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Dogboy
USA
2293 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 04 2019 : 2:25:36 PM
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PMB: sorry for your troubles. Stop all spiritual practices, eat a heavier diet, and learn to ground yourself:
https://www.aypsite.com/plus/69.html |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2019 : 11:34:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stille
We are very fortunate that there are many traditions and clear written records containing very precise instructions for us to follow.  
We are indeed.
I too think that Christianity has lost its practices. See Gnostic Gospel of Thomas (13). It suggests Jesus was giving his disciples practices when they were ready for them. They were supposed to keep them secret i.e. not even share them with other disciples.
So Christians are left with a very inspiring Ishta, but sadly no practices. As we know, bhakti is rarely enough for spiritual progress, unless it drives you to seek an effective practice. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2019 : 12:00:29 AM
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Guys - you are very, very wrong. Christians may appear to have to no fancy practices like yoga ones but they do just fine. I come from a catholic family, that did not work for me so I turned to AYP. My sisters remain strong in their faith and community. They know nothing of non-dual reality and all the fancy talk but they are 10x the person I am!!! Their service to others, the goodness of their hearts put me to shame.
So please....
Sey  |
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Stille
Germany
76 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2019 : 04:45:13 AM
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If we assume that serious Christians, who do have a really strong faith, engage in loads of karma yoga - the question remains: is that enough to realise truth/god/cosmic conciousness in an experiential way? (in a reasonable period of time; e.g. this lifetime).
All the yogic practises are aimed at expanding the perception of the practitioner by chipping away at our egoistic identifications gradually. This makes us ready to slowly understand the bigger picture. We strive to give up all identificatons to see clearly. Isn't it so?
If that aspect is missing you can still be a very goodhearted person but will that be enough to realise truth within? I don't know. Simply because it is possible to remain attached to egoistic desires and to be a good person at the same time. This doesn't mean that modern Christianity is an invalid path of self realisation. But is it an efficient path? If you are a christian monk, praying with deep fervor/bhakti half a day and be of service the other half I imagine that this will eventually awaken the holy spirit/kundalini. But even then the journey seems to be rather hard without additional practises to smooth it out. Maybe pure bhakti and karma yoga is enough for some but I doubt that it is sufficient for the many. Especially since the many are living in the world with worldly duties.
Just some thoughts. |
Edited by - Stille on Nov 06 2019 05:14:11 AM |
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Dogboy
USA
2293 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2019 : 1:28:01 PM
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I too was raised Catholic, and was always attracted to the mysteries and miracles of the man Jesus, whether they were real or not. The rest of the Catholic doctrine and recent actions and inactions of the church is what led me to find my temple within, so there is that.
Fasting and prayer (samyama of sorts) can be considered crossover yogic practices IMO. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2019 : 12:59:19 PM
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Sey, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Christians can't progress spiritually. Some people are born with the ability to abide in stillness and they cultivate it naturally throughout their lives.
What I am saying is that I have found clues in gnostic gospels that there were practices given on an individual basis.
There are exceptions. I have heard of monks who practice some form of mantra meditation, using a line from a Christian prayer (very different from AYP's mantra meditation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm I even heard of a practice involving the breath, used by the same monks.
But I also know many church goers (in the Orthodox tradition, as it happens) who spend a lot of time doing pilgrimages to holy places. They wear religious artefacts like magic objects, believing they have protective powers. I see no change in these people over time. I know them personally. They seem to me to be the same, year after year. Sometimes they grow righteous. Maybe I have a blind spot. I hope I am wrong. I hope they do get something out of their practice. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Nov 08 2019 1:08:19 PM |
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HonestlyTrying
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2021 : 12:49:50 AM
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I wonder...
Jesus helps me with everything! He brings me everything... I was told in my early 20's after begging Jesus for help (to which He answered by entering my heart, which I've come to call Jesus energy) to love the Lord with all my heart, soul, strength, and mind. So I did that... until I loved Him more than I loved myself. The more I loved Him, the more He did for me... so it was easy to love Him more and more until I loved Him more than I loved myself. I just loved Him by saying the words and feeling love for Him. No works - just love. He taught me things from my heart, from physically inside my heart - call it the Holy Ghost, call it what you will.
