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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 01:58:44 AM
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Has anyone heard of a system of internal alchemy called kunlun nei gung?
From what I have heard, it is a very powerful system of internal alchemy that originated from the spiritual masters of the kunlun mountains.
There is a website: http://www.kunlunbliss.com/
Some of the videos on the site seem to be bogus, but I have spoken with people who have personally been to workshops with Max, and they say that he is the real deal. I am extremely interested in learning some of these teachings and integrating them into my own sadhana.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 5:39:58 PM
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Hi,
Not heard of this one but look at John Chang on youtube for his Neigung.
L&L
Dave |
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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2008 : 4:35:03 PM
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Yeah I have heard of john chang before, but he practices a different form on neigung called Mo-Pai, not Kunlun. But none the less, neigung of any flavor is rather powerful.
Here is a vid of Max demonstrating the power of kunkund neigung:
http://www.lamathunderbolt.com/
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Edited by - Gnosis on Jan 13 2008 02:08:18 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 3:57:43 PM
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I've been looking into Kunlun, since you've posted this, Gnosis. It looks really interesting to me...I'm thinking of attending the seminars to get into it.
The teacher says that it has nothing to do with kundalini. It brings energy down and cools. Very interesting! |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 5:14:16 PM
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So, I ordered the book, "Pillars of Bliss". To be honest I am not impressed at all with the book. It's not something to read and gain any information on. The only useful part is regarding the actual practice...which could just be written online, and the reader could be spared the introduction and everything...but from what I know, the guys who wrote the book don't want that done (we all need to make a living somehow). I will respect their wishes, and allow anyone interested to buy the book.
The past couple of weeks I made sure to tone down my practices, so that I could try this new one, since you aren't supposed to mix kundalini and kunlun. So I stopped sitting cross legged, and meditating for a while...and I have felt quite grounded.
I did the kunlun level 1 practice just a couple of hours ago and it is effective. I assumed the posture, put on a cd that I like (to measure the time, and also because it's boring to sit there for an hour) ((by the way, the cd was the Jayhawks - Rainy Day Music...I highly recommend it)), then I waited for like 10 minutes. Pretty soon, my left leg started to get a little bounce in it. I made sure not to influence it, and just let it bounce. It started bouncing up and down intensely. Then after a few minutes the right leg began to bounce...and both were bouncing like crazy. Very fast! I just sat there, letting the legs bounce and remaning in the posture. Then after I don't know how long, maybe 15 minutes of bouncing, they seemed to almost abruptly stop, and at that time energy came up through the legs and into my perineum, then surged through the rest of the body. It felt somewhat invigorating, but I didn't really notice any mental changes immediately.
The legs started up again, and I felt inner heat in my right middle finger, and after another approximate 15 minutes, the legs stopped and the same energy thing occurred...but this time it seemed to shift the consciousness slightly, so that it was a very low level of samadhi. After that, I did the grounding exercise as recommended in the book, and here I am!
So, I am new to this practice but it seems nice already. I'll keep going at it, and maybe write up some updates if it gets more interesting. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 10:52:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
The past couple of weeks I made sure to tone down my practices, so that I could try this new one, since you aren't supposed to mix kundalini and kunlun. So I stopped sitting cross legged, and meditating for a while...and I have felt quite grounded.
I don't know anything about kunlun but would like to know:
- what is the definition of kundalini here
- what does it mean to mix kundalini with kunlun
- why it is not advised to mix kundalini and kunlun
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Feb 01 2008 11:55:40 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 11:50:40 PM
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Hey Albert,
quote:
what is the definition of kundalini here
Practices which are known to awaken the kundalini. For example: siddhasana.
quote:
what does it mean to mix kundalini with kunlun
To do kundalini yoga practices, like siddhasana or sambhavi mudra, and also do the kunlun practices.
quote:
why it is not advised to mix kundalini and kunlun
Kundalini practices mess with the internal alchemy of the kunlun practice. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 01:21:21 AM
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I've spent a good amount of time looking into this, thought I've not yet practiced kunlun. After reading through an immense amount of discussion (mostly on the taobums site), reading through Max's stuff and watching his videos, my take on him (which is not really all that different from the consensus of both supporters and detractors) is:
1. yeah, Max's rap is really really silly. Strewn with the worst sort of pseudo-science and ignorant b.s. ("I tried kundalini yoga, but it takes 30 years to awaken your kundalini...a year for each vertebra"). Lots to ignore.
