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Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 05:06:18 AM
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Hi All,
Thought I would bring this discussion to the forum in hopes that someone on this path with knowledge and experience on the subject might offer some advice.
I've mentioned before that the spark of my conscious spiritual development is credited to my original experiences with marijuana. From its initial pleasurable highs, to its painfully revealing nature, marijuana has been with me practically every step of the way since I began meditation practices. So, it dawned on me the other day that I have no comparative experience on the path without the continuous heavy use of Marijuana to observe whether its use has slowed my progress or has been an aid in some way. As I see it, marijuana is very much a double edged sword in that aspect depending on intent and perspective. You're probably thinking, "Well, take a break and observe the difference." However, I have little desire to quit. I don't know why, but I accept it for what it is for now. Am I addicted? Maybe. I smoke too much to be able to tell. In other words, I wouldn't say I have unhealthy cravings for it, but I stay high just enough to remain "satisfied." Maybe that's what they mean by feeding an addiction. To be honest it just found its way into my life and has been easily accesible ever since. In fact its easier to get then the money to buy it! My closest friends and family are heavy users as well, so you can see why I'm such a pothead. 
I've come to learn a lot about marijuana since I've started using it. I've been living a high life since 14 with very few vacations in between. The longest I've gone not smoking was for two weeks pre AYP a couple years ago. I smoke marijuana almost every day, several times a day. I won't lie that my use has been in excess many times, if not always. In fact just three days ago I smoked over 10 blunts within just two hours. It's really become like a chain-smoking cigarette habit for me. I've observed many of its effects for me in correlation with meditation and practices. I've come to see it very much as a psychic vitamin. It enhances my awareness of telepathic perceptions. The thoughts and energies of others are more easily picked up on. I find that it puts me in a hyper-aware state, in which energy, sensations, and thoughts are magnified, almost uncomfortably so. As I said earlier, based on my observations of my progress while using marijuana, it's a double edged sword. I think one of the primary benefits it has had on my path is that it raised my awareness of unconscious patterning. Now its trade off, for me, was that it also makes me very susceptible to these same patterns and it's easy to fall back into them. Not sure if that's good progress or not.
I've meditated while high many times, in fact most of my afternoon meditations are done while high or not too long after lighting up. The effects vary depending on the strain. I noticed more often than not meditation while high can be very deep, powerful, and energetic, tending to have more purifying activity going on. You can really feel the mantra digging up all that unconscious junk. Smoking after meditating tends to be a little counter-productive sometimes in that it makes it harder to remain rooted in presence, tending to pull me up into my head. Some strains will make you more calm and mindful as well, it really depends. It's also a matter of how much you smoke. With just the right amount it can be a useful aid, too much and it's effects will overpower you.
I'm sure we're all aware of Marijuana's role as a healing and spiritual herb. Saddhu's have used it for centuries in India. It certainly has a place on the spiritual path with it's own value, none can deny that. I feel that Marijuana has served a useful purpose in my life, but at this point I have to be honest with myself and find balance for the sake of progress. I have to know whether it's still serving a beneficial purpose, is still a good tool at this point on the path, or is just throwing more mud on the windshield.
So, this post is directed to all current and past marijuana users on the path. Please share your experiences with marijuana, all its benefits and detriments for you. If you stopped, how has progress and daily life been since then? If you still are a user, how have you found balance with this herb to maximize its potential benefits for your progress? And lastly, if I decide to force myself to quit how should I go about this? Or should I even make the effort if there is no genuine desire to do so? I can't say whether it still has a beneficial purpose on my path, though I definitely still desire to continue using it. However I care about my progress towards enlightenment more than I do getting high, and I feel like it's time for me to deeply consider how my use of marijuana has impacted my progress, both good and bad.
Looking forward to your replies,
Chaz
(Excuse my grammatical errors in this post, I wrote it from a phone.)
