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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 15 2013 : 11:14:28 PM
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Hello,
For the past year and a half, I have been experiencing what I would like to call a sort of duality. I have slowly been getting more and more conscious and aware, but at the same time getting more and more unconscious and dysfunctional, so to speak.
For example, yesterday I was experiencing extreme loneliness, depression, and general suffering. I was thinking that I really wanted to die yesterday, and I was very judgmental, and kept thinking that there was no point in all this suffering. It was the lowest point in my life.
Today, however, was the exact opposite. Today I felt an overwhelming sense of peace that slowly grew and flowered throughout the day. By the end of the day I was aware of almost every egoic mind pattern that entered into my consciousness. I was aware of any pain that rose up in me and it dissipated instantly. I experienced little to no pain today. I would even go so far as to say that today was the most peaceful day that I've ever had.
When I am in a dysfunctional state, I throw out all awareness and any desire to follow a spiritual path and I allow myself to be taken over by my mind. I become attached, obsessed, angry, depressed, and other common symptoms of unconsciousness.
Conversely, when I am in a peaceful state, little escapes my awareness and pain can not remain for long. All that I feel is joy and peace, and judgment has no place.
Slowly, these two states of consciousness have been intensifying. Now both states are very intense and powerful in their affect on me. It's very strange for me, and I would like to know if anyone experiences the same thing or if this is a part of spiritual awakening. Any help would be much appreciated! Thank you and have a good day/night/whenever you are reading this. |
Edited by - TheWinniken on Apr 19 2013 4:27:05 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2013 : 08:30:54 AM
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Hi TheWinniken,
Yes this is normal.
What is your practice routine?
Do you do any kind of self inquiry?
The down/low phases happen just before an opening, when something (block) is trying to break free, be seen, it feels like a inner struggle.. followed by the opening where you feel a high and at peace.
The thing is, just before the low can grip you and take you all the way into the mind and depression, it is possible to catch it and not get fully pulled into it. It is like taking a step back and watching what is going on with the knowing, this too shall pass, I don't have to become so much a part of it that I get completely lost in it. It is a very slight shift in an inner state, a trust and a letting go.
It would be nice to know what your practices are (including self inq of any kind that you may be doing) for us to be able to help you some more.
Thank you for sharing.
Much Love!
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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2013 : 1:33:00 PM
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Hello Shanti,
My routine isn't really much of a routine. I do Deep Meditation sometimes, but I'm often met with discomfort, even though I generally do less than 5 minutes with 10 minutes of rest. I read Tolle, practice self inquiry, and I use awareness. I use the situations around me to allow me to exercise this awareness and self inquiry. For example: if a family member or friend is talking to me and begins to talk angrily about someone or something, or if I begin to feel anger and unhappiness, I'll use the light of my awareness to dissipate any feelings of judgement or tension in the present moment.
I guess you could say that my routine is just presence throughout the day with a little bit of deep meditation here and there if I can bear it. Often times it's difficult for me to catch this sudden shift from awareness to unconsciousness. It feels as though the change happens before I wake up, and by the time I do wake up, the bad mood and disregard for any spiritual practice has already taken over.
It seems the ego is fighting back. Perhaps practicing awareness before going to bed can help me catch a possible early onset of any negative thought patterns. Oh, and here is something interesting: last night when I was laying in bed with my eyes closed trying to sleep, something profound happened. I no longer felt my body laying down against the bed. The only thing I could feel was the presence and life in each limb. The peace I had yesterday was immense. It felt like an infinite warm space at the center of my body. Thank you for reading and helping and have a nice day. |
Edited by - TheWinniken on Apr 19 2013 4:28:42 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2013 : 6:35:40 PM
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Hi TW,
Beautiful experience from last night. Thank you for sharing that with us.
If DM causes discomfort, have you tried any other form of meditation, like breath meditation? What you are doing (being present) is a wonderful practice, but if you don't have access to some inner silence, being present kind of inquiry can make things very hard. It can also become a way to escape without really dissolving the issues, and they will come back again and again. It is possible to see through the issues/patterns and letting them go, but some inner silence and a way to letting go is important for this.
What you are doing is like practicing 24/7 and that is fine at some point, at some point our life becomes constant practices... but you have to learn to let go into stillness as well.
