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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 19 2012 : 10:13:54 AM
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Hi Everyone:
was wondering if someone could tell me what "ishta" means?
Thanks,
Maria |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2012 : 10:39:55 AM
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An ishta is a chosen ideal. Someone or something you trust and have faith in and can surrender to without the mind having any doubts.
Yogani's lesson on this:
http://www.aypsite.org/339.html
quote:
A chosen ideal is chosen by us, no one else. It is entirely personal. It can be a blend of ideals, such as the icons and ideals of our religion mixed with inquiry, affirmation and discrimination. And we will carry these through life, even as our ideal expands as we undergo the inner purification and opening associated with the ongoing process of human spiritual transformation.
Personality will play a role in one’s chosen ideal. Those who are demonstratively devotional by nature may be inclined toward outer forms of devotion like worshipful conduct, singing, spiritual dancing, etc. Others who may be more analytical may be inclined toward introspection in stillness, self-inquiry and other less visible devotional acts.
Regardless of the choice of ishta, there will be devotion involved as we become committed to the course we have chosen. As our commitment deepens, our chosen ideal will evolve and change over time, according to our rising realization of truth. The more clearly we see what is emerging within us, the more concrete it will become, and our ideal will continue to evolve toward progressively more advanced stages.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2012 : 10:37:03 PM
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I always wondered what that was. Makes perfect sense because many people can get the hump with the ideal of God or Jesus as the object to which you surrender. Brilliant, I didn't realise there was a word for an all encompassing thing which can be nameless. Its better than "whatever you want to call it "  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2012 : 11:26:08 PM
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| It's a good word because devotion to your ishta is very powerful for yoga, and it applies to all religions and even atheists. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 01:48:30 AM
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All weekend long I have been 'chewing on' the Ishta principle. I realise I have trouble with surrendering, so I thought if I could settle down with an Ishta, it would help. But I cannot seem to be able to choose one. Yet, a couple of Higher Beings have visited me in the past - most recently, Jesus. For weeks after, I was spontaneously bursting into Praising songs and he was there with me all day. But I treated it as scenery. Anything that happens automatically or spontaneously, I go with it (in daily life) but I do not cultivate nor seek it. And now the Jesus phase is gone. And now I am wondering if I should have made some effort to keep Him. I would pick Truth as an Ishta but Truth is not tangible as Jesus or Mary or some saint.
Sey |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 03:42:28 AM
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I just surrendered, it was more of a slight feeling towards, in the same way as a sutra. I didn't surrender to anything solid as an idea like God or Jesus. I too found that hard given my background.
I just went with the feeling of surrender like an implicit trust. Combining in with the idea of not having control whenever something came up which disturbed me I resorted to surrender and full knowledge that I had no control of anything. Repeating this constantly was the key, I literally gave up my right to choice and any right to be other than I was feeling at the time. I did this happy or sad. It gave me permission to be as I am without boundaries. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 04:26:25 AM
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@ Karl
Even when you are spiraling into darkness (obsession /attachment); darkness you've been in before and took years to get out of? That's when I start struggling - struggling not to sink into past issues; struggling to stay in the light.
Should one surrender then? How does one know - that one will climb back up again? go thru' the process again? I'm just too scared.
Sey |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 07:19:13 AM
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| That is precisely the reason for an ishta. Something to have faith in outside yourself because you can't do it yourself. Knowing there is power outside yourself and greater than you, that knows what is best for you when you are scared. |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 08:56:36 AM
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Thank you all
So my understanding is that it is more along the lines of a religious figure such as buddha or christ or mohammad??? For me I resonate more with Christ, as that is my religious upbringing, and my schooling as well was in the Catholic faith, although I am not a consistent practising catholic.
Karl
Surrendering.
O.K.
