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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 26 2011 : 11:47:02 AM
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Hi all,
As awareness increased, the expectations are more and more fully revealed. I was aware that somebody’s supposed to reply my email or phone call way earlier, but didn’t. (I can see that some of the replies were just held off by life so that I could realize the expectations and learn to let them go.) I was checking on facebook on the party attenders to see if there are some interesting people, or unwelcome people. I was aware that the flow is slightly blocked, held off, when even I wasn’t sure the answer to a question and knew I might gave the wrong answer in a test. There were even a couple of sparks of anger when expectations were not fulfilled in interaction with a friend.
Is there anything else besides constantly noticing and letting go? I feel the desire to go to the root of it and clean it out. But somehow something is missing in my self-inquiry tool kit. Any tips, suggestions, advice? Thanks a lot!
Phil |
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escapado
Germany
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2011 : 12:48:24 PM
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notice the noticing and let it go, maybe? 
Sorry I don't know, just saying  |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2011 : 1:18:02 PM
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Hi Phil,
Your insightful comments on letting go and expectations bear a striking thematic resemblance to a little meditation I pulled together and shared with a centering prayer group a couple of weeks ago. Here it is
In his book Manifesting God (2005, p.32), Thomas Keating comments on St. Paul's "love chapter" (1 Corinthians 12:31-13:7). "...having whetted the appetite of his disciples for the spiritual journey with a full listing of the charismatic gifts, Paul concludes with this striking statement: 'Now I will show you the way that surpasses all others.' It is the more excellent path of pure love (the self-giving disposition that in Greek is called agape and in Latin caritas)... It is the grace of inward transformation through which the divine life itself is actually transmitted to us."
Following the translation Keating uses, here are the characteristics of that all-surpassing path of divine transformation:
It is patient.
It is kind.
It is not jealous.
It does not put on airs, is not snobbish, is never rude, is not self-seeking.
It is not prone to anger, neither does it brood over injuries.
It does not rejoice in what is wrong, but rejoices in the truth.
There is no limit to its forbearance, its trust, its hope, its power to endure.
It never fails.
Discerning the changes people go through along the spiritual path, Keating writes, "...they let go of their naive expectations for the spiritual journey. The experience of their weakness and the disintegration of their support systems are self-evident... in fact, it almost feels as if God couldn't care less what they do. Here is where the hymn of Paul to divine love is particularly useful: "Love bears everything." Augustine's paraphrase for this injunction is, "Love bears the unbearable." In other words, love remains calm and peaceful at a deep level even when all of the rest of our faculties are buried in the debris of unfulfilled expectations." (p. 50) |
Edited by - bewell on Sep 26 2011 1:41:30 PM |
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Sep 26 2011 : 10:50:50 PM
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Hi Bewell,
Thanks for sharing the wisdom from St. Paul!
Here love spontaneously is when we let it flow as it does, and let it be as it is.
Hi Escapado, thanks for the tip!
It is again Mooji dissolves the confusion.
and love to you, brothers:) |
Edited by - Pheel on Sep 26 2011 10:55:25 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2011 : 03:02:20 AM
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The letting go is ongoing meditation and would indicate the witness is up and running and some degree of stillness of mind is present.
Self inquiry is different. It is far less forgiving than DM as it can tie the mind in knots if stillness is not yet advanced sufficiently. Read Yoganis lessons on self inquiry to check if you are at the right stage to begin this additional work.
Even at the right stage SI can be a bit unsettling so tread with care. There are many pitfalls and many who have fallen.
Routing out the thought behind the emotion is correct, however the real question is to ask to who the thought occurs? This to every thought without discrimination. You can maybe understand why this can prove more difficult if you have to ask "to who does the need for DM occur?" it's easy to arrive in a wasteland in which there seems to be no requirement for any action and you can easily drift into a sleep state which becomes enormously attractive - the so called yoga nidra
In the end none of this can actually harm you, your inner Guru directs your actions and if you should end up in one of the bear traps it still serves it's purpose as a lesson. If you are ready for SI then it can be like a rocket booster, just remember that a rocket needs steering and the faster it travels the quicker the steering needs to be otherwise it crashes, explodes or runs out of fuel.
Adyashanti has a good chapter in his book entitled the end of your world in which he outlines the common delusions, traps and points of fixation and so has the book called 'be as you are' by Sri Ramana Maharshi.
Remember that nothing is set in stone or an exact science a lot of this you just have to fathom for yourself by feeling the way forward, it is far less guided than straight forward DM which has very few pitfalls due to it's built in safety features.
Drive carefully |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2011 : 11:47:13 PM
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Great topic, thanks everyone. Thank you Karl for reminding me that sometimes when I'm overcome by an emotion from nowhere that the root thought that first brought the emotion into existence has long since vanished (or at least gone very deep). I'm not at the stage yet where I can remember what scary thought created the now phantom emotion, so they remain though at lesser occurances... Maybe I'll get there someday?
