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Namath
350 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 05:15:56 AM
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This article got my attention today:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...xzz2Klu7AsSm
Other than it's highly interesting ,i couldn't but smile reading about the dark patch...It's understandable why the Quran called it "Nasieh Kazeba" "Sinful forehead" in Surah AlAlaq & why Prostrating "Elsojoud" is considered of high importance 
Here's Surat Al Alaq:
In the Name of Allah,the All-Merciful:
"Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous. Who has taught by the pen. He has taught man that which he knew not.
Nay! Verily, man does transgress.
Because he considers himself self-sufficient
Surely, unto your Lord is the return
Have you seen him who prevents. A servant when he prays
Have you seen if he is on the guidance. Or enjoins Taqwa
Have you seen if he denies and turns away
Knows he not that Allah sees.
Nay! If he ceases not, We will catch him by the forehead
A lying, sinful forehead!
Then let him call upon his council.
We will call out the guards of Hell!
Nay! Do not obey him. Fall prostrate and draw near (to Allah)! "
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Edited by - Namath on Feb 13 2013 05:19:12 AM |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 11:51:31 AM
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Thanks. Very interesting on the forehead. So in the Muslim faith, is the 3rd eye associated with the devil?
Best, Jeff |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 12:19:10 PM
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woow Jeff...you just put your hand on the wound directly. I've been concerned about this issue ever since I started spiritual practices.
The answer is : "I don't know ....but from this surah,I took it as you did,there's an indication that the area of the third eye is delusional"
But I too would love to hear an answer for this question from anyone who has deeply studied the Quran and is on an inward Journey as well.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 1:02:13 PM
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It could also mean the part of the brain that does all the thinking (which is the devil   )
http://www.livestrong.com/article/1...king-skills/
Prefrontal Cortex
A 2001 article in the "Annual Review of Neuroscience" notes that the prefrontal cortex---the area of the brain closest to the forehead and just above the eyes---is important to logic and reasoning, thinking and personality. In fact, damage to this part of the brain can result in tremendous personality change, as exemplified by the "frontal lobotomy." In this semi-surgical procedure, historically performed to relieve certain psychological conditions including psychosis, physicians disconnected the prefrontal cortex from the rest of the brain. Post-lobotomy, the patient retained all normal physical function, including speech and mobility, but the personality changed markedly.
Sponsored Links
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/1...xzz2Knpxuea6
The 3rd eye is the pituitary gland and is not a part of the brain. 
EDIT: Not pitutary gland... I meant the pineal gland.. thanks Kami for fixing it. |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 1:29:54 PM
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Brilliant!
Thank you Shanti
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 1:42:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
woow Jeff...you just put your hand on the wound directly. I've been concerned about this issue ever since I started spiritual practices.
The answer is : "I don't know ....but from this surah,I took it as you did,there's an indication that the area of the third eye is delusional"
But I too would love to hear an answer for this question from anyone who has deeply studied the Quran and is on an inward Journey as well.
The third eye is also often described as the access point to the "astral worlds". Lot's of opportunity to get misled or confused there.
Best, Jeff |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 1:57:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jeff
The third eye is also often described as the access point to the "astral worlds". Lot's of opportunity to get misled or confused there.
Best, Jeff
The third eye is a part of the expansion... you really think any system will label it as "lying" and "sinful"? Wouldn't it make more sense to label the "thinking mind" as "lying" and "sinful"? Finally what makes any experiences we have misleading and confusing? The mind! The part of the brain that "thinks".
Here are a few explanations to the line Namath quoted:
Nay! If he ceases not, We will catch him by the forehead
A lying, sinful forehead!
http://www.eajaz.org/eajaz/index.ph...d=74&lang=en
Nay! If he (Abu Jahl) ceases not, We will catch him by the forehead. A lying, sinful forehead!] Allah, the Almighty, says: [Nay! If he (Abu Jahl) ceases not, We will catch him by the forehead. A lying, sinful forehead!] (Al-`Alaq: 16)
The Scientific Fact:
The human brain consists of three main lobes; the frontal lobe, the occipital lobe, the temporal lobe, and the parietal lobe. Each lobe has its own special function. Yet, they all work together and complement each other. The frontal lobe in the human brain is distinctive from that of animals since it includes centers that are responsible for speaking and behavior. It also includes certain neural centers with distinctive functions and places including the pre-frontal cortex which lies exactly behind the forehead and forms the major part of the frontal lobe. This pre-frontal cortex is the main unit for building the character of the person. It plays a role in initiative and judgment. It also contains the motor speech area of Broca which coordinates the process of producing voices between the organs of speech including the larynx, the tongue, and the face. Also, it contains the movement zones which include the frontal eye field. The frontal eye field sustains the organized movement of the eye to the opposite direction. The primary and secondary motor areas that control the willed movements of the muscles. All this show that the frontal area of the frontal lobe, which lies in the forehead, is for directing behavior and shaping up human personality. Any damage to this area would lead to the deterioration in moral criteria and the efficiency of memory and the ability to work out logical problems.
