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 Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
 Liberation vs Enlightenment
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Rinaldo

Italy
47 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  06:39:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
"Liberation appears from removing the illusion of any existing or real self. It is the recognition that there is nothing permanent in the body, only innumerable particles whirling about. The same is true for thoughts, feelings, and mental states of ones consciousness Although experiences might feel real as they occur, they are actually only constantly changing streams of impressions held together by the illusion of being somehow separate and lasting"

"Enlightenment aims for the realization that also the outer world is an illusion, a collective dream created from beings condensed karmas. Removing this second veil means full enlightenment and brings forth all of minds unlimited powers. With that wide and brave motivation, the great voyage to enlightenment for the good of everyone begins, the Bodhisattva Way. In the highest all encompassing view of the Diamond Way, everything is mind."

Does Yogani consider such difference? If yes, where this practice is leading? What is his view abaout world? He see it as a dream?

The second definition remind me Nisargadatta Maharaj words, but are taken from "The Way Things Are: A Living Approach to Buddhism for Today's World."

AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  07:54:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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yogani

USA
5247 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  12:03:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rinaldo:

I don't see much of a distinction between these terms. It is about the experience after all, and not the terminology or defintions.

Yes, the world is illusion (maya), created by identification of our awareness with the mechanisms of perception.

Yet, how our awareness relates to perception is our reality in this moment, so we can accept that and work from where we are (do-able), instead of from where we are not (impossible). We cannot "think" our way from identified awareness to unidentified awareness. This is building mental castles in the air. In AYP, we call it "non-relational self-inquiry," which leads to increased suffering.

So, what to do? Cultivate abiding inner silence (the witness) via meditation, which loosens the identification of our awareness with the machinery of perception. This also refines the neurobiology of perception, so things are seen increasingly as they are -- projections on the screen of our awareness, the illusion you refer to. Then we gradually are seeing through the illusion in our daily life without a big mental effort. It is occurring beyond the mind, in the realm of awareness/witness and its relationship with perception. Then our inquiry will be "relational" and transforming.

What happens then? Life goes on. We live with a greater inclination to serve the whole, which we see increasingly as our own self. We then are in the world but not of the world, engaged as divine flow, stillness in action. It is nothing spectacular. Only a life lived with more purpose in greater peace and harmony.

The business of "bringing forth all of minds unlimited powers" is part of the illusion, a mental stepping stone, a hook to inspire people on the path. In AYP, we promise "ecstatic living." And it is those things. But it is much more, which is found in the less that is more.

Nothing wrong with seeking power and ecstasy through true transcendence with effective practices. It is a self-regulating path that runs ever deeper. But denial of the world is a mental trap. We can only know the true nature of the illusion by becoming it at its source in stillness. Knowledge is not a knowing in the mind. It is becoming all that is, and all that is not.

All the best on your path!

The guru is in you.

PS: For more on this from the AYP point of view, see these lessons:
Evolutionary Stages of Mind: http://www.aypsite.org/327.html
Pitfalls of the Mind: http://www.aypsite.org/329.html
Practices for Moving Beyond the Witness: http://www.aypsite.org/350.html
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Rinaldo

Italy
47 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  2:54:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Yogani :)
i think you gave us an incredible gift, after i found your teachings i could finally feel "at home"...no more searching, no more confused practices.
I still sometimes read buddhist teachings because i see Lamas as good and wise Grandfathers, and with a little more patience i could have found the answer alone without bothering you :D
I found they have a similar practice, they also call that Tantra, where they work with "drops" and "winds" inside the central channel and they consider this to be the fastest way to Enlightenment. I was confused before reading that, because i only know the vipassana practice that instead lead to Liberation.

edit: i thik i made it finally :D
ps: Yogani i want to be completly honest...i sometimes finish my deep meditation feeling confused abaout such a little thing as the pronunciation of I AM, but i didnt want to ask questions about it because i know i should not lose time analysing, so i find myself reading etc to suppress the doubt.
So i know it's not the right topic, but i it's possible i would like to take a chance to ask you directly if you think it's worth replying.
I have in my mind two different I AM pronunciation, with very different effect on quality of vibration and sensations...

my natural pronunciation (i dont sing it like her^^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLd9qRVBmsw) with "A" of american then YAM: they combine in a single word AYAM.

The english pronunciation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8OFdTjwk_w) more like "Eye" and then "am", they remain distinct, and i feel like ping pong effect in my head.
So i'm not sure if i should keep with my natural pronunciation or try to get used to the english one.

Rinaldo


Edited by - Rinaldo on Dec 10 2012 4:39:31 PM
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yogani

USA
5247 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  4:29:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rinaldo:

You may want to check this post, which provides discussion on mantra and links to audio clips for the AYP "I AM" mantra and enhancements: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=12260

And, yes, in time the analyzing will become less. Just meditate and go out and live fully. Your rising inner silence will take care of the rest.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

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Rinaldo

Italy
47 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  4:40:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
ah Yogani you replyed the moment i edited that post again eheh!!^^

ps:I listened your audio, but your pronunciation is by far the most difficult for me, i suppose it's the american one.

Edited by - Rinaldo on Dec 10 2012 4:46:31 PM
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yogani

USA
5247 Posts

Posted - Dec 10 2012 :  4:51:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rinaldo:

Use pronunciation that is comfortable for you. Pronunciation will change while going inward to stillness anyway, so not to worry about it. Begin your meditation comfortably and let it go, using the procedure for returning to the mantra comfortably also. Very easy...

The guru is in you.

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