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Edited by - Chaz on Jul 16 2012 05:21:16 AM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2012 : 8:44:57 PM
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Hi Chaz,
I think this topic has been discussed many times already. In my "childhood" experiences which included many substances but none regularly or in any great amount, more like for testing purposes, mj had the following effects:
- burning in the chest (my lungs don't like anything except fresh air =P)
- bloody eyes and racing heartbeat
- sharpened/intensified perception
- if attention is directed to something, it is more focused, thus more energy moves to that place
- while spinal breathing: entering the sushumna with great effects happened and was very "mind-opening" and inspirational
- etherical and astral perception do increase temporarily
After effects:
- dull perception in the heart
- unability to feel the subtle joy and love flows for 2-4 weeks
- love and joy perception and expression in general is blocked
- awareness of subtle things shut off strongly
- a lot of strange behaviours start expressing
- decreased wish to practice
Among all the substances I tested, mj was the one with the longest unpleasant side-effects sometimes remaining for months. I think some of them are related to the inhalation of smoke in general. Most of the dull heart, unawareness of subtle joys etc. also happens when some passive smoke enters this body. All in all for this body here it amplifies some gross perceptions while the rest goes under fastly. For this reason mj was never attractive, especially after the best substance test which was with acid, mj became the least possible attractive substance. And even acid couldn't provide more than inspiration, so it was clear here very early, that practice without substances is the way to go.
If you would stop smoking, it would still take some months until a good amount of the window would cleanup for you to see the difference. I'm sure some others will link to the relating threads or add more of their experience. Some say mj is ok, some say it is totally counterproductive. I'm aware of Yogani and Hans from kriyayoga.com who reached nirvikalpa samadhi within 5 years and both advice against any substances, the latter even is very direct and strict on this matter.
In the end your inner wish for truth will surely guide you on this. Wish you the best :) |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 06:16:27 AM
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Hey there Chaz
I'm not gonna say anything theoretical on that topic
I'll just share an overview of my experiences with MJ.
In the beginning it was just increasing phantasy to a level where you could say that the attention subtly shifted from physical to astral without letting the physical realm go totally.
Also, weed can give that feeling of anesthetic energy just knocking you out, makinng you dull and somehow lifeless at times
But still I have big love for my sweet Mary Jane :D
She showed me stuff...
For me it is a big joy having a joint now and then though the possibilities of accessing it are really tight so it's a rather really really rare occasion for me to have some.
I had some of the effects holy described but I also had gigantic highs with it!
I don't like saying it again because this time I really gain nothing from it, but because you deserve to hear the full spectrum: I had what someone called a full kundalini rise/awakening (I talked about this on here already) on MJ which could be seen as an initiation (as I was told) and OFCOURSE the effect of that huge realization (this is all REALLY just a game! I am he, he is me, the real self, the other one is just a role etc) left me the moment I woke up the next day ;) It just doesn't stay with you. Like no matter how great that experience is it leaves you again.
BUT I also had effects that just dimmed my lights.
And then again I had also great bliss and felt god's diving love pouring down on me as I felt so grateful and overwhelmed by the beauty that I cried.
MJ can become pretty real. But it's just a friend after all and can probably become an obstacle. If you do it, don't do it just like that, have that loving relationship to it. I know you love it, so love it consciously, praise the love :D
She might help you on the way but don't forget the way because then in my opinion MJ will really be just entertainment (if spirituality was fashion than this would be the total no-go ;D). If I was talking about you the way I would say it to my past self then I'd say: She will help you but you must be trusting and loving her and be willing and wanting to WALK THAT PATH! It is about your determination.
Experiences of the matrix/mastermind, experiences of seeing what you actually are as a person and what is actually going on (which can really hurt at times), experiences of this and that, higher and lower states are just states passing by. It's just experiences unless you make steps, then they can be useful.
If your determination for spiritual progress or whatever you may call it is higher than your desire to smoke, then everything will fall into it's "right" (as for me it is the right thing so I call it right) place. Your divine longing will put everything into the right order all "by itself". If your smoking is more important than think about that stuff for a while. If you don't want to change that okay. If you do then the smoking will be seen as an addiction and you'll need a way to deal with it. Maybe without quitting I have no idea whatsoever to say on that.
So anyway I hope I could help you out in anyway, have fun you lucker (oh what I'd give for a blunt now hahaha ;)) |
Edited by - escapado on Jul 17 2012 07:17:00 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 6:12:02 PM
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Here's my trajectory with cannabis (and yes, this has been discussed quite a few times...but what hasn't been discussed multiple times in these forums? LOL.  ...repetition is how we learn and make progress.)
