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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 3:23:26 PM
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Hello,
today after many months, reading this post http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic...._ID=529#1013 i decided to change the way i say "AM"...
i simply pronouced it as an italian word,without knowing that the sound is exactly like the chakras syllables without the first letter (L-"AM" V-"AM" R-"AM" Y-"AM" H-"AM")
I was very happy, i felt the sound more gentle, soft and it felt like it really wanted to merge in silence. And i was feeling it strongly in my heart, like if my head moved there!
After the meditation i went on the web and found the heart chakra syllable is "YAM"...so i could see why my mantra were resonating there.
Is this the sound of "AM" i should use?
because if i read ayam the way i read other sanskrit words from an italian point of view, the "am" sound match as i said the AM of chakra's syllables :-)
Thank you!
ps: i listened to Yogani Mp3, the way he says the mantra is a sound that i simply cannot pronounce.
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Edited by - Rinaldo on Mar 24 2013 2:03:06 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2013 : 7:26:20 PM
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Hi Rinaldo,
Yes, the mantra I AM is pronounced exactly as the Sanskrit AYAM. The AM part of the mantra is pronounced as VAM, LAM, YAM etc. without the first letter.
It is fine if the mantra locates itself in a particular part of your body. We don't deliberately locate it anywhere, unless we are using the solar centering technique described in lesson 368.
So if it locates naturally in the heart that is fine.
Christi |
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 12:31:30 AM
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Woah, at leat after many months i finally know why i was unconfortable with the mantra!
My old pronounce was so irritating :(
thank you, i'm so happy!
:D |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 07:47:59 AM
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Hi Rinaldo,
Actually, the pronunciation of the chakra bija mantras (lam, vam, etc) is NOT the same as I AM. Lam, vam, ram, yam and ham rhyme with "drum" (essentially, lum, vum, rum, yum, hum) with the "a" being a short a. I AM, on the other hand, is exactly as it sounds - as you would say, "I am Rinaldo", where the a in "am" is as in "apple".
However, if what you are doing seems right to you and there is ongoing cultivation of inner silence, that is all that matters. 
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 12:44:00 PM
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Kami, the pronunciation i speak abaout is the same this guy use for RAM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaHX_wLKYd0
without the !R!. Before i used to say it the way David Obsidian pointed in his old post:
"I think I've usefully pointed out a peculiarity of American pronunciation, that's worth taking into the radar for Americans, at least in some regions; if they say 'I am' they may well be saying
AYËM
and I am using the dots to indicate that they are pronouncing the vowel in a nasal fashion. If they do pronounce it that way, it's sufficiently far from AYAM to be worth looking at."
:-) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 1:19:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Hi Rinaldo,
Actually, the pronunciation of the chakra bija mantras (lam, vam, etc) is NOT the same as I AM. Lam, vam, ram, yam and ham rhyme with "drum" (essentially, lum, vum, rum, yum, hum) with the "a" being a short a. I AM, on the other hand, is exactly as it sounds - as you would say, "I am Rinaldo", where the a in "am" is as in "apple".
However, if what you are doing seems right to you and there is ongoing cultivation of inner silence, that is all that matters.
Hi Kami,
The first five chakra bija mantras are essentially the Sanskrit letters La, Va, Ra, Ya, and Ha with the anusvaara added. So it is a short "a" rhyming with the "a" in "rural", the same as the second "a" in "Ayam". There is a Sanskrit short "u" vowel which rhymes with the "u" in drum, but it is not used in the case of these mantras. The anusvaara does not change the sound of the vowel.
There is a cool chakra beeja mantra beatbox on this webpage by MC Yogi.
You can hear them being chanted here on this video of a sahaja yoga class.
All the best
Christi |
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 2:19:31 PM
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i changed the topic title, because the discussion it's more abaout the sound than the location^^
Christi the way mc yogi chant them is the way i read them too in my language:)
Yogani wrote different people can reach same result with a different pronuncation, i'll try for a while now with the new sound and see if i feel more confortable.
