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Steve
277 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 04 2010 : 1:00:18 PM
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Hi TI, quote:
All of a sudden I was looking at this very colorful orange flame. The flame was moving about and dancing around. It was delicious! I loved it. When I realized that I was watching the flame dance I wondered what it could be. I wondered if it was burning my karma. I also wondered if it was RAM. I continued watching the flame and at one point it kind of faded out but then it came back as I re-focused on the heart space. Thinking too much or reacting caused the flame to become obscured. I wonder if I was looking at the manipura chakra's flame from the heart space.
With sufficient purification and surrender, as the heart opens and deepens there is a flame of love and light that gets ignited from deep within the heart. It is not the same as kundalini or just feeling the flow of love coming from the heart. It is much deeper. When it becomes active and functioning, it's purifying effect is pure to the core and can greatly assist the sadhana.
Silence, Love and Light,
Steve |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 04 2010 : 1:42:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hi TI, quote:
All of a sudden I was looking at this very colorful orange flame. The flame was moving about and dancing around. It was delicious! I loved it. When I realized that I was watching the flame dance I wondered what it could be. I wondered if it was burning my karma. I also wondered if it was RAM. I continued watching the flame and at one point it kind of faded out but then it came back as I re-focused on the heart space. Thinking too much or reacting caused the flame to become obscured. I wonder if I was looking at the manipura chakra's flame from the heart space.
With sufficient purification and surrender, as the heart opens and deepens there is a flame of love and light that gets ignited from deep within the heart. It is not the same as kundalini or just feeling the flow of love coming from the heart. It is much deeper. When it becomes active and functioning, it's purifying effect is pure to the core and can greatly assist the sadhana.
Silence, Love and Light,
Steve
Hi Steve, :)
It looks like an orange flame, not one solid flame like a yellow candle flame but like it has a bunch of wispy flames in it. Also, the width is quite wide compared to the width of a candle flame..
Is this documented anywhere? Do you have any links/sources that I could read about it?
Thanks.
:)
TI |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 04:39:29 AM
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Hi TI,
On an experiential level, I received direct introduction to it through the Master Yoga portion of the Padmacahaya curriculum. Prior to that I had never experienced its direct workings or come across specific documentation regarding it elsewhere. However, the discussion you were having with Christi in the Wayne Mirs topic correlates with my experience of its nature and workings.
quote:
The nature of this Truth and Light is that of a spiritual nuclear fire - something more than the initial Light that comes from above. It is a Fiery Light that has the power to transform every level of being-consciousness, even the physical or material level of consciousness. [Tao Malachi]
The above quote from Tao Malachi is the best description I have seen of it. Like the awakening and working of the kundalini, there comes a point in the sadhana when there is a sufficient opening of the heart and level of surrender that allows the grace of True Source to ignite the flame of love and light within the heart and begin its workings in a more direct and sustained manner. It has a different purpose and function than the kundalini and in ways its purifying effect goes much deeper as it emanates from and touches the core of who we are. When ignited it works in conjunction with the kundalini supporting the sadhana and service to all. Any interference, reacting or controlling can shut it off. It works through non-interference, complete surrender and trust, and with an unconditional love offering of our entire being to Source to be used in service for the benefit of all beings everywhere. It is a most precious gift available to all.
quote:
quote:
The statement of the reception of the Supernal Light through the agency of Divine Grace is significant, for we prepare the vessel of reception, namely ourselves, through spiritual practice and the spiritual life. Likewise, receiving the influx of the Supernal Light we integrate it through spiritual practice and the spiritual life and are empowered to extend that Light in the world. Yet, it is not the spiritual practice and life which generates or imparts the True Light, but it is Grace that receives and imparts it - for the Light is a movement of Grace or the Holy Spirit (Mother Spirit). Thus, in essence, the Way of Christ is a "Yoga of Grace" (Union of Grace). [Tao Malachi]
Hi TI,
Thanks for posting that quote from Tau Malachi, I didn't know that he had a website.
I think that line sums up a lot about the Christ consciousness stage of enlightenment. After self-realization, which is a shift in identification from the unreal to the real, and is essentially a passive process, there is a dynamic process where the body becomes a vessel and channel for the divine light, force and power. Eventually the body becomes nothing but this divine light, force and power as you will know if you have met Jesus Christ. quote:
The nature of this Truth and Light is that of a spiritual nuclear fire - something more than the initial Light that comes from above. It is a Fiery Light that has the power to transform every level of being-consciousness, even the physical or material level of consciousness. [Tao Malachi]
The light that Tao Malachi refers to as "the initial light that comes from above", is a spiritual light which comes down through the crown chakra into the heart. It is a very intense and bright white light which is sometimes referred to as the Paramatma light. The Fiery Light that Tao Malachi refers to as being like a nuclear force, is a divine light which emanates from God. Normally we are shielded from this light by divine grace, until we have prepared ourself sufficiently to receive the force of its full power and glory. In my experience this light also radiates from (shines through) the body and spiritual heart of a Christed being and through the Christed one, can more easily reach the soul of a person lost in darkness.
