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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 12:13:01 PM
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Hello,
I mentioned a little about myself in my introductory thread but i thought i would write a bit more and put it out there in the hope that i can get help/advice.
I have been meditating for the last 4 years. It hasnt been regularly but more like in stops and starts, sometimes every day for a week, then none for a week, two three times a week, etc. But still, it has been 4 years.
In that time i have been a regular drinker. Yogani told me that this would retard the meditative process.
However, i was reflecting today on why nothing has happened in all this time. The most that i have ever felt was a little more calmness after getting up from meditation. But this was always like just getting up after a nap.
I speak to a lot of people online who tell me that they experience bliss, chakras, kundalini, and a still mind etc.
So today i was thinking about everything. And presently i have concluded that meditation and spinal breathing are forms of self-hypnosis or auto-suggestion. They enable the practitioner to go into trance. And i don't believe i am suceptible to hypnosis. My Mum once went for hypnosis to a professional and she couldnt be hypnotised.
However, i also think that belief has a big part to play in auto-suggestion in terms of feeling "bliss" and other phenomena AFTER the meditation session is over. I wish i was wrong.
So i am very frustrated with a lack of progress. For example, i met someone online who told me he used to drink so much that he would knock himself out and his life was a complete mess. But then he started to meditate and he felt bliss and was able to give up the drink. I feel cheated.
Another thought i had was this: if belief is a neccesary part of inducing self-hypnosic trance then it cannot be called scientific because, for example, my gameboy console doesnt depend upon me in order for it to work; it either works or it doesn't.
Sorry to rant on.
David |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 12:52:45 PM
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Oh David, I can almost feel your frustration. Let me tell you a story.. someone I know.. very close to me..used to, for 40 years smoke 2 packs a day and drank every night. He meditated all his life, but he was always looking for something.. all the time jumping from practice to practice.. experimenting with different kinds of healing and meditation. He was really good at healing.. (rather he still is really good at healing).. however, he never really got anywhere. If ever anyone told him.. all this drinking and smoking is adding too much dirt to your system.. he would blow it off by saying"Shob ma'er ichhe"(its all Ma Kali's wishes). Then he had a heart attack.. gave up smoking.. but continued his drinking. Excuse.. couple or three drinks a day was good for his heart..
5 or 6 years back he found a guru, got a mantra, started japa and meditation very seriously... He gave up drinking in a year after that. Few months back he told me, they were celebrating my cousins engagement and he had a glass of wine.. it threw off his inner peace for almost a week. So, if you think drinking does not effect your inner peace.. maybe it does. If you think meditation does not help in giving up drinking.. Hey, do it seriously.. not every day for a week and then stop for a week.. Everyday, twice a day.. if you don't try.. its no use saying the grapes are sour now.. is there?
If you are depressed and take medication for a week.. then give it up for a week and get depressed again.. it is not the medicine's fault now is it?
The only reason I am saying this is.. I had a few really bad habits.. tried all my life to give them up.. in a year of meditation I have.. and I was not meditating to give up on any habit.. I was meditating to find inner peace.. so if it was self hypnosis it wasn't aimed at the things I did get over.. Maybe you should stop meditating to give up drinking, and meditate to just enjoy it(meditating that is)..
I think if you are consistent.. you will enjoy it.. ups and downs are not helping..
quote:
I have been meditating for the last 4 years. It hasn't been regularly but more like in stops and starts, sometimes every day for a week, then none for a week, two three times a week, etc. But still, it has been 4 years
This person I am talking about meditated all his life (50 years +).. never seriously.. always looking for something new.. so your 4 years is not much compared to his 50+ years. Its only when he got serious and meditated Every day, twice a day did anything happen. Yes, only then he gave up drinking too.
Sorry if I was out of line with my reply. Please forgive me if I have hurt you in any way.
-Shanti |
Edited by - Shanti on Apr 26 2006 3:05:33 PM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 1:00:58 PM
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Hello David,
Thank you for sharing this about your life and experience with meditation. First, I think that the lack of results from meditation is because of irregular practice. It's of great importance that meditation is done regularly, as Shanti says, and deep meditation is intended to be done twice a day, as described in the lessons.
