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KellyN
75 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 2:42:21 PM
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Hi all,
Lately I have been experiencing movement inside my body. Lets see, I have felt movement going up my legs from my ankles. It almost feels like a very soft internal caress. Also, I have been feeling some movement inside my lower abdomen. It feels like the movements of a baby, I should know...I have 2 small children. I am definitely NOT pregnant but it does feel like a baby's gentle movements. It does not last long but it has happened several times and it has happened within and without meditation. Could this be Kundalini? Forgive my ignorance...I am still learning about all this. I am also reading "Kundalini Rising." Hope this is not my imagination :)
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Edited by - AYPforum on Apr 18 2012 12:13:11 PM |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 4:10:44 PM
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Eve in paradise was bite in the heels by a snake. Jesus shouted at snake initiates. In the initial experience of zen enlighted Gerta Ital krept a kundalini snake upwards from the toes. Visiting Odissi Krishna and Gopi love dances let two snakes my spine ending there heads in my heart etc.
Was it the hole leg or inside the heel? Movements where babies are are at least an energy process as in the Chinese sea of energy below the navel perhaps as lower dantien by earth or kidney energy from the ground. Perhaps also the second and water chakra Swaddhistana. Perhaps a halt of kundalini resting there in a circle as mine in the heart.The 3 1/2 circles in the muladhara are known.
Axel
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 4:18:30 PM
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Hi Kelly,
Yes, there are two energy channels that run up each leg. When they become active it can feel like you are being caressed from the inside. In later stages it becomes an ecstatic movement. Many things happen in the belly area. There are the two chakras of the swadistana in the lower belly and the manipura at the solar plexus. Either of these can feel like movement is happening when they become active. There are also physical processes which happen in the stomach and these can cause strange movements.
Kundalini is the only thing which causes energy movements in the legs (unless there is a healer present) so I would say it is safe to assume the other movements are K also.
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 6:23:24 PM
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I can also confirm about the belly movements. And I've had three babies. Some of the movements do feel like a baby moving, or kicking!  |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 6:33:34 PM
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| Same here... something moving around in my belly, and it's not me. Chakrababies. |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 10:21:55 PM
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"Chakrababies." 
haha good one |
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KellyN
75 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2012 : 11:41:55 PM
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| so glad it's average, as far as I can tell from your posts. it was my right leg today but I have felt it on both legs simultaneously before. I have been reading Yogani's posts and hope I'm,doing all this right. I just started reading the mudras, bandhas book too. I haven't done the asanas yet but am hoping to soon. mode of physical activity has always been so intense: run, kickbox, step...Ha! Chakrababies is a pretty funny way of describing my current experiences...thank you! |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 05:46:04 AM
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It is not always kundalini coming upwards but also earth and kidney energy opening till into the mouth around the eyes and coming out of the crown grounding the whole body in soft energies.
The list is right. The possibility of a spiritual fetus kicking you exists also created by good and sufficient sexual energies and an input from the liver inseminating it. It is a pre-form of the immortal body growing through the centers upwards till leaving the head.
But also the trauma of an abortion may kick you later.
Axel |
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KellyN
75 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2012 : 08:16:49 AM
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| To Axel: So the liver and kidneys can release energy into the abdomen? I was not aware of that. Yes, I have had the feeling that something is growing inside me. It is impossible that I am pregnant at this time -but I had the same feelings when I carried my babies a few years ago. This experience has only occurred a few times and it is not painful or disturbing, just strange and somewhat unsettling. Once, I instinctively put my hand on my lower abdomen, as I did so many times when I had a baby growing inside me. This is wondrous and strange all the same! |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 06:37:27 AM
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dear Kelly, what i am writing stems from the taoist tradition, where your energies can coagulate to a spiritual fetus as your real self, not another baby for later uniting with your cosmic self as Dr. Baolin Wu describes in his book. The soul or semen for it is given by the hun soul of the liver or putting aroused sexual energy into the liver in Kan & Li of Mantak Chia spitting it into the navel for fertilization. A sort of spiritual rebirth uniting the energies before and behind the navel.
