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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 25 2011 : 5:02:46 PM
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Greetings to All
I would like to start out this discussion with a little background on myself in order to have a better understanding of my present concern. I have been practicing yoga for about 15 years. I joined early on and am presently a member of SRF. I first became acquainted with AYP about 7 years ago. I have and more so recently been adding AYP techniques to my regular SRF practices. The concern I have presently is that as I begin my meditations (both SRF and AYP) I quickly get caught up in my thoughts and begin to focus on verses and other ideas that I lack clear understanding. Upon directing my attention to these, I very quickly get profound deep meanings to these ideas. The problem is I seem to enjoy this very much. It is almost like having a mental orgasm. As such, I am finding it very difficult let go and just do the prescribed routine. I am not sure if this is a problem or not. I know AYP refers to this as scenery. Again the trouble I am having is letting go of it. Perhaps I should just enjoy for now and let it pass latter on. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcomed |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2011 : 7:33:52 PM
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Hi Mikananda,
If it helps to just know, you're not alone with that.
I have also noticed that the insights even appear deeper or are perhaps appreciated better while meditating as opposed to outside of that state while reflecting back. Sometimes the insights just spring up on their own, and at times do not make much sense if taken too far outside grasping them in an abstract intuitive sense.
In my case, I don't know if it was the transition from silent to mantra meditation, or just time, but either way it has become easier to carry over the habit of returning to the mantra even if the cue is so much more attractive or even urgently needed at times. |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2011 : 8:15:22 PM
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| Thank you for your reply and comments. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2011 : 9:31:04 PM
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Oh yes, mental orgasm, I remember those very well. Nearly made me quit as I couldn't get past them. It was either very realistic visual and sensory scenery, or just a building wave of energy that felt like my skull was expanding with the press. It could come in short or quite long, exhausting intervals.
Then there were the dreams!
I persevered and they began to die away, just keeping in mind they are scenery. If they get too much then self pace and cut back. It seems that it is quantity of times that you meditate, keeping it regular, than the length of a session. So, small and often. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 05:56:38 AM
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quote:
The concern I have presently is that as I begin my meditations (both SRF and AYP)
hello Mikananda ...my concern is that you are doing way too much...it is best not to mix practices....
Love |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 06:46:24 AM
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I agree; i used to belong to SRF also. the two meditations are not compatible, and it is best to do one or the other. I don't do SRF practices anymore because I found AYP is much easier for the same results, and I am kinda lazy. It may be different for you - you have to decide for yourself.
AYP is compatible with almost any religion, and many people practice AYP meditation and still follow their own religion. The reason for that is that meditation and bhakti are the two most important ingredients, and most religions don't emphasize meditation. I don't know if you call SRF a religion, but since they do emphasize meditation, you have to do one or the other.
The most important thing is, if you do AYP meditation, keep the times short as specified in the lessons, but do it twice a day.
If you do SRF meditation, you can meditate for long hours like SRF suggests, but DO NOT use the AYP mantra meditation for those long sessions.
You have to pick just one system for a few months and see which works best for you. |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 08:24:37 AM
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Thanks Etherfish
Yes, I feel as if I am coming to a crossroad. Before I joined SRF, I was a fundamental Christian. Upon joining SRF, I struggled with the thought that I was abandoning Christ. Now I have the same thought with Yogananda. Every path seems to require complete loyalty. However, I do believe that one can build one practice that is a unity of several. Still I have these thoughts. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2011 : 09:49:31 AM
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I am sure you know that nothing is abandoned. You felt you were abandoning Christ for Yogananda, but Yogananda's writings are very supportive of Christ, and show how the two teach very similar things. Modern day Christians have added a lot of things to Jesus' teachings, and they are good people so they have a lot of followers. I follow all the teachings of Jesus, but don't belong to any church.
mikananda wrote:
" Every path seems to require complete loyalty. "
That's where AYP is different. Loyalty here is by choice, not by requirement. Add that to Yogani not wanting to be put on a pedestal, and we have a paradigm shift.
AYP gives you all the information you need to build your own system. Lots of people are doing that here.
The religions would have you think that each one of them is a valid system, and to build your own goes against God or something. But the truth is that very few people actually fit 100% with most religions, and it is the religions themselves that hold people back on their enlightenment path by telling us what to think and what to practice, without knowing individual spiritual needs.
The lessons here and books, tell about finding your inner silence through meditation, then you will find your inner guru. Let that be your guiding force rather than outside yourself, and it is a much more useful connection to God. How do know when you have a connection to God? Because a feeling of knowing is part of the package. It doesn't come from reasoning.
If you feel loyalty to Yogananda, you can use AYP meditation, and use Yogananda as your ishta, or highest ideal. Yogananda would want what is best for you and would not object to your trying other methods of meditation. The people at SRF stick to only one system because Yogananda is not physically there anymore and nobody else as great as him can take over.
That's where the paradigm shift comes in. SRF says you don't need a living guru anymore. AYP says you don't need any OUTER guru anymore. |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:17:57 AM
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Etherfish
Sorry for the slow reply. One thing I like to consider is: what is this thing inside you that is called guru? For in reality. The guru is not inside you. You are inside the guru. All systems use accomodations (deception). One feeds milk to a baby until he strong enough to eat meat. For if you do not eat your meat you can't have any pudding  . Any thoughts? |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 07:52:48 AM
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All know what is needed. It is the small, soft voice. It is in the consciousness like the pattern in DNA. It manifests at the same time as the I begins, it has no place. If it is ignored then it will create circumstances. Some might call it the word of God.
Be still and know that I am God.
