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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 6:50:27 PM
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Hi 
This is where I am at today.
I've learned that my testicles and my brow are connected, and that when one relaxes, so does the other. By relaxing both, my arms, front of the body, testicles, legs and especially the lower abdomen and really release the breath and just let go, I become a cloud of vibrations. My breathing relaxes to the point where it performs very short light inhalations almost like I wasn't breathing at all. If I keep this state going, I become very hot and feel like I'm about to orgasm and float away.
I have a stream of ecstatic conductivity rising up from my genital region for most of the day now. It is lasting longer and longer after practices. It feels like I am on the verge of orgasm or something similar.
If I pretend to be falling asleep, relax my brow and testicles and press back into my brow like I'm going to fall asleep, I see tons of visions, not still pictures, but visions in motion like I'm watching other planes or tv channels. I can hit this state in under 4 seconds now.
I received the DhyanYogi - Anandi Ma Shaktipat kit yesterday. I've read it all twice and listened to the Mantrochat CD. Maybe that is why my head and hands are really hot today? Haven't done the shaktipat yet. I'm preparing. Going to take a while.
I also tried their meditation instead of the 'AYAM' meditation. Their meditation consists of mentally chanting OM on the in-breath and then counting on the out-breath. So you go OM-in 1-out OM-in 2-out etc. What I found intriguing about this style of meditation is that the OM uses the right brain (singing) and the counting uses the left brain (sequential-logic). Today (to re-visit and old topic of mine), I have no ringing in my left ear again. Very nice. So now I'm wondering if the ringing in the left ear is related to the left brain's lack of something to do while meditating. We'll see.
TI
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 7:47:53 PM
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Hi TI
quote:
I am very curious about the visions. It seems like sometimes during pranayama and meditation too, when the breath is linked to the mantra it produces very clear visions of things. I look forward to learning about the "thögal visions". Recently, I've come to think of the visions as some strange phenomenon maybe linked to dreaming that occurs when the brain reaches a certain level of inactivity like when we fall asleep, and as such have no spiritual development significance. I think that this comes more from the frustration of not knowing what the visions are and what significance they might have.
There are different kind of visions. The lowest are visions like dreams. After there are clarity visions, more precise and clear. And then thögal visions.
It may be difficult to make the difference between clarity visions and thogal visions because they can be rather similar. The point is that you cannot influence thogal visions, but you can influence the other ones. Another point is that thogal visions appear clearly in the sky. And you see what is called "tigles". They are not the same as tantric tigles (which are the drops). The tigles of dzogchen are disks of light. First they have 1 color and are very small, and later they have 5 colors (the colors of the 5 elements) and become bigger. There are many different kind of thogal visions. They come from the heart, go up by the kati-channels (or cristal channels), and are projected in front of you by the eyes. But they are not seen by the visual consciousness, they are clear by themselves (seen by your own rigpa).
In fact I would be very interested to know what you see in the sky, because the development of these visions indicate the level of your integration of rigpa.
quote:
Have you hit clear light?
I think I've hit CL of dream a few times. Depending on the chakra the winds dissolve in, there are different clear lights. CL of the waking state (navel), CL of dream (throat), CL of deep sleep (heart).
quote:
I know this is rather presumptuous of me but, there is a state of awareness where everything appears transparent, yet there is form and color. If I had to explain where it is I would say it is 'in between' trying too hard and 'not trying hard enough'. It is like looking at a hologram with object/people in it and it seems infinite. Do you think that might be example clear light?
It means you may have experienced it juste before. A friend described the same thing after having experimented CL of the waking state. But you have to consider (until you've reached buddhahood...) that all CL are devoid of phenomena. As the winds dissolve, the perceptions disappear. You cannot see, hear, etc... the deeper it is, the more you seem like a dead. And when you reach the meaning CL, then you're really dead, but you come back. If you re-read TCLOB, you will find clear explanations about CL. You have to see 7 signs to be sure this is it. And then you have to go deeper and deeper because the signs are not enough.
Anyway, what you describe is a state of clarity. It is said for example that in the 2nd vision of thogal, you can see through walls (if seems you've already seen through a restaurant table), and in the 3rd vision, you can walk through walls, because you have purified the elements winds.
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It is very hard to know what is happening or what I am doing when there is nobody to point out what things are supposed to look like. I try so many things and have so many different experiences that I'm like a kid in a candy store.
First you will have to search for the 7 signs, or you will never know where you are.
quote:
Lately, I've been seeing this little blue dot appear and then disappear just as quickly. It moves very fast and does not stay long. I've noticed it now during my meditations for the last three days. It will appear maybe 2 or three times and then I don't see it again until the next meditation.
I know you think it may be the blue pearl, but did you see the 3 lights before ? If I remember well, the blue pearl appeared to Muktananda after having seen the 3 lights. I think these 3 lights are the 3 subtle signs before CL, so the blue pearl came out of the CL.
Maybe you are there, but as there are many levels of example CL, the clarity of the signs will tell you where you are.
And here I have a question : are you able to reach conscious deep sleep ?
quote:
I have to quit typing this. For some reason my hands and head are becoming very hot.
That's normal, Kundalini becomes more active when you speak about dharma 
quote:
I was going to ask you, kadak, how are you making out with your practices? I seem to recall reading that you were going to try the AYP practices for a while because you were having fun trying to find the exact loactions of the chakras. How is that going?
In fact it was something I wanted to tell you. The chakras are at the center of the body,if you look well. What are in the spine are the trigger points. But, eh, your blue heart drop, it is at the center, no ? So the central channel is at the center, but in fact it is not really physical, it is where God is... I've located all the chakras at the center, but yoga teachers tell to search them in the back because the trigger points are easier to find. But once you've located the chakras, it's more effective to concentrate on them. But you cannot concentrate physically, that's the difference with the trigger points. You can concentrate physically on the trigger points, but to concentrate directly on the chakra, you have to concentrate on God-in-the-navel, or God-in-the-heart etc... Each chakra is an expression of God. And the kundalini is the activity of the winds and drops in the central channel.
Anyway I didn't stick to the AYP practices because I have already much to do. Now my main practice is the purification of the different winds with the mantra and other techniques, and I recently understood what they say in the teachings : that the phenomenal world is our winds. For example the wall you see before you is a part of your earth-wind. If you purify it, you can walk through it. It is as simple as that. Only problem : purifying the winds is very difficult.
regards |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2008 : 11:56:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
I'm the person who mentioned CL of Bliss on this forum last year.
