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alan
USA
235 Posts |
 Posted - May 28 2006 : 2:40:21 PM
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Hello all
It is said that we live in the dark age, the Kali Yuga. This is somewhere in the Hindu scriptures.
Swami Sri Yukteswar, the Guru of Paramhansa Yogananda, said otherwise. In his book "The Holy Science" Yukteswar, a master astrologer, wrote that the calculation was done wrong as it was put into ancient text. His calculations say that within the 26,000 year cycle of ages, 13,000 ascending and 13,000 descending, we have been out of Kali Yuga for a few hundred years now (as of our current date). We still feel the influence of Kali as ages don't abruptly end and begin, but have transition periods. This would make sense as it seems obvious that technology alone has made tremendous leaps. And then there's political evolution. And of course we here see jumps in the evolution of spiritual practices.
I've also read somewhere that Kali Yuga is predominant in the universe as a greater cycle which would be another measurement and our 26,000 year cycle turns within that greater cycle.
Anyone have info on this?
Peace, alan |
Edited by - alan on May 28 2006 3:42:48 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2006 : 7:48:51 PM
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Since I've mentioned Sri Yukteswar's book, "The Holy Science", I thought I'd ask if anyone else has enjoyed it. It's the one that Babaji asked him to write as you may have read about in Paramhansa Yogananda's "Autobiography of a Yogi".
Besides the Kali Yuga info. Sri Yukteswar put together a wonderful comparison of Bhagavad Gita and Bible passages (mostly New Testament) in light of the process of yoga. A good read that becomes more revealed as I practice yoga.
Peace, alan |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2006 : 11:26:04 AM
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Thanks Frank
That article nicely outlines the different schools of thought on the subject including Sri Yukteswar's reckonings.
Peace, alan |
Edited by - alan on Jun 02 2006 6:46:49 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2006 : 10:06:51 PM
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Hi Frank and all
How many of us see such things as utterly strange and ridiculous? I didn't previously see those acts as odd, yet now they are of a lower dimension to me. My question is this, is there a growing number of people whose consciousness is beginning to rise above such acts? Are there those who may be at the fore-front of a change in consciousness, like those of us who are leaping ahead here in our spiritual practice? It doesn't seem evident yet that people in general are raising their consciousness, but we may be at the tip of the iceberg. I guess time will tell.
Peace, alan |
Edited by - alan on Jun 10 2006 10:25:49 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2006 : 10:36:31 PM
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Frank,
for a bit of counterpersepctive, there are myths of golden ages and so on. But archaelogical and anthropological studies indicate that our modern democratic societies are in themselves in golden ages of low murder rates and death from warfare. Strange maybe, but true.
It's easy to idealize societies in the past without their 500lb bombs, but they seem to have way, way, way more deaths due to warfare per person than we do. The same tends to be true of the few remaining 'stone age' societies today. The same is true, by the way, of the now-fashionable-to-mythologize Native American cultures before the appearance of the 'white man'.
What's the big deal about Zarkawi? A savage lopper off of heads? He's probably a psychopath and in earlier societies, if he wasn't executed early as a criminal, he might have found his way into a bandit's den or pirate ship, or he might have joined 'the law' and have been, say, an enforcer for a minor feudal lord, if he were not a minor feudal lord himself. In this actual life he found a somewhat bigger stage for himself, as such people sometimes do. C'est la vie.
But the stage he found is not huge in the big picture, neither in size nor in cruelty. Check out the kings of old if you want to know about horrors. Zarkawi is even still small fry in the human history of handing out torture and misery.
So I suppose I'm saying, brother, if you thinks that's Kali-ish stuff, you ain't seen nothing yet...
If you have the stomach, read about Ivan the Terrible's ways. Warning: do not read about them if you are sensitive to learning about the horrific deaths of many thousands of innocent people through agonizing torture.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvenjb/madmon...van4_bio.htm
And be thankful you live in a relatively civilized society.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 11 2006 08:42:24 AM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2006 : 8:17:43 PM
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Hello yogis and yoginis
If anyone is interested in investigating the possibility that we are currently in an ascending Dwapara Yuga, just google "dwapara" and you will find interesting info on the subject. To be open to the idea of miscalculations entering the written record at the onset of the last descending Kali Yuga (Kali by Sri Yukteswar's calculations) one must suspend beleif that the scriptures are completely accurate. The possibility that we may be in the beginning of an ascending Dwapara Yuga is a hopeful prospect.
