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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 2:06:55 PM
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Hello & Namaste All,
I'm going to do this a bit backwards (post a question first, and then follow up with an "intro post" soon --- "short version" is: I love AYP, it is a daily part of my sadhana, and *WOW* has it made a difference in the benefits derived / received from my yogic practices! Thanks, Yogani! And thanks to all of you, here on the Forum!)
So, my situation / question:
I'm feeling VERY ready to start snipping (have been in what I would call - and feel is the case per diagrams - Advanced Stage 1 for a while -- and daily, for close to a year).
The Bhakti has me ultra-motivated, and ecstatic conductivity in general has gotten amazing - and I even feel that I can *almost* get into Stage 2 on my own [though the all-important "Not Quite" is actually the case]).
For instance, sitting here at the computer, I can (without any strain or sense of effort), touch the underside of my soft palate, and touch what I'm guessing is the uvula, with my tongue.
However, even doing my best to following Yogani's "with finger" suggestions, can't get any farther back (or, at least not beyond a bit more pressure on the soft palate).
THE ISSUE:
I've prepped for snipping as much as it seems possible to do (bought magnifying mirror, high-end cuticle trimmers ["wire cutter" design - though any clarification on what that means would be appreciated], played around with angles, hand and body positions, etc. -- and no matter what, can't (so far) get myself to *do* it.
(I picture Krishna, in the unpublished 108th Chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, stating, "And if thou snippest not, thou art a wuss, O Arjuna!")
;-)
I've checked in with myself (repeatedly) -- and pure fear / "terminal wussishness" actually isn't the primary issue --- though per the following, a somewhat "refined form" of it may be.
The issue is: because of how (relatively little) I can actually see / discern, even with good angle and lighting of *where* to snip - meaning: how *much* to "get" / not get with the clippers ---- I'm *VERY* concerned about accidentally doing too MUCH, and ending up at the ER (Worst Case) or at my office ("Best Worst Case" ) trying to explain my interesting vocal situation to my boss ("Yeth, ih wuth a oga thig -- thuppothed to increath blith ......."
The online photos provided by an (I think?) German dude here in the forum didn't help matters --- it looked like his dentist lasered _vertically_, and I thought we were supposed to snip horizontally - i.e. tendon runs up-down, snippers move side-to-side.
So, this is all my very long-winded way of asking:
Do you have any suggestions for getting past the fear hurdle with reasonable confidence that the person snipping can make a good start, without doing themselves medical or (per above) vocally inconvenient harm?
I *have* reviewed ALL kechari-related material in the first / main AYP book / lessons, here in the Forum, and elsewhere on the web.
The twofold problem boils down to:
1. How do you guage that you're grabbing the correct amount of tendon / tissue (it seems like a fraction of a centimeter too much could be quite problematic, possible).
2. How do you keep the tongue still long enough to see clearly, and moved in with the clippers in a steady-handed way (not so fast that you overdo it, or miss entirely) - before the tongue either flexes or slips away OR you need a breath?
(And please note -- I believe my tongue is as strong / steady as the average yogic practitioner's -- I would guess -- and that my ability to hold my breath is the same).
Thanks SO much, in advance, for any input --- I'm happy to final "jump in" to the forum, and look forward to participating!
Namaste,
Kirtanman
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 2:37:34 PM
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(I picture Krishna, in the unpublished 108th Chapter of the Bhagavad Gita, stating, "And if thou snippest not, thou art a wuss, O Arjuna!")
Kirtanman: O son of noble family: simply clip as little as possible the first few times, wherein thou shalt surely overcome thy neuroticism and become worthy of thy warrior caste. Surely then, thou shalt later clip without excessive concern, and Kechari shall in time be thine.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 04 2006 9:47:31 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 2:39:20 PM
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The online photos provided by an (I think?) German dude here in the forum didn't help matters --- it looked like his dentist lasered _vertically_, and I thought we were supposed to snip horizontally - i.e. tendon runs up-down, snippers move side-to-side.
Yes, that cut did seem to be vertical. At the time I didn't comment, but now I think the cut may have been a mistake.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2006 : 2:49:00 PM
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| welcome, Kirtanman. Glad that you're here and ready to snip. Like David said, start with itty bitty snips. You probably won't have any blood at first, and if your bhakti is as loud as you say, you'll want to take more and more snips very quickly. But like any new practice, you just have to dive in. Just do it. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 03:12:45 AM
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It's way late / early -- so for now, simply:
THANKS & Namaste to both of you (David & Meg) for the encouraging input. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 03:51:48 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
It's way late / early -- so for now, simply:
THANKS & Namaste to both of you (David & Meg) for the encouraging input.
so . . . has the snipping begun?  |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 4:37:41 PM
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Hi Kirtanman
This is easy for me to say as one who never had to clip, but are you sure you don't want to see what happens naturally? It seems from your post in the bhakti yoga thread that you are doing just fine with your bhakti. Your tongue naturally moves into kechari, and from what I understand stage one is quite adequate for conductivity. If stage one is spontaneous and feels comfortable why push it? I'm rolling around in stages 2, 3 and 4 and haven't yet attained what you tell us of in your bhakti thread. On the other hand, who can say what you may experience in stages 2 and above? I assume this question is what may be driving you forward.
