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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - May 18 2006 : 10:00:05 AM
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Chiron,
FYI, almost all stuff about supressed inventions is flim-flam. Suppressed major power-sources is I believe 100% flim-flam.
These people with the perpetual motion machines have a great story that the Big Power Companies (run, just like everything else, by the Little Man with the Fish-Bowl Glasses who Controls the World in his Small Room with the Fifty Video Screens) won't buy and wants to suppress their Cheap Power Machine, because it will put Big Oil out of business. Truth is, if you have such a Cheap Power Machine, you don't need anyone else to buy it. Just hook it up to a generator, and sell the electricity to the local grid. There are many places in the US now where you can sell your own home-made electricity back to the grid at a viable price. If you have such a Cheap Power Machine, you have a cash cow on your hands, and with the cash cow, access to every thing that The Little Man with the Fishbowl Glasses is supposed to be trying to keep from you. 
-D |
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 18 2006 4:02:51 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2006 : 5:55:22 PM
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Well David,
There is some truth in some of it and we have had an example of similarities in the UK. Within the last 10 yrs a professor at University of Liverpool ran an automobile with only coca cola and his secret ingredient for a full week with no ill effect to the engine. He said that it was only the additives that made the lubricant and that the engine oil did very little.Subsequently he sold the formula to one of the major oil companies.
Another guy(a barber of all people) invented a coating which protected things from heat and he actually demonstrated a raw egg coated and a blowlamp which could not cook the egg. He wouldn't sell as he didn't want ripping off and the scientists said it was only a matter of time before they discovered what he had found. He actually discovered a formula to a theory which scientists thought was not possible.
I'm sure there are many which are not genuine but even if there was an alternative power I believe it would be suppressed simply because the world economy is centred around oil and would probably collapse.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2006 : 2:27:14 PM
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Well, if I invent my own Cheap Power Machine which works, I'm going to make my way with my own cash cow as I described above. After I get my patent, and sell my own cheap power, I'll eventually have money to rival the Sheiks of Arabia and I'll just buy out the Little Man with the Fish-Bowl Glasses who Controls the World in his Small Room with the Fifty Video Screens. 
And I'll put on his fish-bowl glasses, and control the world from there myself. The Little Man really is no excuse for not taking over the world yourself, once you have the Cheap Power Machine Which Works and Isn't a Scam. 
All in light-hearted fun.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 19 2006 2:30:00 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 20 2006 : 5:30:57 PM
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I agree with David. nothing has been shown to transcend the first laws of thermodynamics or conservation of energy so far. Not even slightly. The conspiracy theory types would like to believe it's possible because it adds to their belief in the evil of big corporations.
While there is some truth in the greed of big corporations; for instance big oil companies refine more oil when the prices are high, I really don't think they suppress other energy sources, other than propoganda. For instance, the story here in the US is that alcohol takes more energy to refine than it produces. bur that's because they've been making it out of corn and subsidising corn farmers.
This year Brazil will be completely energy independent from the rest of the world, and US carmakers sell cars there that switch from alcohol to gas easily. They make the alcohol out of sugar cane, and it's much more productive than corn.
The suppression theories just don't hold up under scrutiny. If it is true that big oil is supremely greedy (it probably is), and they got their hands on a "free" energy scheme, doesn't it make more sense to try and lock up all the patents in the world, and sell it to every manufacturer in the world, before it gets stolen by another big oil company? the fact is, these things don't work.
There was a "Pogue carburetor" invented a long time ago that was supposed to get 100 miles to the gallon when most cars got 14 mpg or less. Rumors were that car makers were suppressing it, or big oil. It worked on the principle of better vaporization by preheating the fuel and swirling air. It did get 100 miles per gallon under controlled conditions. But it wouldn't work under all temperature and humidity conditions around the world. They worked on it for years, and nothing came of it, except the swirling air modifications in Chevy vortex engines, and Ford bought the idea for their trucks too. But after it was made reliable, it was just somewhat better than old engines, then fuel injection proved to make much more difference. The car makers had worked on the same principles as Pogue, but couldn't make them reliable. I saw the plans for original pogue carbs, and stories of a lot of private experiments with it. The results weren't scientifically recorded, because Pogue *wanted* it to work so badly.
Then there was the car that ran on water. It used the battery to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. Some guy claimed to have a super way to do it and had plans on the internet. He had pictures of three or so cars that ran on water, and records of the mileage, etc. He would start on gas, then switch to hydrogen. It was never seriously investigated because it violates the laws of physics. Anyone can tell by looking at the plans that it could not produce enough hydrogen to run the alternator that generated the electricity. But the stories still run rampant about that guy's cars.
his records are doctored too because he *wanted* it to work.
