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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2012 : 3:00:09 PM
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There has been some talk about I AM not being a traditional sanskrit bija (seed) mantra and I want to put that to rest.
I had been going over various mantras that I learned in Ayurveda school back in the 80s and one came back to me. It was a chant of bija mantras that went "OM AYAM RHEEM KLEEM CHAMUN DIYA VICHAY". This was chanted at fire ceremonies and at various ceremonial times and each of the bija mantras seperatly could be given out for personal meditation such as "OM RHEEM NAMAHA" or "OM KLEEM NAMAHA" or "OM AYAM NAMAHA" etc. Essentially this is completely consistent with Yogani's teaching of the mantra so I just wanted to clarify this and resolve any doubts on the I AM mantra. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
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Delara
Lebanon
305 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 4:16:04 PM
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Hello Victor;
When I went to India,Tiru...among all the mantras I was given "IAM" mantra...I couldn't but laugh as already I've been practicing yogani's IAM only to be given IAM again.
they use it over there too  |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 4:25:36 PM
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Hi Victor & All,
As has been discussed a few times over the years, and as Yogani has clarified:
I AM as a mantra is, like all mantras, about the sound, and not about the meaning of the words that the sound(s) may comprise, in any given language - thus, I AM can also be rendered as AYAM - which is a Sanskrit term meaning This, and is used in various Sanskrit mantras, either as a separate word/phrase, or as part of a longer word/phrase.
And so, the sound AYAM (I AM) is fully valid as mantric sound, as far as traditional views of such things go, in yogic traditions. |
Edited by - Kirtanman on May 07 2012 7:18:08 PM |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 5:46:59 PM
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| I also recognized AIM from a book on sanskrit mantras that looks authentic and up to scholarly standards. No doubt legitimate, even if we are reminded to not dwell on its past and just use it starting here, now and onwards. Thanks for sharing. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 5:50:05 PM
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Does a 'mantric sound' come from a praying mantis?  |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 6:34:08 PM
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| That's the one, Christi. Is AIM and I AM different? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 7:09:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
That's the one, Christi. Is AIM and I AM different?
AIM is one-syllable ("I'm"), AYAM is two syllables ("I Am").
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 7:15:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Does a 'mantric sound' come from a praying mantis?
LOL!
Only when it's at AUM ...... |
Edited by - Kirtanman on May 11 2012 8:44:35 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2012 : 10:24:40 PM
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 03:02:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
That's the one, Christi. Is AIM and I AM different?
It's not massively different is it?
It reminds me of Pooh bear: "My spelling is wobbly, and sometimes the letters get in the wrong places".
In India I used to use the mantra: "Om aim shreem hreem saraswati devye namaha" which was given to me by my Guru. Aim is slightly different to IAM in practice, but there is not a great deal in it. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 03:03:18 AM
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| Welcome back Kirtanman. |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 03:39:51 AM
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i am shall be the Christ center in the pituitory gland the I am of old Testament as a sort of personal ishta which are many and not great brahma, shiva or krishna in indian denomination. Questions of monotheism and polytheism are secondary in Indian belief and expression of the same. Trinity would be complete by the spirit of I Am He used in SRF in forgotten Sanskrit perhaps in the navel.
KLEEM is for another location on the back of the skull.
It's rather useless discussing some sanskrit words without their context and function and around the body and the indian interpretation of Christian belief.
Axel |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 2:59:18 PM
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| Hhmm.. I thought that 'aim' is pronounced with a long 'A' as in 'came'. Can you clarify how aim is pronounced? |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 6:52:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Welcome back Kirtanman.
Thanks, Christi!!
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 9:35:21 PM
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| That's my basic point. the english word "aim" is pronounced like "came" the sanskrit mantra "aim" is pronounced like "ahyim" which for me when repeated silently feels the same as "ayam" or the AYP "i am" mantra. I never did understand why people quibble over subtle pronunciation of a sound that is repeated silently. In my experience it simply flows along and the sound pretty much finds its own pronunciation. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2012 : 11:06:45 PM
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| Silent sound ha! Kinda like the color blackish white. |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2012 : 01:30:14 AM
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And what's about the difficulties when I am becomes Aeeunng or shivers in other ways?
Is it allowed that it does this way nearer to aum as person often report, but unheard by this list seeing beginners as faultive.
Axel |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2012 : 02:26:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LittleTurtle
Hhmm.. I thought that 'aim' is pronounced with a long 'A' as in 'came'. Can you clarify how aim is pronounced?