Now, I think you would love Tantric Grounds and Paths : http://kadampa.org/en/books/tantric...ds-and-paths
because it contains information you don't seem to have, about the purification of the 10 winds, the meditation on the heart drop, the vajra-recitation etc... You will find answers to many of your questions in it.
Hi Kadak,
Have you read the other book "Guide to Dakini Land" written by Kelsang Gyatso and if yes, do you think it provides more or less info than "Tantric Grounds and Paths" you just mentionned ?
In Shakti, Albert |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2008 : 06:25:48 AM
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Hi
no, I didn't read it. In fact there are other books in this collection which I should read.
regards |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2008 : 6:16:16 PM
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Hi kadak
quote:
Originally posted by kadak
In fact I would be very interested to know what you see in the sky, because the development of these visions indicate the level of your integration of rigpa.
Ok. What I see in the sky?
When I tried the "OM Namah Shivaya" meditation I was extending my breathing long enough to repeat the mantra once on the in-breath and once on the out-breath (no pauses in between). After about 3 minutes of doing this, a clump of white radiant light appeared and moved into focus. It grew until I could see a full round sun, with what looks like sea urchin tentacles of rays emanating forth. The sun stayed for the rest of the 1/2 hour meditation.
Another time I saw what looked to be the earth. There were bright blue areas and white patches that resembled clouds. I could see the whole circle and just space (or sky) around it. I watched it for over 10 minutes, in awe. It was very clear.
Another time a pale yellow disk appeared. There were no features on the inside of it. It did not look rounded like the sun and the earth, just a flat pale yellow disk.
Another time I saw what really looked like the moon. It was pale white, looked rounded (I could see the whole ball and the darkness around it). The moon had features on the surface that resembled very slight blueish craters or valleys. It was beautiful to see.
The bright white light in my head is still there today but it is not rounded, it looks like a clump again. It did come closer and got bigger and more rounded during this morning's meditation but it went back to being a clump later on. This light is very bright white.
quote:
It is said for example that in the 2nd vision of thogal, you can see through walls (if seems you've already seen through a restaurant table),
Yes, the restaurant table. And the mail box too.. Hmmm.
quote:
and in the 3rd vision, you can walk through walls, because you have purified the elements winds.
I'm starting to believe stuff like that, especially after seeing that reality looks like a loosely bound soup that you could swim through.
quote:
And here I have a question : are you able to reach conscious deep sleep ?
You know, funny you asked. I had a strange experience last night when I went to bed. I was lying in bed and some visions started coming so I watched one for a while. I was awake, just sort of being entertained with my eyes closed. Then, all of a sudden, this loud bell rang out. It sounded more like someone hit one of those large crystal bowls. However, right after the bell sounded, something went pop and I felt like I dropped down a few feet. The whole scene changed into a darker scene that looked like the inside of a grungy garage and there was a person in it pushing a motocross bike in it. I was not asleep. It was like the bell sound had changed the channel on the tv.
But Yes, I believe I reach conscious deep sleep when I open the hole in my third eye through relaxation, kechari, suck into my third eye and pretend to fall asleep and just let go. Doing this used to cause a lot of pain to the back of the top of the neck where it connects to the skull, but the pain isn't so bad anymore. It is also extremely disorienting and you lose touch with your body and surroundings. When I just do this, the lights/suns/planets etc appear quickly..
quote:
For example the wall you see before you is a part of your earth-wind. If you purify it, you can walk through it. It is as simple as that. Only problem : purifying the winds is very difficult.
Kadak, how do you purify the earth-wind?
TI |
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2008 : 7:45:27 PM
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from the Tantric Grounds and Paths web site (http://kadampa.org/en/books/tantric...ds-and-paths):
"For those who are attracted to profound Dharma, Buddha taught the third vehicle, the Vajrayana. The Vajrayana, or Secret Mantra Vehicle, is sometimes called the ‘Attachment Vehicle’ because, instead of trying to abandon attachment immediately, practitioners of this vehicle use attachment as an aid to generating spontaneous great bliss, with which they then meditate on emptiness."
Emptiness (inner silence) + bliss? Sounds like AYP to me, except Yogani works on both at the same time. Yogani's balanced approach makes sense to me.
Thanks for all your posts, TI and kadak. It's going to take me a while to digest this thread. It's so wonderful to read that others have gone through this before me!
namaste,
Joe |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2008 : 11:53:53 PM
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Hi Everyone,
I found this on the internet last night (when I was trying to find the "Light On Meditation" book by Dhyanyogi on Google). It explains the lights, planets and suns as phenomenon that appear when you are semi-conscious and between two planes. It also explains why the lights are quick to appear when I am in full lotus (stationary asana). It also says that slowing the breath down is very important. I figure that by elongating the breath by fitting it into the mantra, I produced the semi-conscious state that is described here. Now I feel better 
Here is the link:
http://www.indiadivine.org/hinduism...-Meditation/
Here is the quote:
quote:
Visions of Lights in Meditation
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By Swami Sivananda
Various kinds of lights manifest during meditation owing to concentration. In the beginning, a bright, white light, the size of a pin's point will appear in the forehead in Trikuti which corresponds tentatively to the Ajna Chakra of the astral body. When the eyes are closed, you will notice different colored lights such as white, yellow, red, smoky, blue, green, mixed color, flashes like lightning, like fire, burning charcoal, fire-flies, the moon, the sun and stars.
These lights appear in the mental space, Chidakasha. These are all Tanmatric lights. Each Tanmatra has its own specific color. Prithvi (earth) Tanmatra has a yellow light; Apas (water) Tanmatra has a white light; Agni (fire) Tanmatra has a red light; Vayu (air) Tanmatra has a smoky light; and Akasha (ether) Tanmatra has a blue light. Yellow and white lights are very commonly seen. Red and blue lights are rarely noticeable. Frequently there is a combination of white and yellow lights. In the beginning, small balls of white light float about before your eyes. When you first observe this, be assured that the mind is be coming more steady and that you are progressing in concentration.
