|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
 Posted - May 16 2006 : 12:34:59 PM
|
Frank,
I didn't get time to read the post till now, but thanks for bringing it to us. It sounds like John has had a very deep experience of the nondual.
Ether said:
i would speculate that a person in that state would have all siddhis available to them, but would lose all desire to use them.
did he say anything about that?
I'm curious too, but more from the point of view of skepticism.
John (so far anyway) seems to be free of tendencies to self-mythologize, which means he'll share with you totally honestly and give you straight answers, which is wonderful. I hope his innocence doesn't get spoiled, like it does for many! If he starts to get the impression that he is a very special person because this has happened to him, that could spoil it all, so be careful!! 
Keep us posted. 
-D |
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 16 2006 1:02:06 PM |
 |
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 1:25:08 PM
|
As I read John's words last night, I felt a thick, dense energy in my body which settled in for a while - maybe 10 minutes or so - and then went away. I've felt this before, during meditation, but never while I was engaged in an activity. I went back and read it this morning, and it happened again, altho less pronounced.
I'm embarrassed to write the above and dread the repercussions, but Shanti talked me into it.  Please, don't anyone tell me to get over my bad self and start repeating iamiamiamiam. . . . . I recognize that it was just an experience; that I'll get no brownie points. What I do find interesting is that John's experience, twice removed and watered down, has such a profound impact on so many of us. There's a hush around it, like this is something holy, or real, that we all understand to be It. That.
Thanks, Frank. And Shanti. |
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 1:53:35 PM
|
Hey Meg.. I could feel - in your words - what you are talking about... don't worry.. you are not crazy.. and if some tells you otherwise.. please direct them to me 
by the way, it is good to "iamiamiamiam"...
Frank I had one more question for you..
I found it very strange that John said..
"John's note to me, 'It is so wonderful to find someone who can appreciate it. Most people around me would only think that I was going crazy.'"
Could some one at that level actually need someone to understand him.. and still be worried about being called crazy..
Maybe what David said is right.. he is like a child.. "I hope his innocence doesn't get spoiled, like it does for many!" |
Edited by - Shanti on May 16 2006 2:04:12 PM |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 2:37:23 PM
|
Shanti said:
>> Could some one at that level actually need someone to understand him.. and still be worried about being called crazy..
Maybe what David said is right.. he is like a child.. "I hope his innocence doesn't get spoiled, like it does for many!"
We're almost always operating on several levels at once, and a person in or at a transition only moreso. There is certainly some of his ordinary mind left, or he wouldn't have taken up the computer-related job, which was probably a great idea. From the level of THAT he certainly does not mind being considered crazy in the way we normally might -- the experience would be analagous to seeing thousands of puppets (people) being moved by a single puppeteer, the puppets saying 'You are crazy to think we are being moved by one puppeteer!'.
Time will tell how this experience integrates with him.
What I am worried about is that in one way or another, he will be told that he is very special as a person to be having this experience. What a trap! An invitation back into the prison of Maya, that very few can resist.....
It's part of the Indian way to mythologize almost any realizer beyond all reality and reason (in my opinion), and this helps to spring the trap. Think about whether what I said is true, and if so, please, please don't spring the trap on him!
You also might want to warn him of the trap, if he is not wary enough yet.....
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 16 2006 2:47:37 PM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 3:15:59 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
... when I hear him talk.. I can feel what he is feeling..
Hello Shweta,David.Meg, Shanti.
Yes, this seems to be a general experience. John's description has profundly impacted me also...the innocence, yet the genuine-ness resinates with me. I get what he says w/o stuggle or compromise.
David's assessment of remains of other states - there is a name for this called lesh-avida, or the remains of ignorance. My teacher used the analogy of a butter ball in ones hands. When its placed down, your hands still has this film, the remains. Like that, there is the remains of ignorance, otherwise one would be completely absorbed into the Absolute ( as I understand it).
re: Siddhi's - I think that for John, it is of no interest. Kinda like us all grown up, we leave our G.I Joes and Barbi dolls for others. I have not brought this up as my questions have been more about what the Upanishads say of this level of existence and asking John if he concurs. A delightful way to learn - read, question, listen, learn.