Axel
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 12:08:05 PM
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Hi Kelly,
As Axel has mentioned, in Taoist internal alchemy, there is a process of building an immortal fetus which congeals and takes form in the lower abdomen. The immortal fetus is an actual congealment of energy and awareness birthed into form within the lower abdomen, a spirtual fetus so to speak. After taking form and maturing through refinement, it is taught how to egress out the crown, form and awareness maintained. If one is interested in the actual practices of acquiring such, he/she could study with Mantak Chia (Thailand) or Michael Winn (USA).
In the internal alchemy taught by Mantak Chia, the process of cultivating the immortal fetus begins in earnest with the practice of the mid-level internal alchemy formulas know as the Kan and Li(s) (Lesser, Greater and Greatest). Opening the leg channels and other channels of the energy body, microcosmic orbit, belt channel, thrusting, bridge and regulator channels, balancing the internal elements related to various organs and cultivating a more refined internal chi through use of the tao elemental creative cycle part of the alchemy fusion practices taught by Mantak and Michael are all pre-requisite to this. Mantak has published books on the Fusion practices. Instruction for the Kan and Li(s) have not been published in books but PDFs can be found through internet googling. However, I don't know but doubt they have been authorized by Mantak since it is proprietary material and I believe to date only handed out in the actual classes.
When the immortal fetus is cultivated consciously, at least in the taoist sense, it is a process that differs in technique from the direct cultivation of pure awareness through DM and the traditional awakening of kundalini and corresponding energies in the pelvic and lower abdominal regions of the physical body that one experiences with AYP. However, that said, who's to say that for some it might not begin to occur naturally, as a continuation of previous experience cultivated in other lifetimes of similar alchemy practice.
One thing to note and this is important is that acquiring a Taoist immortal body is not synonymous with the highest stages of sahaja samadhi or returning home where all separation is dissolved and one becomes a permanent part of the Love.
quote:
Building The Immortal Body
In the practice of internal alchemy, we learn to circulate qi (life-force energy), to sublimate jing (sexual energy), and to distil shen (spiritual energy). As we engage in these practices, our subtle bodies are gradually awakened. In other words, we become aware of ourselves as energetic as well as physical beings. As we progress, this process deepens, until eventually the physical (or yin) aspects of ourselves are transmuted entirely into the higher-vibrating yang body of light. This, in short, is the path to becoming a Taoist Immortal.
Central to this process is the creation of an Immortal Fetus a congealing of awakened energy in the lower dantian. According to Master Mantak Chia, the practitioner accomplishes this by first planting the seed of soul/spirit into jing/sexual energy. This is the mystical union in which we become pregnant with the new life of the Immortal Fetus. As we nurture and grow this Fetus, and gradually transfer our consciousness into it, we transform our physical body into a body of Light. Whatever portion of our body has been transformed in this way can be taken with us at the time of death. (A process equivalent or at least similar to what in Buddhism is known as the attainment of the Rainbow Body.)
Steve
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Edited by - Steve on Apr 18 2012 12:23:42 PM |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 12:13:02 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 3:13:16 PM
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Hi Steve,
although your conclusions are not always right in a special discussion on Mantak Chia I will not lead here good food for thought. The original cleanliness of the stages till oneness with the tao producing astral gold and cinnabar in Kan & li is not upheld and the master stuck in ugly colors as socalled darkroom for everyone. The costless materials to be found in the internet even with stage 5 as sealing of the five senses on youtube in Moscow in the summing up shows good marketing but not quality very different to his presently favored healing courses for everyone. I see no realizations also with the pupils. Taking pieces of Kan & Li like the organ o rgasms in first lack the necessary refinement for a good heart orgasm e.g. You cannot keep a steady line as a new continent like Bresil or Russia is needed for getting higher courses he is like many pieces he is not sufficiently training himself.
You draw correctly lines from the fetus to the bodies outside the body. But this the cleansing techniques of fusion before Kan&li with different forms of pearls building up ouside bodies standing on the head or multiplied with the famous silvery cord till the moon or mounting even the pole star like the monkey in the journey to the west.
The connection is the cauldron of the fetus multiplied in the cosmos or into the ground I invented for a poor lady dwindling her muscles and losing more and more her walking ability. The fetus of the Dragon gate sect of Dr Baolin Wu becomes in the taoist pure lands pieces of cosmic dust uniting the two fetus to one like Plato´s halves. You find and use in these techniques also a personal star.
