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sambo
Australia
35 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 03:18:13 AM
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Hey guys
After going at ayp the last 3 and half years somewhat solo( not much interaction with fellow practioners) i have recently been practicing with the local zen sangha. And WOW what a difference it has made with amplifying the purification effects sitting in a group dynamic. They also have 3 day retreats every 2 months and i have sat on two of them with good results.
The reason i am writing this is that i think zen is very compatible with the ayp baseline approach. and that there is more likely to be a zen sangha close by most people, than fellow ayp practioners to sit with.
Zazen in particular is a very grounded practice, partly i think because it does not involve introversion of the senses as much as eyes remain open and i have found their hand mudra to assist in this also.
So most practioners seem very grounded in silence which i think helps in a group dynamic on the retreats from any energy overloads.
I am not recommending zazen over yoganis deep meditation, although on the retreats we would sit for about 6+ hours a day. So i would practice zazen only and even zazen only the week before in order to make sure i was very grounded coming in.
Zen is also very practice based with little dogma and welcome people of all faiths and beliefs.
So i recommend checking out your local zen sangha. If you are thinking you would like to sit and interact with fellow practioners and dont have an ayp group established in your area yet.
Hope this is helpful (:
Sam |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 05:51:51 AM
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Hi Sam,
Thanks for sharing.
What is the actual procedure for zazen? Did you experience overload sitting for that long?
Love. |
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sambo
Australia
35 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 08:05:00 AM
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Hey kami
First of all my experience of zen has only been over the last few months so im not claiming any kind of expertise here but il share what i can (:
From my understanding the procedure for zazen in theory is really simple to 'just sit' without any kind of mental procedure but letting all phenomena pass and be as it is. It is also implying not to bring duality into the practice. for instance another instruction could be 'just breathe' don't witness the breath or manipulate it 'just breathe' without bringing anything to that instruction.
The eyes are left open or semi closed a metre or so in front, the gaze is open and peripheral,and the breath is left easy and into the 'hara' which is a ball 2 inches below the navel inbetween the spine and front of belly
They also place great importance on the sitting posture and hand mudra which is like making a egg shape in your lap with the tips of your thumbs touching.
Thats the most part of it. Would be best to ask a zen priest or maybe read a good book to clarify any more points.
And no i did not overload at all with this practice also the sitting was broken up into 40 minute segments with 10 minute walking meditation inbetween which helps and plenty of free time for long walks/exercise/sleep ect.
I would be interested to know how over sensitive meditators go with this practice, as it seems quite grounding in its effect.
much love
sam
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 12:45:25 PM
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Thanks for the insight, Sam.
For the sangha you attended, is the eyes open mandatory? Would eyes closed, or variations in sitting posture make you stand out or be classified a deviation from the zazen approach? You mention "they also place great importance on the sitting posture and hand mudra." What sitting postures are used? If someone is unable to assume that posture for the given time period, is it encouraged to slowly work your way into it, or are variations the norm?
Have you thought about starting your own local AYP group?
This isn't to divert the topic away from zazen sangha, but to branch out on your idea of "if there isn't a local AYP group.." I have always seen AYP as already being both inherently eclectic and internally coherent (the baselines, evolving experiences of its practitioners, horizontal transmission model..). Based on this, I think it makes it easier to integrate into a group atmosphere that has some degree of flexibility, and conversely have it facilitate a fairly wide range of practitioners.
Variety in energy and meditation-related silent sitting practice is something that I have encouraged in my limited personal experience within a group atmosphere, and it seemed just as good as everyone doing the exact same practice. The bhakti, tapas, intentionality, natural resonance between people, and focused social atmosphere are still shared. 'Just as good' and 'still shared' are not exactly acceptable standards to myself either, but that's the best of what I have so far. If others have additional input along these lines, it would be great to hear, as it has been hearing about integrating into a zazen retreat from an AYP baseline. |
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sambo
Australia
35 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2013 : 4:34:30 PM
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Hey aumnatural
thanks for your response,as far as i know eyes open is mandatory in zazen in as much as they wont teach you otherwise,and there is a few different options in the seated posture in order to cater for people with different flexibility levels. For instance you can turn your meditation cusion sideways and kneel over it (seiza) and then mostly variations on leg positions as lotus would be the position most aspired for. But most importantly i think its the same with most yogic sitting practices in that your spine must be straight and chin tucked in.
For as most meditators may well of noticed, that its in this position( erect spine,chin tucked) that your state of consciousness changes into a more focus and expansive state.In fact they say once in this position you are enlightened and its only a matter of not losing yourself in thoughts to keep your enlightenment.
Interestingly i found that the hand mudra which is like making an egg shape in your lap with the left hand on top and thumbs gently touching. Had as noticeable effect in keeping you from sensory introversion.( personal experience only)
Yes i have thought of starting an ayp group when i feel the time is right and if there is enough people interested.
In regard to sitting in a group setting its an interesting topic. For the effects seem to be multiplied considerably. Yogani does speak of this in his retreat book, but what im interested in is the effects that come from sitting with people of different practices. for instance does sitting in a room with very grounded people help keep you grounded as apposed to sitting with people who may be pushing the envelope a little to much(energy wise)? would be good to hear some more input on this
-sam |
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Zen retreats and meditation groups