1) Start experimenting and enjoy the altered consciousness marijuana induces
2) Try other psychedelics and drugs/alcohol to see how far they take you
3) Excessively use these plants/chemicals/inebriants until the point of burning out--which negatively affects all aspects of personal, professional, and inner life.
4) After getting ass kicked by barrage of consequences, quit all substances, realize that higher consciousness can be achieved through much more effective and lasting means.
Now, some people's trajectory never metastisizes to stage 3 (burn-out), but if you lolly-gag in stage 2 (heightened experimentation), there's a high likelihood that you will get toasted. Or, you'll just kind of plateau in stage 2 and be a life-long stoner and live a mediocre life bound to a well-regulated addiction (refer to Grateful Dead hardcore fans, for example...I say that with the utmost compassion, both for the band and its followers, both of whom I love.)
So, the question is whether you wanna skip stages 2 & 3 and go directly to stage 4, where the real gold is--at the end of the rainbow. At least that's been my experience.
Cheers.  |
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Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 10:11:57 PM
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My desire for Truth is definitely much more than my desire to continue using cannabis, but as Yogani mentioned in the lessons, inner silence will naturally help us drop any negative or destructive habits. That's the theory I relaxed into some time ago believing that with practices my use would decline and I would soon be glad about it. However, the opposite happened, instead I found my use of it increasing, just by availability alone. So it leaves me to wonder if maybe the herb still has a role to play on my path. My inner silence has certainly led me to stop smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol, though I was never too fond of these things in the first place.
It would just be easier to quit for long enough to see whether a sober mind state is what I need or not, but this is waging war on myself. It'll be a constant battle with myself and currently I lack the discipline I need for that. Marijuana had a presence since early on in life and has been around ever since, so just dropping it completely out of the picture will take some hard adjustments. And it's even harder when most of my friends, who are pretty successful and hardworking people imo, many getting A's and B's in school and some are talented atheletes as well, use it recreationally as a way to pass free time or enhance any activity. And I don't ever pass it up. 
So, imo I don't believe the use of it means sacrificing my success in finding truth, or whatever really. That's why I continue to use it for now. Maybe that's just me being hard headed and I get that. I'm really stubbourn about these kinds of things sometimes. That's why I wanted advice here. I'm unsure if the increasing use and desire of it is for my own good or not. I just want to come to a balance, a comprimise if you will with progress and my use of marijuana. I realize that it can be either a stepping stone or stumbling block, and I wish to mitigate the consequences of the latter.
Please correct me if I am misguided in my statements of marijuana being helpful at some point on the spiritual path. This has just been my own experience and I know that doesn't count for the rest.
Bodhi, I know deep down this can't be a life long habbit for me. Maybe a life long occasional indulgence... hopefully. I'm regarding my rate of use right now as just a phase, and perhaps maybe the burn out is what's calling my name to get me to quit. Who knows, I'm certainly experiencing that more and more these days, though I feel like I've just grown so used to it that I ignore it all too often. I'm certainly starting to see similar after-effects to what Holy and Escapado describe manifesting; dullness, blocks in expression, strange behavior, etc. I've experienced just about every effect marijuana can give you, but the burning out bit is becoming more prominent I will admit. Still, I guess I'm attatched to the subtle joys marijuana has provided for so long. *sigh* What am I gonna do with myself. 
Anyways I know the topic is a little redundant, but I feel like for my own unique experience it would be worthwhile to discuss it once more and get some general advice based on the more long-term experiences of some people here. Compared to many I'm still very new to this path, so I'm learning as I go. Much appreciation to you all for offering your experiences and advice. Trust me, it's all taken into account. I'm glad to be learning from the wise souls who have gone before me. 
Much Love to All,
Chaz |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 11:00:21 PM
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You're very wise and insightful, man. Really, you clearly know how to make broad strokes with your mind and cover a large distance. A sign of inner silence, in my opinion.