After some months the size of the light will increase and you will see a full blaze of white light, bigger than the sun. In the beginning these lights are not steady. They come and disappear immediately. They flash out from above the forehead and from the sides. They cause peculiar sensations of extreme joy and happiness and there is an intense desire for a vision of these lights. When you have steady and systematic practice for two or three hours of meditation at a stretch, these lights appear more frequently and remain steadily for a long time. The vision of the lights is a great encouragement in Sadhana. It impels you to stick steadily to meditation. It gives you strong faith in superphysical matters. The appearance of the light denotes that you are transcending the physical consciousness. You are in a semiconscious state when the light appears. You are between the two planes. You must not shake the body when these lights manifest. You must be perfectly steady in the Asana. You must breathe very, very slowly.
One whose food is moderate, whose anger has been controlled, who has given up all love for society, who has subdued his passions, who has overcome all pairs of opposites (Dvandvas) and who has given up his egoism, gets a vision of a triangular light during meditation.
Sometimes during meditation you will see a brilliant dazzling light. You will find it difficult to gaze at this light. You will be compelled to withdraw your mental vision of this light. This dazzling light is the light emanating from the Sushumna.
You will see forms in the lights - either the lustrous forms of demigods (Devatas) or physical forms. You will se your Ishta Devata or chosen deity in handsome dress with four hands and weapons. Siddhas, Rishis and other Devatas appear before you to encourage you. You will find a huge collection of Devatas and celestial ladies (Apsaras) with various musical instruments in their hands. You will also see beautiful flower gardens, fine palatial buildings, rivers, mountains, golden temples, sceneries so lovely and picturesque as cannot be adequately described.
The experiences vary with different individuals. What one man experiences, may not be experienced by another man. Many erroneously believe that they have realized the self when they get these experiences, stop their Sadhana and try to move in the society to preach a new cult and religion in the name of Loka-sangraha. This is a serious blunder. This is not realization at all. These are simple encouragements from your Ishta Devata to convince you of a higher spiritual life and push you on in your steady, systematic and incessant practice of meditation with zeal and enthusiasm. You will have to ignore these things and drive them away. You must not care a bit for the vision of lights. You must fix your attention on the Lakshya, the goal, viz., Brahman. These visions appear in some persons within a few days, while in others within six or nine months. It depends upon the state of the mind and degree of concentration.
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darrylc
Australia
9 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 01:50:51 AM
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quote:
Emptiness (inner silence) + bliss? Sounds like AYP to me, except Yogani works on both at the same time. Yogani's balanced approach makes sense to me.
"Emptiness" is a huge topic in Tibetan budhism and very profound. It also goes by the term "Wisdom of emptiness" or just "Wisdom".
It refers to the fact that everything we interact with is 'empty' of inherent existence, that objects do not exist as thay appear to us. They are created by causes, conditions (ie: karma) and labeling of the mind. It takes a lot of analytical meditation to become familiar with the topic and a couple of sentences do not do it justice 
The Tibetan theory is that you merge method and wisdom as a way to reach enlightenment. The method is a "calm abiding" meditative state sort of like deep meditation(samadi) of ayp, a side effect of this state is a blissful feeling.
Although the experiences are great and it is hard not to get excited about them, they are still after all just scenary on the road  Stick to the practices and progress will be faster.
kind regards
darryl |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 07:10:54 AM
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quote:
Ok. What I see in the sky?
When I tried the "OM Namah Shivaya" meditation I was extending my breathing long enough to repeat the mantra once on the in-breath and once on the out-breath (no pauses in between). After about 3 minutes of doing this, a clump of white radiant light appeared and moved into focus. It grew until I could see a full round sun, with what looks like sea urchin tentacles of rays emanating forth. The sun stayed for the rest of the 1/2 hour meditation.
Another time I saw what looked to be the earth. There were bright blue areas and white patches that resembled clouds. I could see the whole circle and just space (or sky) around it. I watched it for over 10 minutes, in awe. It was very clear.
Another time a pale yellow disk appeared. There were no features on the inside of it. It did not look rounded like the sun and the earth, just a flat pale yellow disk.
Another time I saw what really looked like the moon. It was pale white, looked rounded (I could see the whole ball and the darkness around it). The moon had features on the surface that resembled very slight blueish craters or valleys. It was beautiful to see.
The bright white light in my head is still there today but it is not rounded, it looks like a clump again. It did come closer and got bigger and more rounded during this morning's meditation but it went back to being a clump later on. This light is very bright white.
I can't tell if all these visions have the same nature, but it seems there are thögal visions among them. Anyway, when you read the book, you will be able to have your own idea. And remember that the crucial point is that you can't influence thögal visions.
The Sivananda quote is interesting. He's apparently melting different kind of visoins (that's why the topic is difficult...) In his descriptions, some elements (like smoke or sparkles) are signs of winds dissolving in the central channel, as other (deities, gardens, palaces) seems to be thögal visions.
quote:
But Yes, I believe I reach conscious deep sleep when I open the hole in my third eye through relaxation, kechari, suck into my third eye and pretend to fall asleep and just let go. Doing this used to cause a lot of pain to the back of the top of the neck where it connects to the skull, but the pain isn't so bad anymore. It is also extremely disorienting and you lose touch with your body and surroundings. When I just do this, the lights/suns/planets etc appear quickly..
In fact there are different kind of sleeps.
1) There is conscious dream - I can do it either, there is a strange sound in the ears, some vibrations, and then, I'm out of my body, but as I'm not interested in OBE, in turns into dreams. I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
2) The realms of visions. It can be thögal visions or clarity visions. If have more clarity visions (which are the lesser ones), they happen when you concentrate on a chakra.
3) CL of deep sleep, the most interesting of course, but I'm not able to reach it. I'm losing consciousness in the process...
quote:
Kadak, how do you purify the earth-wind?
Like every other wind. I'm am using different techniques, because there are different levels of winds. For example you can practice vajra-recitation : you concentrate in the central channel, at the usual location of the wind - the problem is that I'm not sure of winds and locations, because schools don't agree with each other. So I consider : navel-red-fire / throat-air-green / heart-white-space / 2nd chakra-water-blue / 1st chakra-earth-yellow. But I may be wrong in the 3rd last chakras because nobody agrees. Anyway if I wanted to purify earth wind, I would concentrate on the root chakra, feeling a yellow light in the central channel. I would connect my mantra with the light and move the wind up in the central channel, and then down (that's explained in "Tantric grounds and paths"). The strength of the wind is said to unknot the chakras, and it is true. The process is blissful but can be painful if the wind is strong and the chakras tied. Then I would try to exhale the wind, imagining that it goes in the whole universe as the earth element, receiving blessings of all the buddhas, and then take it back in the central channel etc... You can also visualize yellow light in all your body, connected with the "home" of the wind in the central channel, and then you will purify the earth element in your body. As you see there are 2 aspects : earth wind in your body, and in the world. The 2 are connected but it is said that the elements in the body are subtle, and the "outside" elements are gross.
