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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 30 2006 : 3:37:59 PM
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SHWETA we all love you and you can never be alone we wont let you.
Its not the practices you need to cut down on you need to try to constrain your Bhakti a little that can be overdone as well you know.
Its probably the hardest thing in the world but try to be easy on yourself as well your not a bad person you seem to have endless love.
Very strong emotions produce very strong Bhakti and very strong Bhakti produces very strong emotions and so on and so on, and then everything gets out of control. Its not your flashes of anger and frustration that is depressing you its your lack of control of them.
Try and chill 
Blessings and love Richard
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2006 : 4:56:39 PM
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Great replies, Alexander and Richard. I especially love this:
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander
in my opinion the spiritual path is much about losing yourself completely, losing your personality and everything you consider to be you. that's our fight. the urer we get, the more craviong there is inside.
It doesn't get more honest than that! Thanks, Alex. We're all in this together, Shweta.
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ranger
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2006 : 5:50:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Does this ever get better? This longing.. does it ever go away?
All my life I have been looking for something or someone to fill a void in me.. but I have realized there is nothing that I know of, that can fill this void... nothing. And now I don't know what else to do. The hardest part is.. I don't know where to turn for comfort.. everywhere I read.. it says you have to turn into yourself.. therein lies true happiness.. I have no peace inside.. just a constant craving for something.. don't know what. I turn here for help.. but the relief is short lived... I turn to my family.. but they don't understand what I am talking about.. they are scared.. and just laugh it off.. I turn to God.. but there is never any reply... I turn within and the longing gets stronger..
Its like fighting a constant battle within.. with no relief in sight.. If I self pace any more.. it will be like giving up my practice altogether.. which may not be a bad idea.. maybe I am not ready for this yet...
You've just described my inner life in two paragraphs while I've filled up journals over the years trying to get a handle on it. A longing kind of like a constant low grade fever that occasionally flares up, it's driven most of the choices I've made in this life.
Over the last year it's been acute, centered around some grief issues I thought were finished 20 years ago but most definately were not. There were times when any of the AYP practices were too much, and I fell back on something else I'd stumbled upon a little earlier.
I've spent more than 25 years as an energetic, "storming heaven," kind of guy, and sometimes I do wonder just how much difference it's really made. I do know that one time I went on a personal retreat to an Abbey in northern California. There was a little meditation chapel with Zen style benches and cushions and I just plunked myself down, and was so burned out on techniques that I simply watched the shadows grow as dusk turned to night, and listened to the whistles of passing freight trains. Prayed just a little and something clicked and right there was more silence and more of a sense of Presence than I'd had in most of a quarter century more "agressive" practices.
Real surrender is very difficult, but that experience got me very interested in Shikantaza as well as some of the modes of Christian contemplation, the common thread being in my mind, something like this question: Is the wave reallygoing to discover it's nature as ocean through constant restless striving? More on that later. Meanwhile, a Rumi poem for you:
quote:
LOVE DOGS
One night a man was crying, Allah! Allah!
His lips grew sweet with the praising, until a cynic said,
"So! I have heard you calling out, but have you ever gotten any response?"
The man had no answer to that.
He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep.
He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls,
in a thick green foliage. "Why did you stop praising?"
"Because I've never heard anything back."
"This longing you express is the return message."
The grief you cry out from
draws you toward union.
Your pure sadness
that wants help
is the secret cup.
Listen to the moan of a dog for it's master.
That whining is the connection.
There are love dogs
no one knows the names of.
Give your life
to be one of them.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2006 : 7:14:00 PM
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Hi Shweta
Your are getting some great advice and here is my offering.
Here is something I do when I feel like that.
I decide to live my day in its normal routine, whatever that will be on that day. I then decide or convince myself that I am going to die in my sleep that night.
So when I am with my children it is my last day with them, the same with my partner. When I look at a beautiful flower it takes on a new freshness because after today I will never see a flower again.
When I drive down the road I smile at people - a last smile. Continue the day like this and enjoy yourself.
Yes its a mental trick to bring you into the fresh delightful moment, with your children, your husband, the flowers, the trees, your friends. This is God and this is your longing.
my 2 cents |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 08:21:44 AM
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Hi Shanti:
Longing is a key part of the path -- without longing there would be no path. And the further we go on the path, the more longing there is. What is it?
Longing and the inner guru are one and the same. Our longing for completeness is the divine longing for expression. It is sacred.
