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Here and Now
Spain
9 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 07 2012 : 11:15:50 AM
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Hello everyone,
This is my first post in the AYP community, although I have been readings the forums for a while now. What a wealth of useful information. I feel very grateful to Yogani and all of you for making this community happen.
After maybe 2 years of devouring spiritual information, and a year of on an off practice, my routine has been finally stabling out. What I am discovering feels so True and important that I am quitting my job in one month, feeling the need to dedicate myself fully (for a while, while I have savings to burn) to furthering my practice and understanding free from unnecessary distractions. This is pretty big for my identity, as its my first major disruption in a stellar yet meaningless career in business. In fact, I am highly doubting any future work not directly tailored to serving the need of others. The second aspect of this time off is to listen deeply to myself to try and find a professional vocation, something that I enjoy and that is directly useful for humanity. So I'm 31, and in a month's time I will decide on a calm destination (maybe a few months to build practice and inner silence in a monastery, then back to the normal world to practice in more realistic -for me- conditions)
My question is, what could an optimal day of practice look-like? I really want to make the best use of my free time possible. On the one hand, I am trying to minimize practices, in order to not become too dependent on experiences that are produced by specific practices; on the other hand, I definitely need to cultivate more inner silence to allow for the relational inquiry of the "do nothing" approach" to actually work and not make me feel really small/lost, which is what has been happening lately. In the forums you suggest a second routine in the morning after having completed the first morning routine. Is this the "as far as anyone should go" stance, or is it more of a safe prescription for large masses of unknown people. With correct self-pacing and responsibility, and within the context of a sabbatical period, is there more that I could do? I assume that the rest of the day outside practices will be lived in Mindfulness/Self-Inquiry, and a lot of grounding activity. I recently attended a 7 day silent retreat with Adyashanti - 5-6 sittings a day- and the inner silence inside really grew in me by day 7. Is this something I could add on a more frequent basis -eg 1 week of silence per month, maybe try a full month every now and again?
I would love to hear your opinions.
Thank you very much,
Warm wishes, and greetings from Madrid |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2012 : 12:58:03 PM
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Hi Here and Now:
Happy to hear you are finding the AYP writings helpful on your path. Regarding quitting your job and attempting to go full time on your spiritual path, that is a very individual thing. The AYP system is designed for those who are living an active life in the world, and taking the practices into a long term retreat situation without the kind of structure discussed in the AYP Retreats book will be something of an experiment. It is suggested to use that book as a general guide. There is more in it on retreat mode practice than I can put in a forum post. There can be some risk of imbalance if there is too much practice and not enough activity to ground the results, so maybe better to do some grounding activity (physical labor, chopping wood, carrying water, active service for others, etc.) rather than self-inquiry or reading spiritual books all day long. You will know what to do.
Be sure to "self-pace" your practices according to your experiences, and keep in mind that there can be delayed reactions to overdoing practices. So it is good to add on slowly, allowing time for the results to be smoothly assimilated into the daily routine. That is especially true when considering extending practice times or the number of sessions per day beyond the guidelines in the AYP lessons and books.
If you can get to an AYP retreat, even a short one, you can develop a better feel for the AYP practices with additional sessions in retreat mode, and coming back out into the world, which has been an eye-opener for many. There is one coming up in the UK in December and additional ones are popping up throughout the year. See here for the ones that are currently being publicized: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=9035
You can also find links to feedback on past retreats at the bottom of that page.
Not sure what practices you were doing at the Adyashanti retreat. If it was AYP deep meditation, etc., then you will already have a feel for practice in retreat mode from that. You are the best one to decide what you will do with practices in a solo/recluse/monastery type of situation. While longer structured AYP retreats are intended for the future, we have not been in a position yet to have any lasting more than one week. All in good time. We are always looking for leaders with sufficient experience and desire to run such ongoing events.