PART VI
I asked John,
The rishi's say our bodies ( and this earth, rock, liquid, gas, space, leaf, animal, vegetable or mineral) is condensed consciousness (same as they say in quantum physics). And most of everything is really space ( my favorite element, akasha) from the atomic to the universal.
"I like the "condensed consciousness" concept. But then again, in THERE even appropriate, logical words and concepts are seeing as merely utterations without content. THAT is so powerful that renders all thinking as illusory. I can say that we live inmerse in a cloud of thinking that DOESNT ALLOW US TO SEE."
I continued,
They ( scientists) even wonder how all this ( matter) stays together , cause there is so much space between atoms. This is where they talk of the various forces in physics that I am not knowledgably of, that bind this matter together. That said, we are miniature HIMs. "Him" is like that sound Hreem - all encompassing.
"That sounds beautiful. I wont say its worthless (nor other concepts or ideas) but that its empty if you are THERE."
I continue,
Its like another word Hamsa. A name for a Swan - they give HIM this
name , as one of beauty; As the swan also floats on the water ( life, existence) without getting wet ( or pulled into this existence) or without the possibility of any blemish. Just as your state , experiencing The 'Witness' from within and all 'live' was happening outside of you.
"Mm, I would say that "life" was an idea, "outide" was an idea. What is left is THAT. The very same THAT that you are experiencing right now, but without all those words and concepts around."
I pose a different apporach, same concept:
When one gets established in the experience you had, then one is
untouched by actions, like the swan floating on top of the water. He is on top of the relative field of life, yet he gets 'unwet' from the waters/turbulence below. Was this the experience?
"Yes. In my words is not because you are unwet, but because there is no YOU. How could you be untouched if you never existed in the first place? :) If anything, THAT ceases to identificate itself with experiences, in that sense is not touched by them."
Some closing considerations I posed:
Your actions in this state, when fully matured are HIS actions ( over time you are not bound action-reaction - Your experience, once stable, 'changes the rules' or really goes to another level of rule making - Karmic actions do not bind you, no vasanas ( or impressions that go from life to life) become like a roasted seed, it cannot sprout new actions ( as the rishi's say); You become a free-agent of the universe. This is the delightful part of why I pursue this path..non binding actions, no return to this plane of existence, and the ability to do the work of the cosmos; very attractive to me - I must of touched this desire before somehow.
"Those are happy feelings/ideas. :)"
pranams, more later.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 16 2006 5:50:55 PM |
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 3:31:33 PM
|
quote:
"Mm, I would say that "life" was an idea, "outide" was an idea. What is left is THAT. The very same THAT that you are experiencing right now, but without all those words and concepts around."
Wow..
quote:
"Yes. In my words is not because you are unwet, but because there is no YOU. How could you be untouched if you never existed in the first place? :) If anything, THAT ceases to identificate itself with experiences, in that sense is not touched by them."
Wow Wow...
Frank, your questions were awesome too..
quote:
Its like another word Hamsa. A name for a Swan - they give HIM this
name , as one of beauty; As the swan also floats on the water ( life, existence) without getting wet ( or pulled into this existence) or without the possibility of any blemish. Just as your state , experiencing The 'Witness' from within and all 'live' was happening outside of you.
When one gets established in the experience you had, then one is
untouched by actions, like the swan floating on top of the water. He is on top of the relative field of life, yet he gets 'unwet' from the waters/turbulence below. Was this the experience?
|
|
|
|
alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 4:06:00 PM
|
Hello Frank. John's revelation of THAT through you is beautiful. I thank you both. Very inspiring!
I think the events of sharing of this nature reflect a readiness in our lives to merge with THAT. As you suggested, our runways are being prepared. Be it life-times of awakening, His/Her Divine Grace, or maybe simply THAT, NOW seems to me to be the moment THAT is happening to release us in the freedom of THAT. May IT be so. Peace, alan
P.S. methinks siddhis are no thing to be had |
Edited by - alan on May 16 2006 4:16:35 PM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2006 : 9:31:05 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
Hello/Namaskar Visphulinga ( this means "spark"; of what? the Divine)
I left this snippet out from my last post.