(I have noticed this for the body : when I feel pain, if I can determine the incriminated wind, I feel the wind in the central channel, where it is visualized as pure, then I visualize it in the painful area, and I connect both. The light has to be very bright. Anyway, it works surprisingly well. And if I can't find the wind, I try all the colors. And the strange thing is that one color works better than the others. Then I know which is the bad wind.)
This is the tantric way. But the dzogchen way is said to be 10 times faster. It is thögal practice, but I'm not good enough for it now.
(NB : you are from Canada, do you read french ? I've a text describing clarity experiences, very interesting, but it is only in french. In fact there are 2 books on the subject from this author, Charles Duits)
regards |
Edited by - kadak on Jun 26 2008 12:37:51 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 5:55:22 PM
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Hi kadak
quote:
Originally posted by kadak
In fact there are different kind of sleeps.
1) There is conscious dream - I can do it either, there is a strange sound in the ears, some vibrations, and then, I'm out of my body, but as I'm not interested in OBE, in turns into dreams. I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
2) The realms of visions. It can be thögal visions or clarity visions. If have more clarity visions (which are the lesser ones), they happen when you concentrate on a chakra.
3) CL of deep sleep, the most interesting of course, but I'm not able to reach it. I'm losing consciousness in the process...
A long time ago, I used to practice "looking for my hands in dreams" as described by Carlos Casteneda. Before you fall asleep, you focus on the intention of looking at your hands when you catch yourself dreaming. On three occasions I succeeded in becoming fully aware in my dreams. It was fantastic and lots of fun. Not only were all the colors very sparkly and bright, but I could fly as well. During one of those dreams I thought I could fly right through the earth and I tried it. When I hit the ground it jarred me out. I guess pieces of my rational mind were still attached to the stream of awareness and it was too much of a shock to hit the ground at full speed..
quote:
I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
Have you had any luck with that?
Have you tried praying or have you ever considered shaktipat?
quote:
(NB : you are from Canada, do you read french ? I've a text describing clarity experiences, very interesting, but it is only in french. In fact there are 2 books on the subject from this author, Charles Duits)
I can speak, read and write french when I have to. (or maybe not)  Mais je ne me souvient pas ce que tous let mots dits alors cet vraiment dificile de lire des livres avec des grands mots dedans.. 
Isn't Charles Duits a fantasy writer? Are any of your books in this list:
Le Pays de l’Éclairement (The Land of Illumination) (1967)
Ptah Hotep (1971)
Les Miférables (The Miferables) (1971)
La Conscience Démonique (Demonic Consciousness) (1974)
Nefer (1978)
Fruit sortant de l’Abîme (Fruit From The Abyss) (1993)
Om Shanti
Om Namah Shivaya
TI
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2008 : 7:22:49 PM
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Hi,
quote:
>I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
Have you had any luck with that?
Yes or I wouldn't mention it. I've asked for different things : "rigpa presentation" "benediction", specific transmissions about practices or "clear light of sleep". One of the best experiences was :"please show me what you're experimenting" with a tibetan lama. It was absolute bliss flowing from emptiness itself.
If you try, we can discuss then, but I wouldn't want to influence you too much.
quote:
Have you tried praying or have you ever considered shaktipat?
Prayer gives the same result (but smaller) as asking for transmission. As for Shaktipat, it is the indian name for transmission. When a guru enters your central channel, it is Shaktipat.
quote:
I can speak, read and write french when I have to. (or maybe not) Mais je ne me souvient pas ce que tous let mots dits alors cet vraiment dificile de lire des livres avec des grands mots dedans..
Isn't Charles Duits a fantasy writer?
He's more an author of classic litterature. The 2 books are :
Le Pays de l’Éclairement (The Land of Illumination) (1967)
La Conscience Démonique (Demonic Consciousness) (1974)
The text I mentionned is here, if you can read :
http://www.clarte.eu.com/textes/duits1.rtf
But maybe it could be not too difficult with the help of an automatic translator.
And maybe these paintings will interest you : http://www.clarte.eu.com/peinture.htm
BTW, did you ever try to "enter" someone else ? I found last week that I could do it, that is something with the central channel. The first time it happened, I stared at someone, and wanted really to help him, and then suddenly, I felt I was "in" him. By chance he didn't notice it. I couldn't see thoughts or things like this, but I felt much more his energetic structure. Since, I've tried with different people, sending bliss and love in them, but I'm not sure they've felt anything... Anyway, today I tried with one of my lamas, that was great, but rather quickly, I was blocked by my own veils. Similarly, I'm not able to stare at the sun. Now I will train on him. I'm sure he knows what I do, but I know he is OK, because one day he said :"Please use me as much as you can because I really want to help you". I'm sure he's beyond meaning clear light, and that he will end up in rainbow body, because he's a great practicioner.
(But my real master is Amma, my mantra comes from her. She's God and this lama is like her minister, which means that he is really good, because she usually says that human masters are useless. So I think he's no more human. Tibetans say that people beyond meaning CL are no more humans, they're like gods).
friendly |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 12:07:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
BTW, did you ever try to "enter" someone else ? I found last week that I could do it, that is something with the central channel. The first time it happened, I stared at someone, and wanted really to help him, and then suddenly, I felt I was "in" him. By chance he didn't notice it. I couldn't see thoughts or things like this, but I felt much more his energetic structure. Since, I've tried with different people, sending bliss and love in them, but I'm not sure they've felt anything... Anyway, today I tried with one of my lamas, that was great, but rather quickly, I was blocked by my own veils.
Hi kadak
In the Self Realization Fellowship lessons, it says that the way to read someone's mind is to imagine that you are them. You place your consciousness in them, you imagine that you have their face, are their height etc and you become them. You use imagination, intent, will and concentration. Then, you check out what they are thinking.