I was struggling and going through enormous personal issues in the last 2 weeks (thankfully it has passed now) It got to a point where the suffering was so much I surrendered to it. I affirmed that if this is what I was to go through, I accepted it in all its pain and torment, I accepted, that it was for a 'higher good' and I would struggle through as best I coudl
Lo and behold, after I did this, it completely passed and the suffering stopped.
I am glad u got to a point of being able to 'let go', and 'let God' |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 09:24:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
@ Karl
Even when you are spiraling into darkness (obsession /attachment); darkness you've been in before and took years to get out of? That's when I start struggling - struggling not to sink into past issues; struggling to stay in the light.
Should one surrender then? How does one know - that one will climb back up again? go thru' the process again? I'm just too scared.
Sey
I struggled like that Sey. I was borderline manic depressive, my family life wasn't the best in the world and my Dad was a great one for mental abuse. The book I'm writing shares all that. I didn't do it all at once, instead it's been a gradual cleansing.
I can't tell anyone it's time to surrender until you know it's time to surrender. You just know because you have had a bellyfull and no longer want it to define who you are. The difficulty is that breaking those well worn character habits and thoughts is far harder to let go of than you think it is.
Surprisingly despite how much despair is in our lives, the mere fact we are surviving is often enough for our Egos to decide its been a pretty successful ride so far. The implied cost of giving up that apparent success is seen as very high because it might mean total failure. Once you recognise that, then you can see why you are so scared of surrender. Your words relate that.
It's a leap of faith. I can stand next to you and tell you that jumping into the unknown will all work out fine. But when you are standing atop a giant diving board unable to see the bottom it's hardly reassuring.
So, work up to it slowly, do your practices diligently, plenty of self pacing, leave plenty of time for self, family, friends, expression. Just work on it bit by bit, inch by tiny inch. One day you will have the confidence to take the leap until then there is no need to force it. It will happen when it will, no need to rush or care.
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 09:27:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
Thank you all
So my understanding is that it is more along the lines of a religious figure such as buddha or christ or mohammad??? For me I resonate more with Christ, as that is my religious upbringing, and my schooling as well was in the Catholic faith, although I am not a consistent practising catholic.
Karl
Surrendering.
O.K.
I was struggling and going through enormous personal issues in the last 2 weeks (thankfully it has passed now) It got to a point where the suffering was so much I surrendered to it. I affirmed that if this is what I was to go through, I accepted it in all its pain and torment, I accepted, that it was for a 'higher good' and I would struggle through as best I coudl
Lo and behold, after I did this, it completely passed and the suffering stopped.
I am glad u got to a point of being able to 'let go', and 'let God'
yes, when we give up fighting the obvious and accept all the thoughts and emotions without judgement and with the understanding that we don't have our hands on the steering wheel of it all, then we react naturally and heal faster. |
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SparklingDiamond
Australia
227 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 10:36:51 AM
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Yes. My whingeing and whining, and carrying on, wasn't achieving a thing but more stress, angst, and pain.
So finally, with all the pain and frustration, I automatically surrender. always when pain and suffering become too much for me, I always surrender. It seems to make the process so much lighter, when I 'allow' the higher power to be in charge (which it already is, its just me acknowledging that I cannot control what is happening to me) . But in doing this, there is such a freedom!
Best Wishes,
Maria |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 11:47:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SparklingDiamond
Yes. My whingeing and whining, and carrying on, wasn't achieving a thing but more stress, angst, and pain.
So finally, with all the pain and frustration, I automatically surrender. always when pain and suffering become too much for me, I always surrender. It seems to make the process so much lighter, when I 'allow' the higher power to be in charge (which it already is, its just me acknowledging that I cannot control what is happening to me) . But in doing this, there is such a freedom!
Best Wishes,
Maria
Hi Maria,
Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful experience. Very inspiring.