PART VII
... do you meditate?
"Nope. I used to. Constantly, I tried to meditate during every waken moment. I tried to meditate even in dreams (Im a lucid dreamer). I tried to meditate meditating. I would say that the main reason I become aware is because I have learned to focus my consciousness so intensely in the Here and Now."
I then closed this conversation out with a quote.
I leave you with one of his ( as we were discussing Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj] I am sure you have read ( and is dear to me):
To know the world you forget the SELF, to know the SELF you forget the world.
[John is quite aware of the author here - this is from I AM THAT]
"Thank you for the quote. I value Nisargadatta more than any other teacher. He doesn't give space to concepts or ideas, he points directly to THAT all the time."
"Thank you also for allowing to express/remember what is like to be/see THAT."
'finite things do not contain happiness' - rishi Sanatkumara
pranams,
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 16 2006 9:49:14 PM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 11:48:44 AM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
How'd you meet him, Frank?
Hello Jim
Wanted to answer your question.
I discuss Vednanta with several other folks, groups, and forums.
with one group the following occured:
... I was fortunate to have conversations with John w/o ever talking of THAT , till a conversation came up on states of consciousness of waking , dreaming and sleeping. The conversation transitioned to what people knew of what happens in deep sleep. now, many 'knew' what others have said - by books, scriptures, and their pundits and guru's, yet none 'knew' from direct experience till John spoke up and then every thing changed. So begins my conversation with someone that experienced 'That'.
Hope this helps... more as the conversation matures.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
|
|
|
Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 12:52:01 PM
|
| Could you ask him if he felt sexuality in the THAT state ? |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 1:10:29 PM
|
So he meditated a lot BEFORE his awakening experience?
The same is true of UG Krishnamurti (not J. Krishnamurti). At a certain point then, UG went through a major transition 'spontaneously', and concluded, quite dubiously I think, that all the years of meditation played no part in causing that transition.
|
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 1:55:57 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
So he meditated a lot BEFORE his awakening experience?
...that all the years of meditation played no part in causing that transition.
Hello David/Wolfgang,
Interesting point David. I am in a conversation with John about spontaneous vs. gradual realization e.g. sadyo-mukti or an immediate experience of liberation ( of THAT). Other practices lead to krama-mukti or gradual or progressive liberation… I am seeing who/if and what other meditatative considerations influenced his experience and what % of his meditations contributed to this experience. I am awaiting a response.
Wolfgang, re: your question on sexual tendency in THAT - I can with a high degree of confidence suggest John's answer...
"They were NO OTHERS, there were no objects and most importantly no subject at all. You no longer exist, and what is left is not the world either. Its impossible for somebody else to be aware, because YOU ARE AWARENESS"
I believe sexual urges are of the body, and of the 3 gunas ( rago-guna which stimulates passion). Since he was not influnced by this, as there are no gunas to create passion/urge in THAT, he would most likely just say no, none.
Now, if he said 'yes' there is that sexual urge, he then would say how would I act on it? If every thing is THAT, and I am THAT, then who possibly can I engage in a physical relationship with? There are no others, he continues to remind me.
Hope this helps.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 17 2006 7:51:33 PM |
|
|
|
alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 2:31:01 PM
|
| I'm enjoying this. Thank you Frank. |
|
|
|
Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2006 : 9:53:40 PM
|
Hi Frank,
if I feel sexual extasy, are there OTHERS ?
If I am alone (without a partner) and I feel
sexual extasy, am I really alone ?
|
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2006 : 08:03:41 AM
|
Wolfgang,
Sexual ecstasy is a byproduct of your practices.. it is Kundalini rising. Go through the lessons from the beginning again.. Yogani explains them really well..
http://www.aypsite.org/258.html
quote:
http://www.aypsite.org/113.html
Ecstasy is the result of prana ravishing us in delicious ways. You will recall that prana, the life force, is one of the first manifestations coming out of pure bliss consciousness. When prana moves in evolutionary ways in the nervous system it produces vibrations that we experience as overwhelming pleasure. Ecstasy is the goddess moving in us. Ecstasy emanates from an awakened kundalini, which we know comes from our sexual energy, our great storehouse of prana.