Thanks, |
Edited by - lmaher22 on Oct 06 2011 12:29:24 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2011 : 02:05:41 AM
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quote:
however the real question is to ask to who the thought occurs? This to every thought without discrimination.
yes even to the positive thoughts like being peaceful and at ease.....we tend to be carried away by the experience of such positive feelings and we forget to ask to whom are they happening...we tend to get attached to positive thoughts...
whether thoughts are negative or positive it is the same ... the presence of thoughts independently of their nature still indicate the presence of mental waves....our vedanta is still green |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2011 : 03:44:25 AM
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Yes and for those without sufficient stillness this can be counter productive. It can't be over stated enough that without sufficient stilllness, inquiring of good, positive thoughts can be a passport to gross depression.
The phrase "I am in the world, not of it" springs to mind. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2011 : 06:13:25 AM
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Great topic. I have also been wondering exactly along this line as Philaboston - "Is there anything else besides constantly noticing and letting go?"
I have become a lot more aware. I notice and let go. I thought I was ready for some direct self-enquiry, so I read the much recommended Byron Katie - Loving what is - I tried it on a couple of issues in my life. I very rapidly understood the underlying truth of my issues but there was no big light bulb going off or emotional burst.
However the form of self-enquiry talked about here by Karl - "Routing out the thought behind the emotion is correct, however the real question is to ask to who the thought occurs? This to every thought without discrimination." - is still a mystery to me. But I am intrigued. Asking "myself" this question brings no answer. I am of often aware that I am the awareness behind but directly asking the question feels like a dead-end.
I would be grateful for some more guidance.
sey
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2011 : 06:41:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
However the form of self-enquiry talked about here by Karl - "Routing out the thought behind the emotion is correct, however the real question is to ask to who the thought occurs? This to every thought without discrimination." - is still a mystery to me. But I am intrigued. Asking "myself" this question brings no answer. I am of often aware that I am the awareness behind but directly asking the question feels like a dead-end.
Hi Sey
I have been doing the self enquiry for quite a while now.
For example: To whom does this emotion/ thought arise?
Sometimes my mind says, very sheepishly, "me" (silly mind, he knows he's wrong  ), or there is silence.
So then I ask: "Who am I?"
No answer there. I just get an energy movement or nothing. The way I see it is it's like Samyama: you just let the question go into stillness.
When you say it is a dead end ask who is asking for an answer . Now it's getting confusing.
This form of enquiry is what Yogani calls Transcending http://www.aypsite.org/350.html
When we do find the answer I doubt there will be any more questions. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2011 : 11:58:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Great topic. I have also been wondering exactly along this line as Philaboston - "Is there anything else besides constantly noticing and letting go?"
I have become a lot more aware. I notice and let go. I thought I was ready for some direct self-enquiry, so I read the much recommended Byron Katie - Loving what is - I tried it on a couple of issues in my life. I very rapidly understood the underlying truth of my issues but there was no big light bulb going off or emotional burst.
However the form of self-enquiry talked about here by Karl - "Routing out the thought behind the emotion is correct, however the real question is to ask to who the thought occurs? This to every thought without discrimination." - is still a mystery to me. But I am intrigued. Asking "myself" this question brings no answer. I am of often aware that I am the awareness behind but directly asking the question feels like a dead-end.
I would be grateful for some more guidance.
sey
Katies work isnt really self inquiry. Its tricky because it looks like it should be. Its actually better suited to helping some of the existing problems out for someone prior to full engaging in DM. Subsequently DM moves us to the next stage of preparedness and then effortlessy tips us into the more advanced stages.
You have identified the thing that makes SI difficult to apply unless sufficient stillness is present and it can result with a 'banging head off brick wall' frustration or a loss of all inertia.
So, if you are sure you want to go down this route then the first test is to see if you remain at the point when you first begin to wake from a deep, dreamless sleep. Before you knew a world existed, before you realised anything but a primeval awareness.
It is at this deep point that the questions go a bit Quantum if you will excuse the expression. To know what you are and then have to contend with the world around you. It will create a paradox in which death is no longer feared and your own destruction seems preferable to the remaining duality. Yet the mind cannot conceive of it and holds even more tightly on to the perception of its own reality in order to survive. If you don't excape this gravity then you will either drop into a sort of lethargic coma or bring up so many anxieties and fears that you will surely wish you hadn't decided to peek.
I came across something from the Bible which I hope you dont mind me posting it. I came across it when I looked to see if anyone else had used the phrase "I am in the world, not of it" and has been expanded upon.
I AM NOT OF THIS WORLD
Ye have heard that it hath been said,
An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil.
These things I have spoken unto you,
that in me ye might have peace.
In the world ye shall have tribulation:
but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
My Kingdom is not of this world because it is in you. And you are of your Father. Your Kingdom is not of this world because it was given you from beyond this world.
The world is not left by death but by truth, and the truth can be known by all those for whom the Kingdom was created, and for whom it waits.
If you will accept the fact that I am with you, you are denying the world and accepting God. My will is His, and your decision to hear me is the decision to hear His voice and abide in His Will.
The world can add nothing to the power and the glory of God and His Holy Sons, but it can blind the Sons to the Father if they behold it.