Peace, alan |
Edited by - alan on Jun 14 2006 8:28:35 PM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2006 : 12:46:17 PM
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Hi Frank:
From the standpoint of our yoga practices, does it really matter what age we are in? If ever-increasing numbers of people are engaged in spiritual practices (who can deny it?) and progressing on their path, that is a much better metric to gauge the condition (and future) of humanity by. Not only that, it is a metric we can directly influence with our real-time choices and actions.
I tend to favor the practical, and believe that astrological discussions, while sometimes interesting, are academic at best. And, if astrology is being used to make our everyday decisions, it can be downright degenerative and destructive, even in an enlightened age!
Inner silence within each of us knows much better than any star chart.
While we'd like to be in harmony with the stars, and everything else, what we are transcends the stars. In a real sense, we control the stars. When push comes to shove, the influence of pure bliss consciousness will far surpass even the galactic forces. Therefore, the whole issue of what to do with astrology is resolved in deep meditation. Then it boils down to using astrology when it inspires the cause of evolution, and ignoring it when it doesn't!
Based on that rational assessment, I'll go with Yukteswar's assertion that we are into Dwapara and rising fast. When given a choice, why not take the evolutionary one? Much better that the calculations (if any) should serve our needs than the other way around. And, if the need is to justify a negative point of view, well, maybe the point of view needs some adjustment rather than the calculation.
What I mean is, in the end, the numbers really don't matter. What matters is our ongoing commitment (bhakti!) to our journey of human spiritual transformation, and consistently acting on that utilizing the most effective tools we can find. I submit that following the stars into a black hole (real or imagined) is not an effective tool.
Just some food for thought -- from beyond the stars, of course... 
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2006 : 11:29:25 PM
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Hi Frank:
Kali yuga or Dwapara yuga? That is macro jyotish/astrology, isn't it?
I believe it to be Dwapara, and thought it appropriate to give the reasons why. If it's not entirely objective, at least it's practical.
The macro is usually much easier to predict than the micro -- predicting the season as opposed to the daily weather. With major disagreements on the macro, where does that leave jyotish with the micro? Are there then two systems of jyotish -- one for an age of ignorance, and one for an age of enlightenment?
In any case, anyone who makes a case for an age of ignorance around here is going to get a rise out of me. It is a POV you are certainly entitled to, but don't look for any sympathy from practitioners who have discovered beyond any doubt that spiritual destiny lies solely within. From that POV, the stars are seen as a reflection of inner space, not the other way around.
If jyotish figures into that sort of evolutionary development in some way, in the here and now (not the next yuga/age, please), I'd be happy to hear about it, and perhaps others would too. Exactly what is the "spiritual technique" of jyotish anyway? Can it be stated simply, and applied equally simply?
In all fairness, on the advice of a jyotishi many years ago, I have been sleeping with a gemstone under the mattress for over 20 years. Ah, the secret is out! Maybe without that stone under there, AYP would never have happened, but I doubt it. That gemstone has been more than canceled out by the fact that we have (according to sthapatya veda, a jyotish-based system of building design) been walking in and out of the wrong side of our house for even longer. And we will continue to, because that is the easiest way in and out.
So where does real spiritual progress come from? Bhakti, deep meditation, spinal breathing, asanas/mudras/bandhas, tantric methods, etc. In other words, daily practices deep in the trenches of the nervous system. That is where the dance is. Then we can walk through the gates of what some might consider hell and only notice the ecstatic bliss. Stars? What stars? Kali what?
Question: Does being in an age of ignorance mean we all will be inspired to redouble our efforts along our path to compensate? If so, I am all for it. And wouldn't that really be an age of enlightenment?
That is what I meant about "controlling the stars." Whatever energy the stars can deliver (positive or negative) we can turn it into blazing bhakti and illusion-shattering spiritual progress. And when we leave this place, we will take that momentum and progress with us wherever we go. That is how we all got here. The vibes aren't so bad compared to last time, are they? Everything is relative. And how quickly we forget. This world is paradise compared to what it was!
But, I suppose it is in the eye of the beholder, which is the whole point, isn't it? Turn on the windshield wipers so those eyes can see that we are already in heaven.
