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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 03 2012 : 01:01:30 AM
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| Carson has raised a good point about ongoing self-inquiry and purification, and making full use of the experiences as "self"/body/mind (however illusory it may be) in this world as part of our yoga practice. For about the first 8 months it was pure bliss and no sense of ego at all. More recently I've been experiencing tons of garbage coming up, all kinds of purification, and life is conveniently providing the perfect opportunities for it! The difference is that now it all flows, as opposed to feeling like a burden or a problem. The burning up of all that stuff is ecstatic even though at times painful, but there is no resistance. And while it's fun to talk about the ultimate non-reality of the self, nonetheless, the Divine has chosen to experience life as "me" and "you" so we want to cooperate with that and live/play the role as beautifully as possible. For me it's all about surrender and integration now. I don't have to worry about whether "I" am "real" or not; just being moment to moment, day by day, doing my practice, trusting in the process as it continues to unfold. It is a delicious sense of freedom and grace even in the midst of some very "challenging" worldly situations... |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2012 : 2:11:16 PM
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| Beautiful, Radharani! Love your post! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2012 : 4:38:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Beautiful, Radharani! Love your post!
emc, thanks! I enjoy your posts very much as well. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 1:01:30 PM
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the last few days have been crazy...so much happening in my surroundings at work and in life outside work....fast and crazy....after this initial spark of understanding that i dont exist as a separate entity,life has turned into crazy speedy process....most of the time there is surrender to the the flow....watching and welcoming all the fears and uncertainties that are appearing...but sometimes i feel overwhelmed...god damn it is so fast,whirling...but then i get back to the undertsanding that i am feeling overwhelmed cause the little i has stepped back into the picture and wants to control and plan things.
although i know that i have the illusion of being in control but in fact nothing is under my control...so i am curbing this i and me more and more, until extinction.....learning to accept,to trust and believe...
where am i going?...what will i gain or loose? dont have any idea...all is out of control...just accepting the unfoldment and being ready to give up everything body,mind,thoughts,job,money,family,partner....
sometimes when i am active in stillness i feel that people around me are popping in and out,coming and going etc...not as individual persons but as actors that consciouness put them now on stage, then the next moment they are off the stage...they appear and disappear like puppets in a show..it is so weird and funny |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 1:49:09 PM
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Now you know why I quit the job I was doing 
It's getting to the point of settlement about now, equilibrium, every thought, even thoughts about thoughts, are instantly isolated and form new bubbles floating in conscious awareness. even when passionately involved its completely unattached.like an actor in a play.
Seems like your having the same wild time, mass upheaval and acceptance all at the same time. You seem to be able to accept that whirlwind like a wild party and dance through the night with it. Have to say I had the enduring feeling of slightly spaced out madness......Karl, what are you doing man?  thankfully it resolved but it can be unsettling, so it's good you can handle it so well.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 2:41:13 PM
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dear Karl how long did it take?
was it really the reason you quit your job?
personally i feel that my job is still needed to balance the inner silence...i still need to get out and get engaged otherwise i will overload spiritually
at the same time i feel i dont want to work anymore.......
the house is on fire over here
any inputs would be welcomed
thx |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 3:13:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
dear Karl how long did it take?
was it really the reason you quit your job?
personally i feel that my job is still needed to balance the inner silence...i still need to get out and get engaged otherwise i will overload spiritually
at the same time i feel i dont want to work anymore.......
the house is on fire over here
any inputs would be welcomed
thx
It's still taking time M and yes it was the reason I left. I could no longer see the point, it was like the bulb in the projector was failing, the people were like ghosts and I was really unable to connect in the same way. I just seemed to be actively participating in a script. It couldn't go on and it would have happened in some way if not self provoked.
It's taken almost 7 months of really difficult self reflection, far deeper than anything I have ever been through. I really dont think you can transition without this upheaval, you just have to self pace and avoid the stuff that puts additional stress on the situation.
I can't even tell you it's right, I truly do not have the faintest idea, it's like there was a massive explosion and all the bits are just floating. Interest in making money, making ends meet, surviving has become a piece of that. There is an infinite calm about it, but I think it's going to spawn another upheaval.