You are wise to call the change you are making a "sabbatical," meaning you are keeping the door open to come back to the active world at some point. Perhaps you could keep the door open at your old job too for later on, just in case. There is no place where spiritual growth will not occur with daily practices in the picture, even in the bustling business world. Perhaps especially in the business world, where expanding awareness is most needed, and greatly tested and grounded. It is a good laboratory for stabilizing spiritual progress from daily practices, as is being in a family situation with responsibilities. Not saying it has to be one thing or the other. Just not excluding any lifestyle. You will find what it is for you -- likely helping others in some way, as you suggested. That is taking the individual perspective and expanding it to include others, and eventually everyone. Ultimately it comes to that, as we come to see ourselves in everyone. All in good time. That's why I am doing the AYP work at this late stage of life, so as many as possible can have an opportunity to unfold the truth within themselves in their own way. That is not limited to any segment of society, profession, culture, race or creed. Wherever there are human beings, there are the inner doorways to the infinite, in everyone, even in the corporate board room and the halls of government. Sooner or later, everyone will know their deepest possibilities ... all in good time.
There is no doubt you will find your way. Just keep walking, following your heart (bhakti) in these matters, while keeping your common sense involved. The path is a partnership between heart, mind and spirit. Be sure to self-pace as necessary. Rome was not built in a day. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Here and Now
Spain
9 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2012 : 11:53:47 AM
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Hello Yogani,
That was amazing of you to have written me such an extensive post. Thank you very much.
I think I get the basic message:
1) True spirituality is ubiquitous and advancement does not require specific environments to develop, just bhakti and correct practice
2) I tend to think in an extreme "all or nothing" way, and this may not be the most suitable method to ensuring a long-term sustained practice, especially given the overload effects that may come with a lag. I'll take some time off to develop this practice and nurture my bhakti further in a balanced way, but mostly just to get in touch with myself and see what feels authentic and right work-wise, something I may not have given myself a chance to do since I was 17. But eventually I will go back to normal life both to make a living and to ensure a truly balanced spiritual development instead of a flakey practice that would only work in the context of a monastery.
3) I am my own guru, I should move forward, no need to plan too far ahead and make great mental constructions, just make sure that I am listening and being attentive to my heart.
If by the way anyone else have views on this subject, it will to hear from you!
Warmest regards from Madrid |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2012 : 5:06:26 PM
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Hi Here and Now,
It's very nice to hear of your experiences. How lucky you are to have gone on retreat with Adya, he's a great guy (at least, I think so from watching him and listening online).
I too aim to quit the job, or at least ratchet it down to part-time so I have more time for silence, meditation, inquiry, and selfless service. Perhaps to try monastic life, or a less structured spiritual life with ample time for devotion and practices. It's not far off for me, I've been planning and longing to do this since I was 19 (I'm now 27), and gradually I've been working towards accomplishing some material goals which would make spending a long time (I aim to do 2 to 5 years) in this type of life practical (affordable) for me, without having to become a financial burden on others, or entirely jeopardizing a reasonably secure financial future.
I've almost reached my goal, perhaps another 2 or 3 years, when I'm around your age, and the plan will be fully accomplished.
I can't offer a great deal of advice, I just wanted to share since our situations are similar. I think it worth mentioning that having practiced AYP twice daily since sometime in 2009, AYP is a very powerful system, and far easier to overload than any other system I've encountered. So be careful! I know the type of meditation adya prescribed, it's much more awareness and self-inquiry focussed, and almost impossible to overload on.
"Less is more" truly can apply to AYP, on the other hand.
Love,
Josh |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2012 : 03:09:05 AM
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frankly i do not see the need to quit my job ...nor do i want to lead a monastic life
reducing work hours is a good idea...but staying engaged is very important....selfless work too is very fullfiling,it is the only thing that i find satsfiying but i do it while keeping my regular job
in the past i had phases where i wanted to leave it all behind and dedicate my time 100% for the spiritual journey....i went to retreats and ashrams for several months,for years i was extremly commited to sitting practices,asanas,pranayama,reading of spiritual books...you name it.....but now the story is different (and it is a story! )...the spiritual enfoldemnt happens Here and Now  in the exact circumstancess you are in ..even when they seem not so encouraging!
i dont seek to find more time for spiritual practices...i dont seek to leave my job...i dont seek to gather enough money to have an early retirement and dedicate myself fully to spirituality....i stopped seeking...just adapting to whatever is happening...and u know what?what is hapening is exactly what i need to grow!
but maybe this is what u need to go through to find out for yourself...anyway u will find out...things will happen exactly as they should
my 2 cents
Love
maheswari |
Edited by - maheswari on Nov 09 2012 03:24:30 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2012 : 4:33:35 PM
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I agree Maheswari, not everyone needs to or should quit their jobs. In fact, it's often great to remain in your present circumstances, life is the truly the greatest guru . I'm glad I didn't jump at some sort of 'externalized spiritual pursuit' when it was premature.