The guru is in you.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 08:13:13 AM
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Hi all
Darkness or light....isn't it always both?
This discussion brought into my mind a poem I wrote some years back:
An ordinary lens
On days when changes seem strangely remote,
when I look through the chip on my shoulder
I try to remember the poet who wrote
that beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Although I’ve been looking at life since birth
I had no idea life looked at me
That I could be a lens on the face of the earth
through which light could make you see
And that cleaning this lens will make me transparent;
I then am a means, not a subject,
And that being a lens is profoundly different
from looking through this innocent object
Don’t worry Katrine, you’re blind as a bat
and the seers are rare and few
If you only could realize that what you are looking at
is somehow mysteriously you
Lifes many treasures aren’t always under ground,
hidden from sight – on the contrary:
The absolutely sublime can also be found
in the very absolutely ordinary
Katrine 2003
May all your Nows be Here |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 09:48:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
So where does real spiritual progress come from? Bhakti, deep meditation, spinal breathing, asanas/mudras/bandhas, tantric methods, etc. In other words, daily practices deep in the trenches of the nervous system. That is where the dance is. Then we can walk through the gates of what some might consider hell and only notice the ecstatic bliss. Stars? What stars? Kali what?
This is such a cool post! Yogani please keep posting and writing books.
This story about Kali yuga is very convenient for people like me who have a lot of negative thoughts and emotions. We can just say well this is the world we live in, tough luck mate. It is so good to have someone that can say No to this and point to a possible positive outcome that depends on our actions. To be honest I am not sure that I will arrive at that in this lifetime but what's there to lose...
Very nice poem from Kathrine also.
Frank, thx for bringing up the subject.
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Edited by - Lili on Jun 16 2006 09:53:38 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 11:03:41 AM
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Frank said:
David, I concur that we are 'just getting warmed up'. we are 1.15% into Kali . And this is a kinda civil society , yet way below the potentional of our society.
Frank, I don't believe in the Dwapara-Kali cycles in a literal sense. And certainly not in those regular measured cycles. This means I don't believe what Yukteswar believes.
The archaeological, anthropological, and fossil records simply contradict such ideas pretty severely. I believe in the long run, the literal belief in those cycles has to go the way of literal belief in creationism as opposed to evolution.
At any one time, different societies throughout the world are in entirely different 'yuga' qualities. Ivan the Terrible's Russia was pretty darn Kali-ish, while at the same time there were many places in the world enjoying great peace and prosperity at those times -- more Dwapara-ish. These long, worldwide, repeating cycles just don't hold up.
Which does not mean that they don't have value at the level of myth.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 16 2006 11:08:49 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 11:06:21 AM
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Yogani said:
In all fairness, on the advice of a jyotishi many years ago, I have been sleeping with a gemstone under the mattress for over 20 years. Ah, the secret is out!
I hope Lasher isn't reading in. He now knows where to burgle a good gemstone.
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 11:21:46 AM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
[b]I don't believe in the Dwapara-Kali cycles in a literal sense. And certainly not in those regular measured cycles. This means I don't believe what Yukteswar believes.
At any one time, different societies throughout the world are in entirely different 'yuga' qualities.
Hello David,
Good point - never looked at it like that i.e. societies at different yuga's. Also we can 'see' that societies do in fact have 'golden years' the USA period of the 50's when things felt in balance ( other then that darn Korean war!). And Look to Germany for the dark years on the 40's. No dis-respect any aboriginal Germans that are on the list.
Here's the part I cannot rationalize, if Sri Yukteswar is a saint of enlightened vision, he may know something we do not , or we cannot see. I have his book 'The Holy Science' and reviewed it a few times and states a different POV on this whole Yuga conversation.
I think I will leave it alone, as this seems to be a passionate point of dicsussion for many (that I just don't get why!). You can be enlightened in any age... you just get more support from nature and others when Dharma is fully-blossomed.
thx again,
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Jun 16 2006 11:32:10 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 11:24:31 AM
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P.S. Frank, we replied at the same time, so the start of my message (to follow) is a little out of date, particularly regarding your preceding reply.
Frank, you should know that you are actually debating now, in the bit I quoted below. Not that debating is a bad thing -- I'm all for it and I do it all the time myself. But I usually know that I am doing it. So, know that you are doing it, and proceed accordingly if you want to. If you don't want to debate, stop. Like that.