Christi
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Jan 05 2010 12:11:22 PM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 08:13:04 AM
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It reminded me of this chapter:
http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat12.htm
Search "flame"
You are certainly blessed to see such beautiful things TI. There must be a reason behind this. Perhaps you have worked on the third eye a lot in your past lives. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 5:24:06 PM
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Hi Steve, :)
Thank you for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Like the awakening and working of the kundalini, there comes a point in the sadhana when there is a sufficient opening of the heart and level of surrender that allows the grace of True Source to ignite the flame of love and light within the heart and begin its workings in a more direct and sustained manner. It has a different purpose and function than the kundalini and in ways its purifying effect goes much deeper as it emanates from and touches the core of who we are. When ignited it works in conjunction with the kundalini supporting the sadhana and service to all. Any interference, reacting or controlling can shut it off. It works through non-interference, complete surrender and trust, and with an unconditional love offering of our entire being to Source to be used in service for the benefit of all beings everywhere. It is a most precious gift available to all.
I have never heard of that before although I do recall seeing pictures of Jesus with a flaming heart..
This flame in my heart is quite an interesting phenomenon. During this morning's spinal breathing, I felt the flames rise up from my heart, into my throat and neck and finally into my head, all around the scalp and inside. It was a lovely warm heat and I just let it do it's thing. What a joy it was..
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 5:43:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
It reminded me of this chapter:
http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat12.htm
Search "flame"
You are certainly blessed to see such beautiful things TI. There must be a reason behind this. Perhaps you have worked on the third eye a lot in your past lives.
Hi Manigma,
Thanks for the compliment. :) Bless you too!
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2010 : 11:41:46 PM
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Hi :)
I received the book "Sacred Science" by Norman Paulsen yesterday.
I spent 4 hours reading it. I cried through most of the start of the book. This is the first book that explains the different lights, Christ, astral experiences, and many other things that I've experienced. What he has written truly resonates with me. :)
- When I first opened the book, it opened to a picture that looked very similar to what I had seen many years ago when the Holy Ghost was paying a congregation a visit; misty white light descending upon people's heads. This picture was also similar to what I had seen at my last group meditation!
- I loved this part:
quote:
Is Jesus of Nazareth still here on earth today in another dimension, just beyond the frequency of our five senses? Yes. His promised return to help free other travelers has bound him to be nearby, watching. Yes, watching and waiting. He is just beyond the frequency of our vision with physical eyes, but visible to those who have entered other dimensions of consciousness and have full use of the sixth sense, Christ consciousness.
So yes, Christi, one definition of "Christ consciousness" is literally "the ability to see Christ". :)
- Norman Paulsen says that the third eye reflects the visions/images of the chakra that the person is currently in. Perhaps I was more centered in my sacral chakra when I was seeing all those sensual/sexy feminine images? It reflects like a mirror. So, in whichever chakra you are stuck or dominant, that is what you are going to see.
- He says that that very bright light above the crown (the crown is just an opening) is Christ consciousness or the body of Christ.
- He says that by pushing up through the crown (once-soft spot at the top of the head) one can invite or request Christ's consciousness to come down into the body. In fact, his description of Meditation is very similar to AYP spinal breathing except it is more complex; one breathes up and down the spine, one pulses the root three times but does not persist in the root lock, one pauses after breathing the "Breath of Life" up the spine to the third eye, and then pulses the root three times to open the door to Christ's consciousness which reveals the light above the head. Then one visualizes the light (Christ) coming down to the third eye to sit on the throne. After that, the exhale is performed back down to the root with the visualization of the light also coming down. During the ascent and descent of the breath, there are 8 points/chakras that are in the spine that are activated. The extra chakra is directly behind the upper mouth near the medulla.
- He says that you have to activate the Christ consciousness first because if the feminine energy (shakti at the root/kundalini) arouses and cannot find her mate, she will become very displeased and will rise up hissing like a snake.
- He says that the feminine principle rises up and Christ's male energy comes down to meet at the bridal chamber in the heart producing the immaculate conception. A little Christ is born in your heart and if nourished properly, will eventually rise up to take his seat on the throne of God in the third eye.
- He points out the "Eightfold Path" which consists of proper Meditation, Conduct, Study, Speech, Association, Nourishment, Work and Recreation.
- He points out the "Twelve Virtues" which are Loyalty, Patience, Honesty, Perseverence, Compassion, Continence, Equanimity, Courage, Humility, Temperance, Charity and Faith.
- The last picture in the book is a picture of Norman Paulsen standing in the desert next to Paramahansa Yogananda during their last retreat.
- Norman claims that Paramahansa Yogananda appeared to him after he passed on, like Jesus did.
I finished the whole book, all 150 pages..
Then I went to bed.
As soon as I layed down I noticed that whole inside of my body was no longer there. There was brilliant light everywhere. The light/star/Christ-light over the top of my head was brilliant. The whole sushumna was lit up. Well, I couldn't see the sushumna anymore or any distinct 'me' features at all. There was no more body. There was only vast bright colored light everywhere in this infinite space. I marvelled. It was like being a galaxy. Many galaxies. I did not exist, there was only space and an awesome expanse of multi-varied light.
After about an hour or so of watching this spectacle on the inside of me, moving my consciousness inward then outward and back and forth, I realized that I wasn't getting any sleep. I got up and had a drink of water (ok, and a cigarette). Then I went back to bed.
I started to get concerned about falling asleep. I could not. I tried hard. I had the overwhelming feeling that my body was going to fall inwards into this huge space of lights. What a strange sensation!
There was a definate split between the outer world and the inner universe. There was no place to run or find comfort.
I resolved that I should focus on the outer room and focus on sensations like rubbing my hands on the mattress, making noise while breathing, anything I could think of that was of the normal world in order to regain that comfortable thick body/sleep mind feeling. After some twenty minutes of doing this, of dragging my consciousness back into the physical, I must have finally fallen asleep.