How about samyama, have you tried that?
Would you mind adding breath meditation as a sitting practice?
I think bringing in a structured practice will help you a lot.
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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2013 : 10:27:59 PM
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Hello Shanti,
You are very welcome, it was certainly a very profound and powerful experience!
I have not tried any other form of meditation except for one that was detailed in the Power of Now-I believe it was called body scan meditation or something of the like-and it caused extreme discomfort. My brother is willing to pay for a teacher to teach me Transcendental Meditation though.
I experience a lot of inner silence throughout the week when I am present. It's evolved in depth and clarity over the past few months, and the mental noise is diminishing rapidly.
I have not tried Samyama, but I have tried breathing meditation. However, sometimes that causes discomfort as well, but I am willing to try it again as well as try Samyama. I will attempt to do Deep Meditation again tonight and see how that goes
Thank you and have a nice day! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 01:23:05 AM
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I agree with Shanti's recommendations, above. A brief regular daily practice would be more beneficial and less rocky than what it sounds like you are doing, with the continual inquiry, and as Shanti pointed out, that works better in the context of a regular meditation practice. Breath meditation would be a good way to start.
In the course of my spiritual path I have had the ups and downs you describe, and I believe it is a normal part of the "purification process." Our spiritual practice stirs up "stuff" which we face and release, leading to more clarity and peace. The only thing I would add, personally, is that "it's ok to feel what we feel." This may seem obvious, but you can save yourself a lot of additional grief by not adding to it by beating yourself up. You feel like sh*t on any given day? ok. Go ahead and FEEL it, wallow in it if necessary, as long as it's not interfering with your normal daily functions. Eventually it will get old and in any case, you already know it will soon pass. The ego can be like a toddler; acting up to get attention, even negative attention. If you don't over-react it will play itself out.
I hope that is helpful. Thank you for sharing with us and please let us know how it goes. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 09:12:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by TheWinniken
I have not tried any other form of meditation except for one that was detailed in the Power of Now-I believe it was called body scan meditation or something of the like-and it caused extreme discomfort. My brother is willing to pay for a teacher to teach me Transcendental Meditation though.
I experience a lot of inner silence throughout the week when I am present. It's evolved in depth and clarity over the past few months, and the mental noise is diminishing rapidly.
I have not tried Samyama, but I have tried breathing meditation. However, sometimes that causes discomfort as well, but I am willing to try it again as well as try Samyama. I will attempt to do Deep Meditation again tonight and see how that goes
Thank you and have a nice day!
Yes, I think you do have access to a lot of inner silence, based on what you have written. The thing is though without a structured practice it is like a wild horse... majestic, enticing, beautiful but you cannot ride it till you tame it and make it your friend. Even a few min of being in a structured practice will help you understand how to work with this vast inner silence.
If you are comfortable with the "body scan" type of meditation (I have not tried it so not sure I can guide you on it or tell you how it compares to deep meditation or breath meditation) then you can go with that, but you have to do it at a certain time every day for a certain duration. It has to be treated as a practice, not something you do for a few min here and there during the day on certain days. It has to be a consistent practice... every day... come rain or shine (except if you are overloading and have to self pace).
Do you get what I am saying?
A structured practice helps us understand how to work with the gifts we have. Without it, we remain at the mercy of chances.
I hope you did not do DM close to bed time last night. That may not be the best way to go... rather try to get into a routine of doing some kind of practice first thing in the morning and then help integrate it as you go about your day.
Hope this helps.
Wish you all the best!
PS: When you add meditation as a routine, you can add samyama to the routine right after meditation. Don't forget to rest for a bit after the session is done. |
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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2013 : 1:49:53 PM
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Hello Radharani and Shanti
It makes a lot of sense for it to be apart of the purification process because each down phase is getting progressively worse, but when awareness returns it's much more peaceful than before.
You're right, having a consistent routine as opposed to a sporadic one would be much more helpful, but it's difficult because I'm sensitive to meditation. Even doing just 5 minutes of DM with 20 minutes of rest once a day causes overloading. I'm sensitive to all the meditations that I've done so far. Would Samyama help with this? And what is Samyama anyway? I'm not very knowledgeable about spiritual practice, so any help would be much appreciated! :) |
Edited by - TheWinniken on Apr 17 2013 10:15:13 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2013 : 08:37:41 AM
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You can try it and see.