Clip or not I wish you the best.
Peace, alan |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 02:22:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
It's way late / early -- so for now, simply:
THANKS & Namaste to both of you (David & Meg) for the encouraging input.
so . . . has the snipping begun?
Nope.
I had a similar experience the other night (to what I described in my first post) -- I feel kind of like a kid getting ready to go off the high dive ... make a big ol' production of it .... and get right to the edge .... and .......... I think I'll try again tomorrow!
Like that.
HOWEVER (and it's a very pertinent "however", I feel) -- this last time, it really wasn't the fear dance, as much as the realization that based on the combination of mirrors / flat surfaces in my apartment, it's really awkward to combine balance / angle / vision in a way that works.
And, I'm not necessarily the sharpest tool in the shed -- and *finally* figured out that the little magnifying mirror I bought magnifies more as you lean away from it (as in: no wonder I couldn't see so well, when I leaned in!)
I do truly feel drawn to snipping --- it's really down to being a logistical thing at the moment: my eyes aren't great to begin with - correctable to somewhere in the same hemisphere as 20/20, more or less, probably -- but with the depth perception of a myopic mole.
So, I'm truly now in the position of trying to figure out how to be able to *tell* how much I'm going to snip -- I'm literally in a position where:
A. I'll be ready to snip *little* enough, and my tongue flexes, and I miss entirely
OR
B. I feel like I'm going to accidentally take *way* too BIG a chunk.
Any further tips? (no pun intended)
Namaste - and Thanks Again to All,
Kirtanman |
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breathe
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 2:53:19 PM
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Hi Kirtanman,
I have found that the tongue becomes less jittery after a snip or two and starts to hold still. The first snip is the scariest and after that it seems to become increasingly easy. I just keep the snips nice and small. Even with that I seem to bleed a bit and there is usually a little pain. I would suggest taking a deep breath, relax as much as possible on the first one and just toe the water with small snips. My tongue was darting all over the place before my first one. It is much easier now. Good luck, Tom |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2006 : 8:30:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by breathe
Hi Kirtanman,
I have found that the tongue becomes less jittery after a snip or two and starts to hold still. The first snip is the scariest and after that it seems to become increasingly easy. I just keep the snips nice and small. Even with that I seem to bleed a bit and there is usually a little pain. I would suggest taking a deep breath, relax as much as possible on the first one and just toe the water with small snips. My tongue was darting all over the place before my first one. It is much easier now. Good luck, Tom
Hi Tom --- I don't have a great system for remembering / checking posts -- and just saw this (on July 25th) -- thanks!
(Note to Yogani ----- RSS Feeds are allegedly easy to set up these days --- if you haven't check into that, you may want to -- and if you need help, please let me know!)
And no, still no snippage --- I'm letting bhakti be my guide - but your suggestions (Tom specifically -- everyone -- sincerely - in general) are very, very helpful and comforting.
As bhakti / ecstasy continues to increase, my tongue spends more time in Stage 1 Kechari ("way far back" -- i.e. when my tongue isn't tripping the ecstasy switch by applying pressure to the very start of the soft palate, I flick the uvula around with my tongue for the heck of it .... -- and it [my tongue] feels *even* softer, more relaxed and more natural in that position.
Point Being: Neurophysiological change / enhancement is clearly continuing, despite lack of attempted modification of one of my very favorite body parts by trying to perform a controversial self-surgical technique with an extremely sharp object.*
*Does languaging have anything to do with the way we experience life and the world around us? [DISCUSS]
Cheers, Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
"Kirtan - Leave It to Chants!"
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2006 : 06:55:05 AM
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Kirtanman,
You mention that you can flick the uvula with your tongue.You should be able to enter stage 2 kechari mudra then without snipping the frenum. I am able to enter stage 2 and stage 3 kechari but I still need to use a finger to help enter. My tongue does not reach the uvula without the help of a finger pushing it back.
I suggest that you review this link on kechari to see if you can enter without snipping. Victor and Alan did not require any snipping. You may be one of the lucky ones!
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=359
With Peace,
Paul |
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Kechari Snipping - Getting Started - Pls. Help