Today, I'm trying to fathom what has taken place. I'm very glad to have read Norman Paulsen's "Sacred Science" and will be re-reading it over again a few times.
I'm so happy to know that the light above the head, which I re-discovered recently by seeking the source of the intuitive mantra at the top of the head, that bright white liquid plasma light that is not the crown/pineal, has a name and a use. It is called the light of Christ. Big smiles here!
It also makes me happy that someone else has written about seeing Jesus and the light. Now I know what to tell people: I'm not crazy, I just have my sixth sense active!
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2010 : 11:20:39 PM
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Hi :)
This is an update.
I learned the routine for 'practice' in the Sacred Science book by Norman Paulsen. The first part of the practice is like the AYP spinal breathing except for a few differences:
- you transfer the feeling of breathing to the spine
- you visualize seven chakras (including the one at the top of the neck/medulla area) along the route. The intention is to draw the energies from each chakra into and up the spine all the way to ajna.
- you do not hold the root lock. You simply tense it three times to gather your energy and then you tense three times again at the top of the cycle, to draw down the light from above the head into the ajna.
- When you hit the ajna, you knock three times to open the door to the Christ light over the top of the head and then you draw the light down into the ajna and down through all the rest of the chakras all the way down to the bottom of the spine.
It is a challenging practice and it took me about a week to get it to the point where I had everything sort of working properly. I do enjoy a challenge! I also enjoy a practice where I can put to use the light that I discovered over the top of my head.
During the week of practicing and tuning this form of spinal breathing for the meditation session I was performing mantra repetition or sensing the inner body or various other techniques after the spinal breathing. I guess I'm a creature of habit. At the end of that week I had developed enough competency in the NP (Norman Paulsen) 'spinal breathing' routine that I thought I'd add the NP meditation portion of the practice too.
The meditation portion consists of kechari, sambhavi and then moving your attention back closer to the back of the head nearer to the pineal gland and then sending energy from it to the pituitary gland. Then, you ask "Dear Heavenly Mother and Father, please reveal yourself to me". You are supposed to sit in silence and keep focusing on the third eye area, waiting for a response.
Like I was saying, I discovered this light above my head after 'intuiting' the mantra 'off the top of my head' and by seeking the source of the mantra. Since discovering that light I've had many strange experiences including the discovery that I could push my attention up and down the spine from the inside of the sushumna. So I felt that it was interesting that I had discovered a technique that specifically puts that light to use.
Since the episodes in the light, another part inside my head has been growing. It is not third eye sight, but perhaps it might be although the scenes or viewing field is not at the brow, but more to the back of the head, below the light. It is like a little cartoon world or spot of colorful lights has opened up. It is the same kind of vision as the consciousness that gets pushed up and down the spine from the inside when I switch to internal vision. It's like having a fourth eye.
This fourth eye sits inside the head, more towards the back, below the light which is located over the top of the head. The light at the top has been making the fourth eye brighter and more pronounced. Further, it is opening up more and more almost like you are in a different plane.
Anyway, during my attempt at NP's meditation, I discovered that I could keep my attention in the fourth eye. So I did. I then proceeded to ask "Dear Heavenly Mother and Father please reveal yourselves to me". I kept at it, determined and I waited.
After a few minutes of sitting from the perspective of that fourth eye I saw two cherubs (small naked babies with wings) flying about and being playful. The background looked like clouds of white/pink/blue. The cherubs flew around and played, somewhat mischievously; at one point one of the cherubs was pulling at the other's wings.. being naughty!
Next I saw a scene of the bottom half of a female naked torso that was about to give birth. I examined this splendorous scene for a while, contemplating the origin of the human form and then another scene appeared. This scene was of the middle section of a female body, adorned in golden chains, jewels and red satin. It was so beautiful too. :)
Then, I saw a face that was male, was wearing a golden crown, had a beard and moustache and looked kind of like King Neptune. I wondered if this was the Heavenly Father.. After I saw a lovely female face that had a transparent veil covering part of her face. Both of these faces were not very clear, like they were made of white mist/cloud and I could sense that they were being manifest into a lower realm to make them visible (which was a higher realm for me). Then they were gone.
After the meditation, after contemplating what I had just witnessed, I started to realize that I was overloaded big time. The whole top of my head was gone. Like someone had taken a giant spoon and scooped out the top of my head and brain... a spacious vacuum like a funnel shaped hole, about five inches at the top narrowing down to the center of the head.
When I tried to focus on the top of my skull, all I could feel was this big hole opening up into space. I also felt numb and stupefied. Like someone had clubbed me and left me dazed.
This feeling, the numbness, the space, no more top half of the head persisted for over seven days!!! It's a wonder I even got through the work week! Only today, nine days later, do I feel like I have a top half of the head and that I'm coming out of zombie land. Is this what is meant by premature crown opening?
Needless to say, during those nine days I quit all regular practices and instead just sat quietly sensing the inner body or doing nothing at all. I did that for practice all week, hoping that it would help me recover. This has been by far the absolute worst overload I've ever experienced. A part of me deep down inside kept telling me not to worry, that my brain was being re-wired to awaken the silent parts.
A few days ago I did a 'watch your thoughts' meditation and the light at the top of my head was so bright and wonderful. It seems to be getting purer and whiter. It is such a lovely light. Some of my thoughts appear directly under the light and they are quite visible.