That was one of the reasons why I decided to quit the SRF. At the time I thought that one should respect the privacy of individuals and I also did not like the idea of SRF members being able to read my mind.
Since then, after realizing that we are all one big ocean, and after considering the ethics of invading others' privacy (I'm still a little unsure about the ethics) I have tried this a few times for a few seconds just out of curiosity with complete strangers while sitting in restaurants.
Unfortunately, it is hard to confirm what you are seeing. You can't just walk up to someone and ask them if they live on a ranch with horses, and how is your son's hockey school going (because that is what I saw in her head). You run the risk of them either being shocked or thinking your are crazy, and they might not confirm what you are trying to verify.
Or maybe you can. "Excuse me, but were you just thinking about the horses on your ranch? I was just sitting here and suddenly it was like I was dreaming! All of a sudden I knew that you live on a ranch with horses and that you have a dark-haired 12 yr old boy who is attending hockey camp. Is that true?" -might work..
Lately I've been trying to understand the Buddhist idea that everything is empty, that is, everything lacks inherent self existence. From a moral standpoint, this idea is staggering.
quote:
One of the best experiences was :"please show me what you're experimenting" with a tibetan lama. It was absolute bliss flowing from emptiness itself.
That is very interesting. I will have to think about that for a while. Oh oh. Just had deja vu. I don't think I should discuss this topic... I keep thinking about the guru who says that the creations of the mind are endless and for that reason one should not focus on the third eye or any thought at all but strive to become silent and empty in order to realize the true essence of existence.
Oh kadak, I know what I was going to ask you. Have you ever considered trying Kunlun to clear out all your channels and purify your winds?
TI
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Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Jun 27 2008 12:33:42 PM |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 12:11:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
BTW, did you ever try to "enter" someone else ? I found last week that I could do it, that is something with the central channel. The first time it happened, I stared at someone, and wanted really to help him, and then suddenly, I felt I was "in" him. By chance he didn't notice it. I couldn't see thoughts or things like this, but I felt much more his energetic structure. Since, I've tried with different people, sending bliss and love in them, but I'm not sure they've felt anything... Anyway, today I tried with one of my lamas, that was great, but rather quickly, I was blocked by my own veils. Similarly, I'm not able to stare at the sun. Now I will train on him. I'm sure he knows what I do, but I know he is OK, because one day he said :"Please use me as much as you can because I really want to help you". I'm sure he's beyond meaning clear light, and that he will end up in rainbow body, because he's a great practicioner.
Hey kadak,
If I may with all my respect to your wisdom posts on AYP, i've been taught by powerful tantrik-shamans under different lineages that it is not good to enter someone without his consent.
Either the one who knows this technique can set up psychic shield so in no time, it would stir up your own karma reflected and multiplied by 10.
On the other side, if the one you enter into is not consentful, then you can trap yourself inside him and not be able to come back or at least wound energetically both of you.
The applications of such techniques are awesome but believe me, the results can be drastic if not done correctly !
Amicalement, Albert |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 1:12:20 PM
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Hi
I think there is sort of a misunderstanding. I am absolutely not interested in telepathy or whatsoever.
quote:
That was one of the reasons why I decided to quit the SRF. At the time I thought that one should respect the privacy of individuals and I also did not like the idea of SRF members being able to read my mind.
quote:
If I may with all my respect to your wisdom posts on AYP, i've been taught by powerful tantrik-shamans under different lineages that it is not good to enter someone without his consent.
Either the one who knows this technique can set up psychic shield so in no time, it would stir up your own karma reflected and multiplied by 10.
On the other side, if the one you enter into is not consentful, then you can trap yourself inside him and not be able to come back or at least wound energetically both of you.
The applications of such techniques are awesome but believe me, the results can be drastic if not done correctly !
I know for sure that we don't speak of the same thing. I do this in the central channel, and it has nothing to do with shields etc... It is a side-effect of boddhicitta - that's why I described the circumstances. The person can be open or closed, it makes no difference to me. You speak of shield, but some persons are naturally shielded, as I am, for example. No seer could ever see anything about me. But I'm sure that my own technique would go beyond that if I meet someone like me. It doesn't happen at this level.
As I said, it is the side effect of boddhicitta. The only way to prevent it would be to stop feeling love toward someone. "Don't love him. You have no right". Well. That's against the teachings. Strangely, I was doing this yesterday, and the lama was saying :"You must love other people really really strongly. Equanimity is not just equanimity, it is immense love for everyone".
I don't think I am the person, I don't try to read minds etc... It just stare at the person, just concentrating on love and boddhicitta, feeling it in the central channel and the heart drop... and then it just happens. It is most interesting with people we don't like, because suddenly we understand them, and want only to help.
Besides, I think that an intrusive method would be felt. For example I know a friend who has the habit to stare at girls for "energetic union", but they feel it and don't like it so much. Because he is interested, he has a purpose. He doesn't do it with old and ugly guys. As for myself, I have only one purpose, boddhicitta. So I do it now with everyone, especially those who need help. And I did it yesterday with a very sensitive guy, he didn't feel anything. But he felt it when someone else tried to help him energetically. So that's different. And the lama would have stopped me (and believe me, he can) when I did it with him, or when he saw me do it with others.
In fact, I know that he is inside of everyone he sees, and many he doesn't see physically. There is no reason he should stop me going on the same way. God is omnipresent, in every being. If we shall be god one day, it will not happen suddenly. We will not jump from "just here" to "everywhere" and "inside everyone" in one second. (Amma says she is in everyone).
TI, what is Kunlun ?
friendly
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 4:12:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
I think there is sort of a misunderstanding. I am absolutely not interested in telepathy or whatsoever.
I know for sure that we don't speak of the same thing. I do this in the central channel, and it has nothing to do with shields etc... It is a side-effect of boddhicitta - that's why I described the circumstances. The person can be open or closed, it makes no difference to me. You speak of shield, but some persons are naturally shielded, as I am, for example. No seer could ever see anything about me. But I'm sure that my own technique would go beyond that if I meet someone like me. It doesn't happen at this level.
As I said, it is the side effect of boddhicitta. The only way to prevent it would be to stop feeling love toward someone. "Don't love him. You have no right". Well. That's against the teachings. Strangely, I was doing this yesterday, and the lama was saying :"You must love other people really really strongly. Equanimity is not just equanimity, it is immense love for everyone".