You can go through this thread
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1104
Also go to the Topic Index
http://www.aypsite.org/TopicIndex.html
There are many lessons that can help you understand what your are experiencing, and how to manage these feelings. Look under Ecstasy,
Ecstatic Bliss, Ecstatic Conductivity.
You may have to self pace...
Enjoy
|
Edited by - Shanti on May 18 2006 08:04:59 AM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2006 : 9:19:34 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
When talking with John, it becomes clear that his agama or verbal testimony influences me and several folks on AYP. John would be known as apta, people/persons whose words are accepted as reliable, and within my mind produces this agma - verbal clarity/tesitmony that resinates with me - perhaps with you…
Let me add another snippet *( as I promised no novels!) No words have been adjusted for spelling. ( got lazy)
PART VIII
Thank you John for taking the time and addressing the questions... I can see where some things I say are 'one legged' as the rishi's say, that is, I do not speak from experience, but read the same exact things you wrote e.g. you are awareness...
John's reply:
"yet.... EVERY MOMENT YOU HAVE BEEN AWARE! tell me if this is not strange ;) I mean, I know what you mean, and I also know how deeply absurd it sounds to "try" to be aware... confusing, isnt it? yet, pristingly clear once you realice it."
Yep ... makes sense, yet as I pursue my spiritual path, this has not been an experience that lasts for any length of time so I am not grounded in this. My interest is to prepare for this, but as you say talk'n about it does in no way equal the real experience.
John:
"the only way I can put it is to say that is like if a blind individual (who "knows" everything about light: waves and particles, number of colors, wavelengths etc) suddenly SEE."
Also , I have practiced being attentive to the hear and now, and attentive of being attentive!!! I seem to not keep this level of awareness for long periods, yet I consider myself a focused individual ... Any additional ideas for me? A wack in the side of the head? :>)
"maybe you are trying too hard!???????? it is not about trying to, but letting it happen. its always there, you are always THERE, you have never been anything but THAT"
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 22 2006 11:44:11 PM |
|
|
|
alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2006 : 11:47:01 AM
|
Hi Frank and all.
A curious observation on my own condition. Maybe a week ago I was standing on the porch and understood that I was That. I thought, "Oh, I've known all along" and it was so "commonplace" a thing that the surprise quickly faded and I almost forgot the whole thing. I had enough presence to realize that this was always my condition and these "little moments" always happen except I usually don't "remember" them. It is all a vague artifact of memory now but because I have such a memory I "remember" this to always be my condition. Though I'm currently blinded I know That is always so. There really was no big deal in That because it is my true nature. It was very simple and true. My dysfunctional state is where I build big deals. Curiously, I currently see myself to be in that dysfunctional state as my normal experience. The closest events in which I've had similar experiences of being in That were under the influence of mescaline or LSD. I don't ingest those anymore for various reasons, one of them being that there seems to be no tangible bridge-building to such a state. An interesting question to me is at what level/degree does anyone and everyone experience being in That? It all seems to be an ultimate mystery I would like to unravel.
Thanks Frank
alan |
Edited by - alan on May 23 2006 6:37:40 PM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 23 2006 : 9:07:31 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
Hello folks, here is another snippet.John uses two words:
vipassana or see things as they really are, and satoris from satori a state of intuitive illumination . Thought to define them here and notdistract from the writing below.
PART IX
Namaste John,
Various spiritual endeavors (called upasana) leads to sadyo-mukti or an immediate experience of liberation ( of THAT). Other upasana's lead to krama-mukti or gradual liberation… So, you as a sadhaka (one that practices) or practiced upasana, experienced THAT…. can you think back of your practices? Other then meditations, was there anything you think was a key driver or upasana that triggered your experience?