Facets of Scientific Inimitability:
The mystery of this verse mentioned above was only solved recently. No wonder, the Ever-Glorious Qur'an mentioned the area of the forehead as being the lying and the sinful one. Furthermore, the Ever-Glorious Qur'an said that this body part will be hit and held; it is an allusion to the area which monitors the human behavior. So it is the body part to be held accountable for man’s deeds. It is a Divine wisdom that Allah commanded this part to be placed on the ground in prostration so that it will learn how to be honest and upright. Almighty Allah says: “Verily, prayer prevents from al-Fahsha' (i.e. great sins of every kind, unlawful sexual intercourse, etc.) and al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed, etc.) and the remembering (praising, etc.) of (you by) Allah is greater indeed. And Allah knows what you do.” (Al-`Ankabut: 45)
http://etori.tripod.com/forebrain1.html
The word used in the last two ayat above is an-nasiyah which means “the forehead” (3). The forehead in this statement obviously refers to the frontal lobes of the brain which lie behind or posterior to the frontal bone in the forehead. The act of lying is initiated by the mental activities in the frontal lobes, and its instructions are then carried out by the speech organs during the act of lying. Similarly, sins are planned in the frontal lobes before they are carried out by the eyes, hands, sexual organs, et cetera.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/forehead.htm |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 2:39:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
The 3rd eye is the pituitary gland and is not a part of the brain.
The 3rd eye corresponds to the pineal gland, not the pituitary. The pineal gland normally shrinks and clacifies, but multiple MRI studies have shown that it expands toward the frontal cortex in long-term meditators who have developed "third eye" qualities.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 2:44:30 PM
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Yes.. the other "P" gland ... pineal... sorry!!  |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 2:45:39 PM
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thank god with have a doctor in ayp |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 2:56:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
The third eye is a part of the expansion... you really think any system will label it as "lying" and "sinful"? Wouldn't it make more sense to label the "thinking mind" as "lying" and "sinful"? Finally what makes any experiences we have misleading and confusing? The mind! The part of the brain that "thinks".
...
Hi Shanti,
I think that the text that Namath quoted is actually making a reference to the specific dangers of accessing the "astral" and not the mind in general. The shared mystical traditions of Islam/Christianity/Jewish all make the same types of warnings. Buddhism also describes the possible traps and has statements like "if you see a buddha, kill the buddha". If one "sees" spirit beings, it is often to difficult to tell who is helpful and who is not.
Best wishes, Jeff |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 3:04:16 PM
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| The traps are traps as long as the mind is active... what else can trap us Jeff? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 3:08:21 PM
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And I guess you know more (I am not well read as many here are)... so do share the quotes that warn about the 3rd eye.
When you see the Buddha kill the Buddha means, when you have grasped what the Buddha is... let it go because if your mind has got it... it is not it... it is always beyond the mind.
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 3:54:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
And I guess you know more (I am not well read as many here are)... so do share the quotes that warn about the 3rd eye.
When you see the Buddha kill the Buddha means, when you have grasped what the Buddha is... let it go because if your mind has got it... it is not it... it is always beyond the mind.
Dear dear Shanti!!
"Well read" by no means is "wise" You, my dear, are supremely wise. Some just don't need to read.. The rest of us trudge on...
Agree whole-heartedly with your viewpoint - the mind is the devil, not the third eye. And any time we "think" we have it, it isn't it.
Love you |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 4:10:21 PM
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I know what Jeff is saying....Awareness when it comes to that more active ajna than the other chakras...which can drive one into another subtle illusion.
Thank you Jeff,I needed that reminder 
Now,taking into consideration Abi Jahel's character which means in arabic "Father of Ignorance".He was a man full of pride,arrogance,lies,anger and seeking personal glory & wealth.Tried to kill Prophet Mohamad(SAW) few times one of them while he was praying.if I'm not mistaken he was attacked by a wild cat that didn't let him come close to the prophet...I tend towards Shanti's point of view...He's "Abi Jahel" which means zero spiritual / divine knowledge
God Know.