Then, when it comes to hypnosis, I'm of the firm opinion that this is a completely different process than meditation. Hypnosis deals with meaning, and the mind submits its will to another person's suggestions, or in the case of self-hypnosis, to suggestions given by oneself. In meditation, the will is actively involved to stay only with the mantra, and there is no meaning involved, so the mind is trained to go beyond meaning, which will lead to stillness. This will lead to ultimate control of all the processes in the mind, which hypnosis doesn't. This subject has also been discussed in depth in this topic: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....rms=hypnosis |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 1:07:53 PM
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| Thanks Weaver.. I like what you said about hypnosis.. could not put it in words what I was thinking.. you phrased it correctly. |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 1:33:59 PM
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Hi David,
You have raised a very good issue/topic about self-hypnosis and meditation. Even I dint see much of concrete experiences from meditation and I have been doing regularly twice a day for the past 1 year 3 months. Sometimes I too feel am i imagining things in feeling that meditation is making me more peaceful. Until we see some concrete experiences things will be like that. But I am sure something is happening inside and we are getting more purified day by day and getting nearer to having experiences. We are digging deep for gold, we dont know how far we are near to the gold. I might be just few inches away when I give up and I dont want that. Even though I havent seen results for myself, I believe purification is happening inside and I am not anyway spending all my day on it, just two 30 mins per day. So I'm not losing much in continuing it. Just make it like a regular habit like brushing teeth and forget about results. I used to worry like you for the first few months when i started AYP, now it is like a routine work that i do everyday. I dont even think much about it.
Most of these ppl who talk about bliss/energy/stillness, I found have been meditating much longer in other systems before they came into AYP. Also we have to agree that like normal intelligence, there is something called spiritual intelligence and there can be advanced souls who get results faster.
I also want to tell something about being regular. I am from India and have seen MANY ppl there who say they have been meditating and talk about spiritual stuff but have made no progress. The main reason I observed in most of them is that they are irregular and if the day gets busy, the first thing they skip is meditation. Even once a day isnt enough (atleast for AYP). Also if you want to see concrete experiences, work more on pranayama, mudras, bandhas which move the energy much faster when done along with meditation.
Just concentrate on making it a daily habit and you will see the results for yourself. Or else the other option is to give up now and come back to this forum after 5 or say 10 years and see myself and other ppl (who havent gotten any experiences now) talking about bliss/energy/stillness. You will have proof then but you would have lost few useful years. :)
-Near |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 3:01:39 PM
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wow, great posts near, Shanti and Weaver,
I would only add that if Gumpi were to follow all the lessons and practice pranayama and meditation the way it is outlined in AYP by Yogani (twice a day regularly), results will come, it's just a matter of time.
I couldn't feel my spinal nerve when I started, now I can, inner silence is increasing, I have more awareness, I have ecstasy out-side of practices sporadically now, never did before. These things come on very gradually over time, and are just the tip of the iceberg but they show me that AYP works. I haven't missed 1 practice in over a year, this probably speeds things along too. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 3:27:30 PM
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I agree with Anthem. In one year of meditation(missed just one day ), there have been so many changes.. there can be no doubt in my mind that AYP works. Also, 6 months back, I gave this person(that I talked about above) a deep meditation book, along with a copy of the first AYP lesson in spinal breathing. He told me, for the first time in his life.. he felt his practice was complete. He had never experienced anything like this before. He said, finally he thinks he has found what he has been looking for, for all these years. I am going to meet him in a month, and he cannot wait to get his hands on the AYP book I have bought for him.
quote:
I couldn't feel my spinal nerve when I started, now I can, inner silence is increasing, I have more awareness, I have ecstasy out-side of practices sporadically now, never did before. These things come on very gradually over time, and are just the tip of the iceberg but they show me that AYP works. I haven't missed 1 practice in over a year, this probably speeds things along too
Anthem, I still don't feel my spinal nerve.. but the rest.. I will go with what you say.. ecstasy out of practices.. these have been really distracting, esp. at work .. but I will take them any day... |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 4:11:07 PM
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| Hi David. I admire your efforts. One of my physical addictions has been alcohol. Fifteen years ago it was over a fifth of 90 proof bourbon a day (loved that tasty buzz). Then it was back to beer. After that I guzzled everclear 180 (or was it 190?)for a year. The next one was strong cheap beer for a few years. All this was in between a meth addiction. I worked during all this. If I didn't have the alcohol I'd begin to pass out so I had to keep the level up until it was time to pass out for a few hours at night. I went thru a few families this way. A friend once asked me why and I said I was trying to find the point between consciousness and unconsciousness. Between a year and two ago I finally began to leave it behind. I began to chant and meditate and do pranayama but it only worked for me when I dropped the poison. I've gone back to taste a few times in the last year and it wreaks such havoc in my new-found peace that I just can't go there. I guess I kicked myself enough. Don't know if this helps, your experience may be quite different but I do wish you the best. The Yoga is gentle and sublime, a real opener of awareness. To me it's quite the opposite of the drink. The trade was worth it. Peace, alan |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 4:26:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
i have concluded that meditation and spinal breathing are forms of self-hypnosis or auto-suggestion. They enable the practitioner to go into trance. And i don't believe i am suceptible to hypnosis. My Mum once went for hypnosis to a professional and she couldnt be hypnotised.