I don't think I am the person, I don't try to read minds etc... It just stare at the person, just concentrating on love and boddhicitta, feeling it in the central channel and the heart drop... and then it just happens. It is most interesting with people we don't like, because suddenly we understand them, and want only to help.
Besides, I think that an intrusive method would be felt. For example I know a friend who has the habit to stare at girls for "energetic union", but they feel it and don't like it so much. Because he is interested, he has a purpose. He doesn't do it with old and ugly guys. As for myself, I have only one purpose, boddhicitta. So I do it now with everyone, especially those who need help. And I did it yesterday with a very sensitive guy, he didn't feel anything. But he felt it when someone else tried to help him energetically. So that's different. And the lama would have stopped me (and believe me, he can) when I did it with him, or when he saw me do it with others.
In fact, I know that he is inside of everyone he sees, and many he doesn't see physically. There is no reason he should stop me going on the same way. God is omnipresent, in every being. If we shall be god one day, it will not happen suddenly. We will not jump from "just here" to "everywhere" and "inside everyone" in one second. (Amma says she is in everyone).
Do you consider it is in fact Shaktipat as you wrote earlier in this thread "As for Shaktipat, it is the indian name for transmission. When a guru enters your central channel, it is Shaktipat." ?
Albert |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 6:32:30 PM
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I suppose it is meant to be one day. The guru is in me, as he is in others. This kind of "unions" are like the guru uniting with the guru by the means of central channels. Somehow I feel like there is only one central channel, and none is alone in it because we're all in it.
That's why I would say : tantric union being the same thing in essence (union of central channels), it cannot be personal, nor motivated by personal research for happiness or well-being, or enlightenment. Motivation should be the good of all sentient being. Through this motivation, one can reach universality, and help all beings from the inside.
I don't pretend to give any Shaktipat to anyone of course. I'm just asking the guru to do it, and to use me if I can help. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 6:35:22 PM
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Hi sadak
Thank you for writing all that. It helps me understand that we are all connected through the heart by love and that we are one, like [emc]'s ocean.
quote:
Originally posted by kadak
TI, what is Kunlun ?
Kunlun, is a method of clearing the pathways in the body through involuntary shaking. It is taught by Max Christensen:Lama Ngakpa Dorje (Tibetan). Sadak, have you ever heard of him?
It is supposed to be the ultimate root practice, older than anything else..
Here is a link to the website:
http://www.kunlunbliss.com
Here is a link to Kunlun on this forum:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3314
Here is a link to Kunlun on the taobums (there are many topics there):
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...ic=3646&st=0
TI
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2008 : 9:33:08 PM
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Hi
I've read the different things, it seems rather soft, compared to tummo. And when you're trained in the harder technique, the softer one doesn't seem so interesting.
And I have to confess that all this bliss advertising doesn't seem serious to me. These seminars will catch people in search for personal well-being, like chi-qung, tantric seminars etc... But once you're in the boddhisattva path, all these personnal issues, problems, bliss... seem rather small-minded.
(BTW, my name is kadak, which is a tibetan word. But Sadak is great too, because I'm trying to be one).
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2008 : 7:12:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
Hi
I've read the different things, it seems rather soft, compared to tummo. And when you're trained in the harder technique, the softer one doesn't seem so interesting.
And I have to confess that all this bliss advertising doesn't seem serious to me. These seminars will catch people in search for personal well-being, like chi-qung, tantric seminars etc... But once you're in the boddhisattva path, all these personnal issues, problems, bliss... seem rather small-minded.
(BTW, my name is kadak, which is a tibetan word. But Sadak is great too, because I'm trying to be one).
Hi kadak
I'm terribly sorry for the mistake. K is quite far away from S on the keyboard so it must have been a mental lapse (or a sign) For anyone who is interested, here is a link to "sadak":
http://www.tibetan-astrology.net/sadak.html
Don't be fooled by the presentation of Kunlun, the marketing and it's simplicity of practice. The same shaking method is also revealed by Barabar Brennan in her "Hands of Light" book and by Osho as a kundalini meditation. And yes, the shaking part is mindless and quite boring but it's a practice in clearing and 'letting go'. It will clear you out so thoroughly that your body might disappear. 
When I first 'tied into Max' after listening to him speak on a Radio Show, I experienced energy surges for 1 1/2 hours after.. :) I also found that doing Kunlun has really accelerated every thing else.
Just thought I'd mention it.
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 12:56:02 AM
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Hi,
For the last four days I've changed my meditation from the AYAM meditation to the "OM -one" "OM -two" while matching the in-breath with the OM and the out-breath with the count. (the ringing is now in both ears equally now but not as loud.  )
This is what I did yesterday:
- standard practice: 1/2 hr Bhastrika, Spinal Breathing, Meditation
- Kunlun (bounce the legs, let go) 1/2 hr
- standard practice: 45 min Bhastrika, Spinal Breathing, Meditation, rest. (I started to see a light blue and white clump of light but I could not make it clearer)
- 1 hour slow abdominal deep breathing to gather chi while finishing off "Path Notes of an American Ninja Master" by Glenn Morris. After about 40 minutes my hands and face started getting hot. Heat down the nostrils too. Glenn's experience with kundalini is very similar to mine; pain in the perenium, visions of female genitalia, naked woman appearing (he calls her Shiva), psychic phenomenon...
- 20 minutes full lotus to see if I could magnify the light blue and white light
- 1/2 Micro Cosmic Orbit or which half was the reversed path because that is supposed to cool you down. It worked to a degree.
This is what i did today:
- by a serene location by a river (beautiful nature setting) I did several asanas including full lotus while seated on a tatami mat on the ground. I also performed various breathing routines.
As I was sitting there a young couple drove up, got out of their car and set up a sun-bathing camp about 300 yards away. I looked a few times at them but continued with meditation. It was sort of funny because I was almost seeing the entire nature scene before me with eyes closed.
At one point I mentally zoomed in to the young couple lying on their blanket and that scene became crystal clear, like I was looking at them through binoculars. I was amazed, astounded .. However, when I opened my eyes and looked over, the male was not in the position that I had zoomed in on; he had lifted his legs so his knees were now bent. I would have expected to see his legs laying flat as I had observed in the zoom in.