But my view on this - you just do whatever you feel called to do. There's no better or worse about living as a hermit, or being a hyper engaged householder. It depends what fits the person. Ramana ran away from home to Arunachala and refused to ever come back or enter the family life he had before. Similarly Paramahansa Yogananda ran away several times before he finally got let out of conventional life to learn full-time with his guru! Adyashanti spent 15 years in a Zen monastery.
On the other hand, there are many great lights who were committed householders - Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon for example.
But you can't really be 'one size fits all' about it. For those who feel deeply moved towards living part of their life in retreat, or a monastic lifestyle, this is valid. For those who don't, this is also valid.
It's a case of where we each fit into the grand scheme of things, and the only way anyone can know an answer to that is by listening to their own heart. There's no one prescription that applies to all of us. I've felt the call to this inside me since I was very young. I can intuitively feel much of how the future of this body/mind will play out, and for me, I simply have a strong intuitive sense that entry to a somewhat alternative monastic type of lifestyle is part of my future at some point and the right thing. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2012 : 5:40:53 PM
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It's true that you don't need to leave your job and the worldly life in order to make spiritual/yogic progress. But if you're drawn to that sort of lifestyle for a time, I can completely relate.
The first few years of my AYP practice, I was blessed to have understanding family and friends that enabled me to live a life of relative solitude as I went within. I had periods of unemployment, but also worked during much of the time. I would meditate in the morning before work, come home afterwards and meditate again, spend a lot of time in contemplation and reading scripture, and everyone in my life gave me the space to do that.
You will find your own way, so I will simply share my own experience and what I would do if I found myself unemployed at this point in time.
Firstly, I would dramatically simplify my lifestyle and reduce my social obligations. Eat a more natural, simpler diet (cut out processed foods, eat out less, etc.). Don't go out as much to movies, concerts, bars, parties, whatever. Cut down on T.V., movies, internet.
It helps to tell your friends and loved ones of your desire to socialize less and go within. If they truly care, they will understand. Telling them will cause them to look at you differently, assume less about you, and make it easier for you to decline their social invitations without offending them.
I would highly recommend adding an element of selfless service, if you don't already, such as serving meals to homeless people, helping the elderly, spending time with sick children, etc. That is good karma and bhakti yoga, and I can't stress how fulfilling it is to engage in such service.
I would occasionally fast for a few days. I would do a solo retreat for a weekend or extended period of time. I would try to find a church, temple, or whatever you are drawn to, to spend some time in worship, if that appeals to you.
That's all that comes to mind at the moment, but I'll post again if something else arises.
Best wishes. You are fortunate to have the ability to live a more ascetic life for a time. Use it well
Namaste |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 13 2012 : 7:10:17 PM
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There are two distinct modes of life: Monastic, or inward and god-centered, and Householder, or outward and human-centered. It is usually assumed that the monastic mode would always be faster, but this is not the case. One is born in their life either a householder or a recluse, and whichever is the mode of your birth should become the mode of one's life. A Householder trying to live as a monk will fail miserably and be unhappy, even in service to god! A monk trying to live the Householder life will likewise not make rapid spiritual progress. It is one basic component of dharma. It's the one thing you must get right! After that, do what your family does--family dharma is not emphasized much in the West, but I do know that my family dharma is teaching--and we've ALL been teachers for generations--so much so that several generations back, our name was "Schulhoffer", meaning Schoolteacher. So for me, my work in the classroom for 35 years WAS a spiritual practice, actually my most important one for many years! However, for the devoted householder, some time in retreat is very helpful, very important in many ways. I was fortunate enough to have spent 2 years in retreat (with my wife!), from age 22-24, and to this day, 37 years later, it remains a defining experience in my life. So search your heart for the prime calling--householder or recluse...?
Namaste,
Michael |
Edited by - mikkiji on Nov 13 2012 7:16:03 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2012 : 01:55:07 AM
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quote:
One is born in their life either a householder or a recluse, and whichever is the mode of your birth should become the mode of one's life
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2012 : 08:44:31 AM
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Hi Mikkiji
Only people who have this nagging dilemma of choosing between monastic and householder life come here for suggestion. How does one know it? I consider myself a borderline where I could bond well with someone who has atleast some interest in spiritual life. Or I can spend time in a society but with a good dose of time spent in solitude(retreats ranging from 10 day to 1 month once in a year). But the current society and relations(marital) does not endorse such behaviours as ethical. I have read somewhere that Yogani was self-employed for the first ten years since he started his yogic practices. That can be another possibility if we have a supporting environment. Otherwise circumstances can go really bad - I mean most of the time we might be misunderstood!