I began asking questions of Him, and when I asked with all sincerity I got answers. Eventually I got enough answers to understand kind of how things work, better than most probably. So I'm pretty sure it all starts with Jesus. He is the way, like He said.  Everything else is colored bubbles, but I know that the serpent energy IS actually a serpent! It isn't called the Serpent Energy because it coils around the spine 3.5 times. I believe that is the myth ... because I KNOW it is a dragon (has a crinkled face, long snout, and all). |
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Gabereal
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2021 : 3:36:51 PM
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| God takes whatever form you approach him as . Whether it be Jesus or Krishna . Christians have a harder time swallowing this Bc of insecurities relating to the after life . Goto any A.a meeting , god works miracles in those people lives. He expresses him self as the god of their unique understanding . Sure some Christians might have awakenings for whatever reason. They’re likely to rationalize it within the context of Christianity . Baptism of Holy Spirit perhaps . I think true awakening of kundalini is a lot less common for a Christian as they tend to see yoga as something demonic |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2021 : 5:17:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestlyTrying
I wonder...
Jesus helps me with everything! He brings me everything... I was told in my early 20's after begging Jesus for help (to which He answered by entering my heart, which I've come to call Jesus energy) to love the Lord with all my heart, soul, strength, and mind. So I did that... until I loved Him more than I loved myself. The more I loved Him, the more He did for me... so it was easy to love Him more and more until I loved Him more than I loved myself. I just loved Him by saying the words and feeling love for Him. No works - just love. He taught me things from my heart, from physically inside my heart - call it the Holy Ghost, call it what you will.
It seems a beautiful path, HonestlyTrying. It works for you and that's all that matters.
I would say that Gabereal has a point. I have heard people, religious people, talking critically about yoga and kundalini without having any experience of either.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestlyTrying
the serpent energy IS actually a serpent! It isn't called the Serpent Energy because it coils around the spine 3.5 times. I believe that is the myth ... because I KNOW it is a dragon (has a crinkled face, long snout, and all)
I found this assertion amusing
The "Serpent" is a metaphor. Nothing to stop you picturing it with a snout if you like, but it's energy.
The Christian equivalent of Kundalini is the Holy Spirit. Once you experience Kundalini, you realise this.
God the Father is what we call Inner Silence in AYP. When the Energy and the Silence merge, the journey of enlightenment begins.
So we are talking about the same reality, just different ways to describe it.
There are many paths up the mountain, the destination is the same. We find the path that works for each of us. |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Mar 13 2021 5:31:31 PM |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2021 : 08:18:38 AM
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| The description of Kundalini as a serpent can be understood as a metaphor, but it is also a precise description of this energy. As the inner vision clarifies, Kundalini appears as a serpent. Everything is a myth before it happens to you! Take all the teachings as pointers, and check everything through your practice. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2021 : 04:45:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
As the inner vision clarifies, Kundalini appears as a serpent.
And does it have a crinkled face?   |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2021 : 07:35:41 AM
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Maybe. Not sure if it follows a beauty program  but it does not look like a chicken, or a bicycle, or a dragon. It looks like a snake. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4512 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2021 : 9:52:03 PM
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Hi all,
quote:
The "Serpent" is a metaphor.
My experience of this is that the perception of kundalini energy can change over time. It may start out simply being perceived as heat or electricity in the body. It may be experienced as powerful emotions or a longing for something more than the mundane. When inner perception awakens, it could be perceived as a snake, or as a column of energy or pure light, going right up through the centre of the body. It could be experienced as ecstatic conductivity in the body. It could be experienced as an ocean of love centred in the heart. It could be experienced as a dove, or an angel, descending from above onto the top of the head, or as a light coming from above, down through the crown into the heart. Or as Shakti, the divine energy in all of the universe.
All of these things could be descriptions of kundalini, experienced at different stages of spiritual development, or as useful metaphors. And there are other ways in which it can be experienced.
quote:
How do Christians come to terms with their energetic awakening? Do they feel there is nowhere within the church to go for support?
Christianity does have an understanding of kundalini, both in its rising form and its descending form. It is sometimes referred to as "water" and sometimes as "fire", and sometimes as the "holy spirit". It is also referred to as the "breath of God".
These are from the Christian bible:
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." [Mathew 3:11]
"Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him."" [John 1:32]
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." [John 3: 5-8]
In Sanskrit, the energy channels which carry the kundalini prana are called "nadis" which means "rivers". And one meaning of "prana" is "breath".