In AYP we say, "Pace bhakti as necessary." How do we do that? The most obvious way is to do "other things." Work in the garden. Take walks. Help another. Watch life ... and see that it is who we are.
There is something going on underneath, something wanting to come out. Meg hit on it -- ultimately, longing is not about adding something, but about giving something away, about expressing from within, whether it be in our art, or our service. It is both. There is a close connection between bhakti and karma yoga. Service as divine outflow is the final destination of surrender. That is why the AYP book slated for next year on Bhakti Yoga has Karma Yoga in the title also. What we long to know and be, longs to know and be from within us. It is a process of unfoldment from within -- it is our purification and opening ... our union.
Here is another Rumi quote (thank you for the beautiful one above, Ranger) that captures it. It was posted here in the forum last year and is copied again:
"I have lived on the lip of insanity,
wanting to know reasons,
knocking on a door.
It opens.
I've been knocking from the inside!" ~Rumi
If you have great longing, you are blessed. Reading some Rumi can help. He is the master of longing and surrender. See here for more. Keep refreshing that page for more quotes.
The guru is in you.
PS -- "You are broken-hearted too, you shall find cure in love;
If you listen to me and pursue this ailment." ~Rumi
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Hunter
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 11:43:32 AM
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| Thank you for that post Yogani. What a great relief! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 11:51:23 AM
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Thanks Ether. I don't think I repress my anger.. my reactions towards anger have changed.. do you think not reacting to it is in a way repressing it? What I do seem to ignore is, the slight breeze of depression that pops up now and then... and that is what I have been sacred of all along... the fact that I don't let that feeling get out and take over me.. so when I was off guard this time.. it took over and wont let got... that is what I am going through now... So I am just letting it get me as low as it can take me.. good idea or not... not sure.. but other than watching it take over me.. I don't think there is anything else I can do...
Alexander, Wolfgang, Richard, Meg, Ranger, Louis, Yogani... thank you so much.
You know Meg and Yogani, you maybe right... I have been wanting to go back to my art (that I gave up on after the kids were born)... I have been wanting to go volunteer someplace and make myself useful.. but don't seem to have the support or time for either.. maybe once the kids go back to school I will get into something...
Wolfgang.. Thank you ...
Alexander, are you sure you are 17? What lovely words.. Thank you.
Ranger that was a beautiful poem by Rumi. Thank you for your kind words.
Yogani, I read that quote by Rumi before.. it did not mean much then.. today it has a meaning..
Longing and the inner guru are one and the same. Our longing for completeness is the divine longing for expression. It is sacred.
-ultimately, longing is not about adding something, but about giving something away, about expressing from within -Thank You Yogani... I did need to hear that.
In AYP we say, "Pace bhakti as necessary." How do we do that? The most obvious way is to do "other things." Work in the garden. Take walks. Help another. Watch life ... and see that it is who we are... at this point... nothing takes my mind off this longing.. It's not that I don't work in my garden.. or I am alone all day.. I find myself laughing and talking with my friends, family, colleagues and neighbors, and even in the midst of it all.. the emptiness in my heart seems to stay there, all the time... the longing for something does not go away..
my life seems to lack me...
Richard, I don't even think of God anymore.. the more I think of God.. the more frustrated I get.. so I don't know how else to self pace bhakti.. I involve myself in as many things as I can.. but my longing does not go away.. like Ranger said.. it is a constant fever that flares up at times.
Louis, I live every day as if it were my last.. I picked on this after I started my AYP practice and realized I had missed out on my children due to depression.. maybe that is what I have to self pace on.. maybe I need to put some distance between my life and "me".. I need to find "me" in my life... everything is always about everyone else...
For now though I just have to get over this phase...
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Edited by - Shanti on Aug 01 2006 09:43:53 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 1:26:37 PM
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What is it that we're really after, anyway? Happiness? It's overrated, or so I hear. Can we ever be truly happy? The best we can hope for are moments of happiness, and when they happen we should roll around in them like a dog on a dead fish, because they're always fleeting. Soak 'em up when they happen, I say! I'm always suspicious of a person who claims to be 'happy'. Is she on antidepressants? Does he not read the newspaper? I'm not a pessimist - I'm an eternal optimist - and that's why I believe that 'happiness' isn't worth pursuing. It's the carrot on the stick. It's inner peace that we want. Because the events of life and the chemicals in our brains will continue to rise and fall, but when you can find a stillness in the midst of it all, you'll have found your oasis of peace.