Once you poke the fire it just burns, seems that there are moments of passivity followed by more flames. Most of these I have adapted to simply ride through, they are seen as self generated thoughts anyway, but there seems to be a force, some kind of Inertia which can be seen.
I can't advise, except to say I am now in a period of blissful calm, aware of the movement going on and having no intention of trying to speed it or slow it down. It's moving at a natural pace. I suppose we just have to get on with strengthing our desire not to try and control things and really fall into grace or, disintegrate in the process.
There was a time I could have told you that I understood, that I was certain about the process and well versed in the philosophy. That's just not the case now, I really have no idea. I know how I got here but not where I'm going. It's not scary, it's like passive viewing of every part, thought and feeling.
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 3:34:34 PM
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It will pass Maheswhari. Its the normal process of falling. With tiime it will get smoother. Trust.
quote:
where am i going?...what will i gain or loose?
Like u perfectly know, those are just toughts.
quote:
at the same time i feel i dont want to work anymore.......
Wellcome to the misfits club haha (sick society and now were recovering..) |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 05 2012 3:42:02 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 3:41:42 PM
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thank u dear Karl for sharing your story...
quote:
Interest in making money, making ends meet, surviving has become a piece of that. There is an infinite calm about it,
totally relate to that
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dear Miguel...it weird the fall is sometimes scary but something inside me tells me that everything will be all alright
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i am so grateful to be in this lovely ayp family...otherwise one goes nuts |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 3:43:27 PM
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oh, weare already nuts haha! youll see that along the way also haha..(if u didnt see it before..)
It feels like falling in to an abyss firstly. With time it will change and will be much more easy. The abyss is only in the mind.Theres no abyss.Just a bad dream in this falling process.But not real. Trust.
Grab the here and now. It helps.All that stuff happens in the now. Always. |
Edited by - miguel on Apr 05 2012 3:49:56 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 4:02:17 PM
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| hahaha indeed we are already totally nuts....now i am seeing it even more |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 4:05:26 PM
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 4:14:45 PM
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In my experience it is crucial to stay fully engaged in Life, especially during times like what you are describing Maheswari. It's definitely a challenge, but as they say, nothing good comes easy.
For me, I had to drop teaching yoga, had to drop my regular practices, and had to get deep into the nitty gritty (the regular job, the family, the yardwork, etc etc etc) in order to remain in balance. And to me, balance is what it is all about. All inner, no outer as Yogani says is not "It." "It" is a balance between inner and outer which results in no inner/outer at all, just "This." It is like walking a knife's edge and it takes practice and awareness to stay Here.
"All you run away from follows you in order to set you free." Vigdis Garbarek
Love!
Carson  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 4:41:58 PM
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Yes, that's true, I didn't run from the job, I ran into the fire and not away from it. To a place the Ego did not want to go, where the fear lay like a dark blanket.
I let whatever come to me and it settles like small, nervous birds, if I move too suddenly they fly away and wait until stillness returns. I was asked to join a group of mature student musicians as a drummer, I have been to two rehearshals and ended up doing so many new songs it was more like a full time job. In the last rehearshal I was asked if I minded another drummer sharing the load and I jumped at the opportunity. Turns out he hasn't had much experience and the implication was that I might give him some tips !
I just wondered if I should maybe look at tutoring more mature drummers and found a tutor training course with a network of advertising covering the new trainees so I have enrolled. It was all simple and painless, like it's all just jogging along. No expectations, nothing needed, just follow the arrows.
Stuff seems to just evolve like clouds forming in the sky. Occasionally a fear thought, well they all are in some way, even the ones that see riches and fame, forms it's little bubble and tries to engage and attach but they can't escape the self inquiry rigour.
I have a friend who is also off work so we go for walks and just drift in the moment. Most times not even talking.