In my country, the case is different sadly. Most of the marriages are "arranged" and boys rarely marry someone whom they already have formed a good relationship already. I see both the pros and cons of marital life in that we come face to face with our karmic persona's and get a chance to inevitably address them. Whereas in a total monastic setting, our darker shadow can remain dormant and we may not make much progress. Whereas the burden of family life can possibly drown us off in karma unless we are very determined to break the viscious cycle of material existence.
"Am I strong enough to make it? " comes always to my mind when I think of marriage.
Personally I would prefer a monastic life with a lot of responsibilities to ground our spiritual efforts/practices. That's what great masters did to their disciples. They made them do karma yoga for very many years until discplined enough for long spiritual retreats in solitude.
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2012 : 08:46:28 AM
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| Pardon my English. I am not a native English speaker. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2012 : 11:43:39 AM
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Chitananda,
Your English is fine, better than many native speakers, so no worries! I think you feel "borderline" because you have yet to find where you belong in this spectrum. I absolutely KNEW myself to be a householder from youth--I wanted to marry by the time I was perhaps 14 years old and would imagine how happy married life would be, how satisfied I would be raising children. And yet, I also always knew myself to be a Spiritual Seeker! I also always assumed, because both desires were so strong and pure within, that it therefore must be possible to do both. And so I did--and my dual parallel tendencies proved to function like the two wheels on a bicycle. There could be no progress without both wheels. So it's not about having to choose EITHER the purely spiritual path OR the householder's material path, because they can coexist on many levels IF that is your dharma. One needn't be "strong enough to make it" in a marriage IF it's the right thing. In fact, after my wife of 34 years passed from this life, I thought just the same thing about remaining single--I knew quickly that I was, in fact, NOT strong enough to make it without a wife! However, neither am I strong enough to make it without my spiritual practices. I need both for my spiritual progress to remain balanced, for my very person-hood to be centered and whole.
Not all 'great masters' have been reclusive monks. Lahiri Mahasaya, who was the guru of Yukteswar Giri, who was the guru of Yogananda, was an Indian holy man who was a householder; marrying, raising a family, and working as an accountant. He lived his entire life with his family rather than in a temple or monastery. Credited with rediscovering the lost practice of Kriya Yoga, Lahiri taught that if one is earning an honest living, then there is no need to alter one's external life in order to become aware of God's presence. It was extremely rare for him to advise worldly renunciation by becoming a monk. Instead, he advised marriage for most of his disciples, along with Yoga practices.
So it is all about balance and harmony. I became a school teacher, because that is my family dharma, but also because it gave me my summer months off to go on retreats of several weeks while providing a comfortable enough lifestyle to not be worried about putting bread on the table. I was a householder with an overwhelming focus on my spiritual life--because my entire life became my spiritual life! My work and my family have been part and parcel of my spiritual development--my Bhakti practices have been devotion to wife and children, while my Karma practice was my teaching. See--balance and harmony. One can tell when it is right when one feels balanced and harmonious. Unhappy or unfulfilled people, whether celibate in ashram or married and working in the world, have not yet achieved the balance and harmony of their true path. It happens by intuition, trial and error and self-inquiry. Mistakes are always part of the path, as long as we learn their lessons and correct them in time.
And remember that life always changes. I remember my guru, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, telling a group of us younger students many decades ago that life for us would have three phases. He told us then, as students, that we were just beginning on our spiritual path and it was good that we were with him full time, not in the outside world, but focused only on discipline, devotion, learning and practice. But then, he said we would (or SHOULD) leave and go out into the world, get jobs, raise a family, enjoy the rewards of the householder--as long as we held fast to the knowledge and practices he taught us. Then, later in life, after children were raised and career was over, we could (or SHOULD!) return more fully to the spiritual path to finish what we'd begun as young people. Now that I am in my 60s and have retired, I finally understand this. I have time, inclination and no distracting responsibilities, so my spiritual path once again is the focus. Just remember that those 40 or so years spent as a fully engaged householder are not a waste of time (spiritually speaking), but a proper path for that phase of life--IF you live your life in a balanced, harmonious and conscious way. Then wife and children are the flowers of Bhakti, successful career the blossom of Karma, and blissful householding the royal path to fulfillment! The only danger of this is that we easily get distracted--new cars, bigger house, more payments, too many THINGS, too much time paying for those things, not enough time spent in silence. So my motto as householder these many years has always been, "It is better to want what you have than to have what you want."