Maybe there is a time warp when I zoom? I've got to remember that. Either that, or I'm developing some sort of photographic memory and I'm just playing with the memory of the visual inside my head??
-I did my normal practice of 1/2 hour while sitting in easy posture. Since my hip was hurting quite a bit I felt that I hadn't gotten a good meditation so I took a breather and then went in the other room and sat on my meditation chair. I did another 1/2 there.
At the end of this meditation, something strange happened. All of a sudden, something melted coming from the top of my head and there was a shower of silver white light that rained down in me. It filled my head and upper body. The shower resembled streams of water and it felt nice (not that pleasureable though, it felt like very fine little tingles). My body did not dissolve. This experience lasted about 3 seconds. I think my surprise at this phenomenon pulled me out of it. I wonder what that was.
-During the afternoon meditation, I started to see a dark thing in the same location where the lights/sun/moon appear. I focused on it for a while to try to make it clearer or pull it closer. It was very weird. It looked like a circle with dark spots in the center. It did not shine. It had 10 petals surrounding it like a sunflower's petals. It gave off no light, or rather, it contained enough light to barely make out the outline but it was not a luminous body. It did not radiate any light. It's color was smoky gray. The background was black. I wonder what that is!!! I hope it's not my solar plexus chakra..
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 5:04:10 PM
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Hi
I have to tell someone.
This morning I went and sat out by the river again. I managed to read out loud the Bhuta Shudhi Mantra three times. Then I performed a few exercises but nothing event-full happened.
When I got back home, I did my regular practice. During meditation, I had a very subtle melting of sorts but only for a second. After practice, I went and sat in the bathroom and had a cigarette and sipped on the rest of my coffee.
I started thinking about the heart meditations, melting the heart, the light in the heart chakra.. I decided to do a heart meditation right there on the bathroom floor:
I focussed on the white light in my heart and kept my attention on it. After a few minutes I started to shake. I took an overall census of body states and my breathing was being controlled by my concentration, my perineum was contracted as well as the anus and the abdomen (lightly and getting tighter). I noticed that the pulses were going down through my legs, up my body and even in the arms. Was this kunlun energy activating? It was also very comfortable to sit and it felt like my body had a certain strength to it.
I relaxed everything but the pulses continued. I kept on meditating on the white light in the heart and the pulses grew stronger. As the pulses were occuring, again, the perineum anus and lower abdomen were contracting. I just let them and kept on focussing on the heart.
Next, I brought down divine energy from above, through the crown and into the heart. This produced a kind of swoon. I kept at it for 1/2 a minute. As the energy from the root came up and the divine energy came down and met at the heart, the white light in my heart grew bigger. Meanwhile, the pulses were getting stronger. I went back to just focussing on the heart light for a while longer.
I stopped the meditation and took inventory again. I just relaxed everything. My perineum was pulsing and seemed to be the source of the pulses!!! It was pulsing about 5 times a second. Solid waves of pulses. Now I'm thinking that, as mentioned in the B Gita, the easiest method of bringing the root energy up is by centering on the heart chakra. And my meditation on the heart chakra caused the perenium to start pulsing.
Perhaps the pulsing perineum is a precursor to kundalini rising/activation? Has anyone else out there experienced that phenomenon?
TI |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Jun 29 2008 7:24:43 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2008 : 7:36:26 PM
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Hi,
Ho ho ho I've just finished reading multiple articles on how the perineum throbs when kundalini is awakened!
For example: I found this on Sri Swami Sivananda's document called "Kundalini Yoga":
quote:
"EXPERIENCES ON AWAKENING OF KUNDALINI
During meditation you behold divine visions, experience divine smell, divine taste, divine touch, hear divine Anahata sounds. You receive instructions from God. These indicate that the Kundalini Shakti has been awakened. When there is throbbing in Muladhara, when hairs stand on their roots, when Uddiyana, Jalandhara and Mulabandha come involuntarily, know that Kundalini has awakened."
That is very interesting. According to this excerpt and my experience today, I would say that I'm having success. Not only is the throbbing of the Muladhara an indicator, but the involuntary Uddiyana, Jalandhara and Mulabandha which I described as contracting on their own (I just let them). The other phenomenon I noticed was that the body felt really good and powerful, like it was a pleasure to sit in that posture.
Also, the waves which were emanating from the perineum are still going on, several hours later. I think I'll go meditate again..
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2008 : 5:40:03 PM
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Hi
This is where I'm at today.
I don't understand shambhavi. 
There seems to be two ways to perform shambhavi. The first way is to focus your eyes up between your brows and gently contract your eyebrows which exerts a slight pressure on that area. You fix your gaze at that location, and keep looking there. This had been the 'shambhavi' that I have been performing most of the time, during spinal breathing, during meditation and experimentation.
The other kind of Shambavi (notice I capitalized it) is when you pretend that you are either falling asleep or about to pass out; the first thing you do is produce the feeling in your forehead, then your head and neck automatically relax and finally your eyes roll up and inwards all by themselves. The main focus is the 'passing out' feeling starting at the middle forehead and sucking it back into the head. When I do this I get the following effects:
1)It is extremely disorienting. I lose touch with my surroundings. It does feel like I could pass out. My mind becomes empty quickly.
2)I automatically feel tingling and a connection to my testicles as well as the lower tan tien. It is a pleasurable connection. It is like this style of Shambhavi exposes a pathway between my brow and my testicles and there is a secondary connection to a centre an inch below my navel.
3)When I perform this Shambhavi for 20 seconds, I start to get hot quickly.
4)Today, I tried this style of Shambhavi on and off for a while as I was sitting at my desk. Maybe, a total time of 2 minutes. Well, now my head, shoulders, arms and hands are hot, and they feel like raw nerves with a slight tingle. I feel sunburned inside. There is pressure in my forehead and I lose my balance easily (like I've just woken from a very deep sleep).
5)As usual, when I perform this style of Shambhavi, I'm immersed in some kind of light that before today I believed was some kind of photo-emmision from the cones and rods in my eyes, but now I'm wondering differently.
6)After stopping, it feels like I have a very strong magnetic hole in between my eyes and a smaller one about 1 inch higher.
This second style of Shambhavi is encouraging to me, because, I read on this site that ida and pingala are connected to the left and right testicles respectively.
http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm
quote:
Ida and Pingala Nadis are not the gross sympathetic chains. These are the subtle Nadis that carry the Sukshma Prana. In the physical body these tentatively correspond to the right and left sympathetic chains.