For me, shaking addictions is like whittling. You can't get rid of them all at once. It's shaving off pieces a little bit at a time, and they naturally "fall off", as you said by referencing Yogani. Now that I've been free of drugs/alcohol for a couple of years, I'm shaving off some of the other pesky cravings...like coffee and meat. It's all just a slow, persistent desire to purify the nervous system, and we have to be gentle all along the way (sorry if my prior post was abrasive and had an ominous tone...the topic just strikes a deep chord). Anyway, that's great that you're letting go of cigarettes and booze. And you shouldn't try to forcefully stop smoking pot. But if you want to stop, you can easily favor the abstinence, and IT WILL HAPPEN in due time.
This is the ISHTA I like to walk towards: an inner, natural condition that surpasses any high I had while on drugs. As soon as I accept that as a real possibility, then I am willing to walk slowly but surely towards the emerging sun on the horizon. And when the sun touches me with Its radiance and healing glory, then the confirmation draws me closer, with an effortless and Graceful magnetism.
Slow and steady wins the race, mate. I tip my hat to you. You are clearly in a good place in your heart and mind. |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Jul 17 2012 11:03:55 PM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2012 : 11:48:31 PM
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Whatever you choose, whether to smoke or abstain, I would suggest being totally honest with yourself about it.
Marijuana can be useful at a certain stage in your sadhana, and it can be a crutch at other stages.
I was a heavy smoker for many years. It dropped off naturally because the fruits of Yoga (inner silence, ecstasy, Divine Love) became much more pleasurable than smoking. Not "better", in a moralistic sense, just more enjoyable.
After a period of abstinence, I returned to smoking for a time because marijuana is Lord Shiva's herb (bom bom mahadev). For me it was a cop-out.
So my suggestion is to be honest with yourself. Don't force yourself to quit if you're not really into it, and don't use spirituality as an excuse to indulge.
If you wanna see if you're addicted, try "fasting" from cannabis for a week. Yogis fast from food sometimes, so why not cannabis?
That's all I have. 20 years in a few paragraphs.
Bom Bom Mahadev [img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2012 : 12:18:12 PM
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Great and honest replies here :)
Something that might be interesting to test out for you @Chaz, as it looks like you have lots of supply anyway, would be increasing the purity of the intake of the active substances within mj.
In the end burning smoke itself physically is not good for your lungs. And mj doesn't seem to burn well enough without the addition of tobacco which has its own side-effects aswell. There are ways to extract from mj via clean butane gas and a pipe. You may find a lot of videos on youtube if you search for "bho". Vaporized extract, means just heated but not burnt should be much more clean and may decrease a great amount of the unhealthy side effects. Vaporizers were pretty expensive in the past, but it seems like they got a lot cheaper the last years and there are mobile ones aswell.
There are other (cheaper) possible ways to extract from mj aswell. Just something that popped up after you mentioned the word "compromise". Good luck :) |
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Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 01:10:11 AM
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It's amazingly ironic how much more time and energy I tend to waste when I'm being lazy.
Not sure why I missed it when it was in the same forum (maybe I was really high), but this thread answered everything for me, though none of the responses here are taken for granted. 
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=8078
@Bodhi - Thanks bro. That's why I love being able to introspect here at these forums. My confessions here allow me to see what my mind usually denys. Your ideal for that inner state inspires me for the same. I have this sort of pride about being high 24/7 and doing everything as well as a sober person could. I think that's pretty commmon amongst us potheads, though it takes away from being able to explore the more mind opening capacities of being high. At any rate, a natural "high on life" state of mind would be great, and I think deep down that's the high I've really been chasing after. I've always admired people who were as goofy and stoned like as Cheech and Chong but never smoked a joint in their life. We definitely share this ishta my friend.
@Holy - I like your suggestion a lot. I will definitely keep it in mind, especially since the health of my lungs is an increasing concern, even after a long period of abstinence from cigarettes. Considering I use tabacco blunts almost always when I smoke, I imagine the amount of tabacco intake hasn't reduced much, which means it's still probably doing it's harm.
@Cosmic - Bom Bom Mahadev!
I really thought about it, and in being honest with myself I feel like for the first time in over 3 years I want to know what completely sober Chaz feels like. In fact he's dying to get out of the hazy cloud of smoke he's been suffocating in for so long. I want to feel my own natural high for once.