Here is the lesson on samyama: http://www.aypsite.org/150.html
If meditation overloads you, maybe staying away from it is a good idea. Since you said you do the body scan and that works for you, make a practice session of that maybe? |
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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2013 : 5:00:05 PM
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Hello Shanti,
Would it be possible to do Samyama without meditation beforehand? Also, the body scan is basically just feeling the life and Being in every limb of your body and then your body as a whole. It's an exercise described in The Power of Now, but it also caused a great deal of discomfort and overloading, so that's also out of the question. My brother wants to sign me up for Transcendental Meditation classes, so perhaps that could work? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2013 : 6:10:16 PM
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TM is similar to AYP deep meditation.
The only prerequisite for Samyama is to have access to some inner silence. Since you do seem to have this (in my humble opinion, not saying that is how it is, since I can only go by why you have written and not know your inner state)... I would say you can try samyama. But if others disagree, I hope they will speak up. |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2013 : 6:43:00 PM
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| I'm not very experienced, but based on what I've experienced I'd like to put in my 2 cents. Before I found AYP, I did 3-4 months of nothing but rigorous and unrelenting self-inquiry. To put it simply, it completely ruined me because I had no practice to back it up. It was mind playing games with the mind, creating more anxiety/depression/feelings of loneliness every time. Again, this is just my experience, but I'd try to incorporate atleast some kind of practice,self-inquiry without inner silence is deadly (search advaita trap on youtube, quite funny). |
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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2013 : 10:37:53 PM
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Hello Shanti and ak33,
The self inquiry without inner silence has definitely caused a lot of pain and loneliness in the past, but I have managed to move past it for the most part.
Today was another one of my down days, but it wasn't as severe considering the last time I had a panic attack. I had a severe headache, some chest and throat pains and fever like sensations even though I actually felt cold and damp to the touch according to my brother. The base of my spine was also hurting too, I was very sad, and I had the sensation and need to cry even though there was nothing wrong. All of these are common symptoms for me, and I would like to know if these are purification symptoms or something to be worried about. Mind you, I haven't done any meditation of any sort in almost a month. All I've done is read Tolle and use awareness in my daily activities.
I've actually had these odd and severe headaches , cold sweats, and other varying symptoms for a while now. My doctor tried prescribing me some potent Ibuprofen but it had no effect, and other medication just makes me feel worse.
Any help would be much appreciated. I don't want to do any more spiritual practices without guidance because I don't want to make these strange symptoms worse, so perhaps it'd be best to hold off on Samyama until I am certain of what's happening. Or perhaps the symptoms are normal and I'm just worrying for nothing, haha. Either way, thank you for the help so far and have a good day/night/whenever you are reading this. :) |
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ak33
Canada
229 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2013 : 06:19:43 AM
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| Of course, each person has different experiences, but these sound more like symptoms of an anxiety/panic disorder. I've been through chronic anxiety myself, so I know that things like cold sweats happen all the time. Plus you said so yourself that you have not done any practices for a month, so I'm not sure if these are symptoms of purification. Perhaps shanti or someone more experienced could shed some light On this |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2013 : 10:17:47 AM
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TW, what, if any other practices have you done before the panic attacks set in?
I would really ask you to back off self inq and being present as a practice, for now. Ground yourself. Keep yourself busy. Eat heavier. Hopefully you have a "full" day that keeps you busy.
I know of some who after months of stopping practices, can still experience purification symptoms. When people have gone through (extreme) purification, there becomes a mental association of certain feelings, thoughts, words, music, even smells that can bring back the symptoms of purification. That is one reason I keep asking people to not go into fear with things, it gets so ingrained in our minds that just the mention of something can trigger all the symptoms. It takes a while to unlearn this association.
So maybe give us some more background on when these panic attacks started. Or as ak33 says, it may be anxiety/panic disorder and it maybe a good idea to see a professional about these.
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TheWinniken
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2013 : 4:25:53 PM
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Hello Shanti and ak33,
I've only suffered a panic attack once in my life, and that was on Sunday.