Ida starts from the right testicle and Pingala from the left testicle.
So, I now believe that the second style of Shambhavi is directly activating or tapping into the ida and pingala channels, perhaps stopping them thus activating the central channel or causing kundalini to rise???
If anyone would like to try this second style of Shambhavi and see what it does for them, I would sure be interested in knowing what your results are. Thanks!
TI
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2008 : 08:23:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
The other kind of Shambavi (notice I capitalized it) is when you pretend that you are either falling asleep or about to pass out; the first thing you do is produce the feeling in your forehead, then your head and neck automatically relax and finally your eyes roll up and inwards all by themselves. The main focus is the 'passing out' feeling starting at the middle forehead and sucking it back into the head. When I do this I get the following effects:
This kind of sambhavi spontaneouly happens when you experiment strong bliss (with winds or drops involved). In your description, bliss doesn't seem to be the triggering factor, so you should be careful. In all the techniques involving winds in the central channel, bliss should come first, because all the other phenomena like disorientation would not be disturbing. As a friend said "the only reason who could convince ego to die, is love". If you read christian mystics, they all want to die for love. But if love (bliss) is not strong enough, you see death coming (dissolving the winds is exactly like death) and you may have second-thoughts... For example, UG Krishnamurti was rather afraid the first time he "died" (a "strike" of example clear light), and I guess he is not the only one. Then he said all the process during the 6 months after was like hell. In my opinion, he wasn't moved by love, so it was very difficult. On the contrary, when christian mystics experiment this sort of clear light, they're really happy, in fact they just want to die and see God, so that's easy. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2008 : 10:54:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kadak
This kind of sambhavi spontaneouly happens when you experiment strong bliss (with winds or drops involved). In your description, bliss doesn't seem to be the triggering factor, so you should be careful. In all the techniques involving winds in the central channel, bliss should come first, because all the other phenomena like disorientation would not be disturbing. As a friend said "the only reason who could convince ego to die, is love". If you read christian mystics, they all want to die for love. But if love (bliss) is not strong enough, you see death coming (dissolving the winds is exactly like death) and you may have second-thoughts... For example, UG Krishnamurti was rather afraid the first time he "died" (a "strike" of example clear light), and I guess he is not the only one. Then he said all the process during the 6 months after was like hell. In my opinion, he wasn't moved by love, so it was very difficult. On the contrary, when christian mystics experiment this sort of clear light, they're really happy, in fact they just want to die and see God, so that's easy.
Hi Kadak
Thank you for your response and thank you very much for pointing out UG Krishnamurti. What a heavy hitting author! I've spent the day reading some of his books like this one:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Natural_State
Perhaps (as you mention) UG was not moved by love. Perhaps his heart chakra did not open completely? Perhaps his kundalini never rose to the higher chakras? Perhaps, as he says, we cannot understand his experience?
Did he consume most of his white drops by having frequent sex? Here is what UG said:
quote:
Once a holy man came to see me. He was claiming that denial of sex is so essential for the spiritual future of man. I said, “ It's a crime against nature. Nature has not intended you to deny sex. †Then he got up and left. How can that abnormal situation be made a model for all spiritual aspirants and why torture them? Why has denial of sex been made the foundation of spiritual enlightenment? As a reaction or a revolt against that, what you call the tantric system appeared in this country.
I don't know. He does seem to have experienced bliss and ecstasy but attributes it to experiential realms. He also says that the human body cannot tolerate continued stimulation (such as bliss and meditation) for long periods of time. Here are some quotes:
quote:
So when there is an outburst of energy which is not your energy or my energy but God's (call it by any name you like) it is like a river in spate. The energy that is operating there does not feel the limitations of the body. It is not interested. It has its own momentum. It is a very painful thing. It is not ecstatic, blissful and all that rubbish, stuff and nonsense. It is really a painful thing.
Your natural state has no relationship whatsoever with the religious states of bliss and ecstasy. They lie within the field of experience. Those who have led man on his search for religiousness throughout the centuries have perhaps experienced those religious states, so can you. They are thought-induced states of being and as they come so do they go. All are trips in the wrong direction. They are all within the field of time. Timeless can never be experienced, grasped, contained, much less given expression to, by any man. That beaten track will lead you nowhere. There is no oasis situated yonder. You are stuck with the mirage.
The realization dawns on you that those experiences, however profound they may be, aren't worth anything, that's all. You may be in a blissful state; even after that calamity you have blissful states, ecstatic states, a sudden melting away of everything that is there. It doesn't mean anything. You experience, I experience—what is the difference?
You cannot experience anything which you can call your own. Whatever you experience, however profound that experience may be, is the result of the knowledge that is part of your consciousness. Somebody must have, somewhere along the line, experienced bliss, ecstasy—call it by whatever name you like—and that experience is part of your consciousness. You have to come to a point where you see that there is no such thing as a new experience at all. The mystic who experiences what the sages have talked about is still in the field of duality, whereas the sages or seers are functioning in the undivided state of consciousness.
And here is some more food for thought(not that UG is lacking any of that.. )
quote:
When you succeed in your imagination that you have controlled your thoughts and experienced some space between those thoughts, or some state of thoughtlessness, you feel that you are getting somewhere. That is a thought-induced state of thoughtlessness. The fact that you experience the space between two thoughts, the thoughtless state, means that the thought was very much there.
Right now, after the initial impact of reading UG's "The Natural State" I'm thinking that he is sort of an existential buddhist. His writing has had such an impact on me that it's going to take a few days to digest everything, assess and see where I end up. 
I have ordered the "Heart drops of dharmakaya" book. It should be interesting.
Say Kadak, I have a question for you. In "The Clear Light of Bliss" it says this:
quote:
Penetrating the crown channel increases the white drops, penetrating the throat channel wheel makes dream practices very powerful, penetrating the heart channel wheel enables us to maintain the appearance of clear light, penetrating the navel channel wheel increases inner fire, penetrating the channel wheel of the secret place induces an experience of strong bliss, and penetrating the channel wheel at the tip of the sex organ enhances the experience of strong bliss and induces a quick, deep, long sleep.
Do you happen to know what penetrating the other four doors do? Especially the Ajna or brow area?
OM Shanti
TI
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