Gradually, I started testing the light again. I kind of developed a fear of overload and I didn't know exactly what caused it. The light is still there. I've also found that now I can stay in the fourth eye vision during spinal breathing. I can visualize the seven chakras (including the light over the top of the head) and the path up and down the spine from this internal perspective. It is as though it all exists in another plane. I haven't done a complete session yet from the 'fourth eye' perspective because it is hard to stay in it. It requires a lot effort and non-reaction to a successful cycle.
Also, during my recent meditation sessions, I will all of a sudden find myself in another dimension. For example, once I found myself sitting in a room with other people in it, with wooden chairs and a wooden floor. It reminded me of the 1800's. This was/is different from the visions because I felt like I was actually there, not just watching a scene on a screen.
The other thing that amazes me is this. I've discovered that during the NP spinal breathing, I'm experiencing ecstatic conductivity as the light comes down my spine! This has been quite a revelation. Before, the ecstatic conductivity had only occurred on the in-breath, as the attention/prana went up the spine. I do not ever recall feeling ecstatic conductivity as the attention went down the spine. So now I'm thinking that there must be a network of pleasure sensing nerves in that area of the spine and it doesn't matter which direction the prana/lifeforce comes from, it still activates it. This has implications which would perhaps challenge the conventional theory of kundalini rising.. or perhaps indicates that top-down risings are possible..
Oh, I also finished Norman Paulsen's book called "Christ Consciousness". This book is filled with fantastic stories. Did you know that Norman Paulsen's father was blind, but he could still 'see' (as well as transport himself to other locations)? His father supposedly taught Houdini how to see through a blindfold. Norman has written about flying saucers, adventures with Yogananda, healings, miracles, beings from other planets, history of the world and more. It's taking my brain a while to digest it all. My initial reaction, one which I am still wrestling with, is that Norman wasn't quite all there. I mean, at one point, Norman describes how the light came down through his head, projected out through his ajna and dissolved the Devil. This is by far the most surreal fantastic book I've ever read that isn't supposed to be fiction.. I'm wondering if NP's version of spinal breathing is the true Kriya Yoga technique as taught by Yogananda..
All the best,
Good luck with your practices..
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2010 : 12:59:29 AM
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Hi,
What I have learned from my very recent experiences is this:
1) There is a light/star above my head. I don't know what to call it, I kind of like the term Christ's Light but it's only a term. Words are only words.
2) During Norman Paulsen's style of spinal breathing, which I have been practicing now for over two weeks, I can draw that light down to the third eye then the medulla and right down my spine from inside the sushumna. It feels ecstatic. I like his method because you do not perform any lower body locks at all (except the 'upper' sambhavi and kechari). Instead, you simple tense the root three times to gather your energies to send them up the spine and then it's back to relaxtion mode.. I find it helps me go deeper into relaxation.. I end up in such a deep meditative state that I just love it.
3) After doing this form of spinal breathing for a few weeks now, I've really noticed that the brahman cave at the center of my head has really opened up, the other cave behind the brow is much more pronounced and there is a concentrated 'eye' at the back of my head. My visions have become an adventure in 'other realities'. I've also noticed that during meditation time is slowing down, that is, thoughts occur in slow motion and the simple visions and sensory data are breaking apart into slices!
4) I've also drawn the light into a sore tooth and the tooth hasn't bothered me since. That's what the SRF lessons teach: to draw the light and direct it.
I'm now doing 'sitting in silence' meditation. I focus the gaze through the eyes from the medulla point of view towards the third eye and I am 'impassionately aware of everything', but with a stern gaze and super-relaxation (sensing the inner body). My main intention is to take everything in and not be affected by it..
During tonight's meditation, I saw a muddy river with a brilliant radiant light glistening on the waves. I saw myself in a previous life, with black hair and a beard. I heard myself singing a song of love to God with my hands joined in the symbol of prayer pointing towards the blue sky. I knew the song that I was singing, it struck at the base of my heart and resonated so deeply!!! A part of me started singing along with it until I realized what I was doing. I was taken aback and was totally amazed. I went back 'in' and sang along with a few more songs. "Kurubana..." The language was foreign to me but it sounded so familiar. It was a wonderful experience and when I decided to finally pull myself back, it was 1 hour and 8 minutes later. Beats TV any day!
I now believe that drawing the light down from the star above the head into the spine is definately expanding my chakras and is very beneficial.
So if anyone believes that chakras, the light and the bindu may not have anything to do with "legitimate practice" I do hope that you'll agree that there are many roads to the same place.
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2010 : 11:38:59 PM
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Hi,
This is an update.
For the past few days I had been performing this routine:
1) Prayers
2) Breath of Fire (bhastrika) 1 min.
3) NP Spinal Breathing ~10 min.
4) Meditation: Focus on the brahman chamber in the back center of the head and watch the thoughts.
During those meditations I passed through the dream stage (as the dream visions appear I ignore them and keep focusing on the center of the head, at the other multi-colored lights.) Various other physical sensations, like the body melting into waves or pulses, feeling like you are in a different plane of existence, popping in and out of astral dreams/visions etc occured.
A few days ago I saw someone else had posted their experiences with the Eckhart Tolle "sensing the inner body" practice. They also stated that Maitreya advocated a similar practice (never heard of him before..) I have also been re-reading the book "The Discourse Summaries" by S.N. Goenka, in which the practice is to equanimously focus your attention on each and every part of the body until a sensation is felt. I also recall reading in the Pali that Buddha mentions that mindfulness of the body is a great practice, one which not only speeds one way to enlightenment but helps to understand the mysteries that lie within.
So,,.. to make a long story short, I went back to 'sensing the inner body' today. I had quit it as a regular practice because I wasn't sleeping much at night and I kind of got sick of feeling like I was on the verge of orgasm for hours on end.