John's reply:
"As long as I can remember, I always wanted to know everything, what was the world, what was I, why is there anything at all, etc. Everything else seemed of little importance, I really wanted to know. That was the whole purpose of my life. I read a lot I believed in almost everything at some point. then I discovered vipassana, and meditated as often as possible, and I'm not talking necessarily about sitting meditation. I meditated always, in the car, in the bus stop, while reading, while talking while watching television, I tried to focus as hard as I could in ALL WHAT HAPPENS AT THIS EXACT MOMENT."
"None of that was enough, but I'm sure it helped. from time to time I experienced small satoris, that lasted a few hours, but they were more emotional that experiential in the sense of the quality of being awake."
"Years later I found I AM THAT, by Nisargadatta, and it become my "bible" regarding all this things. it was exactly what I needed I guess. Still, the words were still words, the understanding was still intellectual, I believed I UNDERSTOOD but I was only believing another set of beliefs.
Then one day, it happened I woke up, I AM THAT was written JUST FOR ME, because I WAS THE ONLY ONE, there were no others.... this came as a flash, without warnings, and it changed my life forever."
I continue and add another concept:
Also, in THAT state, they say there is no time... was that your experience? And if no time , where you able to view 'time'forwards and backwards ? I know there is only NOW, so if there is only NOW, then the past-present-future has no walls between them... did you have any experience that would lead you to believe that NOW is without walls? and you had the opportunity ( whether you took advantage of it our not) to look at time in this fashion?
"NOOO there is no time, meaning, THERE IS NO TIME! time is an illusion! Past and future are constructs of your mind! completely useless while you are THAT! I know there is only NOW, so if there is only NOW, NOOO past and future are fictions! NOW NOW NOW NOW all the other things are ideas without content!"
pranams,
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 23 2006 9:42:24 PM |
|
|
|
Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2006 : 08:08:10 AM
|
Hi all
Just found this post....thank you so much for sharing John's/yours experience with us, Frank. It is very beautiful and very profound.
Nothing to add....John's words/silence speak for itself.
David wrote:
quote:
I hope his innocence doesn't get spoiled, like it does for many! If he starts to get the impression that he is a very special person because this has happened to him, that could spoil it all, so be careful!!
Yes.....you know; for years this scared the **** out of me (pardon my french)....I was SO scared of becoming "vain" in this manner. In fact, so scared, that the fright itself veiled the vainness that indeed was there. I rejected it for years.
The way I see it today, it is not the specialness that is the "problem". Being is precious! It is incredibly special....but as long as I take myself to be "a person"; a separate individual; I limit the specialness to my form. This is the illusion. It is not that I am not special, but rather that I am just as special as everyone else. I am no more special than you are. You are no more special than I am. We are all special.
I know this doesn't contradict what you said, David. The illusion that "I am a special person" does indeed "spoil" our perception of THAT.
But allowing the thought "I am a special person" allows me to see it when it is there. When I see it, I can disidentify from it; while as fearing it keeps it out of my sight.
My experience of Being is of course limited compared to John's. But I think the "being special" issue is applicable to all spiritual experience.
May all your Nows be Here |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2006 : 09:59:12 AM
|
Yes.
You are almost leading me into share an insight I had last night, and this might be a good time to share it....
Vanity/narcissism is part of the human condition. So, you are talking about the problems with denying or fearing that, which is no good. If we deny it or fear it, we won't purify it -- instead, at best, we'll invert it; it will become inverted pride/narcissism, rather than real humility. This is vanity not properly processed but inverted and coming out in hypocritical shows of fake humility -- there's more to the syndrome than that, but that's the gist of it. A person with an inverted narcissism still has some enormous issue that they are more special than everyone else, but it is coming out in twisted, deniable ways which include fake humility.
That's narcissism at the individual level.
Then there is vanity/narcissism at the group or 'identity' level, producing nationalism, ethnicism, racism, gender chauvinism ('male chauvinism' and 'militant feminism'), religious chauvinism and bigotry, all of which are forms of what I call 'identity narcissism'. In the same way, these things in us have to be accepted and processed rather than feared. If identity-narcissism is not properly processed, the best we can hope to get is inverted identity-narcissism.
Is there such thing as inverted identity-narcissism?
Sure there is inverted identity-narcissism. It's called 'political correctness'.
That is the insight I had last night. Any thoughts?