I don't know why Yogani took you on so stridently, since he is usually so mild. (I say that, while I happen to agree more with his side of the 'disagreement'.) As he said, anyone who suggests we are heading into Kali Yuga is going to get a rise out of him. But it's no big deal and don't get upset by it -- it's just stridence. We don't have to agree on everything around here.
-David
quote:
Frank said:
I still ask you to please address my question from the last post which is germane to the conversation:
Take any sutra of Patanjali - give it to a sadhu that has been practicing meditation for a bit. S/he is in silence. He does the sutra per instructions given, yet does not get the expected results, not even a flavor. Is the knowledge wrong? Is Patanjali wrong? is it destructive? e.g. has this instilled doubt into the sadhu? what next for the instruction?
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 16 2006 1:30:42 PM |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 12:02:52 PM
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Thank you all for penetrating this subject so constructively. You are all divine
Katrine, your poetry is magnificent as always, thank you.
Peace, alan |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 2:03:09 PM
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Hi All:
The passion here is for human spiritual transformation. As far as I can tell after 30 some odd years of looking at it, jyotish/astrology doesn't deserve much credit or blame, either way. The good or bad of jyotish is in each person’s view of it, which raises an interesting question: What the heck is it? To the extent jyotish is used by people to justify a negative and unevolutionary point of view, I think it should be thrown out. Period. In that case, it is not helping anyone. That is the reason for my "rise."
Frank, you started it by saying the world is falling apart, and Kali yuga is the reason why. Well, I think that is an irresponsible statement that can perpetuate itself, and suck the life out of people’s motivation to practice. Thank you, Lily, for chiming in on that important point. It is not a casual examination of jyotish principles. It is casting a world-view on everyone, and using the ancient “authority” of jyotish to back it up. It must be challenged.
On the other hand, if all predictions and events can be used for spiritual evolution, then jyotish can be useful, challenging us to reach ever higher. In that case, jyotish can be an asset, like anything we encounter in life. But it requires an important element of yoga for this to happen – an ongoing commitment to the spirit and methods of bhakti. With that, we can do “spiritual judo” on any sort of energy that comes (even Kali yuga) and convert it to support our divine destiny of spiritual transformation.
So, to answer your question, Frank, if jyotish can be made to work for our evolution, then we should use it. And if it can't, then the time is not right and it should be put aside. Just like that, samyama is not necessarily the best thing for everyone to be doing until inner silence has been stabilized to a degree through daily deep meditation. In the case of samyama, there are many who indicate some benefit. It is a matter of degree. Some do not experience anything. That's fine. It does not mean they still ought to be doing samyama. They can put it aside and wait until later. No harm done.
Likewise, I don't think jyotish should be used until the necessary ongoing bhakti has been stabilized. If it can't be converted to be an evolutionary force, why on earth use it? Just because a body of knowledge has been developed by sages thousands of years ago, it is not proof of its value today. It is only a hint, a clue in the puzzle. Like anything else, jyotish has to prove its value as spiritual method in the present, in modern terms, to be worth anything. Otherwise, it is just looking backwards – an escape into superstition. It is convenient to raise ancient knowledge up on a pedestal. It is like having an "infallible" guru or church. We don’t have to do anything except parrot the party line. Well, we all know about the pitfalls in that.
So, I have to ask, what is the "expected result" of jyotish, and who is benefiting by it in the here and now? Jyotish is not like samyama or any other sitting practice because it cannot be easily put on the back shelf. For those who practice jyotish and are not benefiting spiritually (lots), they will not necessarily know they are not benefiting, and it can become an endless quagmire of superstition, confusion and fear that can become woven into the culture, and very hard to get rid of. It’s not like a stalled practice we can easily put on the back shelf until later. Jyotish professes to define the course of our lives. It demands our attention, whether worthy of it or not, and can be like quicksand for those who are not ready with loads of bhakti. It can become a destructive addiction.
It is said that having the "right" jyotishi/astrologer is the key. The key to what? And even the best jyotishi (if honest) will tell you that he/she will be right only a little more than half the time. 70% right would be spectacular, but still a crap shoot. So jyotish is a statistical game, like (pardon me) the stock market. Under the best of circumstances, it is still hit or miss.