This understanding of kundalini can also be found in the concept of the higher and lower shekinah, which is found in the Kabballah. The Kabballah is the esoteric tradition of Judaism and of course Jesus was born as a Jew and grew up in a Jewish community. The shekinah is the indwelling of the Divine which rises up through the body and also descends from above. It is a Hebrew word and is feminine.
quote:
I too think that Christianity has lost its practices.
Well, obviously there are many different Christians with many different practices, just like in any religion. But if you look at Christianity as a whole, you can certainly find many practices being used and they are often very similar to yoga practices, especially when it comes to the monks and nuns living in Christian monasteries. Christians often practice silent contemplation, which is a form of meditation (dhyana). There is also the practice of silent prayer, raising emotions to a divine level (samyama). There are also verbal prayers (mantras), which are repeated a certain number of times a day. In yoga this is called japa. Some Christian monks and nuns even carry rosaries (prayer beads) on their belts, for counting the number of mantra repetitions. These rosaries are called "mala" in India, and are used by Indian sadhus for the same purpose.
Then of course there is service to others (karma yoga) and also bhakti yoga in the form of worship of the divine masculine (God the Father) and the divine feminine (mother Mary). There is also the worship of a spiritual teacher, Jesus, who is raised to the level of divinity, which is the practice of guru yoga. There are observances (yamas and niyamas), the practice of fasting (upavasa), and the practice of entering into states of ecstatic trance (samadhi). The monks and nuns also practice celibacy (brahmacharya) and charity (dana). There is advaita vedanta ("I and my Father are one"). Christianity is also a siddhi tradition, involving the practice of spiritual powers and many Christian saints have demonstrated siddhis (miracles).
So, there is certainly no shortage of practices in the Christian tradition, and they go right up to the highest level of yoga practice and realization. Of course, not all Christians make use of all of these practices, or reach the level of sainthood, but the opportunity is there for all of them.
Christi |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2021 : 07:35:08 AM
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Thank you for your thorough reply Christi.
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
I too think that Christianity has lost its practices.
Well, obviously there are many different Christians with many different practices, just like in any religion. But if you look at Christianity as a whole, you can certainly find many practices being used and they are often very similar to yoga practices, especially when it comes to the monks and nuns living in Christian monasteries. Christians often practice silent contemplation, which is a form of meditation (dhyana). There is also the practice of silent prayer, raising emotions to a divine level (samyama). There are also verbal prayers (mantras), which are repeated a certain number of times a day. In yoga this is called japa. Some Christian monks and nuns even carry rosaries (prayer beads) on their belts, for counting the number of mantra repetitions. These rosaries are called "mala" in India, and are used by Indian sadhus for the same purpose.
Then of course there is service to others (karma yoga) and also bhakti yoga in the form of worship of the divine masculine (God the Father) and the divine feminine (mother Mary). There is also the worship of a spiritual teacher, Jesus, who is raised to the level of divinity, which is the practice of guru yoga. There are observances (yamas and niyamas), the practice of fasting (upavasa), and the practice of entering into states of ecstatic trance (samadhi). The monks and nuns also practice celibacy (brahmacharya) and charity (dana). There is advaita vedanta ("I and my Father are one"). Christianity is also a siddhi tradition, involving the practice of spiritual powers and many Christian saints have demonstrated siddhis (miracles).
So, there is certainly no shortage of practices in the Christian tradition, and they go right up to the highest level of yoga practice and realization. Of course, not all Christians make use of all of these practices, or reach the level of sainthood, but the opportunity is there for all of them.
Christi
You're right, practices can be found in Christianity. I guess I was talking from personal experience, as I grew up in a place where the typical church goer wasn't offered very much in the way of effective practice. On the other hand, even there I have recently heard of people who went to great length to find Christian monks who gave them a practice similar to meditation and even a breathing technique. Perhaps the student has to prove he/she is ready on every path.
quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
Maybe. Not sure if it follows a beauty program
There's always retinoids if crinkling becomes an issues.  |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4512 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2021 : 08:12:34 AM
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quote:
You're right, practices can be found in Christianity. I guess I was talking from personal experience, as I grew up in a place where the typical church goer wasn't offered very much in the way of effective practice. On the other hand, even there I have recently heard of people who went to great length to find Christian monks who gave them a practice similar to meditation and even a breathing technique. Perhaps the student has to prove he/she is ready on every path.