In my personal experience, surrender is something that happens (or not) in every moment. Even though I've always been the "bhakti" type with very strong attachment for my ishta, the "big" surrender did not happen until very recently. I tended to intellectualize the concept of surrender, I think Finally, like you, I went through some intense emotional pain and suddenly *saw* how that particular issue was caused by my own lifelong non-serving pattern. And at that instant, I was completely fed up with it. Totally, wholly fed up, in an intense "absolutely can't do this anymore" kind of way. That being fed up seemingly opened me up to surrender at that moment. Total defeat leading to total surrender. And I finally understood what the word actually meant experientially, rather than as some abstract concept.
But our egos are so strong that surrender for most of us is not a one-time thing. Any time we are resisting what is, we can be sure it is not surrendering. And recognizing that resistance takes ongoing cultivation of inner silence..
Thus, it is a vicious cycle: bhakti for the ishta leads us to practices that cultivate inner silence, which in turn leads to surrender in the moment, and that leads to more bhakti..
Love to you,
kami |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 3:49:21 PM
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My two cents:
I don't really have an ishta, and never really liked the idea of surrendering to what is (to my mind) an imaginary concept. That's not to deride others concepts of their ishtas, for some people it's surely helpful.
However, I recently found the one thing that I could surrender to: Truth. Hardcore, incontrovertible truth, truth that simply cannot be denied, and doesn't require any belief, any imagination, trust etc. I realize my inclinations through and through are for Jnana Yoga.
Therefore when I started exploring my direct experience, in the style of Sri Krishna Atmananda Menon, Greg Goode, Rupert Spira, Scott Kiloby, Jean Klein, Francis Lucille, Jed McKenna etc that when I realized something was true, surrender happened automatically.
The process of surrendering to my Ishta, incontrovertible truth, is a process of doubting and disbelieving everything, until I come to a rock of truth. At the point of finding incontrovertible truth, the questioner and the question dissolve into That.
It's almost an opposite of surrender, because you don't need trust when you've got incontrovertible truth. You can't doubt incontrovertible truth. But the final result is the same: direct experience of yourself as That, which arises at the moment of surrender.
I resonate with Kami here when she says: quote:
Total defeat leading to total surrender
That was my experience. I reached absolute despair and then had an awakening experience (knowing myself as That). The mind liked the awakening experience, and tried to clutch it, and automatically it was gone. Despair arose, then something Rupert Spira said to me triggered an awakening experience which has been abiding for the past 4 days (although feels like it might be losing clarity now)
No doubt this too may pass, and roll on some despair, before I know myself to be the sky of freedom in which the cloud of despair is passing through again! ;-) But surrendering gets easier and easier.
This statement came into my mind at a moment that I needed it: It is my will, for whatever is happening to happen.
Just choose take whatever is happening, pleasant or unpleasant, and decide to will it to be exactly as it is. Why chose anything else?
All suffering arises from splitting the non-dual reality into subject/object, mis-identifying as the subject, and then trying to push certain experiences (objects) away, and pull other experiences (objects) closer. There's no subject/object, just a seamless totality, and this tug of war creates suffering.
Visualize the left arm trying to push away the right arm. This is what we're doing when we're resisting what is - dividing up what is not two into subject/object, then fighting with ourself.
I've also found I can surrender to a Guru who embodies truth - someone who is absolutely open (and incredibly patient enough) to having everything they say questioned in the most anal and discerning way, and doesn't expect their students to take even a statement such as "2+2=4" on trust, but to question things for their selves. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2012 : 10:34:14 PM
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You're funny, Mr Anderson- you start out saying you don't have an ishta, then explain exactly what your ishta is!
That's just as valid as any other. It only matters what your ishta means to you. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Aug 20 2012 10:34:52 PM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2012 : 07:26:37 AM
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| lol yeah bit of a contradiction there i realise |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2012 : 07:30:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_anderson
However, I recently found the one thing that I could surrender to: Truth. Hardcore, incontrovertible truth, truth that simply cannot be denied, and doesn't require any belief, any imagination, trust etc. I realize my inclinations through and through are for Jnana Yoga.