Does the Guru also deceive ? Why would it? What advantage could be gained? Doesn't mean that the lessons or actions are easily linked. God moves in mysterious ways only if you refuse to listen |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 08:30:17 AM
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Yes "in you" is only an expression. All words are only approximations. the proof is in the pudding (practices).  |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 10:03:33 PM
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Thank you Karl and Etherfish for you input.
Yes, we are bound by language. Isn't this whole world a deception (maya). Does the guru deceive? I know that one can deceive oneself. Is that small soft voice the guru or your ego? Guru means dispeller of darkness. For striving cannot be taught by words of wisdom, by words of science, but by the example if live achievement. It has been written that he who finds a guru finds a great blessing. We all look to a higher athority to validate our actions. That is why we say So & So says this and So & So says that. For if it walks like a guru and speaks like a guru the chances are good it is a guru. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 10:26:14 PM
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Your inner guru will lead you to a world full of gurus, from inanimate objects to kids and animals. As you get to know your inner guru, you will learn where deception can come from, and know how to tell the difference. This is what happened to me:
I developed a good connection with my inner guru, and it started feeding me information. I got so amazed at this that I concentrated on it, and pretty soon my mind started throwing out guesses that simulated the inner guru giving me truth. I went through a period of frustration, not knowing what was true.
I asked my inner guru to show me. I began to notice a difference. Information from the guru came without my trying to do anything, and without expecting anything. The information from my mind had a feeling of generating something, a sort of effort involved even though not conscious.
What is exciting to know is that your inner guru can be used to verify itself like this. So when the excitement of making this connection died down somewhat, I forgot about any sort of trying to get this instant information. And then it normalized to just a little bit here and there, no effort involved, not being controlled by me, and always true. |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2011 : 10:30:45 PM
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| Well said. It is a joy to speak with one who has given rise to an awakened mind |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 03:49:56 AM
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If Maya = illusion. Then, if your world is deception then how can you know that statement to be anything else, but another deception?
Start with the simple things and only what you can verify, not that which you are told, or that which you remember, be scientific. If it can't be verified or stand the test of logic then it should be ignored.
I am because I exist.
Before you wake up, when you are in a deep dreamless sleep. Do you still exist? Does the world exist?
This is a pole star, a single point by which you can navigate.
Inquire to whom the world arises?
It is unimportant that the world is a deception or an illusion. It exists when you are awake and disappears when you are in deep sleep. That is all you can know.
So, if it is an illusion, then who's illusion is it?
If it deceives then who's deception is it?
You see YOUR world as separate, created by something to deceive you.
Why?
What would happen if the illusion vanished?
You already know the answer to that question.
Without the illusion what remains?
Who then put every object and Guru into the illusion?
Who then identified with them but regarded them as seperate from self?
If you use the simple idea that you exist and inquire to whom the world arises. If you can know what you are in deep, dreamless sleep then you can start from that point.
It is so simple really. You are the very thing you are searching for.
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Edited by - karl on Nov 30 2011 04:09:40 AM |
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Mikananda
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 07:52:06 AM
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Well said Karlji and I agree
Yes a deception inside a deception inside another deception. A woman was once asked what is that is holding up the Earth? She said it is a layer of elephants. And what is holding up the layer of elephants? She said it is another layer of elephants. And what is holding up that layer. She said it is no good, it is layers of elephants all the way. There is nothing that is a separate self that exist by it's self. All is the result of dependent co-arising. For now I see in part, but there comes a time when I see in whole. For if one does not see the world as separate. Why would you take up yoga in the first place. |
Edited by - Mikananda on Nov 30 2011 6:59:18 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 10:42:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikananda
For now I see in part, but there comes a time when I see in whole. For if one does not see the world as separate. Why would you take up yoga in the first place.
Totally.Just as it is meant to. It cannot be forced. You go willingly or not at all. As they say, when the fruit is ready it drops from the tree. Good to know that you are ripening though.?
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Maciej
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2012 : 06:21:34 AM
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Yoga brings flexibility in your body, Yoga helps in breathing better,
Yoga increased your strength,
Yoga stable autonomic nervous system balance... |
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axelschlotzhauer
Germany
150 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2012 : 09:17:28 AM
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Surely having a good sitting posture and relaxed breathing allowing a good presence and longer meditation time may already be sufficient for avoiding wandering thoughts in a distracted unconcentrated way more dreaming as really present.
But the exit point is a pretended opposition contemplation vs. meditation needing clarification. It is a wrong outgrow from Christian tradition seeing contemplation as a dwelling over biblical words and ideas like in a sermon as contemplation in catholic catechism as cited in the present string of Lili. But
meant is contemplation as highest realization of the inner senses. Meditation is the pre-stage for it by the person trying to reach this stage by his activity.
Therefore in this sense there is no opposition. Lili's string cites also the twelve levels of prayer of Teresa of Avila what can be like a repeated mantra with a bibleword or so. At the beginning is a sort of pratyahara of the outer senses from an outer object, a green meadows for example, to the inner senses and return to it for grounding the process.
Discursive prayer is an early and nearest to a sermon dwelling on ideas.
Contemplation is a response and this way a more passive mode by a reaction as e.g. inner pictures by god.But the meaning changes. So contemplation is used in the above sense of meditation in thinking methods breaking through to the higher levels like the ekstatic kabbala of Abulafia using senseless words and repetitions of single letters. Similar Elsbeth Stagel as head of a nun monastery
and pupil of Seuse in demanding thinking exercises for novices basing on daily duties in the garden and pigs.
You may get silence and non-thinking in a sort of emptiness or sunyata,
Axel |
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Contemplation vs Meditation