Today's practice was this:
1) Prayers
2) Breath of Fire (1 min to clear the nostrils and balance ida and pingala)
3) NP Spinal Breathing ~12 minutes
4) 30 minutes "Sensing the inner body" with kechari but no sambhavi. (Kechari seems to stop the pain and pressure I get in the upper neck and lower skull if I don't do it). Again, it was such a pleasureable experience that it was very hard to pull out and I went over my allocated time span.
The usual symptoms during meditation prevailed. There seems to be a set pattern. After 6 minutes or so, I was aware of the heat body or warm envelope that encompasses the body. After about 14 minutes, my breath becomes very shallow and pauses at the end of the exhales. As the pauses grow, the third eye lights appear which I ignore. I also make an effort not to focus on the light above my head.
I monitor my breath; if I am thinking too much my breathing speeds up. My object is to just let go and relax enough that the mind stops and hopefully the breathing will stop too. To become the watcher, not the doer. At the bottom of each breath I find myself in a large dark space where I can see other beings (immobile dark clay statues?) and fine filaments of light.
After the meditation was over I felt so wonderful! I felt like a cloud of bliss and very fine tingles, like I had turned into an etheric being that was overlaying my body. The body felt separate. The stillness and bliss were very pronounced. There was also a distinct sexual energy mixing into the etheric waves. I just wanted to sit there and enjoy, so I did! - until I finally decided to make something to eat.
Again, a few hours later, now the perineum is pulsing and the feeling is way too intense. I like to describe the sensation as "if it gets any more intense I will be crawling the walls in a short time". I wonder how I can transform that into something more palateable, perhaps with the heart? Hmmm..
Now, there is no doubt in my mind that 'sensing the inner body' is a very powerful practice and that most of it's symptoms and effects are consistently reproduceable. The other symptom which I have yet to verify is this: Insomnia - watching the body sleep throughout the night as lights dance in your head. I wonder if this will happen again. It should be interesting.. This might be a hard path to follow..
:)
TI
Note: the practices described in this post are not standard AYP practices. |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Feb 02 2010 01:03:56 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2010 : 11:37:22 PM
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Hi,
Here is an update.
About a week ago I decided to check out TM because I never had the feeling that I was performing mantra repetition correctly and I had read a few posts on this forum that the AYP Deep Meditation was the same as TM (Transcendental Meditation).
After a few hours of 'research' I found this website which contains the instructions for TM and some of the 'checking routine'.
link: http://www.trancenet.net/secrets/ch.../steps.shtml
What impressed me the most about the instructions for TM was this:
quote:
In this meditation, we do not concentrate, we do not try to think the mantra clearly. Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation. It is just a faint idea. We don't try to make a rhythm of the mantra. We don't try to control thoughts. We do not wish th at thoughts should not come. If a thought comes, we do not try to push it out. We don't feel sorry about it. When a thought comes, the mind is completely absorbed in the thought.
and again, the bolded text in this one:
quote:
"When we become aware that we are not thinking the mantra, then we quietly come back to the mantra. Very easily we think the mantra and if at any moment we feel that we are forgetting it, we should not try to persist in repeating it. Only very easily we start and take it as it comes and do not hold the mantra if it tends to slip away.
The main idea that I get from these instructions is that you do not forcefully repeat the mantra or even repeat the mantra. You do not manipulate the mantra in any way. You do not stretch the mantra out and focus on the syllables (like I did to help focus on it). You do not visualize the letters in the mantra. You simply 'think' the mantra and try to focus on the characteristics of the mantra ( the sound, the feeling, it's essence etc) until the mantra dissolves away or a thought comes up and distracts you. However, sometimes a thought comes up and distracts you but the mantra is still sounding/echoing/reverberating so at that time I just switch attention back to the mantra.
Anyway, I have been trying this form of mantra repetition on and off for about a week. I'm comparing the effects.
The first time I tried the TM style meditation, the "I AM" mantra was clearly visible in my Brahmin cave (the space in the center of the head in back of the pineal gland). I could see the letters "I AM" as shining letters. So I would pulse the "I AM" and look at the letters, listen to the sound and focus on it until I got distracted or a thought or vision became more pronounced. Then I would return to the mantra. If the mantra disappeared I would then pulse the "I AM" back into existence. By "pulse" I mean I would intend the mantra or locate it again in the Brahmin cave. Most of the time, I would just move my attention back to the correct loction in the cave and the mantra would still be there.
That first time I tried that style of mantra repetition, I passed through the dream layers of consciousness and found myself in a space of totally white light and there was something that I felt was 'me' in it. It only lasted for a few seconds as I was kind of surprised and it startled me. But it was a lovely very quiet space!
The second time I tried that style of mantra repetition (on the following day) I again found myself in a space of white light. The white light is very bright and it feels like someone has pulled a shower curtain of white light all the way around you. But this time, the 'me' was more pronounced. I believe I was looking at my 'I' thought. It felt like 'me'. I resembled a small clump of greyish white light like a cloud. The cloud felt like 'me' and the way I know is because it felt like me, or my ego, of the part of me I love.
Then it occured to me that if I was watching 'me', who was it that was watching me? I tried to focus on that but lost it. The amazement of finding my 'I' thought was too disruptive/exciting to contain. Part of me just got too excited to continue and I popped out..