The fact is, there are hundreds of people stealing millions of dollars worth of industrial secrets every year. since "free energy" is worth *billions*, as soon as the word got out that somebody had it, there would certainly be a lot of people trying to steal the secret and sell it. Even if the technology was given away, there's be nobel prizes, commercial endorsements, speeches, etc you could get rich on. After all, you would have changed the world. So I think it's impossible for someone to develop something like that and keep it secret. And if they sold it to big oil, wouldn't the oil company have to shoot them? They'd still have this multi-billion dollar idea in their head that would destroy big oil.
No, if big oil is ever destroyed in this way, the fat cats with the money won't be, because they're smart enough to diversify their holdings. It's the employees of big oil that would really lose. And anybody who brags about free energy either doesn't have it, or his idea has already been stolen and sold to someone else, who would have to market it before it's stolen again. So it's impossible to keep such a secret.
Maybe some spiritual person could keep such a secret, but if I had it, I would give it away to the whole world at once, to promote peace. Most wars involve oil. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 08:41:19 AM
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Just like the 'Pogue Caruburettor', other 'suppressed inventions' just have enormous limitations and are junked because of it. The inventors don't want to admit that, and their egos and the conspiracy-theorists get together to present a deceptive story.
There are many examples. Another is, it is possible to make a more efficient automobile using special metal alloys with special thermal properties which can be allowed to reach much higher temperatures. (You know, your car system works hard to continually cool the engine.)
Is big oil suppressing it? No, though it makes a good conspiracy story. Wouldn't you just love to see the Little Man yelling through a video screen to one of his worried minions to suppress this?
So why aren't we driving these things? Because we can't afford them, that's why. The alloys are much too expensive to produce. End of story.
But the 'Little Man' story is more exciting, isn't it? Many stories move around, not because they are true, but because they make good copy. They move around and are believed because they are fun to read and believe.
This is part of a bigger issue about 'truth' among human beings, and it has a big impact on religious/spiritual belief as it plays out in populations.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on May 21 2006 08:42:14 AM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 11:35:39 AM
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| Just want to add that this is a really good example of how easy people can be convinced by psuedo-science; and how skillful some people are capable of convincing the others, even though they are very bad in real science. The mechanism of such successful lies are somewhat interesting. Anyone have an account of it? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 8:18:28 PM
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Yes they have ceramic engines that withstand much more heat also, but as soon as it's feasible they'll be used.
Alvin,
Michael Moore is an example of that. He has propogated a body of lies against people in power because he has a captive audience who want to believe such things. A small percentage of his stories is true, and the rest are based on truth, but are either not true at all, or no longer true, or out of context, etc.
He grew up in a car manufacturing town that was put mostly out of business when car makers made job cuts. So his audience is union people who have lost jobs and blame big corporations, and anyone else who hates big corporations and their allies.
Of course, big tobbacco stories really fuel the conspiracy theory lovers, because they actually did do a lot to supress information, and mis-educate. But it is so easy to fool people, most of the large corporations who wish to do that don't even have to resort to lies. For instance, I believe a large percentage of diseases we have today are caused by dehydration. people drink everything BUT plain water, and think it hydrates them, but it doesn't. All the big drug companies have to do is give statistics about the prevalence of these diseases, and how studies have shown their drug to help, and they sell drugs! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 8:42:48 PM
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Well, I suppose we are onto the business of propaganda. When people have a cause, they start to think, well, the cause is good, I can tell a few fibs for the sake of the cause. Then the fibs build up, and you have propaganda.
People acquiesce in propaganda all the time: maybe they don't like a certain policy or act of government, or set of ways, or institution, or the patriarchy or whatever. They are opposed to something, then they start supporting lies against it. Lies: exaggerations, misattributed motives, only-one-half-of-a-story-s, you know the thing.
Someone said, 'The first victim of war is truth'. You could take it further: The first victim of fighting is truth. (Hey, there's a quotable! )
Ether: let's start AYP Cormudgeon's Weekly.....
Putting it in context of spirituality, well, I suppose one important thing is to understand these mechanisms in ourselves. To see them, and to stop them in their tracks.
And most of all, to value Truth. To hate the business of telling lies for political gain, or self-empowerment, to call it when we see it, and to stay out of it.
Question: Is there yoga Propaganda?
My answer: in the broad sense, yes, in the Yoga world. Particularly in the matter of 'telling lies' in one way or another for self-empowerment -- organizations do that all the time, some of them highly esteemed by many people here.
As Ali G said: Keep it real.
Respeck!
-Obsidian
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2006 : 6:35:34 PM
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David wrote:
"When people have a cause, they start to think, well, the cause is good, I can tell a few fibs for the sake of the cause."
i agree. I see a lot of that. Sometimes it's intentional. Sometimes people believe so strongly in their cause that they don't practice ethical journalism, and find half the truth, and stop. Then sometimes people admire someone else so much they believe what that person writes without checking the sources. but whether it's religion or some other cause, the culprit is blind faith, believing in something strongly rather than believing in the quest for the whole truth.