Namaste,
Michael |
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2012 : 3:49:56 PM
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Thank you for the detailed message. I am happy that you were able to understand what I wished to convey. Actually I resonate with your thoughts on Lahiri Mahasaya and the current injunction for spiritual seekers to get married. Many masters advise that because it provides a great platform to confront one's own karma squarely.
Last three years since the blossoming of spiritual awareness, I enjoyed states of bliss and stillness not accessible through senses. When compared to sensory stimulation, they seemed a finer and pleasant abiding. May be this one-sided view, causes me to be less inclined to wedding ties. There's also an unconscious "been this and done that" several times that intrudes the mind. :-( It is better to let them all go. :-) I also have this fear of sustaining a family given my moody temperament. At one time, I feel like socializing and it is second nature. But I also require this dose of solitude and self-withdrawal which is not fully understood by those around me.
But I know that it's not going to be a sannyasi mode of life this time. Probably I might attract someone to share the divine love that I secretly cherish in the meditative absorptions. Things are fuzzy and I never imagined a wedded life but a simple life in caves once 50+ . Funny mental images for the future! I have no idea what's in store between this time!
"my Bhakti practices have been devotion to wife and children, while my Karma practice was my teaching"
Yes, the bitter truth is : the gold needs to be burnt in furnace till it's refined. It might denigrate the ego but it's well worth the effort.
As Yogani says, the desires and intention on our spiritual ideal is all that matters. One of my teacher used to say "Everything else can wait, but the search for Siva cannot."
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom! |
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Here and Now
Spain
9 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2013 : 05:11:14 AM
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A few months have passed, and I am reading your posts in the forum, while my heart fills with gratitude.
These last months have been cyclical, like anything in duality. Periods of isolation while living in my city, followed by periods of more socialization. Weeks in which it seemed I was floating on the clouds of awareness, weeks following in which the divine seemed to have been on vacation. Towards the end of these three months, an increasing sense of dryness and detachment from the world. Yogani and mr_anderson were absolutely right on the potential of overdoing the practices, and I had a fabulous lesson on self-pacing.
For some reason, possibly derived from my background, the fact that I wasn't feeling so great was seen just as a price to pay for future enlightenment. Kind of ironic given the nickname I chose for these forums. I now better understand how integrated all practices are, and that a body-mind can only take so much purification at a time, if one sees this path as a marathon to finish instead of a sprint to quickly win. I am also learning that life is my best teacher, and it's amazing how an active life not only grounds my practice but really serves as the best mirror to uncover all of those dark tendencies hidden within my shadow.
Finally, I have the intuition that my destiny is not to become a monk in this lifetime, at least not now. I had the wrong idea that by emulating people who I really admire, I would end up seeing the world through their eyes. This led me to a very rigid practice in which all activity was thought about before being conducted, leading to repression, and in a way, aversion to life.. I now realize that the only objective is to understand what One is, and allow that Being to guide your consciousness towards its Ishta. It cannot be rushed, nor controlled from the perspective of the individual ego.
I think I just got carried away with my devotion, something that I have now learned has to be regulated as well.
So the plan for the time being is an integrated practice in which the middle way is finally seen as a great mechanism instead of some grey weak average view. Without rushing into things, I am starting a process of coaching to understand what I really want to do professionally in life. Since it doesn't really matter, I would love for my next choice to be less conditioned by fear / desire for money or social status, and more an expression of who I authentically am.
Thank you.
Love.
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Edited by - Here and Now on Feb 04 2013 05:17:04 AM |
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2013 : 08:06:27 AM
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Hi Here and Now,
Thanks for updating us. I think every Yogi and Yogini at some point gets this urge to give up and give 100% to spirutual practice. So the sharing of your experience will help.
So thanks again! |
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Time off work for 100% dedication - what to do?