Much thanx everybody...I'm happy for this conversation & different opinions for I can smell Love and care in the air
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Edited by - Namath on Feb 13 2013 4:30:07 PM |
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2013 : 6:35:53 PM
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Maybe I can add some ways to understand such a statement :
The devil has 2 sides : Satan/Lucifer, which are the two sides a unique force. As Satan it is the obstacle that forces the descent into matter, as Lucifer (aka "bringer of light") it rises from matter to spirit.
You find the same with Iblis/Sheytan in the Qur'an.
Lucifer / Iblis is the only angel that refused to bow before God, and therefore obtains his unique freedom, fot the worst as for the best.
He is wearing a luminous emerald in his forehead... |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 04:47:17 AM
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Hi Apatride,
which statement you're referring to?
Iblis/shaytan/devil refer to the same jin being that refused to prostrate to Adam not to Allah.
All beings prostrate to Allah n come back to him willingly or unwillingly :D
he has an emerald on his head....never heard that before.will meditate on this one. He's from fire n very proud and therefore refused to prostrate to Adam who is made of clay.it's said he whispers evil n sinful deeds in the heart but he has no power on believers. He acts through despair when God's people have forever faith.
funny i heard most people start on their spiritual journey out of pain while in my case it was out of love for Allah.I want to see him...n with this spiritual hallucination the pain started over here...i wonder sometimes if I shall drop it all n have faith I'll be back to him when the time is right .that's when he ordains it's time to drop the body.
Salam.
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apatride
New Caledonia
94 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 05:27:33 AM
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Lucifer indeed wears an emerald at forehead.
But Iblis refused to prostrate to Adam, not Allah. My mistake, sorry for this.
Here is a rapid translation from french to english (I hope it remains understandable) of a text I found rather interesting regarding Iblis' (or Lucifer's) relationship to God and man. Hope it's not too much out of the subject
This is the symptomal node , the stone of achopement to read a subversive version of cor'an. (Which as original Christian message is a bomb launched at the face of dogmatism, devotion and all strictly theistic interpretations of revelation). Moreover, it is a subject that few Muslim agree to be addressed.
30. When your Lord said to the angels: "I will establish on earth a khalif. They said:" Will You place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we're here in Te sanctify and glorify You? "- He said:" In truth, I know what you do not know! ".
31. And He taught Adam all the names (of everything), then He placed them before the angels and said: "Tell Me the names of these, if ye are truthful!" (In your claim that you are more deserving that Adam).
32. - They said: "Glory to Thee we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Sure that You are the Knower, the Wise."
33. - He said: "O Adam, inform them of their names," Then when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Do I not say that I know the mysteries of the heavens and the earth , and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal? "
34. And when We said to the angels to prostrate before Adam, they prostrated except Iblis, who refused, swelled with pride and was among the infidels.
And these are the 5 (the number of man) verses that define the handover (absentheism) between God and man.
Because the term khalif was translated by commentators as "the first lieutenant" reducing man to the status of second, faithful servant.
Yet Wadad qadi al wrote an article on the subject capital "the term khalifa in early exegetical literature" or it reveals the five main senses of the traditional exegesis:
-Succession to follow
-Replace, replace
-Replace left when the previous
-Inhabit, cultivate
-Govern, manage, be the king
And the question of the original meaning of khalifa is like a pebble in the shoe of Muslims (the real haunts) and is the closure of the revelation (and openness to the world of man).
The episode is also significant because Iblis refused to prostrate not before God but before man. (And diabolical temptation is therefore to continue to believe that man is subject to God as god Khalif did).
It is this reading which enables enlightened Muslims as Hallaj, rumi, ibn arabi, sheikh mohamed iqbal abdelkader or define their radical vision (and thanks allowing this gift to enclose with the open revelation of the sacred hebraique empty.
Understand that this passage is a real sacred scene of man at odds with an entire Qur'anic text where the human being is often presented as a simple servant of God. We would therefore dealing here with uneanthropologie dynamic or historical in which man is called to go beyond the status of slavery, or to fulfill its deepest sense: the successor was in fact the first perfect servant, whom the master took so much confidence he has left increasingly to act in his place finally free.
This Koranic passage is a theological revolution in many aspects. Firstly, the idea that God can give a successor! Then the angels protest followed the final rebellion of Iblis, the devil. They do not accept the election of Adam because they feel infinitely superior to him, submission to God being perfect - which shows that Adam is, he promised something else ... As confirmed by the turn of events follows: reaction angelic face, God sends Adam to his own omniscience, as establishing co-knowing supreme in the universe. Then he gave the order itself unheard: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam! "Consider the extent of this commandment: that is indeed the God of the Koran, usually so jealous of the exclusive worship him is made, request the holiest of His creatures to worship someone other than himself , and even though it is now!