I heard a guy on the radio upset about the Davinci Code and repeating over and over that it tries to destroy "everything we believe to be true about Jesus."
I'm thinking wait a minute, it doesn't attempt to destroy any of Jesus' true teachings about how to treat each other, how to pray, etc.
But this guy was so fixated on all the sensationalism and none of the everyday guidance offered by Jesus. The resurrection, the divinity, the celibacy, the male domination, was "everything" to him. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2006 : 08:29:50 AM
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| Don't be fooled by the sparks. These are the same things you can do with a normal cutting torch. It does look like an improvement in combustion, but it's not free power. It still needs more energy put in to it than it gets out at the torch. I do think the reporter is fooled by it though, and makes it sound so amazing with that movie trailer voice! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2006 : 09:27:02 AM
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It's about a flame that is only warm to the touch, but quickly burns through metal. No big deal -- that principle is ancient. Those types of cutters have chemicals in the flame which react with the metal, releasing a lot of heat, thus 'burning' the metal.
They don't burn the human hands because there isn't much to react with in the human hand.
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2006 : 12:39:09 PM
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| That's cool Melissa. Open your mind and create new realities. Don't let a healthy, scientific scepticism become negativity. Negativity can be a black hole of non-movement. Let the creativity be free of negativity and see what ever-new possibilities might open up. Like, where there's a will there's a way |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2006 : 10:13:58 PM
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just because somebody says he is doing something doesn't mean he is.
This water fuel scam has been going on for many years under different names.
I don't mean to be negative. I just don't like seeing somebody bilking people out of their money with pseudo science babble. He's getting a lot of money from investors, selling licenses, and future IPO. The video and his patent are full of flaws and misrepresentations. He did a good job of constructing his hoax though. If you google it, you can find sub atomic physicists laughing at it and commending him for making it look so real to gullible news people.
But his system is analogous to getting all the cash advances you can on your credit cards and putting it in a savings account to make money. Then you sell people courses on how to do it.
As far as where there's a will there's a way- there are a lot of alternative fuel technologies out there that are very good, and a lot of people working on developing them. none of them are perpetual motion machines, however like this guy's. If you don't see what i mean- water comes out of the exhaust pipe. Route that back into the gas tank- voila;
perpetual motion!
but having said that, I do believe Melissa can walk when everybody said she couldn't, and that certainly IS a miracle. I fully believe the human body can do much much more than people give it credit for, and actually that is something I'm working on myself. I think a lot of the problems people have that they blame on aging are something else very simple to remedy; lack of exercise, not enough water, not enough greens, negative attitudes etc.
I definitely applaud all the energy people are putting into alternative energy. The oil companies are screwing themselves because the more gas costs, the more incentive there is to develop alternative fuels! Brazil will be totally energy independent this year, mostly due to alcohol from sugar cane. US made flex-fuel cars are sold there, while at the same time they tell us alcohol cannot be cost-effectively produced! |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2006 : 10:36:30 PM
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Hey Ether
I know there are a lot of scams out there. I really don't know anything about the inventors you guys are talking about. I was just giving a thumbs up for being positive. Negativity can breed more, you know.
With everything I've bashed my body with (hard labor, hard liquor, hard drugs, hard emotions, hard etc.) I do pretty well at keeping youthful with the ol' body.
Positively yours, alan
P.S. I believe energy is free and all around. We just need to find the keys for tapping in. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2006 : 01:10:11 AM
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Alan wrote:"I believe energy is free and all around. We just need to find the keys for tapping in."
Yes, there is a lot of energy available that doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics.
It comes from the sun and the earth; oil, wood, wind, hydroelectric, bio-diesel, alcohol, photovoltaics, fuel cells, fusion, geo-thermal, geo-electric, geo-magnetic, the tides,
hemp oil will run diesels, cellulose eating bacteria that produce alcohol, etc. There are amazing advances in battery technology, and If there was an efficient way to store thermal energy, we'd have all the power we need already. Store all the heat from deserts and take it to heat homes. I believe amazing things will come from all of these.
Energy is the most powerful peacemaker in the world. (not counting meditation!) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2006 : 07:42:50 AM
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Absolutely. That's a lot of what AYP is about. You certainly can't get very far being self centered and within your own box. i know people who are like that and they are not fun to be around.
Realizing there is a power outside yourself is the first giant step in spirituality. i am blessed personally to not have a problem with boredom. I do have to often make adjustments in my perception to keep from getting in a rut. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2007 : 01:17:19 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Free Energy: The Race to Zero Point