Just for experimentation's sake, the following few days I returned to the mechanical, repetitive method of repeating the mantra. It left me hot in the face and I admit that I didn't get that 'deep'. After a few old style meditation sessions I started to realize a tremendous desire to re-enter the white light space with the "I" thought in it.
So, today, I went back to the non-repetitive, non-mechanical 'create the mantra, wait until it dissolves and re-create or locate it again' method (how I interpret the TM instructions).
During my afternoon meditation, when I first started and turned my eyes and attention upwards, the light at the top of my head was brilliant, bright white and shining in full splendour. Surprise! Surprise! No effort or focusing, too hard to miss, couldn't ignore it and it wasn't going away. I dropped my attention and my gaze downwards and then brought them up again and the white light was still there. It was so easy. I was very surprised. I decided to go with it.
I then proceeded with the 'I AM' ala TM style meditation, but I could not see the letters of the mantra because there was way too much light going on. I continued on with the meditation, saw the dream consciousness state with it's visions pass by. All I could see was the colorful parts of the dream visions because the light was drowning the rest out. I ended up in this plane of bright light, moving pastel colors and lots and lots of wonderful white light pouring down on me.
I have no idea what happened or what caused it. I suspect that I'm getting deeper into my superconsciousness by releasing the mantra and following it to it's disintegration. I suspect that by mechanically repeating the mantra during the previous years of mantra repetition and by attempting to sustain focus and awarenss on the mantra, I had converted a meditation which was supposed to be about letting go, into an excercise of concentration. Although eventually, when I really gave an effort and sustained focusing on the 'I' I did reach a state of samadhi, but those occurences were few and far between. Now I'm convinced that there are many ways to perform mantra repetition, and some methods are not only more profitable than others, but that incorrect practice could definately hinder one's progress.
To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.
:)
TI |
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2010 : 10:10:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.
Hi TI:
It is because for the most part you are not meditating, which is a very simple and consistent procedure. Instead, you are totally into observing the "scenery," analyzing it, endlessly modifying the practice to play in it, reporting on it, etc. That is not meditation. If you just let go of all that and do the simple procedure, no matter what, you will experience inner silence in no time. And, in time, you will become inner silence 24/7. That is worth a million times all the scenery we could ever have. It's not about the scenery. When you get that, you will be meditating like a champ. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Have you read the AYP Deep Meditation Book? I mean really read it? If you want abiding inner silence (the peace that surpasses all understanding), that will tell you how. The rest is up to you.
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2010 : 10:43:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.
Hi TI:
It is because for the most part you are not meditating, which is a very simple and consistent procedure. Instead, you are totally into observing the "scenery," analyzing it, endlessly modifying the practice to play in it, reporting on it, etc. That is not meditation. If you just let go of all that and do the simple procedure, no matter what, you will experience inner silence in no time. And, in time, you will become inner silence 24/7. That is worth a million times all the scenery we could ever have. It's not about the scenery. When you get that, you will be meditating like a champ.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Have you read the AYP Deep Meditation Book? I mean really read it? If you want abiding inner silence (the peace that surpasses all understanding), that will tell you how. The rest is up to you.
Hi Yogani :)
Thank you for your response. Yes, I have read the AYP Deep Meditation Book a few times but I will re-read it once more.
Are you saying that there are no lights that can be seen during inner silence and that if you see lights you are not in inner silence? Is inner silence black or formless?
Thanks.
:)
TI
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2010 : 11:54:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Are you saying that there are no lights that can be seen during inner silence and that if you see lights you are not in inner silence? Is inner silence black or formless?
Hi TI:
Not saying that at all. Experiences can be anything. Anything at all. Today they are one thing. Tomorrow they will be something else. It does not matter what they are. I am not saying that experiences are to be shunned or condemned. I am saying that the content of experiences is not relevant during the simple procedure of meditation.
So why do you keep asking about content? The fixation on content in meditation is an obstacle. If you can regard that need for content to be like any other thought and easily favor the mantra whenever the "sight-seer" appears in a session, you will have it. As long as you are actively looking for content to evaluate, favoring that, you will not be meditating.
You can be a tourist, or you can be a meditator. But you can't be both at the same time. You do have a choice, you know. Nothing is etched in stone. 
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 04:57:03 AM
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hi Yogani and TI, i used to have a lot of beautiful spiritual scenery happening during and outside of practices and used to contemplate a lot on them and read about them bcz you will always find smthg written about such scenery somewhere out there.
but somewhere along the road of Self enquiry i found that they just bring in more mental baggage even though it's subtle so i dropped the desire for having these experiences and somehow they stopped being so frequent as before and now there's just inner silence and ecstasy present and some overloading symptoms here and there (and the honey like light are always present to some subtle extent) but things are for the best at general after all the heavy self pacing i've been doing.
anyways Yogani and TI, not all yogies seem to agree on this scenery thing.
i've been reading play of consciousness by Swami Muktananada lately and that guy seems to differ from you a lot concerning engaging that scenery stuff.
cz whereas you tell us not to step in the golden chariot when it comes, Muktananda stepped in and went to tandraloka and kept on visiting there frequently and that helped him or enriched his spiritual path somehow and he kept on having an intense desire for spiritual experiences and visions... and i haven't finished the book yet but the guy seems to have made it all the way (even though i have some doubt about that taking in consideration his ill behavior with some of his disciples.)
but in general if you'd ask me to choose between scenery and everlasting still peace; the answer is simple i'd choose peace of mind with folded eyes.
namaste |
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 10:25:35 AM
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Hi Ananda and TI:
We can have all the scenery, but should not forget that it is the cultivation of inner silence that produces the scenery, not the other way around. When we are meditating, that is one thing. When we are riding off to Tandraloka, that is something else. We cannot do both at the same time. That is the point.