The test if it is a fetus may be speaking with it as a sort of inner child or getting in contact with it as a psychological process working with your subpersonalities. But be cautious. A psychiatrist you have a multiple personality disorder not accepting a Jungian analytical work.
Axel
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2012 : 8:13:12 PM
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Hi Axel,
Thanks for your comment and input. They are appreciated. I am not here to debate the efficacy of Mantak's methods. I am neither a proponent for or against them. They have their limitations. Some of which you noted. However, for those new to taoist alchemy, the beginning workshops have published texts that are available to the general public. And there is value in learning to open the microcosmic orbit and other channels, transforming negative emotions into positive energy, cultivating a more refined virtue energy, learning about the dan tien and proper ways for grounding and storing energy internally if that is important to you.
Michael's teaching of the taoist alchemy formulas differ from Mantak's. Pearls outside the body, etc. are not part of Michael's teachings. And the specifics of the Kan and Li(s) practice as well as the formulas beyond the Kan and Li that Michael teaches also differ in critical aspects from Mantak's. How authentic Michael's teaching are compared to some of the ancient tao masters I cannot say. I can only speak from the direct experience gained with each having worked and practiced with Mantak in the 1980(s) through the Kan and Li(s) and Michael in the 90(s) beginning again with his version of the Fusion practices and continuing through the practice of Congress of Heaven and Earth. The main point of the post was to share with Kelly that there exists a possibility that an actual real spiritual fetus can form and be nourished within the lower abdomen and that this was different than just awakening energies in the pelvic and lower abdominal regions.
Perhaps for others on the forum who are interested in learning more about the actual practice of taoist alchemy, you could share recommendations on the path and teachers you follow. That would be helpful to any who may like to pursue it more deeply.
Please know, I am appreciative of your postings and sharings. Thanks again.
Love and Light,
Steve
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Edited by - Steve on Apr 18 2012 9:47:28 PM |
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KellyN
75 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:02:56 AM
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| Wow, I am in amazed confusion right now. This process has simply humbled me in depths that vast education and life experiences have not reached. I am questioning so many of my so-called rational thoughts and seeing the limitations with which my "ego" (wow I truly despise that term) perceives, analyses, interprets and reacts to the world. I can't stop correcting my verbage, especially when negatively focused. I am sternly aware of my reactivity and the emotion I readily go to (anger) when my perception is that I am not in "control" of something. I took pride, at one point, in being described as "A Type." Now, I just intuit the error of such pride and arrogance. My soul is gentle...that I have always known. Most of my adult life, I tried to squash feelings of perceived vulnerability through ACTION. Ventures that I now perceive as sometimes unnecessary, because sometimes vulnerability is nothing more than sensitivity...and sensitivity to all life is not such a bad thing ;) "Wow" is all I can say about all this. I have ALWAYS been interested and attracted to spiritual (non religious) pursuits, and I can honestly say that all this feels familiar in some odd way. I ask the questions of my current experiences to supportive people such as yourselves with an almost intuitive answer unfolding within me. Though most of what you, especially Steve and Axel, have mentioned so eloquently is absolutely appreciated and rings of truth, I have to say that it feels like YOU are the Ph.D explaining the theory of relativity to the proverbial toddler (at this time). I believe that in Past lives, I may have reached or wanted to reach higher levels of awareness and that trend/effort has carried over to this life. I am excited, confused, aware and unaware, raw and guarded. AND, this is just the beginning, I gather! Ok...breathe! "I Am....." Just did :) yes, I am on a path of truth seeking and have in some ways accepted what may unfold before and within me. I can't say that the acceptance arrives in the absence of fear. I am afraid, still. These are uncharted waters and I am a captain without a map. Intuition is leading my human spiritual blindness and it hungers for more of this truth-quest. I have to trust that my "self" would not lead me to danger. I follow Yogani's words as if they were droplets of water in a desert. I thank you all for your support. Virtual strangers and yet...not. K~ |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 01:33:00 AM
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Kelly,
Ahhhhhh  .... Your response touches my core, so genuine and authentic. phd I am not, simply humbled in your presence. Thanks so much for sharing your Self.