2. he's nonetheless reportedly sincere
3. the first level of kunlun (the grounding one...which is what people are excited about) is one extraordinarily simple and easy practice, and everything but that practice is probably best ignored.
4. People are being surprisingly respectful in not revealing it online.
5. my interest stems from the fact that this is apparently the king of all grounding practices, which is something I'm very interested in. It's likely a lot better than the grounding practice I coughed up here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3296
6. It results in a lot of what sounds like kriya/kundalini effects, but everyone insists it has nothing to do with kundalini.
7. Whatever it is, it almost certainly is incompatible with AYP. Max says it's not kundalini and must not be mixed with kundalini practice (i.e. no AYP). And if he's wrong, and it is about kundalini, it'd be a dangerous aggregate with the energy cultivation of AYP (i.e. no AYP).
The most level-headed treatment is here (though the action itself is not revealed...you have to order the book for that):
http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altao...irFields.htm
and
http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/kunlun.htm
Oh, and re: the video where hand movements and "energy bursts" freak people out and throw them across the room, it's a cheap trick, just like the kung fu one inch punch. A mentalist named Derren Brown has done all that stuff on BBC. One example: http://tinyurl.com/2bs9ru |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 02 2008 01:41:04 AM |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 03:31:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
3. the first level of kunlun (the grounding one...which is what people are excited about) is one extraordinarily simple and easy practice, and everything but that practice is probably best ignored.
4. People are being surprisingly respectful in not revealing it online.
5. my interest stems from the fact that this is apparently the king of all grounding practices, which is something I'm very interested in. It's likely a lot better than the grounding practice I coughed up here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3296
Do you think it is OK from a copyright point of view to post here the kunlun grounding exercise and if it is OK, does someone here could post this info ?
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
6. It results in a lot of what sounds like kriya/kundalini effects, but everyone insists it has nothing to do with kundalini.
7. Whatever it is, it almost certainly is incompatible with AYP. Max says it's not kundalini and must not be mixed with kundalini practice (i.e. no AYP). And if he's wrong, and it is about kundalini, it'd be a dangerous aggregate with the energy cultivation of AYP (i.e. no AYP).
Oup, I'm lost (sorry I'm not english native speaking).
What do you mean, kundalini is not compatible with AYP ?
Albert |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 11:33:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Do you think it is OK from a copyright point of view to post here the kunlun grounding exercise and if it is OK, does someone here could post this info ?
No, I don't think it would be ok. Max has specifically asked people not to do this. The book is reasonably priced, and so far everyone has honored the request.
quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
What do you mean, kundalini is not compatible with AYP ?
No, kunlun is not compatible with AYP. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 11:57:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
No, kunlun is not compatible with AYP.
Please could you explain with more details why it is not compatible with AYP ?
What other systems to your knowledge are not compatible with AYP and what are the reasons ?
How about shamanism ?
Albert
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 12:12:53 PM
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Jim,
quote:
1. yeah, Max's rap is really really silly. Strewn with the worst sort of pseudo-science and ignorant b.s. ("I tried kundalini yoga, but it takes 30 years to awaken your kundalini...a year for each vertebra"). Lots to ignore.
Exactly. The guy who has been helping Max spread Kunlun around I think has a lot to do with this, and has said himself that they were trying to attract people by doing that sort of thing. In fact, that note about the kundalini taking a year for each vertera was his words, not Max's. While luring people in by using false information makes sense in a weird way, it also detracts from their honesty and makes kunlun look like a stupid practice which wouldn't work.
quote:
2. he's nonetheless reportedly sincere
I personally have no idea about Max. Hopefully I'll have time to attend a seminar and have a personal session sometime in the next few months.
quote:
3. the first level of kunlun (the grounding one...which is what people are excited about) is one extraordinarily simple and easy practice, and everything but that practice is probably best ignored.
You're right. The first level isn't the grounding one, though. That's the third level. The first opens up all of the body's energy channels in a harmonious way.
quote:
4. People are being surprisingly respectful in not revealing it online.
Yes, that suprises me as well. Kind of nice to see some respect for a change. So I figured I'd just follow suit.
Goodness is spreading!
quote:
5. my interest stems from the fact that this is apparently the king of all grounding practices, which is something I'm very interested in. It's likely a lot better than the grounding practice I coughed up here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3296
Yeah I became interested in kunlun mostly after reading your posts about grounding, Jim. I'm not sure if it is a very grounding practice just yet, though. The things I do like about it (at least the first level) is:
- It involves energy passing through the legs, instead of blocking that by sitting cross legged.