That's why when we are meditating and that golden chariot rolls up, we will be wise to favor the mantra. The chariot will also be there later, especially if we have been effective in our meditation practice over time. Abiding inner silence is the doorway to everything, not the least of which is the end of suffering.
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 11:13:49 AM
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hi Yogani, i honestly couldn't care less about any loka or scenery; i am pro AYP's simple approach away from risky pitfalls... was just pointing out that there are paths who differ than the one here in their approach and they do get there in the end... but then again in all these paths it's always steady practices first enjoy the scenery later...
L&L |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 5:04:38 PM
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Seems like a pretty straight forward point Yogani is making. When you are meditating favour the mantra.
When outside of sitting practices enjoy the scenery all you want.
If you follow this script, you get more inner silence and hence scenery to enjoy outside of practices. |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 6:29:45 PM
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taken from siddha yoga glossary (muktananda):
BLUE PEARL "a brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, that appears in meditation; it is the subtle abode of the inner Self."
NADA "inner sounds that may be heard during advanced stages of meditation; nada may take the form of sounds such as bells, the blowing of a conch, and thunder."
taken from bhagavan nityananda (muktanandas guru): "He refers to this as Prana Vayu and emphatically states that this is the only means to directing your awareness to become absorbed in Bindu Nada (point of sound experienced in the Heart space in the head). Once your mind dissolves in this Bindu Nada, Mukti is attained. The goal of meditation, he tells us, is to keep our awareness in this Bindu Nada, even while going about our daily, mundane activities. This, he states is true Dhyan and Dharana. This alone is Samadhi. It is the means to live in the world without being of the world and it can only be taught by a Siddha Guru."
why would you favor a word/mantra over cosmic sound/OM and light that created this very universe? and there is a difference between ocassional scenery and something that is always there when you reach a certain stage ie: bindu or nada. If bindu(light) or nada is not appearing it is because you have not achieved inner silence because nada is that sound in silence.
"I am OM, the sacred word of the vedas, sound in silence, heroism in men"-bhagavad gita, Lord Krishna |
Edited by - michaelangelo7 on Feb 17 2010 6:49:54 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 7:12:13 PM
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Hi Michael,
Yogani once said that nadi kriya (meditating on the divine sound) had been deliberately left out of AYP because it was not always available as a meditation object. I imagine the same goes for meditating on divine lights. |
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michaelangelo7
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 10:09:38 PM
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| I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 12:25:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Are you saying that there are no lights that can be seen during inner silence and that if you see lights you are not in inner silence? Is inner silence black or formless?
Hi TI:
Not saying that at all. Experiences can be anything. Anything at all. Today they are one thing. Tomorrow they will be something else. It does not matter what they are. I am not saying that experiences are to be shunned or condemned. I am saying that the content of experiences is not relevant during the simple procedure of meditation.
So why do you keep asking about content? The fixation on content in meditation is an obstacle. If you can regard that need for content to be like any other thought and easily favor the mantra whenever the "sight-seer" appears in a session, you will have it. As long as you are actively looking for content to evaluate, favoring that, you will not be meditating.
You can be a tourist, or you can be a meditator. But you can't be both at the same time. You do have a choice, you know. Nothing is etched in stone.
The guru is in you.
Hi Yogani, :)
Thank you for your response.
Well, there are many things I'd like to say.
First off, I have re-read the Deep Meditation book again (last night).
Many times in that book you refer to 'thinking the mantra' and yet you say that value of the mantra is in the sound of the mantra.
Just to be clear, there is a difference to me between thinking the mantra and silently subvocalizing the mantra. When I think the mantra I see the words; I see the letters "I AM". I do not visualize them, they just appear in my head. When I am concentrating like that I also see thoughts. In order to think the mantra I have to raise my consciousness to be separate from the subvocalization process. It is not hard, I just disengage the connection to the breath or abdomen and focus more on the light realm by increasing the frequency and location of the manifestation of the mantra. It is in the realm of pure thought. It is at a higher frequency level than the sound spectrum. However, when I do that, there is very little audible vibration from the mantra as it becomes very subtle because it is made of light at that point. Should I be silently subvocalizing the mantra because it is the coarser vibrations from the sound of the mantra that does the work? I'm not exactly clear on what 'thinking the mantra' means.
The other thing I am still not clear about is the rapidity of the repetition of the mantra. What is a normal pattern? What should one start out with? Is it 'easily think the mantra, pause 1/2 a second and then repeat'? Do you end up with a steady stream of mantra repetitions? Or do you think the mantra once and then focus on the sound, the resonance as it lives and then dies? And then, once it is gone, you 'think the mantra' once again? Is it the repetitive pattern that you are referring to when you say 'each time we "lose" the mantra, we have gone through a natrual shift in our attention. page 15' or is it a single "I AM"? By now you must think I'm incredibly thick but I can conceive of thinking the mantra once, taking my time and waiting until it dies and then repeating it once again. This time span could be 5 seconds later.. So perhaps you would be thinking "I AM" 12 times per minute? What should a beginner start out at?
And my last mantra question is this: Do you just think "I AM" or do you stretch it out into variations of "AAAAAYYYYAAAAAAAMMMMM" lasting a second or longer (like 10 seconds) etc.?