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on May 24 2006 10:01:44 AM |
|
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2006 : 11:43:27 AM
|
Hi David,
I agree with your ideas:
We can inadvertently manifest our unaddressed fears. We gain freedom from facing and accepting our fears.
|
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 24 2006 : 12:40:09 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
We can inadvertently manifest our unaddressed fears. We gain freedom from facing and accepting our fears.
According to the wise, they say fear arises when there is the sense of more then one, there are others. That is, other then me. This goes away in THAT.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 25 2006 : 11:00:09 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
Hello Folks,
John and I are still communicating... I think there is one more post (number 10) that will round out his experiences, then I will retire this string for a bit.
The other conversations are more Upanishadic in nature that compare/contrast what the sages ( muni's) say of this experience to what John found in his satori over time. John remains simple and helpful, yet these days he is busy as he informs me and I do not get as much mail as before; with this, I respect his time and space.
Perhaps with these conversations he will choose to pursue THAT again.
I do not encourge him as ones development at his level is (I believe) being 'managed' at a higher level. We have been fortunate to meet such a being and I am a better person for it.
Jijvishet satam samah - "may you live 100 years"
Isavasya Upanishad
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 25 2006 11:08:24 PM |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 9:15:56 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~~~~~
Hello folks,
this is the last post on this subject as we give it a rest.
John and I have been under the weather as they say in the USA, so that is where the conversation starts... John and I have been talking for a bit and I ( in this last post) explain my understanding to John about his experience... Remember my knowledge is 'one legged' as the sages say, buy holds water from the standpoint that I do not make this stuff up! that said, this last installment posting my communcation to John;
PART X
John responds to me:
"Hello again,
thanks for the get well, please get well you too. I have to tell you, now that I have been with this problem (illness) I have had sometime to enter THAT from a different point of view.
I have a small daughter, thats all that matters to me, being able to spend time with her, as I see life as the most possible precious gift that anyone could offer. Still, if I face the possibility of ceasing to exist (theoretically I hope)I can easily get in touch with THAT in an almost pleasurable way. Why almost? because the fear of death is there. This is my last frontier I guess, and I have to tell you, I really love to be "just" a human, with all its conscious limits, and even with all its destructive power.
Be well my friend, dont try to get THERE so hard, it is important but it is A LOT MORE IMPORTANT to live like a human being, hold your moments in here as the best treasure of existence."
My communcation to John:
Thank you for the note... I see much is going on in your life... I think this is 'normal' of most beings. We live in the world of action/diversity that is cuddled in silence...
Re: you and THAT... I have had time to ponder your experience. You are blessed to get a glimpse of THAT.... Yet there is a few things I think you may want to read/entertain so at some point when you wish to enter THAT ,there is balance and stability.
Again , my knowledge is flawed as I have not had the profound experience you had, but I do have the luxury of being taught by one who lives this experience all the time, an enlightened being. He is not my personal guru yet I have spent months/years listening to him and gives practical knowledge. This is complimented by years of study of this...But again 'painted cakes do not satisfy hunger' - that is, words/information is not enough for this great state of Being... But that said, let me see if I can ( from my humble perspective) make an observation. Let me do it sequentially so I can collect my thoughts and then you can poke at any one item that may/may not resonate with you in Truth.
First, you are blessed to have this experience... One only 'earns' what one deserves.... You 'earned' this experience.
What is this experience ? Its called naishkarmyam - or a non-action, SELF realized state. As you mentioned all was awarenessin there, all was THAT... 'THAT' is the SELF.
When this experience does not go away, then its called Cosmic Consciousness. All pervading, all this is THAT, like your experience, for the time you had, but still with lesh-avidya ( some ignorance remained, in your case it was that fear) A key tenet of being completely absorbed in THAT, is one is completely fear-less. Why? Because one gains more courage? Nope... Its because there is no one other then YOU, so who is there to fear? Yet, Even in the Upanishads, it discusses the 'fear' the SELF had in the very beginning of this creation, yet came to the same realization - what is there to fear if everything is ME? And the fear went away.