I've come to see how much of an identity I've built for myself out of my use of cannabis. In fact not a single person who knows me isn't aware of my use, I'm very blatant about it. My parents know, teachers knew, you all know. I think that's why it's gonna be so hard to kick it. Just thinking about me without the habit makes my mind go crazy. "But then what... Who will you be?" Is what it says. This is exactly why I want to get rid of the impulse to get high, the habit of smoking as a way to pass time, relax, enjoy being around friends, enhance activities, etc. It's just taken over and I don't know who I am without it, and that's a huge problem in my eyes. I'm letting it control me and my priorities, and I finally see the need to overcome that. Amazingly I never really considered all this so deeply until now, writing all this. (AYP magic, I'm telling you!)
I still have so much love and respect for cannabis, mary j is an amazing thing to be honest. I would love for my use of it to be a healthy indulgence, but right now frankly it isn't, and my use has been way past excess to even be able to see my abuse of it and the resulting negative effects. Plus I'm not okay with how spaced out I've been lately, my awareness can easily get caught up in thoughts at the exclusion of all else when I'm high sometimes.
I need to get back to my non-dependent state, make observations based on that and start using it wisely from that perspective. Otherwise I'm trapped and held hostage by this habit. So there's my truth written out for me. I'm hoping this will stick in my head and I'll remember next time a blunt comes my way. Too often I come to these kind of epiphanies but they never help much when it comes to applying their lessons in daily life. 
I'm going to give abstinence a shot and see where it goes and how long I can manage. My desire to be fully free of ALL lasting effects of marijuana is what my desire to constantly get high once was. I don't know how successful I'm going to be in this though, and it's likely a blunt will come along to tempt me not too long after writing this.
I know this is a little off topic, and it probably sounds a little counter-intuitive to use a substance to combat the addiction of another, but I feel deep down my inner guru has been calling me to have a DMT or Ayahuasca session, and if I'm correct I believe it is helpful for both detoxing the body and ridding addictions, among other desirable benefits. Can anyone speak on how helpful this might be? At this point in my life, I have an intuitive hunch that an experience with DMT will be very beneficial for me, though I have no way of obtaining any DMT OR the money for a trip down to South America. 
Other than that, can anyone offer up some information on detoxing so I can clear out the more long-term effects more quickly, or is that even any help? Also, as I mentioned earlier in this post the health of my lungs has been an increasing concern and I've coughed up some nasty sh*t lately and experienced some chest pains, so any advise on clearing them up and getting them back in shape? I'm sure the health of the lungs or lack thereof directly effects pranayama as well.
It's looking like my inner guru is calling me to see past the cloud of smoke for a change.
Thanks for your help,
Chaz |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 1:46:01 PM
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Hi Chaz,
I think you have most of the answers already. When it comes to ayahuasca, it makes the body suffer on other levels for the effects. For a clean trip, you would need to extract its active substance again and best just vaporize it. Yet DMT is way to crazy in my experience.
Even though the word "opening" is relative, I'd rate alc as 1, mj as 5, shrooms as 100, acid as 500 and DMT as 5k. In other words, it is way too much and would not really help in my opinion. It is like a baby that wants to learn walking on his feet and a father trying to explain to that baby how the atoms of his feet are created and are held in existence =P Even though it is the same object of attention, the perspective and interests with DMT are totally different.
At least shrooms and acid were much more practical in getting a broader perspective about what can be done for natural unfolding but even then only in low to mid doses and best only on a sunny day in the nature. With some people I observed extremely fearful reactions indoors with high doses at night who prior to that had very positive perspectives about practicing naturally with low-mid doses at sunshine =P And yet most people I know who enjoyed smoking for years before a e.g. shroom trip still continued afterwards. So testings like that may help to see that "better things" exist and can be done, but may not result in instant changes of behaviour which have accumulated over years. Physics always win in this :) Yet over the longterm someone who has seen more may use the insights for the best that can be done with this life on earth. The best relatively which is unique for everyone and ultimately speaking.
