey |
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kembolini
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2013 : 09:57:34 AM
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I agree but my point is that the awakening, no matter what is done or not done is by the grace of God.
Yoga and particularly those practices aimed at awakening seem almost to have the condition of man interfering with the natural flow.
Consider a flower in bud which, when the sun shines, comes into bloom and when the sun is gone the flower closes back up until the sun shines again.
Like a flower we can only wait until the sun comes for a pure bloom. Of course artificial lighting can be used but that is not natural.
Of course we could say that the practices undertaken are like a gardener tending his plants but there comes a point when the sun must be allowed to do its work.
kembolini |
Edited by - kembolini on Sep 03 2013 10:15:20 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Sep 04 2013 : 03:20:33 AM
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It is also said - "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." Mathew 7:7
So I would say when anyone starts Yoga, they are seeking, they are knocking on heaven's door - so of course, it opens...by the grace of God. 
Sey
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Wafu
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - Sep 05 2013 : 07:37:20 AM
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Hi Kembolini,
quote:
However, can spiritual awareness occur as a result of human action or is it only by the grace of God?
I would say that God's grace naturally unfolds through human action. Grace and human action begin to reconcile as yoga works in the body, creating a pure vessel allowing for a fuller and clearer expression of grace. In time the body/mind reach a state where spiritual awareness becomes possible. It is both grace and action that lead to this point.
This rarely occurs "out of the blue", as it were. A little (or a lot) of action is usually necessary to help things along. But we will only act in this way for long enough if we are inspired to do so (by grace). So it's really grace that gets us there all along.
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kembolini
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - Sep 05 2013 : 3:45:03 PM
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"I would say that God's grace naturally unfolds through human action."
This response illustrates the point I raised. In my view human action cannot influence God. God is indifferent. God's grace is equivalent to God's will.
"Grace and human action begin to reconcile as yoga works in the body, creating a pure vessel allowing for a fuller and clearer expression of grace."
I am not sure what you mean by Grace in the above sentence. I will take it to mean the God within/soul/holy spirit etc. (correct me if I am wrong). There is a misconception, in my view, that the body and the soul are separate. This perceived separateness is the cause of significant angst, to say the least. You, me and everyone else are the expression of their entire being. This expression includes all the suffering, pain, joy and bliss. The eternal part of you learns
from all experiences.
"In time the body/mind reach a state where spiritual awareness becomes possible."
Agreed to a point. In time body/mind/soul reach a point... where you know all that needs to be known. Including the awareness and understanding of the sense of union as opposed to the belief of disunion.
"It is both grace and action that lead to this point."
Cliché I know but what God wills so it will be.
"So it's really grace that gets us there all along."
Agreed if we agree that by grace we mean God.
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Edited by - kembolini on Sep 05 2013 4:23:41 PM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2013 : 6:59:31 PM
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| it is only by grace that what we are doing could be done. without prana charging you up, activating higher centers none of this would happen. we would still be stuck in the pelvis, waiting thousands of years for the sun to create the perfect atmosphere. |
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The Kundalini Process