I can appreciate what you are saying, that the practice is what purifies and causes occurences of inner silence. As you practice, the inner silence grows. I have experienced inner silence twice during mantra repetition when I first started out (using the subvocalization process of mantra repetition), and yes, I did experience the bliss and quiet that you described in the "Deep Meditation" book without lights or visions. It didn't last very long and it was far and few in between. But what happenend is that after that, each time I would hit that silence, I would see lights or visions or be transformed into some other reality (large empty space, other dimension or plane etc). Actually, the silence and peace was very similar to the experiences that I've had when I've visited heaven. And perhaps it is just my way of thinking but, after hitting inner silence and seeing that it was full of light, it only seemed natural that the next step is to do something with the light. This led me into researching the nimittas and jhanas, the clear white light and the christ consciousness light above the head. ( a while ago).
This is the reason I keep asking about whether or not inner silence is dark or light, and nobody seems to want to answer me.
If someone were to say "the light is not part of the formless state" and inner silence is formless, has no light in it, then at least I would know. I do notice, however, that even in your "Deep Meditation" book you say (page 80) "Discover the light within and you know my light".
The other fascinating thing about your Deep Meditation teaching is this. Conventionally, the term "meditation" refers to a concentrative state. This is what I grew up learning: Meditation is focusing your attention on something until you become one with the object of contemplation. You find this "steady concentrative method of meditation" everywhere, in most teachings. I think it is the norm, not the exception. Then, there is TM and Deep Meditation. This methodology seems to be the opposite, that is, there is no intense concentration, instead, there is "easily repeating the mantra, letting go, floating away until 'bingo' you are there in the utter depths of consciousness", your mind has stopped and the Witness appears.
Certainly this is a far easier method than directed concentrative meditational techniques which require effort, discipline and persistence (if you can get the practice correct). And, if inner silence is the absolute bottom or center of the depths of consciousness (or no mind) and you can get there by performing just Deep Meditation, well then certainly it is one of the most powerful techniques available. If it is possible to get 'there', bypassing all the planes, lights, beings, angels and other phenomenon through Deep Meditation, then this is perhaps the fastest easiest route. I can see where getting hung up on "scenery" would definately be a hinderence. It would also be hard to convince people that they could skip all the stages, all the jhanas and astral/higher planes/ beings/realizations etc.
Just to be clear, I do not seek out scenery during meditation. I only want to discover the truth of what life is and what I am. I do not start my meditations thinking "Ok this time I'm going to visit a certain plane or meet a specific being". I do not try to create the light. The light is always there (above my head). Sometimes it is brighter than other times. My goal during meditation is to become silent, truly silent, to stop the mind, to split out awareness from consciousness, to behold the truth of existence, to become enlightened.
So if Deep Meditation is the most powerful meditation for becoming "THAT" just so long as you don't get stuck on the scenery, I'm all for it. I do long for that inner silence/bliss/peace. I will give it another try. I have gone back to mantra repetition. I hope I am performing it correctly.
Just a few more questions. I'm so used to putting my tongue on the palatte/epiglotis (have been for 2 1/2 years) that when I don't do that, I get a headache from mantra repetition. Do you think I should try to drop that practice during meditation? I know you've said that sambhavi splits the mind during meditation and I have dropped that one (did today). I'm willing to start over to see what happens.
Also, do you think I should silently subvocalize the mantra rather than watching the thought appear in the cave in the back center of my head?
Thank you so much.
:)
TI
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 02:41:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.
Hi TI
Maybe its related or not releated with you, the following story came to my mind:
...Ramakrishna would sit with his eyes closed and he would soon be feeling very blissful. Totapuri asked him what was happening? He said he was seeing the mother goddess. Totapuri would not accept this as defeat. He said that if Ramakrishna was seeing the goddess Kali, what was there in it to be so overjoyed about? "All this is imagination -- this mother and this goddess -- all this is your own projection."
Ramakrishna said, "It might be so, but it is immensely blissful." Totapuri said that if he wanted to remain satisfied with this bliss he would never know the ultimate bliss. Ramakrishna then asked him what he should do. Totapuri suggested that there was a method: "When you begin to see Kali, immediately take a sword and cut her into two pieces." Ramakrishna asked from where he would get a sword...
You can read further here: http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat15.htm
Ramakrishna came to know the real SAMADHI only in the last days of his life, through a mystic, Totapuri. Totapuri helped him to get out of this third state and to enter the fourth.
All the chanting of mantras is nothing but an effort to create suspension of awareness.
In Sanskrit we have two words for sleep; one is NIDRA. NIDRA means ordinary sleep, natural sleep; every night you go into it. The other word is TANDRA; TANDRA means deliberately created sleep. It can be translated as 'hypnosis'. Hypnosis also means sleep, but a different quality is attached to hypnosis: it is deliberate, it is created, it is not natural. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 05:20:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7
I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so
Hi Michael,
Why? Why not simply continue practice with the mantra. If someone were to be changing their meditation object every time inner lights or sounds appear, they could end up in the state of confusion that TI has got himself into, no?
Christi |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 09:23:15 AM
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quote:
why would you favor a word/mantra over cosmic sound/OM and light that created this very universe? and there is a difference between ocassional scenery and something that is always there when you reach a certain stage ie: bindu or nada. If bindu(light) or nada is not appearing it is because you have not achieved inner silence because nada is that sound in silence.
"I am OM, the sacred word of the vedas, sound in silence, heroism in men"-bhagavad gita, Lord Krishna
Hi michaelangelo7,
Your quote here answers that question indirectly. The mantra itself at its source is as sacred as any other object in creation. The mantra is an emanation of God. |
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