Wish you the best :) |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 20 2012 : 3:33:43 PM
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I myself don't go for chemical assistance, but I do know that it's very common in many
cultures. Even part of one of my own; I'm 1/4 Lakota Sioux. My granny was a full-blooded
Sioux medicine woman.
My question is about the 'dog' and similar animals.
It seems that some drugs like peyote, mushrooms, and maybe others seems to be associated
with seeing a specific type of animal or 'vision'.
I'm curious whether anyone has experienced this phenomenon and what they have to say about
it.
Kev |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 01:37:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaz
@Cosmic - Bom Bom Mahadev!
I'm glad you're open to trying something different (i.e. sober Chaz). That's where we grow and see where we're stuck - in new experiences.
Entered into with awareness, all experiences are the greatest guru.
Carry on brother!
3~D |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 1:20:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
I'm curious whether anyone has experienced this phenomenon and what they have to say about
it.
I too stay away from any chemical assistance, and I have done a dream incubation once with the intention of discovering my totem animal. The first dream I woke from was about being in my room surrounded by all sorts of mature wild cats who were also lounging about the room. I have always liked cats of all types, so that was a pleasant result, though I haven't gotten around to more dreaming yet. |
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Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 3:45:06 PM
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What's the significance of animal guides on a spiritual path and how can they help? Just wondering. 
For me I think DMT being classified as a psychedelic substance, or a drug period, is arguable. It is far more different than acid and shrooms of course, but I also view the experience itself not so much as an intoxicated state of consciousness like that of shrooms and acid, and that is why I don't believe it falls under the category of chemical assistance when used. I mean it's in our brains, in our bodies, all around in nature. It's a natural occurence when we are born, when we sleep, and when we die, our brains will inevitably flood with it at some point whether we ingest it or not. If this is the case and we still see it as a some intoxicating drug or whatever we might as well say the air we breathe falls under the same label. No doubt playing with the oxygene levels in the body can have effects on conciousness, we experience this daily with our practices. Is that to say that we are using chemical assistance? So in that respect, I see DMT in a very different light than that of shrooms, acid, and other psychedelics, and unlike experiencing a new state of consciousness as a result of intoxication, I think DMT reveals a sober, true state of consciousness that we will someday be in. Thus I don't see it as chemical assistance, because we aren't really relying on some outter substance to give us an opening, it's right here in our brains, flowing around all the time, though a little more regulated for our own good. I think of the intentional ingestion of DMT as a sort of "mind-hack" that speeds the whole process up to lightning speed and gives us a glimpse of our true nature. Kind of like what we are doing in yoga, only yoga is more superior and effects are more over the long-term. Does anyone disagree that visionary experiences that come from practice might be a result of a peak in DMT levels in the brain? It seems plausible.
So for me there lies the solid line drawn between DMT compared to all other psychedelics. Like you said, Holy, the opening it provides could probably be waaayyyy too much, way more than acid and shrooms, which give you a glimpse of truth though a little obscured. DMT will show you full blown truth, and for the average joe blow who hasn't had much experience with conciousness expansion, yoga practices and philosophy, it's probably a lot like a baby wanting to walk and a father trying to teach it to do so through advanced physics. Who knows, maybe the baby will grow up to be an atomic scientist one day. Don't underestimate the brain power of a baby, they soak everything up like a sponge. 
So anyways, those were just a few of my opinions on the DMT matter. Feel free to disagree. Just some food for thought and discussion.  |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 4:00:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AumNaturel
quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
I'm curious whether anyone has experienced this phenomenon and what they have to say about
it.
I too stay away from any chemical assistance, and I have done a dream incubation once with the intention of discovering my totem animal. The first dream I woke from was about being in my room surrounded by all sorts of mature wild cats who were also lounging about the room. I have always liked cats of all types, so that was a pleasant result, though I haven't gotten around to more dreaming yet.
Neat ;-)
Kev |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 8:07:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaz
What's the significance of animal guides on a spiritual path and how can they help? Just wondering.
Well some people like to meditate and concentrate upon 'deities'.
Seems like 'power animals' are in the same category, if your culture
venerates them.
Now not all 'power animals' and 'deities' are the same; on the lower
end models they are bundles of delusion powered by worship and they
feed on the husks of discarded 'soul substance'.
I'd have nothing to do with those ones.