To have your inner stillness, to have an outlet through which you express your heart's longing, and to have an occasional brush with happiness - this may be as good as it gets. Can't wait for your bhakti book, Yogani. |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 10:43:33 PM
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Hi Shanti,
I thought I was made of strong stuff... and your post almost drew a tear...  . I felt sorry for myself.
I hope I have your permission to use your post as lines of my pining heroine in the classic script that I have forever intended to write.
BTW, I was miserable for two years when I shut out my ususal life and dedicated everything to Yoga. Now that I'm back to normal work, I'm peaceful (and I thought I hated work). And can connect better with the path. Get back to your art pronto.
But when I lose my agony
In the humdrum
for sweetness I long
of the pain that tells
me who I am |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 09:45:50 AM
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quote:
But when I lose my agony
In the humdrum
for sweetness I long
of the pain that tells
me who I am
Thanks Sadhak..
sorry to have almost made you cry...
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Edited by - Shanti on Aug 01 2006 09:47:20 AM |
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yogaguy
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 11:21:39 AM
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Anger is an emotion, the organs of perception create our feelings and emotions. For instance an empty stomach sends a signal to the brain and the feeling of hunger occurs or if you trigger the appropriate stored memory of being hungry sometime in your past maybe by seeing something you like much a sort of artificial hunger created by the mind will occur and we over eat for enjoyment. Sexual feelings and any other physical feelings or desires work in much the same manner. Emotions are heart felt feelings, in other words all feelings created by the organs of perception including the mind like lust,anger, fear etc are sensed by the heart and seen or felt by the mind as lust, anger, fear etc in which case the mind makes a mental effort to quench, subue or satisfy this heart felt emotion. Most of us only know how to physicaly try and respond to these feelings by the organs of perception which in most cases are triggered my a stored memory over and over again. If a deep enough meditation is induced one can release ones mind in similar degree to the meditation from these stored memories. For further assistance though, I recommend using what caused this imbalance in the first place your physical being and its organs of perception. Anger is a heated feeling sensed by the heart and triggered by an actual occurance or stored memory of such occurance induced by the brain, in which case we may call the person a hot head :) The breath carries the energy or prana to the organs of the body as needed or as we "think" we may need it. Thoughts of anger originate from signals sent by the lower organs of perception at or below the stomach region thus the prana or breath intensifies in this region and something similar to the fire breath is induced to fan this region of the body. This breath is noted and can physicaly be observed by the faster pace movement of breath in the adominal area and the absence of a slower paced expansion of breath in the upper chest region. With this imbalance of breath you would find it very difficult to sleep or focus your mind. If you find it impossible to bring balance using the mind to stop these thoughts then go to the source and the object of your problem. I recomend about at least 20 to 30 minutes of yoga postures excluding back bends which tend to excite the organs of perception so that the physical body can gain control of the breath thus flow of prana to the organs of perception. What ever standing poses you choose finish with uttanasana or prassaritta padottanasana. These forward bends tend to squeeze the breath away from the adominal area and make it more expansive in the chest region which is a cooler slower paced breath. A cooler or slower paced breath means a cooler slower paced mind, get it. You are gaining control of your mind using your physical body! Now lie on your back on the floor with your arms in cactus position resting beside you, bring your feet to the floor and knees together and rotate your knees from side to side turning your head to gaze in the opposite side of the body from which the knees have been turned to. Do this three times each way alowing your knees to sink closer and closer to the floor with out alowing your opposite shoulder to leave the floor. Finish by bringing your knees to center and huging them tightly towards your chest while keeping your head on the floor. Once the knees are as close to the chest as they can be then "gently" raise your read to your knees. Finally finish with a pose called Viparita Karani in which you sit next to a wall side ways on some blankets that have been rolled about 4" thick and 8" to 12" accross parallel with the wall and placed about 8" from the wall. Sit side ways to the wall with the closest edge of the blanket to the wall under your tail bone now turn to lie down with your head away from the wall windmilling your legs and feet vertically up the wall to rest against the wall while your shoulders and head come to rest on the floor comfortably. Let your arms lie comfortable palms up. Lie in this position for about 5 to ten minutes with your eyes closed or covered with an eye bag if they are to active. This pose is compared to a water fall and lake the legs being the water fall and the adominal region being the calm lake. Allow your self to relax releasing all tension in your spine allowing it to sink into the floor and blanket beneath you. Take notice of the eveneness and speed of the breath as it flows, regulated by this pose, in and out.