- It uses the hands in a smart way, instead of just putting them in any mudra, which can be somewhat disastrous.
- This position seems to balance the energies in the body completely, at the same time as building them and opening all of the channels.
quote:
6. It results in a lot of what sounds like kriya/kundalini effects, but everyone insists it has nothing to do with kundalini.
I think it does have something to do with kundalini...it's just that most people don't understand what kundalini is. In my very limited experience with THIS practice, the kunlun energy is an entirely different thing...but when the kunlun energy does its thing, the kundalini is naturally awakened. So this practice doesn't directly stimulate the awakening of the kundalini.
The movements are NOT caused by kundalini in this practice...they're caused by the kunlun energy.
quote:
7. Whatever it is, it almost certainly is incompatible with AYP. Max says it's not kundalini and must not be mixed with kundalini practice (i.e. no AYP). And if he's wrong, and it is about kundalini, it'd be a dangerous aggregate with the energy cultivation of AYP (i.e. no AYP).
Yep I agree totally that AYP should not be mixed with it.
quote:
The most level-headed treatment is here (though the action itself is not revealed...you have to order the book for that):
http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altao...irFields.htm
and
http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/kunlun.htm
Yep that was a nice essay on the benefits.
quote:
Oh, and re: the video where hand movements and "energy bursts" freak people out and throw them across the room, it's a cheap trick, just like the kung fu one inch punch. A mentalist named Derren Brown has done all that stuff on BBC. One example: http://tinyurl.com/2bs9ru
While I know that some of these things can be done using tricks, I'm going to wait until the seminar to see about it. Whether they're just tricks or not, though, means little to me. What means a lot to me is that this seems to be a great practice. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 1:45:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
quote:
3. the first level of kunlun (the grounding one...which is what people are excited about) is one extraordinarily simple and easy practice, and everything but that practice is probably best ignored.
You're right. The first level isn't the grounding one, though. That's the third level. The first opens up all of the body's energy channels in a harmonious way.
But fwiw the page you and I both liked ( http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/kunlun.htm ) insists that #1 is the grounding one, notwithstanding how Max outlines it.
quote:
quote:
Oh, and re: the video where hand movements and "energy bursts" freak people out and throw them across the room, it's a cheap trick, just like the kung fu one inch punch. A mentalist named Derren Brown has done all that stuff on BBC. One example: http://tinyurl.com/2bs9ru
While I know that some of these things can be done using tricks, I'm going to wait until the seminar to see about it. Whether they're just tricks or not, though, means little to me. What means a lot to me is that this seems to be a great practice.
Don't trust your eyes to see any better through trickery in person than they can via video. I don't know how Derren Brown does what he does, and I have no doubt that he could fool people in person - all the people in the dojo he was in in the video I linked to had obvious incentive to catch any trickery (because what he was doing was devaluing the feats of their teacher), but they didn't. It's not a "magic" trick, it's a mind trick, fwiw, that much I know. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 09 2008 11:35:12 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 1:49:55 PM
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Also, Scott, I'd love, eventually, a report from you on how this has helped you with grounding (not just subjectively "feeling grounded", but specific results regarding pre-existing symptoms). Also, if you tried my throat dilation, I'd love to know how that helped (or didn't). I realize you're in progress on this, so it can certainly wait until you've tested it out a bit.
I already take it for granted that "interesting experiences" stem from kun lun, but that's not what I'm personally interested in. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 3:43:50 PM
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selfonlypath, I'm trying to be concise to minimize language problems. AYP raises the energy. If you do other energy raising at the same time, then you could raise too much energy. AYP stresses "self-pacing"...being careful to manage progress.
The author of the kun lun book says not to combine with kundalini practices. AYP is a kundalini practice.
I hope that helps. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 11:36:49 PM
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Jim,
I see your point that AYP built-in self-pacing requires to not practice other kundalini systems.
My question was more why kunlun system recommends to not combine with other kundalini systems because I bet Max does not know about AYP.
I know persons who combine different kundalini systems and it works fine.
The only problem I heard of is when combining kundalini practice with a dual system because it creates a conflict between dual energies and non dual energies. A dual energy system tries to control energy work so it will be smacked by kundalini system (non dual energy) which requires total surrender and cannot be stopped in its due course to dissolve all blockages preventing self-realisation.