I suppose you could say I am lucky to be able to do this, but I think it's purely situational, what happens happens and I'm cool with that. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 6:10:36 PM
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Hi All:
The kind of intense self-inquiry being discussed here and in several other recent topics does not seem to be compatible with maintaining a stable lifestyle with job, family, etc., but more suited to a reclusive way of life, and I would caution visitors to the forums that it does not represent baseline AYP practice.
This is not to say those who are pursuing absolutist non-dual self-inquiry as promoted by Jed McKenna and spin-offs like Liberation Unleashed ought not be doing it. Only that from the AYP point of view it may jumping the gun on a more natural evolution of non-dual experience that will be more compatible with our ordinary life, rather than a radical separation from it.
Whether such an aggressive approach is relational (occurring in abiding inner silence) or not will depend on who is using it. If it isn't, and it is a mental belief system masquerading as a new state of awakening, then the results could be quite disastrous. I am not here to pass judgement on that, because every case is going to be different. But one thing that can be said for sure is that "one size will not fit all," and that is the danger of absolutist non-duality teachings like are being applied and discussed here.
I do not agree with teachers who claim that the end of liberation can be reached by skipping the beginning and the middle and that it is that simple. There is no free lunch. Indeed, anyone who tries to bypass the prerequisites is going to find themselves having to go back to pick up the pieces, and that may not be so easy.
Surely there are multiple ways to get the job done, and I support any approach that can do it without wrecking lives in the process. I do have some concern about AYP practitioners adding on intensive practices that could destabilize their path and their life. When things seem to be flying out the window, it is a good time to think about self-pacing and getting back to the stable routine that is our life and subsistence, and got us to where we are today.
Better to grow a good set of wings before jumping off a cliff. Once the wings are there, go for it!
Wishing you all the best on your path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 6:32:40 PM
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Thanks for this Yogani
Just thought that it may be worth mentioning that the "destabilization" can also be the result of overdoing *any* spiritual practices, not just formal self-inquiry techniques like what is being done at Liberation Unleashed. I know that at least for me, the need to "re-balance" was required due to overdoing regular AYP practices/teaching/retreats etc for a couple of years straight. The Liberation Unleashed process really didn't change much for me.
To me, self-pacing is truly everything and I thank you for always reminding us to pace ourselves. Unfortunately, some of us have to learn the hard way... by overdoing things for so long that Life has to force us (one way or another) to confront ourselves and our tendencies.
Love!
Carson
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2012 : 7:03:56 PM
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My Dear M.,
[Note: I wrote this before seeing the last 2 posts by Yogani and Carson. I concur with Yogani that there is no "short-cut" and self-inquiry needs to be paced like everything else...]
I, too, take great comfort in the sangha in these crazy times! and YOU are one of those who inspire me the most. 
As you know, you and I have experienced many of the same things but on a different timeline. The intellectual awareness of no-self came to me many years ago, at which time I had a very good job in Berkeley, CA and was teaching yoga to a few students on the side. But, I was dissatisfied because "it's all meaningless!" and I wanted to "do something meaningful." - keeping in mind, of course, that it's ALL sort of meaningless, to a degree. (This was back in the 80's and I never thought at that time you could make a living teaching yoga.) I foolishly quit my job and moved to L.A. to open a "music and meditation" center with a famous musician friend who, it turns out, was not serious about it. When he said "Yes, it's definitely going to happen!" what he actually meant was, "I believe it will probably happen some day," and it turned out our friendship also was not nearly as solid as I had thought. So I ended up working a series of even more meaningless (albeit steady and well paying!) secretarial jobs... long story. The experience of no-self was wonderful in meditation, but my inner life was in severe conflict with my life in the alleged "real" (cough!) world, causing me a great deal of pain.