The last thing that I did was Deep Meditation, and after 3 minutes my heart started racing, my chest started hurting, and it was difficult to breathe, so I stopped. A few weeks before that I did 5 minutes, and my heart was racing and I felt my heart beat at the base of my spine and at the top of it.
Other than that it's just been self-inquiry, presence, and spiritual reading. I have had anxiety before, but it never got this bad until after I started my spiritual practices 2 years ago. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2013 : 6:04:26 PM
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In that case, definitely stay off practices (all kinds including self inquiry) for a bit. Ground, walk, exercise, eat heavier, keep yourself occupied for a bit. Once these anxiety feelings subside, maybe start with a structured practice, but you will have to go very slowly. No doing any inquiry and being present practices all day.
You are sensitive to practices, so be aware of that when you start again.
Hope things settle down soon.
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2013 : 8:27:05 PM
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TW, ibuprofen?! puhleeze <rolls eyes>. I'm glad you saw your doctor, and the fact that he gave you only ibuprofen (?!) pretty much reassures me that he could find nothing physically wrong with you.
Could be ongoing purification, could also be panic attack, which can be a manifestation of purification.
In any case I have to agree with Shanti: Back off on the self-inquiry! seriously. You said above that it caused difficulty in the past but you "have managed to move past it for the most part." Clearly, you haven't; instead, what I believe may be happening is that you "moved past" that particular earlier manifestation and have now gotten into deeper layers of "stuff" getting stirred up.
If I were you I would do some physical activity, maybe try some gentle asana and deep breathing, or tai chi, or something active yet at the same time relaxing, like gardening. Give that energy somewhere to go other than into panic and headaches. I personally find gardening, especially growing veggies, to be extremely grounding and soothing. Putting your hands in the earth feels good and watching the plants grow as you follow their progress every day is so rewarding. If you grow something edible like lettuce or sweet peas (and you don't need much space, even just a large flower pot will do), when you finally eat what you have grown, that has a very grounding and healing effect. Eating heavier, especially "comfort foods" (for me that would be stuff like mac & cheese or pizza) should also help.
Once the anxiety symptoms subside I would begin slowly and cautiously with simple "following the breath" meditation.
All the best.  |
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pkj
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2013 : 2:15:35 PM
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TheWinniken, I think your expericences are similar to mine as I am very sensitive o meditation as well. I will go in very highs and lows on alternate days. My suggestion is to cut down on meditation. Actually in my case I was doing too much few hours everyday. I was becoming consious and my Kundilini was giving lot of bliss but on the same time I was feeling very low and anxious as well. So my advise is to do exercise, Yoga, Eat heavy and just sit down for minutes if you can otherwise take time off. Don't start any new technique yet. I think this happens with people who are very sensitive. By staying away and keeping my self busy has helped me lot.
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2013 : 12:23:26 PM
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Stop living in your head so much and begin living in your body, as pkj advised. I'm talking about long walks out of doors every day, regular periods of heavy exercise so that you sweat for an hour, and perhaps, in a week or two, a regular, 5-10 minute period of sitting deep meditation once each day followed by 10 minutes of rest. Be easy with whatever arises, both in and out of meditation. Stay away from asking yourself so many questions or analyzing every thought, emotion, sensation, perception and observation. In Zen, it is said that the process of self-realization is not so much one of finding the answers, but of losing the questions...! Stopping to think about one's reactions--does this make me happy, will that make me anxious, did he cause me sadness, etc--this sort of self-analysis is nothing but confusing and distracting from actually FEELING your feelings, perceiving your perceptions and sensing your sensations. BE in life, don't think about it as different from your spiritual path. And DO NOT begin Samyama, it is 100% based upon a regularly established practice of deep meditation as it's foundation. Until you can depend on sitting twice a day for at least 10 minutes comfortably in your meditation practice, Samyama is a waste of time and could cause nasty side-effects. Eat well, socialize as much as you can and allow life to be as playful and joyous as possible--a good attitude, even if merely made a mood of, will lead eventually to a more peaceful, happy and spiritually fulfilling existence!
Michael |
Edited by - mikkiji on May 11 2013 12:24:49 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2013 : 05:47:39 AM
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| Beautiful post mikkiji |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2013 : 7:08:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
Beautiful post mikkiji
I agree completely. |
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Differing States of Consciousness