Hi Josh
In his Vivekachudamani, or "Crest Jewel" (considered one of *the* texts of Advaita), Shankara defines Bhakti exactly like this - burning desire for Truth. It does not matter what form the Truth takes (or remains formless), but Bhakti is what drives even an atheist to long for Truth. It really is a prerequisite.. But not the way we think of it with external demonstrations, rituals, singing, chanting, etc - those are optional and don't necessarily determine the "level" of Bhakti.
Also, at least in my personal experience, the concept of Ishta is constantly evolving. After an awakening experience, not only has the Bhakti been supercharged, but I feel my Ishta in a different, more intimate manner, of being that awareness that is the cause and the effect in this moment. I'm sure it will go back and forth over and over.
The greatest Jnanis were also the greatest bhaktas - Ramana, Papaji and Neem Karoli Baba, for example. The greatest bhaktas were also the greatest Jnanis - Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Rumi.. Can we think of Jesus and say he was one or the other? Don't we need the heart and the head?
Shankara would say you are very much a Jnani, but Bhakti is what made you that, whether you realize it or not
Much love,
kami
PS: Shankara himself was both - he vehemently opposed any duality with his "neti neti" (not this, not this) and wrote the beautiful Atmashatakam.. But he also composed several devotional hymns, including the exquisite Saundaryalahiri describing the beauty and benevolence of the Divine Mother..
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Edited by - kami on Aug 21 2012 07:41:01 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2012 : 07:41:13 AM
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Hi Kami
You are certainly right, there's certainly no limit to the bhakti here, it's taken over my life entirely. It manifested initially as the desire for 'the end of suffering', then as desire for truth, and now switches between desire for truth (when i feel less 'established as That') and the love for and desire to help all beings overcome suffering/realize truth (when I feel more 'established as That').
Thanks for helping me see guys, I understand this more clearly now.
love
josh |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Aug 21 2012 : 7:20:57 PM
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| I wonder if you could use "justice" as an ishta??? Sounds dangerous... |
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Anduril
Belgium
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2012 : 08:04:56 AM
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I'm a seeker for Truth since as long as I can remember. Since the last 2 years, I literally burned for a desire to See the Truth.
Recently I was experiencing another phase of intense identification with emotions in my dreams.
I self-paced quite a bit, only doing meditation once per day and a lot of grounding activities. Luckily it was at the beginning of our vacation and I had plenty of times to walk with my wife and 2 kids in the Swiss mountains for 2 weeks.
I had some physical pain located at the right side, shoulder, foot, toe, etc.
There were times it was really difficult to center myself... Too much bringing into light of old behaviors and expectations were coming back into my face. One part of me wanted to close his eyes but another was having fun to take a torch and throw light on the most obscure and dark sides of my psyche.
In one of my dreams where I was an omnipotent God, all the other Gods were in couple but I was alone. I lived the most terrible feeling of Solitude my being ever lived. In that dream my energy was blocked at the belly. When I asked how to lift that blockage the only answer I got was : "See There", then the identification with Solitude occurred.
Since that dream, every day slowly pieces of a veil were removed. I had nowhere to hide. I was denuding myself. This internal process also reflected externally and I could see other people suffering inside. First of August, my being couldn't stand it anymore and all my being shouted one last time and then followed Freedom. There was no one left to carry the world on his shoulder. That was never necessary. The mental was for the first time back the the place it should have never left. Nowadays, attachments are fading away. Only being is... only the Life flowing...
After this direct experience of the non-existence of a 'me' that controls my life, it was an immense relief. 'I' was merely a thought amongst other thoughts but there was nothing real behind. A thought had created this endless suffering. Thoughts are still there. Some are losing their energy. Silence is more present... Love without object is more present too... Life is flowing and Beautiful whatever it brings.
Now, after much suffering and identification, I surrender to Life. Life is its own Ishta, playing with Itself endlessly ;-)
Love & Live,
Anduril |
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Ishta