Anyway when Kami says "I am Rinaldo" he is right, i use the "a" of apple. so for me ayam and i am are two different sounds. Maybe this is why i'm still a little confused after so much time!
ps:if we are purifying the sushumna it could also make sense that the mantra rhymes with the chakra syllable? |
Edited by - Rinaldo on Mar 24 2013 3:13:55 PM |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 4:50:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
[quote]
Hi Kami,
The first five chakra bija mantras are essentially the Sanskrit letters La, Va, Ra, Ya, and Ha with the anusvaara added. So it is a short "a" rhyming with the "a" in "rural", the same as the second "a" in "Ayam". There is a Sanskrit short "u" vowel which rhymes with the "u" in drum, but it is not used in the case of these mantras. The anusvaara does not change the sound of the vowel.
There is a cool chakra beeja mantra beatbox on this webpage by MC Yogi.
You can hear them being chanted here on this video of a sahaja yoga class.
All the best
Christi
Hi Christi,
Yes, that is the whole point about the pronunciation. The problem is that there is really no equivalent in English for many nuances in Samskrtam. The chakra bija mantras can be thought of without any confusion-causing vowels - as in lm, vm, rm, ym, and hm. The MC Yogi video is incorrect. The sahaja yoga video is true to the actual Devanagari script of the mantras corresponding to each chakra. For example, in the second (correct) video, the muladhara bija mantra is pronounced "lummmmm...", rhyming with "drummmm". "Lam"" as in "lamb" or a as in "apple" is not true to the Devanagari script.
The mantras with the anusvarams is exactly how they are heard when focused on, in my experience.
"I am" or "ayam", both have more of long a as in apple, very different than the bija mantras.
Rinaldo, now I see where the confusion arose from! The mantra in the video you referenced is "Raaam", as in "Rama", the avatar of Vishnu, also meaning "joy". This is different than the "Rmmm" of the manipura chakra. And this pronunciation is totally ok for the ayam.
My best to both of you,
Kami |
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Rinaldo
Italy
47 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 4:58:23 PM
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Nice kami,
I'm very happy the sound is correct:-)
Thank you for the help
Grazie |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 6:03:19 PM
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Hi Kami,
quote:
The sahaja yoga video is true to the actual Devanagari script of the mantras corresponding to each chakra. For example, in the second (correct) video, the muladhara bija mantra is pronounced "lummmmm...", rhyming with "drummmm". "Lam"" as in "lamb" or a as in "apple" is not true to the Devanagari script.
Ah, O.K. This could be the source of the confusion here. When I listen to the second video (the one you say is correct) and I listen to the muladhara bija mantra, I hear lammmmm, rhyming with lamb, and not lummmm rhyming with mum.
That is why I think it is confusing for Westerners to translate the word as "lum". If I said "lummmmmm", it would sound like something very different to what the man in the video is saying.
So it could be that we are hearing different things.
Anyway, now that we have a video, anyone interested can listen to it and copy to the best of their ability.
All the best,
Christi |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 6:25:13 PM
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Hi Christi,
Ahhhh (slapping forehead).. I see what the problem is now. It is how things are pronounced in the UK/Europe vs. the US. I was puzzled when I saw your post saying the second video sounded like "lamb".. Until I suddenly remembered how my cousins from the UK pronounce "lamb". Here, lamb is pronounced with the "a" as in "apple" or "amber" or "angst"..
Rinaldo: glad it is clarified!! Happy meditating!!
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2013 : 6:58:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Hi Christi,
Ahhhh (slapping forehead).. I see what the problem is now. It is how things are pronounced in the UK/Europe vs. the US. I was puzzled when I saw your post saying the second video sounded like "lamb".. Until I suddenly remembered how my cousins from the UK pronounce "lamb". Here, lamb is pronounced with the "a" as in "apple" or "amber" or "angst"..
This is brilliant. Now I feel like someone out of "lost in translation".
We also say "lamb" with an "a" as in "apple", but maybe we say "apple" differently on this side of the pond? 
I was getting confused when you said that apple had a long "a". I was like: "since when?".
I shall bow out before we create total confusion.
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2013 : 10:53:56 PM
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| I am (or should that be "ayam...?") SO glad that, when Maharishi Mahesh Yogi gave me the TM mantras 37 years ago, he only chanted them and had us repeat to him, and said to NEVER try to write them down! So, I'd never seen any of them written down--it IS the writing which dices and slices the pronunciation! When transmitted orally, there is never a problem! I'll stay out of trying to clarify any of these pronunciation difficulties--you should have heard how the people from New Jersey or Australia butchered the pronunciations, no matter how hard they tried to get them right |
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Mantra rhyming with chakra bija mantras
