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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 8:04:43 PM
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| Just in case anybody cares - which I'm starting to realize, basically nobody does - I investigated the comment made by a priest at a film festival the other night that "yoga is satanic" (as is Harry Potter). The short answer is "no" they didn't; he was NOT speaking as a representative of the Vatican. In fact, I was very pleasantly surprised to learn the Vatican's actual position on yoga in their official writings. But if anybody gives a sh*t, here is my blog regarding this: http://blog.lothlorienyoga.com/ |
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Swan
India
256 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 10:37:04 PM
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The news was published in Times of India, and yes reading it was little upsetting. Good to know from your blog that this is not an official statement.
And thanks for sharing your research and thoughts... |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2011 : 10:57:35 PM
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The general consensus of Christian teachings is hat Yoga is occult according to virtually everything I can find on the Internet. Interestingly most Sages and Gurus happily endorse Christian teachings.
Apparently it's worship God or else. There is a particular worry about Kundalini.
It actually bothered me for a while. Would be good to have input for others who will reach that crossroad. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 02:00:18 AM
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| Swan and Karl, Thank YOU for even caring! Karl, if you read the blog, my internet search "Catholic position on yoga" was overwhelmingly negative. BUT, when I went directly to the Vatican's official documents, this was not the case! This tells me, for one thing, that the priests and laypeople making the negative comments have not read those official documents...! And yes, many (but certainly not all) Christians consider yoga "occult," for no good reason. Yoga facilitates worship of God. I have discussed this at some length in this and previous blog posts. The concern about kundalini may be justified to some extent, as we have found here at AYP; people often have problems with that especially when they lack a solid foundation and/or guidance... anyway, I appreciate your feedback. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2011 : 04:34:09 AM
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I read your blog, essentially what I had found, including the fundamentalist statements that the church had strayed too far from its roots. The Bible was referenced many times and I have to admit that if you believe it to be none other than the word of God, it does make for a compelling case.
I am also from an atheist background having seen and heard enough of those who are vehement and influential in all religions. The rank and file tend to be lovely, genuine people who are trying to be the best they can be and not because they fear Hell.
Equally there are enough verses in the bible to place considerable doubt on the teachings and practices of the Catholic Church. However, many of the writings are very contradictory as most people are aware, so how do you tell true from false?
Eventually I came across a writing which is alleged to be the question above all questions that can be asked of anybody or anything to root out the false teachings. I tried it and the Jury's out. The problem of that approach is obvious to anyone who knows that the internal voice is more than a little difficult to separate from the voice of God. As yet, neither God or the Devil have appeared in person on our high street in order for me to check its efficacy.
I practice DM, Pranayama, Samyana and Asanas. We did have a discussion recently that picked up on the need for Divine energy flow through the body. It's at that point when I begin to question what I'm doing. It makes me uneasy. I reckon it's similar to saying you need blood flowing through the veins to be alive, it's either a given that it is already happening without any need for encouragement, or it strikes me that it just feels wrong, or I have misunderstood.
I'm out of step with the Chakra and Kundalini practices, something does not feel quite right for me on a personal level so my practises are not about encouraging that side of things. Maybe that will place some limitations on growth I dont know, I just have to go with gut feeling.
I'm wary of all attempts at declaring something the right way and sticking to it dogmatically. It has to be tried in earnest and evaluated. There needs to be enough strength to see it through until ithat process is completed, without being persuaded that it's either the perfect path or, the Devils work.
It is until it isn't is my motto. Have an open mind, but not an empty one.
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 02:06:53 AM
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| Karl, thanks so much for your thoughtful feedback! I do not believe the Bible to be the literal "word of God" in the sense of being dictated word for word and/or infallible. IMO the Bible is a collection of writings - by men - depicting the Hebrew peoples' journey and their (limited) understanding of God. So the fundie statements are not that compelling to me. "How do you tell true from false?" For me it is not a matter of "belief" anymore. I don't "believe" in God; I experience God. Words are inadequate. You said "Divine energy flow" makes you uneasy. Please elaborate, how does it make you uneasy and why? Is it just the language or the experience itself? I do think gut feeling is useful unless you have a very strong reason to think otherwise. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 07 2011 : 04:13:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
Karl, thanks so much for your thoughtful feedback! I do not believe the Bible to be the literal "word of God" in the sense of being dictated word for word and/or infallible. IMO the Bible is a collection of writings - by men - depicting the Hebrew peoples' journey and their (limited) understanding of God. So the fundie statements are not that compelling to me. "How do you tell true from false?" For me it is not a matter of "belief" anymore. I don't "believe" in God; I experience God. Words are inadequate. You said "Divine energy flow" makes you uneasy. Please elaborate, how does it make you uneasy and why? Is it just the language or the experience itself? I do think gut feeling is useful unless you have a very strong reason to think otherwise.
Yes I agree. I was pointing out that for those who do not experience God in the way you describe the Bible can create confusion resulting in a rejection of Yoga as something bad.
Maybe the uneasiness is similar about divine energy is similar? It often sounds to me that there is considerable focus on the energy side of Yoga. Maybe it is a Kineasthetic preference that is part of spiritual opening for others and just feels slightly alien to me, in the same way as not everyone is great with hugging and kissing as every day greetings.