Much Love to you,
Steve
PS. A wise man once said confusion is a high state of consciousness for it silences the mind and lets the heart take reign. Your heart rings true and will be of assist to many. |
Edited by - Steve on Apr 19 2012 01:52:57 AM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 04:35:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by KellyN
I am questioning so many of my so-called rational thoughts and seeing the limitations with which my "ego" (wow I truly despise that term) perceives, analyses, interprets and reacts to the world.
Dear KellyN,
My advice would be not to go from one extreme to another; don't start a war on Ego - Ego has its usefulness in this physical world we live in and should be treated with due care or it will turn around and bite us on the bum the moment we think we are rid of it. Yogani has a very nice statement somewhere about needing Ego to saw off the branch it is sitting on - referring to meditation as the saw.
warm regards,
Sey |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 09:14:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hi Axel,
Thanks for your comment and input. They are appreciated. I am not here to debate the efficacy of Mantak's methods. I am neither a proponent for or against them. They have their limitations. Some of which you noted. However, for those new to taoist alchemy, the beginning workshops have published texts that are available to the general public. And there is value in learning to open the microcosmic orbit and other channels, transforming negative emotions into positive energy, cultivating a more refined virtue energy, learning about the dan tien and proper ways for grounding and storing energy internally if that is important to you.
Michael's teaching of the taoist alchemy formulas differ from Mantak's. Pearls outside the body, etc. are not part of Michael's teachings. And the specifics of the Kan and Li(s) practice as well as the formulas beyond the Kan and Li that Michael teaches also differ in critical aspects from Mantak's. How authentic Michael's teaching are compared to some of the ancient tao masters I cannot say. I can only speak from the direct experience gained with each having worked and practiced with Mantak in the 1980(s) through the Kan and Li(s) and Michael in the 90(s) beginning again with his version of the Fusion practices and continuing through the practice of Congress of Heaven and Earth. The main point of the post was to share with Kelly that there exists a possibility that an actual real spiritual fetus can form and be nourished within the lower abdomen and that this was different than just awakening energies in the pelvic and lower abdominal regions.
Perhaps for others on the forum who are interested in learning more about the actual practice of taoist alchemy, you could share recommendations on the path and teachers you follow. That would be helpful to any who may like to pursue it more deeply.
Please know, I am appreciative of your postings and sharings. Thanks again.
Love and Light,
Steve
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Dear Steve,
it`s nice meeting someone having trodded similar ways like me. Michael I did not meet and his combination of Frantzis God playing the clouds wit Kan & Li did not convince me.
So I am no source for this path but like to rework the many experiences I made on "higher" levels I presently work with. As I know the presently leading persons a recommendation can also not made in this one person show
only selling his pieces rarely someone is following afterwards a longer time what I did. Touching astonished the stiff and stressed neck and shoulders of Mantak Cha never worked through by Qigong as he frankly admits
ended the relation for better courses in this respect. They brought even better results in energies.
But it was a nice and helpful time also from his side with wild adventures and counterpart to a tibetan buddhism unwarrantly promising short tantric pathes but mostly giving not the necessary details reserved for the few.
But it is worthwile to learn and know this limitations.
Axel
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:00:25 PM
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quote:
yes, I am on a path of truth seeking and have in some ways accepted what may unfold before and within me. I can't say that the acceptance arrives in the absence of fear. I am afraid, still. These are uncharted waters and I am a captain without a map. Intuition is leading my human spiritual blindness and it hungers for more of this truth-quest. I have to trust that my "self" would not lead me to danger. I follow Yogani's words as if they were droplets of water in a desert. I thank you all for your support. Virtual strangers and yet...not. K~
May your innermost heart be your captain, yogani's lessons your map and the forum your satsang and support. Yogani's AYP lessons are helping many like yourself all around the planet. |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 12:07:30 PM
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Nice meeting you too Axel .
Steve |
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KellyN
75 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2012 : 3:04:34 PM
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Thank you for your imput Sey! Yes, the Ego is useful and in many ways practical. I am not looking to throw away my Ego, I just don't like the psychoanalytic roots form which the word comes. Freud coined the term, I belive, and I am not a fan of his personality theories. That is what I meant, guess I should have elaborated .
Steve, and everyone who has added to my knowledge base and provided kismit support.... I thank you! I am sure I will be posting again with more questions,  |
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Movement in lower abdomen