The only reason I am making a big deal of this is because, if we are going to look at jyotish/astrology as serious spiritual practice, then it requires the same scrutiny as any other practice -- a thorough examination of cause and effect in relation to real spiritual progress.
If it is just a pastime, a hobby, a glance in the paper at our horoscope, or playing with it on the computer for enjoyment, well then, fine, who cares? But I don't think you regard jyotish in that way, Frank. So, naturally, the question comes up: What is this good for on the path of serious practitioners? How can it help us advance spiritually? Any reasonable explanation will be greeted with open arms. I have no desire to sabotage the field of jyotish, and certainly not any discussion of it here. But it has to stand up, you know, especially when making dire claims that can affect us all. If it is just an interesting hobby and pastime, that is fine. But you can't have it both ways. It is either serious spiritual practice (with observable results), or it is not. Which is it?
This is a serious forum on spiritual practices, and anything that professes to have value in that realm is subject to verification by direct experience.
Only trying to get to the bottom of it, you know.
The guru is in you.
PS – David, now you know the real reason why I am anonymous. The Hope Diamond is under my mattress. The one in the Smithsonian is a fake.
To all you burglars out there: Only kidding! The stone is synthetic. Honest ... it is not even worth pawning to help support AYP. So it stays under the mattress... 
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 6:10:46 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
[green]Frank, you should know that you are actually debating
David, thank you for the advice. It feels a bit foreign to offer up a benign subject that raises ire in folks. I responded to the 'challenge' then quickly caught my ignorance and took it off line.
I hope we can get to a conversational envoironment were we can discuss vs. challenge, and hold seemingly ambiguous ideas in our minds at one time, and not concern ourselves that 'my opinion is more right then yours' - This has been my orientation, but seems to not play well in Pikipsy.
shanti,
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Jun 16 2006 6:37:22 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 5:55:31 PM
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Hi Yogani,
I agree with you fully. Reading what you wrote has been a somewhat uncanny experience for me -- you wrote something I don't hear often but which I felt I might well have written myself.
For several years I've also been feeling that, regarding managing spiritual energy, the old ways of describing it and managing it have to go, or at least take the back seat to something better.
In other words, the old vessels from which knowledge of Spirit is poured, can no longer work sufficiently well. These old vessels are 'magical', 'mythical', 'sacro-pietic', 'religious'.
What are these new vessels if they exist? Are they developing around the world now? Are we pioneering them at AYP to an extent?
Do you think this is the meaning of this snippet of the Christian Gospels?
Gospel of Mark
21. And no person seweth a piece of fresh cloth on an old garment: otherwise the new addition taketh from the old, and the rent is made worse. 22. And no person putteth new wine into old vessels; otherwise the new wine bursts the vessels, and the wine is spilt, and the vessels are lost: but new wine must be put into new vessels.
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2006 : 7:46:17 PM
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Hi all you fellow yuga busters
I thought it worthy to add that Sri Yukteswar also wrote rather extensively on the yugas within any individual's experience. Every individual passes through all the yugas in the course of evolution. He says that by practicing Kriya Yoga (or whatever you wish to call it) anyone can accelerate their personal evolution and pass through the yugas on their own pace and merit, even in a sigle life-time, thereby transcending the influence of the positions of the stars.
I read this in other works of his pen on the sitewww.yoganiketan.net
Peace, alan |
Edited by - alan on Jun 17 2006 7:50:39 PM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 12:27:37 AM
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Hi All:
"Yuga busters." Now that is a good one, Alan. Interesting point of view from Yukteswar that we can zoom through the yugas on an accelerated individual level with practices. He is a sage after my own heart!
I was thinking of the phrase, "Beyond the Veda." It is not so outrageous, because inner silence (pure bliss consciousness) is beyond all expressions of knowledge. The vedas are one of those expressions, and a human one, like all others.
Melissa, perhaps the darkness we see is a symptom of purification on a global scale, leading ultimately to a profusion of light. We will find out in time.
David, it is very interesting about the relative value of old knowledge versus new knowledge. I don't think it has to be one or the other. Old knowledge has certain advantages -- particularly a resilience ("the truth lasts"), but it also can have distortions that creep in over time, especially in oral traditions, which can be like playing "telephone."