You cannot behold the world and know God. Only one is true. I am come to tell you the choice of which is truth is not yours to make. If it were, you would have destroyed yourself. Yet God did not will the destruction of His creations, having created them for eternity. His Will has saved you, not from yourself but from your illusion of yourself. He has saved you for yourself.
What God did not create does not exist. And everything that does exist exists as He created it.
The world you see has nothing to do with reality. It is of your own making, and it does not exist.
Here in the present is the world set free. As you let the past be lifted and release the future from your ancient fears, you find escape and give it to the world.
You have enslaved the world with all your fears, your doubts and miseries, your pains and tears, and all your sorrows press on it, and keep the world a prisoner to your beliefs. Death strikes it everywhere because you hold the bitter thoughts of death within your mind.
To free the world from every kind of pain is but to change your mind about yourself. There is no world apart from your ideas because ideas leave not their source, and you maintain the world within your mind in thought.
Salvation, perfect and complete, asks but a little wish that what is true be true; a little willingness to overlook what is not there; a little sigh that speaks for Heaven as a preference to this world that death and desolation seem to rule.
In joyous answer will creation rise within you, to replace the world you see with Heaven, wholly perfect and complete.
What is forgiveness but a willingness that truth be true?
Yet you are not asked to dispel your hallucinations alone. You are merely asked to evaluate them in terms of their results to you. If you do not want them on the basis of loss of peace, they will be removed from your mind for you.
If you are willing to renounce the role of guardian of your thought system and open it to me, I will correct it very gently and lead you back to God.
Where concept of the self have been laid by is truth revealed exactly as it is. When every concept has been raised to doubt and question, and been recognized as made on no assumptions that would stand the light, then is the truth free to enter in its sanctuary, clean and free of guilt.
There is no statement that the world is more afraid to hear than this:
"I do not know the thing I am,
and therefore do not know what I am doing, where I am,
or how to look upon the world or on myself."
Yet in learning this is salvation born. And what you are will tell you of Itself.
Come home. You have not found your happiness in foreign places and in alien forms that have no meaning to you, though you sought to make them meaningful. This world is not where you belong. You are a stranger here.
God's welcome waits for us all, and He will welcome us as I am welcoming you. Forget not the Kingdom of God for anything the world has to offer.
"Father, the truth belongs to me. My home is set in Heaven by Your Will and mine. Can dreams content me? Can illusions bring me happiness? What but Your memory can satisfy Your Son? I will accept no less than You have given me. I am surrounded by Your Love, forever still, forever gentle and forever safe. God's Son must be as You created him."
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2011 : 01:32:18 AM
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Thank you Woosa /Karl. On one occasion (about last year) that I have asked the awareness "Who am I?" I got a female name. On a separate occasion that I asked again - this time under totally different circumstances; the first time was idle curiosity, the second time was a past trauma which I was re-visiting in my mind but simply observing and not participating and I could hear "someone" sobbing deep inside me and I asked "Who is crying?" I got a different female name. Both names do not have any special meaning to me. And funnily the voice who answered was a male and the answer was - she is X (said in a slightly exasperated manner). So I was asking myself - How many of us are there in there?? and was feeling quite delusional. Split personalities??
I digress. But mostly I get absolutely no answer. Not that I have bothered much with Self-enquiry. I was taking Yogani's advice and letting things flow naturally. But I have been getting the feeling that I am in a rut and not progressing at all, like I expressed in another thread. So I am open to additions to my practices.
Beautiful Quote Karl. Do you have the exact chapter/ paragraph where you can find it in the bible?
Thks
Sey |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2011 : 03:51:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
[So I was asking myself - How many of us are there in there?? and was feeling quite delusional. Split personalities??
I digress. But mostly I get absolutely no answer. Not that I have bothered much with Self-enquiry. I
Beautiful Quote Karl. Do you have the exact chapter/ paragraph where you can find it in the bible?
I found the passage on another website which was called something like 'acourseinmiracles.com' it was a random find if you know what I mean wherein nothing is random.
Accept that 'in a rut' feeling with humility. It is exactly what is required, it is your mind attempting to twist something into dis-satisfaction and return things to the status quo of like and dislike, want and don't want, good and bad. It is the onset of fear. Fear that you might not be progressing. In that fear the suffering lies. Accept the feeling as beautiful and loving, be open to it fully and you will see that not a grain of self doubt lives there.
I would suggest that the time for self inquiry is not yet come. The voices you hear are real in your world. Once I think they were called demons, they have many faces, many voices. Some call it Karma. It doesn't matter, it only has one source. The voices are not around when you are deep in dreamless sleep, only when you are arise, they rise also. They are impermanent but are given power over you because you wish it.
These impermanent voices are strong, you make them that way. Continuing with DM is the way for you. SI will charge the illusion with greater power, this is why I said that you would wish you had not peeked. When you have no voices, when the stillness is found, then is the time for SI if your Guru moves in that direction. |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - Oct 07 2011 : 03:53:28 AM
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very well expressed woosa....i always find difficuly in expressing the self enquiry system ...i might email your post to some friends if u dont mind |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2011 : 01:52:10 AM
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| Thank you so much Karl for your insight and advice. You are right I should accept the "in a rut" feeling with humility. |
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Expectations