At the upper end, they can be incredibly beautiful beings, who
live in the place where Atman lives.
The thing to keep in mind of course, is that all these temporary
beings are in need of liberation just like any other being.
(Various ancient texts have the 'gods' bowing down to Kundalini,
so this is documented. It also happens to be literal).
Some of these entities are still fairly self-important and noisy.
The silent witness is all the noise I want in my life ;-)
;-)
This is my take on it.
Kev |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 9:15:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaz
For me I think DMT being classified as a psychedelic substance, or a drug period, is arguable.
So for me there lies the solid line drawn between DMT compared to all other psychedelics.
This language is almost verbatim what I've been hearing from a good friend who is about your age. He took DMT quite a few times recently, and he was speaking almost exactly the way you are above. "DMT is produced in the body, therefore it's not a drug...it's not like LSD...it's a natural gateway...it's sacred..."...etc.
What it boils down to (in my opinion) is that you're deifying the chemical. The War on Drugs (the campaign of the DEA) demonizes drugs, but on the other end of the cultural spectrum (again, let's consider Grateful Dead fans), you find the deification of certain chemicals like DMT or LSD.
Having taken DMT before, I understand why you want to place it in a category by itself, because it's like a rocket ship ride compared to a slow stroll in the park, in terms of the intensity of experience. Super fast and super vivid. But, if you read Wikipedia, you'll see it's very much part of the psychedelic family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine.
Check out this AYP lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/65.html -- The Pineal and Pituitary Glands
"There is no doubt the pituitary and pineal glands are involved in the process of human spiritual transformation."
So, it's very likely that Spinal Breathing and Deep Meditation are increasing the production and release of DMT from the pineal gland.
But when we ingest it chemically/artificially, I think it's like taking steroids for muscles. It flares up the gland, but in the recovery stage, there is a weakening and drop-down from the normal baseline. Therefore, a muscle that is built via weightlifting will last much longer than one inflated by steroids because there is a full integration of the body/mind in accentuating the muscle's role and performance. Drugs bypass the full integration aspect (in my opinion), and therefore the body suffers because of the shortcut.
It's a marathon, not a sprint...the road to enlightenment, that is. |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2012 : 10:30:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by Chaz
For me I think DMT being classified as a psychedelic substance, or a drug period, is arguable.
So for me there lies the solid line drawn between DMT compared to all other psychedelics.
This language is almost verbatim what I've been hearing from a good friend who is about your age. He took DMT quite a few times recently, and he was speaking almost exactly the way you are above. "DMT is produced in the body, therefore it's not a drug...it's not like LSD...it's a natural gateway...it's sacred..."...etc.
What it boils down to (in my opinion) is that you're deifying the chemical. The War on Drugs (the campaign of the DEA) demonizes drugs, but on the other end of the cultural spectrum (again, let's consider Grateful Dead fans), you find the deification of certain chemicals like DMT or LSD.
Having taken DMT before, I understand why you want to place it in a category by itself, because it's like a rocket ship ride compared to a slow stroll in the park, in terms of the intensity of experience. Super fast and super vivid. But, if you read Wikipedia, you'll see it's very much part of the psychedelic family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine.
Check out this AYP lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/65.html -- The Pineal and Pituitary Glands
"There is no doubt the pituitary and pineal glands are involved in the process of human spiritual transformation."
So, it's very likely that Spinal Breathing and Deep Meditation are increasing the production and release of DMT from the pineal gland.
But when we ingest it chemically/artificially, I think it's like taking steroids for muscles. It flares up the gland, but in the recovery stage, there is a weakening and drop-down from the normal baseline. Therefore, a muscle that is built via weightlifting will last much longer than one inflated by steroids because there is a full integration of the body/mind in accentuating the muscle's role and performance. Drugs bypass the full integration aspect (in my opinion), and therefore the body suffers because of the shortcut.
It's a marathon, not a sprint...the road to enlightenment, that is.
Extremely well said.
Kev |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 12:44:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kevincann
This is my take on it.
Quite insightful perspective!