New knowledge has the advantage of being in the present and not "frozen in time" so to speak. It deals with things as they are developing and can adjust itself to current conditions. On the other hand, new knowledge can be naive and filled with errors without a solid grounding in prior knowledge. Probably the biggest advantage of new knowledge is that it can draw on all that has been recorded before, and move to the next level. In other words, the knowledge we have today is not only new, it is also a preservation and adaptation of the old knowledge to suit present conditions. At least it can be like that if the developers of new knowledge take advantage of previous efforts in the field.
An important phenomenon that straddles both old and new knowledge is progress over the centuries in the development of information preservation systems. It is the ongoing accumulation of knowledge and increasing access to it by more and more people that has been the single greatest contributor to the advancement of human civilization. As information preservation systems have advanced over the centuries from oral, to written, to printed, and now to electronic, the progress of humanity has accelerated exponentially.
When it comes to scripture, there have tended to be interruptions in the multi-generational evolution of information development, even as other fields like the sciences have grown and flourished, perhaps because so few sages have come along over the centuries who could take spiritual knowledge to more usable levels of development. So, what we have had in many cases is rigid hierarchies built around old "frozen" scriptures, and dogmatic interpretations rather than advancements in the knowledge. India may be an exception in this, because many generations seem to have developed their own scriptures there, leading to less rigidity in the spiritual knowledge base. Even so, we still run into the issues of blind acceptance and limited flexibility in many of the Indian traditions. So there is a need for more modern sages to keep the great spiritual heritage of India growing, rather than ending up frozen in the past. Of course, we need that in the West too, where we are just getting restarted after a couple of thousand years of no significant growth in our spiritual knowledge base. We owe a lot to India for helping us out with a jump start. May we return the favor sometime in the future with practical spiritual methodologies incorporating Western creativity and know-how.
I hope that AYP can make a small contribution to the growing base of spiritual knowledge being integrated and refined in the West. With the advent of electronic communications and instant worldwide information availability, we don't have to think of knowledge as being East or West anymore. It is just knowledge for everyone to use and expand upon.
With regard to the Kali yuga discussion, I do think we have to step back and see if the old template fits anymore. As mentioned in my last post, what has been happening for some time now with worldwide spiritual trends does not seem to add up to a new age of ignorance. Just the opposite. I suppose a serious enough cataclysm could send us back to the stone age, or do away with us completely. On the other hand, in a short few thousand years, humanity will be spreading out across the galaxy, and we will no longer be solely dependent on this single small ball whirling through space. Either way, we are obliged to do the best we can with the advancement of spiritual knowledge in the here and now, taking it as far as we can. If there is a tomorrow, there will be many who can benefit from our recorded progress. And if there isn't a tomorrow, well, we will move on from here all the richer in spirit. We will have really lived!
Certainly the positions of the stars will continue to be quantitatively predictable in the present, and far into the future. But will the qualitative interpretations of those positions by the ancient sages still hold true far into the future? That is the question. I guess our descendents will find out. In the meantime, I encourage everyone to make their own decisions about their spiritual practices rather than leaving it to interpretations of the stars. That keeps us squarely in the driver's seat and properly motivated to do something about our spiritual progress.
Btw, I had a very strong reaction in above posts to the idea of our fate being sealed in a Kali yuga style scenario. I believe strongly in self-determination, and will fight tooth and nail for that, as you all know by now. Frank undeservedly ended up in the barrage, and I owe him an apology for that. Sorry, Frank! You were just passing on useful information, as you always do, and I flew off the handle. The intent was not to shoot the messenger, but to say "no" to the message. I believe there is a better way. After all, in our essence, we are beyond both the vedas and the stars!
The guru is in you.
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2006 : 08:04:02 AM
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| Just adding a tiny hapenny to the glittering heap here: I've heard a strong exponent of the 'Kali Yug' and its heaviness, speak in the same breath of the emergence of the superman and superwoman, as per Sri Aurobindo. I thought it an incredible contradiction, but now, it seems to me that whatever 'heaviness' is there now is itself fertile soil for the superpeople. Like Melissa, I too have observed that I'm coming across more and more people who can see and sense things that not 40 years ago would have been considered 'miraculous'. Now it's more like "Oh, I can use HTML... so you do Java, eh? I'm thinking of picking that up too." |
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Kali or Dwapara?