I have the idea that a physical manifestation is unescessary and in my case unwanted. I'm going to leave my Chakras well alone, I don't want Crown openings or Kundalini fireworks. Divine energy seems to sit alongside those experiences.
I think it stems from an early age when I attempted an out of body experience (I was young and daft, we were trying Quija boards and the rest). The experience of being outside my body scared me badly and I put that particular Jack back in its box. I reason that if Divine energies and Chakras happen then they will happen naturally, just like puberty. None of us actually concentrated on puberty, or got excited that it was a Chakra opening, it just happened when the time was right. It seems to me that it is an encouragement of scenery at the very best, at it's worst it can be extremely frightening and that doesn't fit with my ideas of spiritual growth. I really don't need the fireworks, if they happen then I will get on with it.
As a previously confirmed Atheist, it doesn't sit too well either. It seems irreverent in some way. I wasn't going around on my knees drinking wine and eating bits of bread to signify taking Jesus into myself, or singing at the top of my lungs for the holy spirit to enter me. Something jars with the commandment not to worship false idols. I don't think that is actually a commandment which will result in a bolt of lightning or a one way trip to the South of heaven, but it is a sort of guide. If you spread your devotion then your progress will be more fragmented. Kundalini and coiled snakes seems along those lines and hence I've lumped everything else in there with them.
 This has been quite cathartic, I've never tried to put that into words. Tended to put it in the box marked " weird stuff related to occult worship and not suitable for me". |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 02:33:54 AM
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| Karl, hmm, interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this! I'm glad it was a "cathartic" experience for you. I agree that it may be a matter of personality/preference in terms of our individual approach to yoga. E.g., some people are more jnana, others are more bhakti, others go for the kundalini rush. I'm sure the journey is different for each of us. Also I agree with you that Divine energy flow and chakra openings will happen for you if/when they are supposed to, as you continue with your spiritual practice... I do recall that when I first converted to Christianity many years ago I was a bit concerned about kundalini and such, despite being a fairly advanced yogini at that time, mainly due to the dire warnings of other Christians who, although very sincere, were quite uneducated about yoga. Fortunately, as my relationship with the Lord deepened over time, the fears evaporated and the yoga got more intense. It is all just incredibly delicious and wonderful to me now. But I can certainly understand that these issues may exist for people. Thanks again for sharing your insights. |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 06:28:50 AM
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The whole satanic thing really got me questioning lately and I couldn't really shake off the quesstions nor am I at the end with every answer given, I know it doesn't fit 100% into this discussion but maybe someone can take something from it.
The Sanskrit root Sat means wisdom
555 is the number of man and the 5th chakra is anahata the heart chakra
666 is the number of satan, sat comes from wisdom and the 6th chakra is ajna the third eye
777 is the number of god and also the crown chakra, the direct connection the heavenly father above or the superconsciousness if you will (superconsciousness doesn't mean better, but moreso somewhat like "higher" consciousness, just as there is a lower consciousness - the subconsciousness)
But it is said that lucifer is a fallen angel and if I didn't mess anything up in my mind he wants the "blind humanity" to suffer, to change the scenery of god's movie so to say.
Maybe someone can help me out with that? I accept emails I think but you can also say it in this post I guess it wouldn't bother anyone
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 08:48:30 AM
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This is a really interesting documentary about the origins of Satan.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/history-devil/
As they mention in the doc Satan only appears one time in the Old Testament to test Job, not as a vain and power hungry fallen angel.
And 666 was a type of Roman slang used to curse Nero before it made it into Revelations. Lucifer in Greek means Lighter Bearer and referred to the North Star, I believe. |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 12:26:43 PM
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isn't lucifer latin? I'm not quite sure
an enlightened guy said in a book of him that "devils" just test us by bringing up fear and negative emotions
by the way satan is symbolised by the all-seeyin-eye I should've added that |
Edited by - escapado on Dec 08 2011 12:51:10 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 1:39:17 PM
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oh well,..The Devil wears Prada |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 4:44:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
oh well,..The Devil wears Prada
LOL! |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 4:50:47 PM
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RE: numerology and linguistic analysis ("sat" in Sanskrit versus Latin or whatever?) and all such speculations aside, a simpler approach is what Jesus suggested: "Know a tree by its fruits."
Galatians 5:22-23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control..." In my experience these are indeed the fruits of a consistent daily yoga practice powered by bhakti, guided by the sutras and abiding in ishvarapranidhana.
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 5:28:33 PM
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I approve
I just wanted to try and shed some light on the whole devil story
Because Lucife might just be what we expected least
A friend of mine once said Lucifer is him who shows you which side you're on if you look at it through the dualistic good/evil scheme |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2011 : 6:29:29 PM
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You can't have light without dark. There needs to be a silence between each beat of a drum, each note, each word. In us all is the shadow and the light, we don't need to probe too much to find that. Not good and evil as much as opposites. I think it's the cradle of creativity, the current that flows between two polarities.
The light is spiritual, the dark, material. Just my 2cents. |
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Did the Vatican say Yoga is Satanic?