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Feb 03 2008 12:57:52 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 01:35:59 AM
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Hi,
Kunlun is a form of therapy like this:
quote:
"Vibrating your body means to hold your body in a position of tension that sets up involuntary physical vibrations in the body. This will increase energy flow and release blocks. These exercises are well known in core and bioenergetic therapy.
Stand with your feet parallel and shoulder width apart. After you complete the aura charging exercises given above, stand and again simply breathe out when you go down and in when you go up. Bend your knees as much as you can; let your legs begin to feel tired. If you keep doing this long enough, your legs will begin to physically vibrate in an involuntary way. If they do not, start a vibration by quickly bouncing up and down on your heels. Allow the vibrations to work up into the upper part of your legs and your pelvis. With practice, these vibrations will spread over your whole body. This is a very good way to create a strong energy flow throughout your body. Once you get the feel of it, you can devise exercises to cause any part of your body to vibrate in order to increase the energy flow through that part. In this case, one usually needs the pelvis to vibrate in order to enhance the earthly energies flowing through the first and second chakras. Later, when you are in a healing situation, you can slowly roll your pelvis back and forth (while in a sitting position), then add a little short, fast vibration to the rolling motion. This should help the pelvis vibrate. You will feel the increased energy flow throughout your whole body. "
From "Hands Of Light" - Barbara Ann Brennan
In my analysis of kunlun and Pillars of Bliss, the technique starts with a chi or cosmic energy gathering session, then you practice bioenergetic therapy which increases energy flow and releases blocks, and then you close by storing the extra chi to your tan tien. There are no warnings of harmful effects in "Hands Of Light". There are actually many books I've read that claim that a good way to clear yourself is through shaking, violent movements, screaming, panting etc. I don't see how increasing your energy flow is detrimental to someone with their kundalini active other than, if your kundalini is already flowing, you don't really need to increase your energy flow. But what do I know?
TI |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 03:15:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Yeah I became interested in kunlun mostly after reading your posts about grounding, Jim. I'm not sure if it is a very grounding practice just yet, though. The things I do like about it (at least the first level) is:
- It involves energy passing through the legs, instead of blocking that by sitting cross legged.
Hey Scott,
I'm with you on this aspect because there seem to be many issues upon grounding or connecting to Earth via root chakra versus via feet. I would tend to trust more a feet / leg chakras route rather than muladahra chakra route so I'm open to any techniques in that regard for my own grounding practice. Here is an interesting article about this:
http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/hb/hhb-13.shtml
I could be wrong but the sitting cross legged is more when we specifically want to dissolve winds into the central channel but this should be attempted only when a good full body grounding is attained, including feet and legs.
Albert |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 10:26:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
My question was more why kunlun system recommends to not combine with other kundalini systems because I bet Max does not know about AYP.
AYP is special as a method to achieve something, but the thing that's achieved is not unique to AYP. It's just kundalini...and silence. So Max doesn't have to know AYP, he just has to know kundalini. And I am not sure that he does. But Scott, who practices AYP, and who is trying Kunlun, has confirmed twice in this discussion that he thinks kunlun does not combine well with kundalini practices.
quote:
I know persons who combine different kundalini systems and it works fine.
Kunlun is not a kundalini practice. max insists on this and Scott confirms it.
As to what kunlun actually IS...I haven't heard anyone give a good explanation. Spiritual energy is spiritual energy, but there are different manifestations and vibrational levels. I personally am not very interested in mentally understanding it all. Better to let yoga make me Be it rather than to have knowledge of it. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 10:33:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
. There are actually many books I've read that claim that a good way to clear yourself is through shaking, violent movements, screaming, panting etc.
The kriya are purifying, no doubt about it. That's why asanas became used for yoga sadhana...the rishis "robbed" from what spontaneous innate intelligence showed them via the kriya that occurred, in order to try to "goose" the process. And yes to shaking (a kissing cousin to kriya), too. I've read a lot of teachers encouraging it.
However, they are talking about kriya and shaking from kundalini. And I don't have the foggiest notion what kunlun is. I'm not particularly curious, either. My interest in all this is that I hear this is a grounding process, and I'm in the midst of a long quest for grounding.
quote:
I don't see how increasing your energy flow is detrimental to someone with their kundalini active other than, if your kundalini is already flowing, you don't really need to increase your energy flow. But what do I know?