Hi Blue,
Yes, I grew up in a Christian community as well. I was baptised and sent to Sunday school every week. But the people who were serious were not learning spiritual practices at the Sunday service, they were generally going to the monasteries and nunneries to study with the monks and nuns. It was the same in the Buddhist tradition, when I was studying in Nepal, Thailand and Sri Lanka. The people who were really serious were usually studying with monastics.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4512 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2021 : 12:00:46 PM
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Hi BlueRC,
p.s.
And I would agree that there are teachings within the Christian tradition that were only given to people who had reached a certain stage on the path. The Gospel of Thomas (13) is not the only reference to Jesus giving teachings in this way. There are also references within the Gnostic scriptures to Mary Magdalene being given teachings that were not given to the other disciples, because she was at a more advanced stage than they were.
This is quite normal in many yogic traditions. AYP is quite revolutionary, in that all practices are available for everyone. Of course, some practices come with pre-requisite conditions, that have to be met in order for the practices to be effective and safe, but it is up to the practitioner to decide if they meet the conditions, not the teacher.
Christi |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Mar 22 2021 : 07:13:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
This is quite normal in many yogic traditions. AYP is quite revolutionary, in that all practices are available for everyone.
Feast after famine, this is what discovering AYP is like. |
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jclone
United Arab Emirates
61 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2021 : 06:11:40 AM
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| Hah true! |
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Aknaton
Zambia
13 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2022 : 12:28:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
You're right, practices can be found in Christianity. I guess I was talking from personal experience, as I grew up in a place where the typical church goer wasn't offered very much in the way of effective practice. On the other hand, even there I have recently heard of people who went to great length to find Christian monks who gave them a practice similar to meditation and even a breathing technique. Perhaps the student has to prove he/she is ready on every path.
Hi Blue,
Yes, I grew up in a Christian community as well. I was baptised and sent to Sunday school every week. But the people who were serious were not learning spiritual practices at the Sunday service, they were generally going to the monasteries and nunneries to study with the monks and nuns. It was the same in the Buddhist tradition, when I was studying in Nepal, Thailand and Sri Lanka. The people who were really serious were usually studying with monastics.
Christi
Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4512 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2022 : 2:01:38 PM
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quote:
Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
Hi Aknaton,
I did not believe. I simply realized that there is no one who can believe. The "belief" and "the believer" both appear on the screen of consciousness, and are not who or what we are. "The believer" and "the belief" are both simply forms of false-identification within the mind, until we no longer identify with them. When we see this clearly, we awaken to our true nature, which is Christ-consciousness.
You may find this lesson helpful:
Lesson 274 - What's the End Game in Yoga?
Christi |
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Aknaton
Zambia
13 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2022 : 10:08:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
Hi Aknaton,
I did not believe. I simply realized that there is no one who can believe. The "belief" and "the believer" both appear on the screen of consciousness, and are not who or what we are. "The believer" and "the belief" are both simply forms of false-identification within the mind, until we no longer identify with them. When we see this clearly, we awaken to our true nature, which is Christ-consciousness.
You may find this lesson helpful:
Lesson 274 - What's the End Game in Yoga?
Christi
I see.
Imagine removing ecstatic conductivity from spinal breathing and inner silence from meditation. Or imagine removing enlightenment from yoga...
Thats the same way Christianity is without the Holy Spirit. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4512 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2022 : 10:56:20 PM
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Hi Aknaton,
Ultimately there is no enlightenment in yoga. There is a famous saying in Zen: "Nirvana is Samsara and Samsara is Nirvana".
In truth, there is no Christianity, no Holy Spirit, no mirror, no dust, no path, no mountain.
But the process of seeing this takes time, and as we are progressing on the path, walking up the mountain, so to speak, these things can seem very real, and we might feel that we want to tell our fellow travellers about them.
Belief is great, because it can carry us forwards. But it does not survive until the end of the path. It is a tool, that we have to cast aside at some point. There is another saying that: "It is good to be born into a religion, but not good to die in one". At some point we have to let it all go.
Christi |
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How Do Christians Deal With Kundalini Awakening?