Yet, the experience of SELF, albeit is profound, its not the end-state, its not the final level of evolution for the individual But the basis for cosmic life, perfect bhakti and the ability to do the work of the Supreme, if one chooses; perfect knowledge, as all is based on this level of Being.
This state, is also called Turiya, or the 4th state ( wake, dream, sleep are the other 3) - this 4th is the underlying of all other states that are in the relative field of life. You lived the 4th state.
Yet, again, there is another state of consciousness that is based upon this 4th state and its called God Consciousness. This is where one sees, smells, tastes, hears the world as His creation and marvels in this Creation.
Why then do I bother bringing this up? Because 'That' , that you experienced allows one to see the difference between non-action (naiskarmyam) and active field of life. Infinite Silence ( THAT, SELF), and activity, both separate. You find THAT as distinct from the field of activity. This is the progression, first to have that distinction of the two...SELF is not activity, and to separate IT from that which binds; this is the non-attachment the sages have talked about for eons. Many read this instruction incorrectly and thought of making a 'mood' of being non-attached, or renouncing. What is one renouncing?
---> that I am not what I see ( the relative field of life) , that I am the SELF...So I 'renounce' the notion that I am an American, a Californian, a Democrat, a Liberal a _______________ ( fill in the blank e.g. husband, child, programmer, sanyas, sisya, lover, hater,etc)
The next level of unfoldment is to bring BOTH the silence of SELF, and activity together - it is uniting SELF with all levels of activity...this is God Consciousness. Seeing/being an extension of this Creation, of Brahma, of all of this.
---> the point that is the fundamental building block of additional unfoldment/evolution is the separation of SELF from all activity, from the 3 gunas .. It is they ( tri-guna) that carries on this Universe. We are associated with THAT, pure awareness, we are not the actions. This was your experience, the seperation.
And there is another level called Brahman Consciousness.... I will write of this, if you have interest. Point to be made, this whole creation , this virat, all this, is nothing other then the SELF - you know this better then anyone....yet, because of HIS 'grace', HE brings us into this full unfoldment a level at a time. Why so?
So we can stabilize the experience not only into our awareness , but into the 'village of the senses' - our nervous system. As you said, you seen things differently, this needs to be stabilized and made into everyday life. This is HIS 'grace' to us... The 'runway' to fully integrating the Absolute Being of life and the relative field of life. 200% of living.
In your experience, you where 'thrown' into THAT, into the seperation. Only you know why - and the management of this is at a higher levels of intelligence in this creation.
I end with 10 ( a mandala as its called)... Pls let me know if any of this is of use. Again all words, but all words my friend are anchored in Pranava (Om) and come to us via the 5 pranas ...and that of speech, come from vak, owned by agni; the first Hymm in the Rk Ved is dedicated to him...
Its says,
agnimile purohitam yajnasya devamrtvijam hortaram ratnadhatamam Agni, I adore, who stands beore the Lord, the god who sees the Truth, the warrior, strong disposer of delight.
[Rishi is Madhuchchhandas]
Agni is Divine Will - it is by HIS inspiration in all of us that we begin the path to FULLNESS; His Divine Will , for us to seek SELF. No one will be left behind.
Pranams,
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
|
Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on May 29 2006 12:13:44 AM |
|
|
|
hbar12
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2007 : 02:16:35 AM
|
| We are all part of the same consciousnees, but our existance is dependant upon our individuality. If we lose our idividuality we are not anymore. If we are not then the joy of being an individual and relating is lost. The whole point of individuals is for companionship, to not be alone. The collective consciousness will not allow anyone to take over the collective consciousness and thereby destroy the joy of community and differences. Racists are trying something similar in wanting one race and individuals are saying that they want to exist as individuals. Lose of identity in society is considered bad for good reason. It is a sort of lose of existance. The duality keeps the variety. If we all have the same consciousness as each other, it's like being in a dream where you can't watch the movie but have to make it up, act in it and watch it all at once with no surprise ending until you invent different characters to act, and write and come up with interesting camera angles. In other words you would have to make up duality. So we have made duality and we will not unmake it so it will exist by our will. I hope; that's clear. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Being There