However, i also think that belief has a big part to play in auto-suggestion in terms of feeling "bliss" and other phenomena AFTER the meditation session is over. I wish i was wrong.
I know quite a bit about hypnosis. And this was a concern of mine as well (you can search for my prior postings on the topic.
Rather than going on and on, let me just cut to the quick.
This is all about hypnosis only if you do it wrong. The fact that you're less suggestible is a very very good thing. It helps you evade a potential sidetrack. It may also give you the illusion of taking longer, but really it's just that you're not getting fake stuff.
Sorry, but you'll have to take my word for it. I don't have words or concepts to "prove" what I'm saying. I can just say that I'm extremely aware of what you're seeing, and while it was once a concern, it is no longer one. |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 5:02:47 PM
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Gumpi,
The good news is that alcoholics have more sensitivity, life force and bhakti than the rest of us. The very act of unwinding this knot to whatever extent is a powerful contribution to the vibration of the world.
Some Tibetans would say that you've taken upon yourself a larger dose of the vibrational craziness of this planet when you chose your particular birth circumstances and inner propensities. So for some, it is much more difficult to find the way to basic peacefulness or wiz bang ecstasy, yet this is a perfect place for many super achiever bodhisattvas.
Esther Hicks says that some people are born into psychological Malibus and some people are born in psychological Bagdads... it's analogous to a professional tennis player not wanting to play easy games, but wanting to go up against the most challenging opponent possible in order to become an even better player.
-Yoda |
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gosay
9 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 8:04:51 PM
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@weaver".....This will lead to ultimate control of all the processes in the mind, which hypnosis doesn't"
----nothing in this life has to be controlled or can be controlled, all we can do is to infect the mind with love.
@gumpi
"...i have been a regular drinker. Yogani told me that this would retard the meditative process."
---i guess the actuall must ingrediant for meditation is a CHARACTER TO meditate...a personality that belives and gives priorities in love,peace,trust,forivenss of self and other, practicer of truth and honesty to heart...and so on.....my sirs guru, drinks heavy smokes grass heavy....but he medites rock stable a day or 2 without moving.
conclu: moral life is pivotal....not just just smoking and drinking affects.
---please practice some emotional intelligence workshops, please excersise , please eat healthy food....find ways o find peace.....if not this then the other.......what ever u do build u r reality, u r truth, u r belifs that work for u.
Life Under Construction---www.gosay.tk---
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 9:56:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gosay
weaver".....This will lead to ultimate control of all the processes in the mind, which hypnosis doesn't"
----nothing in this life has to be controlled or can be controlled, all we can do is to infect the mind with love.
I agree that my previous statement can be better formulated:
"This will lead to freedom from identification with all the processes of the mind, also called the witness, and thereby freedom from being controlled by them. This may appear like we are more in control. Hypnosis doesn't lead to this, there we will rather tend to be controlled by the suggestions we have been given." |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2006 : 03:06:46 AM
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| Thank you everyone for your kind words. I didn't percieve any harshness in your post, Shanti. And i have just woken today so i don't feel as frustrated as i was after meditating yesterday. It seems that alcohol really is the hindrance. I especially liked whoever said to not meditate to give up drinking but just to meditate. I think i am more fortunate than some alcoholics because i drink mainly out of habit and not addiction. My concern was whether meditation and pranayama are forms of self-hypnosis because i would view this as "watered-down" so to speak. Thanks again. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2006 : 3:07:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I especially liked whoever said to not meditate to give up drinking but just to meditate.
amen. and even more than that. Don't do meditate to do anything. Do meditation like you brush your teeth. If asked, you could give all sorts of smart-sounding rationales (stave off tooth decay and bad breath, be more attractive on dates, etc), but, really, it's just something you kind of do every day, with a vague awareness that not doing it would be a bad idea.
That's the exactly right attitude, whether you're a beginner or advanced.
It also staves off the whole hypnosis sidetrack. If you're not clutching at some sort of result, then there's no suggestibility. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 27 2006 3:07:40 PM |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2006 : 6:43:01 PM
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Welcome to the forum Gumpi sorry I'm late with this Ive been quite busy of late. Keep the posts coming 
RICHARD |
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Frustration
