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Torrentula81
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 21 2013 : 4:14:51 PM
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Having a hard time where to post this. Mods feel free to move it. Here is some ideas I wrote down. Want to know if there is any major flaws in my way of thinking. Not looking to debate whether am I am right or wrong necessarily. Maybe by sharing this someone posts something that they have learned I might find useful related to this type of thought.
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We remember the past and link those memories together to form who we are. We are created in our minds. Our identity isn't a naturally occurring substance. If someone had a stroke and lost all memory they would be a completely new person. We don't own our spirit, we never did. We were created and kinda latched on. So the question becomes if our identity does continue after death should it?
Who am I? What is life? The answers to those questions is like a reflection on the water. It exists in context but not on its own right. Man made concepts like me, that, him, space, and time is an interpretation of our surroundings. We need to understand how things relate to us and each-other to help us survive. This is how we form our own reality that only exists because we say it does. It looks like what we say it looks like. The answers we find only consists of what we're capable to see and experience Limited by the human mind and body.
Observation to evaluations
Quantifications and definitions
Surviving and understanding
Something is born from nothing |
Edited by - AYPforum on Aug 21 2013 4:22:32 PM |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2013 : 4:22:32 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2013 : 4:41:21 PM
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Hi Torrentula,
The questions you are raising are Self-Inquiry and relate to advaita.
You're exploring some deep questions here, some of your thinking on this subject is very lucid.
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We remember the past and link those memories together to form who we are. We are created in our minds. Our identity isn't a naturally occurring substance.
This is certainly an insightful observation, it's true, and allowing the false identity, the separate self, to dissolve is a core element of any enlightenment-based system of spiritual practice. Enlightenment is what's absolutely True, when you've freed your mind of its beliefs, the stored energy patterns & blockages in the body created by those beliefs, and become liberated from the mind-made sense of being a separate self in a world of separate objects.
Enlightenment is a subtraction, it's not something you gain or attain, it's the natural state, when the body-mind has had its stored ignorance on a mental, energetic and emotional level removed.
Here's a question for you: What is absolutely, undeniably true, right now? Is there anything you can say that is impossible to doubt or contradict? Be extremely doubtful, the world's biggest skeptic about everything, and let me know if you can say something about the moment you are experiencing, right now, that would be impossible to doubt or contradict. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Aug 21 2013 10:29:41 PM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2013 : 8:38:02 PM
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quote:
We remember the past and link those memories together to form who we are.
If everything is a form of energy, and if this energy can be regarded as information, then its perception demands there to be a perceiver who interprets it. The mind arises as part of this interpretation. It isn't just the conscious mind and the cognitive faculties, but its entire spectrum going deep in the unconscious and to wherever it roots (the koshas or sheaths) that contributes to and continuously upholds the sense of identity as a separate person in an environment. I don't claim to truly know this, but it makes sense as taught by those who are self-realized. Knowing this in a way that transcends forgetfulness, such as amnesia-memory loss, and physical death, I think is different than entraining the thoughts "we are created in our minds" (self-inquiry), because then it is no longer a practice, but a self-evident reality.
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If someone had a stroke and lost all memory they would be a completely new person.
Case examples I believe does not support this assumption. On the opposite end, other conditions regarded as disorders do occur where the person undergoes a complete and sudden personality change for whatever period of time. There are also examples of mediumship, near death experiences, and related observations (not all of which are accepted at wide, at least not yet) that confound the relationship between identity and the physical body.
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We don't own our spirit, we never did.
Ownership is a socially-constructed symbol in order to interpret a function, an interaction or exchange. The spirit is a part of the natural world to which nothing can be said to be exempt. Whatever transcends it therefore is responsible for its creation, maintenance, and dissolution, as described by classic texts and upheld in the living experience of rishis.
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We were created and kinda latched on.
However we were created must have also created that to which you say we latched on to.
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So the question becomes if our identity does continue after death should it?
Whether something should or should not I also regard as a symbol or concept that gains meaning only within a chosen value or belief system.
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Man made concepts like me, that, him, space, and time is an interpretation of our surroundings.
The surrounding is also instrumental in providing the means to which the interpretation becomes possible in the way that it does. So I think it goes both ways, at least initially. An interpretation is necessary in order to organize and understand the vast amounts of information available to the senses and its encoding all the way through the nervous system.
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We need to understand how things relate to us and each-other to help us survive.
The dynamism, as found in naturally-emerging patterns and evolution I think takes place all on its own, as intelligence immanent in everything.
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It looks like what we say it looks like.
If in terms of perception, that which is perceived is ordered and translated in whatever way possible by the nervous system so that it gains meaning at the level where we can say we consciously perceive it. The qualia of sensory experience simply is the way it is, undoubtedly as part of a universal pattern always in harmony and complete, like a hologram displaying the whole from any isolated part.
I'm not entirely sure I grasp the whole of the propositions as they fit together, so I contributed to the parts with whatever came to mind, so it may be a bit out of context to the intended meaning. |
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arti
Christmas Island
18 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2013 : 9:26:31 PM
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| All is in ALL All is ALL :) How do you jump out from infinity? lol false, fake, ego, truth, guru, sinner, student, god, carrot, food all is in infinite. Who I am, how many squares triangle have? Or who is asking? :D |
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Nietziello
Netherlands
7 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2013 : 03:02:26 AM
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I would like to add something here to your observation about the stroke. I once read an article about a man who went missing out of the blue.
It turned out that this man if I am correct just assumed a complete new identity out of nowhere without any explanation. It was not that the man had any debts or reasons for leaving. He just assumed a new identity out of nowhere. When they confronted the man about this he had no idea who this person was he was supposed to be. He did not recognize any of his friends or family either.
Now this man assumed the identity of a Swedish man and the fun fact here is that he spoke Swedish fluently without his family and friends having any idea how he had mastery over the language.
I do not know if anyone remembers this story, it was on the news here a while ago and it was said that this occurance was very rare. I found it to be quite interesting.
I will try to find the article so you can read it yourselves.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2013 : 7:50:41 PM
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How do we know we are the same individual as we were yesterday? We believe we are because we have a string of memories reaching into the past. But what if these memories belong to our body, not our point of perception, and that is all we are?
If our perception moved into a new body tomorrow, and that body contained all memories, emotions, abilities from the past, we would connect to it the same as we do our present body, and believe we have always been that person, because all we are is a point of perception! Then everyone would be truly equal. |
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Any flaws to this logic? Anything to share?