Anyway, where I find myself (or lack of self!) today is quite different. My "real world" situation is totally falling apart. The medical transcription job that I have come to despise, which at one time paid extremely well, is thankfully petering out due to circumstances largely beyond my control. My yoga studio - my true vocation - is in limbo, with only a few students, due to my location in the boondocks and I won't be able to open the new studio on the beach until I sell the house, which I MUST do to get out of debt (was turned down for bankruptcy, had to cash in my ROTH IRA to pay off credit card debt, long story, yada yada). This leaves me with my third job as a phone "psychic" which I only have because I can't use my CA Psychology credentials here in FL and I'm not really qualified to do anything else. I'm growing weary of that because I'm tired of reading cards and being a "fortune teller." Why does everybody want to know the future?! give me a break. be here now! But it's all I have left. And if that doesn't work out, I suppose I'll have to find something else to do. Meanwhile, the alcoholic partner and all his ongoing drama and his insane family, etc., etc.
Now - in light of the above, in the past I would have been VERY worried. Instead, it all just flows. The "inside" part has totally settled down into peace and silence. As for the so-called "real world," I do what I can in the moment and remember that this is all just the story which for some reason the Divine wanted to experience as "me." In moments when it all becomes too overwhelming, like when the menopausal hormone thing strikes right at the same time as the latest financial disaster, I just cling to the Lord with both hands and have a good cry. Then I get up and move on, and it's all ok. At times the ego pops up and says, "Hey, I really OUGHT to be worried!" but, as my mother used to say, "Why worry? it won't do any good anyway."
My point, dear M., is that we must trust in the process. We are in good hands. It will all be ok one way or another as we play our role in this crazy divine drama.
Something that may help when the sense of vertigo strikes and becomes too overwhelming, is to remind your [nonexistent] self: Nothing has really changed. The world goes on as it has. Only your perception has changed. Deep breath. Here we are.
But my best advice, above all, since you are fortunate enough to know and love the Lord, hold onto Him with all your strength. and trust.
All my Love, Radharani
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Edited by - Radharani on Apr 05 2012 9:10:28 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 06:06:57 AM
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wow thx for all the replies
@ Carson: yes me too i believe staying engaged in normal life is essential for my case....in 2005 i wanted to leave my family and my job and become a Swami....cause i wanted to "do something meaningfull"... i even reduced my outings with friends cause i found them very silly....did not want to be with men because I believed in strict brahmacharya…neglected my looks….but as you said what you run from get back to you....mum was diagnosed with vascular dementia in 2008 so everything i was running from i had to put up with....i had to keep my job,my friends,take care of mum who is now in a permanent specialized hospital....then later dad passed away...plus many many other serious problems….in short the non relational enquiry is something familiar to me, i know its tricks. How did i overcome it? well life sent me hard lessons that turned my cold heart (at that time i was reluctant to take care of my mum and still wanted to leave my family) into a compassionate and giving heart....life circumstances changed me totally...i learned the hard way that balancing the inner and the outer is the only way to create a balanced, compassionate, helpful and blossoming spiritual seeker instead of a dry lip vedantin...now I lead a normal life go out with friends like I used to, have a man, take care of my looks….this running into the mud of daily difficult life circumstances led to the appearance of the silent witness and relational self enquiry around early 2011....
@Karl: as Yogani says "one size will not fit all"...true many many spiritiual seekers i know did leave their regular jobs so as Boddhi Tree says:To each his own! Thanks for your replies, gentlemen!
@Yogani :now it is relational...but i should be always vigilant not to fall back into non relational.The way to do it is to keep my daily sitting practices (which are not overloading me yet) and by keeping engaged and keeping in mind that at any time i might resort to self pacing my practices ...currently i am on the knife edge but i should stay vigilant...i dont believe in skipping stages whether in the beginning or the middle...it is an evolution not a jump unless one wants to break his neck....dont know anything about this Jed McKenna...as for LU it triggered something but i was feeling it coming before using LU...so LU is only an apparent reason for what is happening with me now...it is not the real reason...the real reason is the culmination of years of practices and of dealing with life difficulties...
@ Raddha…yes lots of smiliraties but on a different time line dear sister loll…..and different ishtas (Krishna/Siva) we wanted to be sisters and swamis and look at us now lollz….we passed by many many years of celibacy and now we are cultivating the sexual energy lolllz …
in the past the sitting practices were cool but still clashing with the outside life cause there was no balance yet…
Now there is more balance as you said: quote:
have a good cry. Then I get up and move on, and it's all ok. At times the ego pops up and says, "Hey, I really OUGHT to be worried!" but, as my mother used to say, "Why worry? it won't do any good anyway."….