The Sanskrit word "aim" is a short a and short i. So "a" as in the English "and", "i" as in the English word "igloo" and "m" as in the English word "mini". |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2012 : 1:55:05 PM
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| Thanks Victor and Christi |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2012 : 8:43:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LittleTurtle
Hhmm.. I thought that 'aim' is pronounced with a long 'A' as in 'came'. Can you clarify how aim is pronounced?
Hi Little Turtle,
As I mentioned in another comment, the Sanskrit AIM is pronounced as a like the English "I'm", and is a single syllable, as all bija mantras are, by definition (as opposed to the mantras AYAM or I AM, which are two syllables in length).
In Sanskrit, this mantra (AIM) contains just two letters - Ai, and the slightly-nasalized "m", known as bindu, or anusvara.
Reference Link: Sanskrit Alphabet Chart
Helpful Instructional Pronunciation video for the AIM bija mantra.
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Edited by - Kirtanman on May 11 2012 9:46:45 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2012 : 8:54:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
That's my basic point. the english word "aim" is pronounced like "came" the sanskrit mantra "aim" is pronounced like "ahyim" which for me when repeated silently feels the same as "ayam" or the AYP "i am" mantra. I never did understand why people quibble over subtle pronunciation of a sound that is repeated silently. In my experience it simply flows along and the sound pretty much finds its own pronunciation.
Hi Victor,
No worries - but just to clarify, AIM is specifically a bija, or seed mantra, which all (bija mantras) consist of single syllables, by definition.
And so, the bija mantra AIM is pronounced like the English "I'm".
Just as Yogani has discussed some of the energetic differences between AUM and I AM, there are also energetic differences between single-syllable and multiple-syllable pronunciations.
Example:
Pronunciation video for the AIM bija mantra
I'm not "quibbling", btw -- just passing on the info, for whatever it may be worth.
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2012 : 10:48:58 PM
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| Thanks Kirtanman |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2012 : 12:10:47 AM
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| Just to quibble , the English word "I'm" is a subtle contraction of the English words "I am". If you repeat either one for awhile they come out the same, especially if you say it fairly rapidly. Perhaps the difference is more noticable if said very slowly. I still believe that the AYP "I AM" mantra is the same as the bija "Ayim" but maybe thats just me. Feels quite different than "Aum" which drops much more into the belly rather than rising in the spine like "I am". That is my subjective sensation anyway |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2012 : 6:38:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
Just to quibble , the English word "I'm" is a subtle contraction of the English words "I am". If you repeat either one for awhile they come out the same, especially if you say it fairly rapidly. Perhaps the difference is more noticable if said very slowly. I still believe that the AYP "I AM" mantra is the same as the bija "Ayim" but maybe thats just me. Feels quite different than "Aum" which drops much more into the belly rather than rising in the spine like "I am". That is my subjective sensation anyway
Hi Victor,
No worries --- "quibble away".
Maybe a better way to say it is:
The Sanskrit letter Ai is pronounced like the English "I", and the bija mantra AIM is that sound, followed by a slightly-nasalized "m" (as described in the video I linked to).
I just used "I'm" as an example, because for most of us, in most situations, the bija mantra AIM and the English contraction "I'm" sound essentially identical.
And, again, for what it's worth: bija mantras are technically single-syllable.
In my opinion, mantras have two key facets:
1. The energy dynamics, as you mentioned.
2. The mind-focus, which facilitates the revealing of inner silence.
The latter facet is the most important, by far, in my opinion and experience. This is why, I feel, meditation has proven to be so effective, in so many of the world's spiritual traditions, regardless of the mantra or other sacred sound which is repeated as part of meditation practice (though some consideration is usually given to the specific sounds/vibrations which are used, of course).
In both those ways, AYP's I AM (AYAM) mantra seems to be at least as effective as any other, based on practitioners' results -- which I'd say is the important part, and is what actually makes it "legitimate" (hard to argue with what works).
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2012 : 04:24:06 AM
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Hi all,
Not wishing to quibble, but...
There is a slight difference between the Sanskrit mantra AIM and the English word I'm. AIM has a slightly pronounced short 'i' in the middle of it. Imagine the English word aisle and then taking the 'sle' bit off the end and putting an 'm' on, that would be pretty close.
This is why I AM and AIM are not the same... AIM has a short 'i' and I AM doesn't.
You can hear it in the youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMJ4eqHSCFs
Christi |
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legitimacy of the sanskrit mantra "I AM"