What Bodhi Tree speaks of is that important distinction that seems to make all the difference: there is nothing that replaces the skilled application of awareness repeatedly and over time to produce change towards some desired goal. It is like taking artificial hormones to mimic strength only to become weaker and dependent on them for survival, versus training to alter the functioning and its resulting structural changes on the body. Then there's the subtle body, which I think only awareness can truly exert a desired change (purification and opening). Many tools are available, and a great thing at that, just have to sometimes select among them depending on one's purpose. |
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Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 02:45:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by Chaz
For me I think DMT being classified as a psychedelic substance, or a drug period, is arguable.
So for me there lies the solid line drawn between DMT compared to all other psychedelics.
This language is almost verbatim what I've been hearing from a good friend who is about your age. He took DMT quite a few times recently, and he was speaking almost exactly the way you are above. "DMT is produced in the body, therefore it's not a drug...it's not like LSD...it's a natural gateway...it's sacred..."...etc.
What it boils down to (in my opinion) is that you're deifying the chemical. The War on Drugs (the campaign of the DEA) demonizes drugs, but on the other end of the cultural spectrum (again, let's consider Grateful Dead fans), you find the deification of certain chemicals like DMT or LSD.
Having taken DMT before, I understand why you want to place it in a category by itself, because it's like a rocket ship ride compared to a slow stroll in the park, in terms of the intensity of experience. Super fast and super vivid. But, if you read Wikipedia, you'll see it's very much part of the psychedelic family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine.
Check out this AYP lesson:
http://www.aypsite.org/65.html -- The Pineal and Pituitary Glands
"There is no doubt the pituitary and pineal glands are involved in the process of human spiritual transformation."
So, it's very likely that Spinal Breathing and Deep Meditation are increasing the production and release of DMT from the pineal gland.
But when we ingest it chemically/artificially, I think it's like taking steroids for muscles. It flares up the gland, but in the recovery stage, there is a weakening and drop-down from the normal baseline. Therefore, a muscle that is built via weightlifting will last much longer than one inflated by steroids because there is a full integration of the body/mind in accentuating the muscle's role and performance. Drugs bypass the full integration aspect (in my opinion), and therefore the body suffers because of the shortcut.
It's a marathon, not a sprint...the road to enlightenment, that is.
I have a lot of respect for these words, and you too Bodhi. I will keep this in mind, as well as what Aum said.
On another note, it's been over 3 days. Maybe 4... I don't even remember which day was the last day I smoked so maybe that's a good thing. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 2:49:38 PM
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Hi Chaz :)
Before the DMT tests I had the same thoughts as you. After the experiences they changed to some degree. The DMT in ayahuasca plants mostly contain nn-DMT and only in traces or none of the 5meo-DMT which has been naturally found in the body and brain of a human. The visual opening is very unnatural in my experience, unlike when it opens naturally like with fasting these days =P
And shrooms also contain 4-PO-DMT and 4-OH-DMT, so they are of the same family aswell. To my experience nn and 4-OH share a lot of characteristics, nn covering more subtle and visual openings. Yet without extraction both have their physical harm to the digestion system and body aswell.
When it comes to Bodhi's experience, I can share it too. All the substances including DMT-derivates cause openings and then you fall back below the level before. Recovering takes some days to weeks. Still it is way more smooth and subtle unlike mj here =P
At least here all of the substances had their colourings and limitations so the experience may inspire like hell but you can never fully know that later on the natural unfolding will be like that. I'm thankful for all the experiences back then. And I'm also happy that the phase has passed and the practices do their work of clearing the clouds more and more together with an ever more happy body-mind on all levels through that which is beyond all loving and joying all. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 22 2012 : 4:43:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chaz
[On another note, it's been over 3 days. Maybe 4... I don't even remember which day was the last day I smoked so maybe that's a good thing.
Bravo. Keep on truckin'. Here's a great book that you can order for about 4 bucks on Amazon...it's called "The Natural Mind"...highly recommend it:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Natural-M...tural+mind#_
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
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Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2012 : 02:19:12 AM
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Read both of those articles the day I posted my take on DMT here. Both are interesting reads. It still opens questions on what is the main purpose of DMT being always resident in our bodies, and what role it ultimately plays in nature as a whole.
Ahh the mysteries of the universe. Gotta love it. |
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