Kundalini awakening isn't binary. It can flow more or it can flow for longer, and either of those increases can mean overdoing symptoms. Which leads me to an observation I've not seen made....a little kundalini goes a long way. After my first awakening, I was sure my kundalini was flowing 24/7. Then, after a full year, it reawoke and I realized it had been dormant all that time. Maybe a few spritzes here and there for seasoning, but that's it. All yoga openings are like that. We are supremely sensitive to all sorts of openings, because of their unfamiliarity and because of the resultant ecstacy. We are nowhere near as sensitive to closing-back-up, because we've lived closed for so much of our lives that closure feels thoroughly unremarkable. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 03 2008 10:35:02 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2008 : 11:54:40 PM
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I've been practicing for the recommended time for the past few days, and some more things have happened. Level 1 does seem to be great for a grounding practice, as well as an all around purifier. It's like siddhasana in the sense that it causes energy to radiate through the whole body and release blockages...but it grounds at the same time (and also your legs don't go numb)! It's also faster to achieve its effects.
Some results I've seen in just this small bit of practice:
Cool sensations mixing with the heat, and less blood trapped in head
Much better circulation
Increased appetite (being actually hungry before meals)
Getting more spontaneous erections
More of an ability to flow with whatever happens
Better energy...it makes me feel the need to go for a walk
A strange thing: I was just staying at my friend's house for a few days, and he has a young dog named Hank. This little pup is hyper, but when I was doing kunlun, he laid down and slept. It was strange, because if you saw me you'd see that my legs were shaking pretty violently...I thought Hank would jump all over me. But he just laid there on the couch. Then when I was done he sat on the blanket where my feet just were and got super hyper...so we started playing tug of war with a rope..but that's another story...
Moral of THIS story: yes Jim, this is good for grounding.  |
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scottfitzgerald
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2008 : 10:11:05 AM
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At first glance, what you are saying as the effects and feelings seem very similar to the "streaming" excercise in Margo Anand's book The Art of Sexual Ecstasy."
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2008 : 8:23:43 PM
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Thanks, Scott, I need all of that...except the spontaneous erections. Man, I'm tempted. I'm currently doing 8 mins of meditation per day and am still right at the brink of overdoing. I continue to make progress in resolving the grounding slooowly via my throat move and via chinese herbs, but (as I warned in my thread about grounding and front channel), every bit of front opening brings yet more energy up from mulha, so it's zero sum. Kundalini rash is not going away, kidneys are dried out, blood pressure is up, appetite is down, can't lose my 15 extra pounds...
Scott, what's your deal with kundalini? Did you have the big fireworks, all-the-way-up thing, with the feeling that every cell was in orgasm? If so, how frequently did the experience repeat? And how long did you lay off practices before you took up Kunlun? My kundalini is awake pretty much 24/7, so it'll require a longer layoff than i'd like if I'm going to tamp it back down in preparation. I'd really just rather stick to yoga, let the cosmic barber do his job. But he keeps missing this spot, and it's been years now...and the blood pressure is worrisome... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 08 2008 8:25:21 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2008 : 9:25:15 PM
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Hey Jim,
I don't know what to say regarding your own practice. We all need to choose whatever we think is best for us. MAYBE just maybe the throat dilation is adding a bit too much? Or maybe you just need to hold out and see this rough period through? Maybe even the type of meditation you're doing isn't good for you? I have no clue...
I don't know how to exactly describe kundalini experiences anymore. For me, the negative symptoms went way down when I transitioned to a different style of meditation (awareness watching awareness). Then I penetrated to the super-conscious state easily. I hadn't been consistent in meditation before trying kunlun...I would practice when I wanted and I was doing fine with kundalini...I took about a week off before kunlun. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2008 : 11:49:12 PM
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Scott, thanks, I wasn't trying to lay my issues in your lap, don't worry! :)
It sounds like you "know" kundalini, rather than have just experienced a few spurts here and there. Since Max says it doesn't combine well with kundalini, and most of the taobums guys don't know from kundalini, I was wondering if you'd serve as a datapoint on that (and perhaps the only one). Sounds like you do.
Please keep reporting back!! |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 10:17:05 AM
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Finally received the Pillars of Bliss book (where the practice is actually set forth). Man, it absolutely sounds like kundalini to me...with a heavy crown-opening element, which accounts for some of the change-of-flow-direction
I'll steer clear. |
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