Iblis will be the only one to refuse to turn away from the Lord, and strangely, it is this same fidelity to the "pure worship" of God that will lead to his expulsion from the heavenly circle of other angels. Because God told him, "Go down from here! You do not have to show you this place. "(VII, 13) Iblis the devil symbolizes it from the man who refuses divine election by awe of his immeasurable character? Exile consecutive cursed be included when the time history which humans need to prepare for one day up to the throne of God. |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 08:30:27 AM
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Hi Apatride,
Thank you for the excellent translations.
Best, Jeff |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 09:54:59 AM
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thanx...interesting text but a bit misleading if u allow me to say.
there are three beings according to koran angels,sons of adam and jin.
Angels never did any rebel...they don't have free will and therefore they can't be sinful....they turn around the throne of Allah repeating his holy sacred name.
On the other hand,jin n Man have free will n are responsible for their intentions n acts.
It's not a secret to any muslim that Man is khalifat Allah.
That being said...the quran describes 7 heavens n no one can access it without 'sultan'.
Haven't seen the first heaven so too early to speak about the upper ones :D
for the servant-Allah relation which reflects what Islam is all about total surrender. Reading Ayat el kursi can give an idea who it's meant by Allah.it's said it contains the greatest name as well.
I feel silly saying what I said since some I have no experience whatsoever neither in the greatest name nor in Allah's heaven.
That's why I say God know :) |
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 11:09:22 AM
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Hi Namath,
This is what I have read... does it sound about right?
* Allah says that He created jinn from a 'flame of fire' (maarij min naar) [Surah 55: 15]. However the relationship of a 'jinn to
fire' is the same as the relationship of a 'man to earth'.
* As Adam is the father of 'mankind', Jaann is the father of 'jinns' [Mukhtaar as Sihaah, p 14]
* There are three types of jinn: one which flies in the air all of the time, another which exists as snakes and dogs, and an
earthbound type which resides in one place or wanders about. [Tabari and Hakim in Mishkaak al Masaabeeh vol 2 p 883]
* Among the jinn which fly are some who eavesdrop on the angels in the lowest heaven. The jinn then convey the information they hear to fortunetellers. If they narrated only what they heard it would be correct, but they add to it and mix it with lies. [Sahih Muslim vol 4 no 5538]
* Allah says, 'Verily, We created man from dried clay, from black putrid mud. And We created the jinn before that from the fire
of a scorching wind' [Surah 15: 26-27]. Ibn Kathir cites a hadith where the Prophet said that jinn, the descendants of jaann, were on earth two thousand years before the creation of Adam. [Tafseer al Quraan al Atheem, vol 1 p 108]
* Al Aaloosse said that Allah's statement, '...among the previous generation of jinn and men that have passed away...' [Surah 46: 18] isused to prove that jinn die, generation after generation, like humans. [Rooh al Maanee vol 26 p 21]
* Allah says, '...And we told the Angels, prostrate yourselves to Adam and they prostrated except Iblees, he refused to be of
those who prostrated.' [Surah 7: 11]. This verse taken alone suggests that Iblees may have been an angel, but as explained by Az Zamakhsharee, the Quranic exegesist, 'When Allah commanded the angels to prostrate to Adam, Iblees was included in the address, even though he was not from the same origin as them, because he resembled them and had become characterized by their deeds. Consequently, he was included inthe address to them and cursed fordisobeying the command'. [Tafseer al Quran al Atheem vol 1 p 117]
* Az Zamakhsharee continues, 'The command included Iblees, even though it was specifically for the angels, because Iblees was in their company and he used to worship Allah, the way they (angels) worshipped Him. So when they were commanded to prostrate to Adam and humble themselves in his honor, it was even moreappropriate for Iblees, who was with them, to humble himself'. [Al Kashaaf an Haqaa at Tanzeel vol 2 p 555]
* The jinns possess free will like human beings; as such they may be divided into two main groups according to their faith, 'Muslims' (i.e. believers) and kuffar (disbelievers). The disbelieving jinn are referred to as Shaytan. The Quran also refers to human beings who become enemies of righteousness as shaytan.
* Allah says, '...will you take him (Iblees) and his children as protestors besides me? And they are enemies to you!..' [Surah 18: 50]. This verse refers to Satan's 'children' - showing that jinns can procreate - but angels, being without gender, do not procreate. [Ahkaam al Jaan pp 199-202]
* Allah says, '...True, there were men among humans who sought refuge from men among the jinn, but they only increased them in folly' [Surah 72: 6]. The usages of 'men' in reference to jinn implies that there must also be women amongst them. [Al Aqwwdah alIslaamiyyah wa Ussuhaa vol 2 p 27].