This is what happens with me too
Love
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Edited by - maheswari on Apr 06 2012 06:10:27 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 06:31:05 AM
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One size fits all ?
Did I imply that? It certainly was not intentional. I can only relate to how it is and not what it is and speak as I find.
I don't think you can control the fire, you can only ride it's intensity, it will go where it wants and no amount of 'keep out' signage will prevent the inevitable spread. Nothing remains untouched, even areas that seem to be benign or good are subject to the same destruction.
It doesn't matter if you cop out or cop in, however you deal with what's going on in order to keep balance is what you will do. Hermit or evangelist, It might not look very pretty, but if it keeps you on the rope then it has to be right.
If you start a voyage then there will always be some difficulty encountered along the way and there has to be acceptance of the possibility that the ship might sink and you might drown and that's just the way it is. The only unsinkable ship is one which remains safely on dry land and goes nowhere at all. There will always be risk, but there does not have to be fear.
Carson says ' engaged in life' , I can't see how you can be other than that, you are alive and your engaged however you are engaged. You can be sitting in a cave doing zip all, or cleaning the planet from top to bottom and you are engaged. Your engaged if you are not caring for yourself or being a beauty queen. It's just madness to believe one sort of thing is different from another. You just have to do what you have to do and that's as engaged as you will ever be. |
Edited by - karl on Apr 06 2012 06:37:30 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 06:42:54 AM
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quote:
One size fits all ?
Did I imply that? It certainly was not intentional.
no dear Karl...you did not imply that....i was just afferming what Yogani said how each traveler's path is different...
nice ship analogy
sorry for any unintended misunderstanding |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 07:06:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
quote:
One size fits all ?
Did I imply that? It certainly was not intentional.
no dear Karl...you did not imply that....i was just afferming what Yogani said how each traveler's path is different...
nice ship analogy
sorry for any unintended misunderstanding
Different boat same sea |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 10:00:20 AM
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Hi Karl
quote:
Originally posted by karl
Carson says ' engaged in life' , I can't see how you can be other than that, you are alive and your engaged however you are engaged. You can be sitting in a cave doing zip all, or cleaning the planet from top to bottom and you are engaged. Your engaged if you are not caring for yourself or being a beauty queen. It's just madness to believe one sort of thing is different from another. You just have to do what you have to do and that's as engaged as you will ever be.
When I say that it's important to stay engaged in life I'm talking about maintaining the balance between regular daily activity and spiritual practices.
For me this means it's crucial to spend time everyday going to work, engaging with my daughter and picking up the dogsh*t (both figuratively and literally ).
For the past several years my days were formatted like this;
-Get up, spend 1-1.5hrs doing practices.
-Go to work, spend most of my day on the forum and in self-inquiry
-Come home, spend 1-1.5hrs doing practices
-Play with my daughter for an hour or so
-Go to the yoga studio and teach AYP classes
-Come home, go to bed and do it all over again the next day
The balance was WAY off and this was reflected in everything I did/said/thought. Now, after having Life give me a complete bitchslap, I've (finally) learned that going to work, doing the dishes, scrubbing the floors, eating, sleeping, mowing the lawn and shoveling the snow are just as much an important part of my practice as meditation and pranayama is. Without these balancing activities my system cannot handle spiritual practices at all. At least not right now.
Hope this clarifies.
Love!
Carson
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 1:25:28 PM
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Hi Carson,
There was no need to clarify I understand that it is what you need to do. Inner Guru and all that good stuff.
I just have no use for it.
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 2:50:02 PM
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so Karl i assume you dont help your wife in doing the dishes |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2012 : 6:07:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
so Karl i assume you dont help your wife in doing the dishes
Dishwasher
As I don't have a job I do all the cleaning, tidying and shopping. I'm a domestic God.  not so great with the cooking.
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loosing everything