I do hope you try this I promise it will help you to have some control over your breath thus mind and sleep.
Wishing you peace of mind and happiness, Yogaguy |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 12:12:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
sorry to have almost made you cry...
Almost is as good as it gets for me Shanti. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 12:47:04 PM
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quote:
Almost is as good as it gets for me Shanti...
Hey Sadhak, don't misunderstand.. I don't want to make anyone cry or almost cry.. That is why I am sorry... no one should have to cry because of me.. If you know what I mean...
Thanks Yogaguy.. I do all of the ones you have mentioned above.. except Viparita Karani.. will add it to my routine.. |
Edited by - Shanti on Aug 01 2006 3:36:39 PM |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2006 : 5:34:14 PM
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Hi sweet Shanti,
I have been working non-stop for the last month and not able to log on as much as I've wanted so I missed your post here 'till now.
Thanks for sharing your true feelings like that and thanks to everyone for sharing your guidance and support... you've all helped me through helping Shanti. But isn't that the joy of this forum!
For me, I have found since I started this thread, I am being lighter on myself.... not expecting so much from myself. I suppose in a way it has been self-pacing.... I know I'm on my path but I'm trying to relax into it and calm the insistent yearning inside myself for the Divine. The fact that I've been working so hard this last month has helped.
Something you might contemplate Shanti, is saying a prayer and asking God to answer you in a clear understandable way within a certain time period. Sometimes you have to repeat it earnestly for a little bit but this has always worked for me...
I send you all good thoughts and love and light.
Babaly
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2006 : 03:19:11 AM
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Since this was a housecleaning post, I thought to add my query here instead of creating a new one.
I find extreme pain in bones and muscles (right hand, leg) on a continuous basis, which begins without apparent reason. Bone and muscular structure gets out of sync easily, and this happens often while doing yoga. OK, so it is purification. I've waited for three weeks now.. cut back (OK, only a little, I can't bear to cut back more than I have. Oh alright, I did add Samyama. If you insist I'll cut back on that too). Now I'm getting a little mad at it and myself. Impatient (I'm not able to use my right hand for anything much.. even keying in this stuff is pretty painful). I'm only doing 10 mins spinal P with siddhasana, moolbandh , 20 mins i am, about 4 mins samyama followed by 3 mins or so of blessings. I rest 10 mins after. I'll cut back if that's what has to be done, but I'm not happy about it... bcoz whichever part I look at seems OK.  I'm sick of cutting back!!! (I'm only throwing a tantrum here). What am I, a room stuffed to the gills with filth? (Maybe that's what I needed to say, the zing of the anger in me is simmering down a bit). |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2006 : 11:49:34 PM
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Ha ha, I found the origin... happened to go back to a place yesterday that I'd gone a month back, and remembered that I'd been pulled up onto the roof by my right hand. And that was the origin. Nothing to do with the practices. No cut back. Only oiling the parts needed.
(Sadhak throws up a rope ladder to the roof top, and shimmies up, pulling the ladder up after her, sits on the edge of the roof on her haunches and blinks at everybody interestedly, as the forum looks on in disbelief). |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2007 : 01:01:14 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Nathan
47 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2011 : 12:06:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Please let us know what practices you're doing, and for how long. Anger, irritation, frustration, all these high-friction reactions generally are symptoms of overdoing. And my intuition tells me that's the case (though my intuition's not always right).
This path does NOT rile you up and put you in conflict with your world and relationships...unless you're doing something wrong. Such symptoms are never EVER a positive sign. Rather, they are a big fat red-lined warning that you need to back off and do less. Read Yogani's many lessons on self-pacing, which make this quite clear.
I know this was written quite a while ago, but I found myself in disagreement. I agree that if one is having negative symptoms, they should consider scaling back, but at the same time spiritual transformation often seems to require the experiencing of difficult symptoms, at least at times.
Also, many of the experienced practitioners here (Yogani included, I think) have said that these symptoms are a positive sign of purification going on.
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Edited by - Nathan on Apr 11 2011 10:13:06 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2011 : 12:29:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
Also, many of the experienced practitioners here (Yogani included, I think) have said that these symptoms are a positive sign of purification going on.
Yes, until they begin to weigh on us to the point of keeping us from daily practices and normal functioning in life. Hopefully we will be self-pacing before then.
Each practitioner will develop their own relationship with the dynamics of purification and opening, according to their needs.
The guru is in you.
PS: It is good to clean the house, but not so good to choke on too much dust. 
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Housecleaning?