* Allah says, '...he (Iblees) was one of the jinn..' [Surah 18: 50]. While Hasan al Basri says 'He (Iblees) was the origin of the
jinn as Adam was the origin of mankind' [Jaami al Bayaan vol 1 p 226], a view favoured by Ibn Taymeeyah [Majmoo al Fataawaa vol 4 p 235]; whether or not Iblees was the forefather of all the jinn, as Adam was the forefather of man, has been a subject of debate amongst the Muslim scholars as the meaning of [18:50] implies that Iblees was oneamongst them, and not the first amongst them [Aakan ak Jinn wa ash Shayateen p 18]
Best, Jeff |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 1:36:04 PM
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Hi Jeff,
It's been said Jaann is the father of jin .Among the jin there are those who are submitted to Allah and those who are not.As for devils of ibis , none of them are believers.
"And among us are Muslims [means those in submission to Allah ], and among us are the unjust. And whoever has become Muslim(submitted to Allah) - those have sought out the right course."~Surat Aljin 14
El jin are made from a fire without smoke if it gets in human,it kills him.they are like humans in that they eat ,drink and reproduce but some of them are ether so they don't .But they all live and die like humans.
Iblis/Shaytan/the devil is not an Angel. Angels are made from Light,he's from el jin and made from fire.
Other than what's written in the Quran,I don't give much attention usually.Speaking about Quran,I found some funny translation to English…which makes me believe Quran should only be read in Arabic.
Iblis was addressed with Angel due to his rank which he got from his devotion to Allah …& which he lost due to his pride
"* Allah says, '...True, there were men among humans who sought refuge from men among the jinn, but they only increased them in folly' [Surah 72: 6]. "
that's one of the funny translation I was speaking about
In Quran it's said:
"And there were men from mankind who feared men from the jinn, so they [only] increased them in burden." Surat el jin-6
For as you might know,jin served Sulayman the king but he was no folly but a believer and a man of Allah.
the verse above explains that jin were astonished that we human fear them so some of the mischievous ones abused this human fear
Jin tried listening to the skies on the night the Quran descended on Mohamad (SAW) but out of protection for the authenticity of Quran, this is what happened:
8-And we have sought [to reach] the heaven but found it filled with powerful guards and burning flames.
9-And we used to sit therein in positions for hearing, but whoever listens now will find a burning flame lying in wait for him.
10-And we do not know [therefore] whether evil is intended for those on earth or whether their Lord intends for them a right course.
So in brief, Iblis is from el Jin & made from Fire and he's NOT an Angel who are made of Light.
Jin just like humans,the good and the unjust .
He was very devoted to Allah...but tough luck his pride spoilt it
Love
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 1:39:58 PM
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I'm speaking like AyatuAllah does (Source)...I have no right for this with my humble knowledge in Islam
Please people take what I wrote as a personal interpretation.
that's why I'll add again:
God Know |
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kembolini
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2013 : 3:05:49 PM
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The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought.
Mahatma Gandhi
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2013 : 02:58:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kembolini
The only devils in this world are those running around in our own hearts, and that is where all our battles should be fought.
Mahatma Gandhi
Gandhi...he's truly a Mahatma
This is exactly what I said above kembolini.that's the action of devils...Here's the description in quran which is similar:
In the name of Allah the most Merciful,
Say I came in the refuge of the lord of all mankind
king of all
God of all
From the evil of him who whispers evil in the hearts and slinks away.
Those who whisper in the hearts of mankind…Jinn and men
I know many have problem believing there's something as Jin...But someone like myself who had seen plenty ,can't just take an answer like it's all in the mind.After all everything in this world in the mind.Including you and me this conversation
Yes it's all illusion with respect to Allah (Self) but still they all exist on a relative level.
I truly believe in the verse I mentioned to Jeff with all my heart:
"And there were men from mankind who feared men from the jinn, so they [only] increased them in burden." Surat el jin-6
A year ago,a day or two after i came from Tiru "Ramana Ashram".I woke up to pray at dawn...there was someone with big hair making a sandwich & singing in the kitchen...He almost gave me a heart attack...I ran in one direction & he ran in the other "He was scared as well when he felt I could see him"...But when he saw I'm scared he came back to check if I'm alright cause obviously he meant no harm...
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Edited by - Namath on Feb 15 2013 04:44:15 AM |
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The devil Spot in the brain .
