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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 08 2011 : 11:42:11 PM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you for the info.
I know what Yogani is saying here. Yesterday, I did a 'sensing the inner body' meditation for 1 hour. After the hour was over, I just sat in my chair and was amazed at the whole body ecstatic conductivity that I experienced.. It permeates and envelopes the entire body and feels like it extends about 1 foot around the periphery of the body.
However, that overloaded me as I did not sleep at all last night. The other thing that I found interesting is that, while lying in bed and just focusing on the third eye, my breathing would stop! It kind of freaked me out for a while but then I thought maybe my body was so charged that it didn't need to breathe anymore.
Long story short, I made a conscious effort to stay away from the third eye for the night and I didn't suffocate and I'm still alive! :)
Perhaps I am stumbling upon Yogananda's assertion that performing kriya yoga is the natural way to charge the body and cause the breath to stop. I never did learn about that technique, but perhaps now I understand the mechanics of how it works.
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
What you are experiencing in meditation is savikalpa samadhi, samadhi with the movement of imagintion (vikalpa). If you let the mantra refine at this level you will gradually come beyond this stage to stillness and silence without imagination (nirvikalpa samadhi).
...
Thank you for this. It helps me to figure out what to do during meditation... For example, the only way I can hit that state is to do "tongue on back palate" and sambhavi while repeating the "I am". And, I'm starting to understand that sambhavi causes pratyahara (as per Yogani's definition of pratyahara link: http://www.aypsite.org/glossary.html ) because when I perform the 'sucking inwards at the brow' it is shutting down the external senses and helping to focus inwards because it feels so good.. Also, the root lock sort of does the same thing too by itself.. It sure is ecstatic anyway.. :)
Now, if I can figure out how to refine the mantra. The most I can do is stop it and start it when I'm in that state. Or perhaps I should do an hour of 'sensing the inner body' followed by the "I am" meditation. Sounds like a potential gross overload might be in store for me, but it might be worth it..
Thanks again for your comments and time.
:)
TI |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Jul 09 2011 12:28:02 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2011 : 1:52:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
...that overloaded me as I did not sleep at all last night.
Did you stay in sleep-like body positions for at least seven hours? Some say that is all that is really needed. How did you feel in the morning? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2011 : 6:14:25 PM
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Hi TI,
You need to find a balanced routine that you can keep up over the long term without damaging yourself. Constantly overloading with energetic practices isn't going to be the most efficient way to move forward. Better to be able to stay on the comfortable side of the line, over the long term, and then you can progress with speed. If you want to continue with the sensing the body practice, I would recommend doing 20 mins before meditation and seeing how that goes for a while. Then, if you are stable with that, you could up the time by 5 or 10 mins a week until you find a level where you are comfortable. Some people can go without sleep as Bewell suggests, but others can't and find that they are too tired to practice after a few days or weeks of sleepless nights. The sensing the body practice is less powerful, and less far reaching than spinal breathing so it can be practiced safely for longer periods of time. But as you have found, an hour is probably too much, at least for now.
Regarding sambhavi, medula pull, kechari and mulabandha during meditation, the recommendation in AYP is to only practice them if they happen naturally without any conscious effort on your part. If they are not happening automatically, then best to simply follow the procedure of Deep Meditation and not worry about getting into any particular meditation state (samadhi).
With meditation it is important to remain equanimous with regards to anything that arises. This means not becoming attached to any particular experience that arises, or rejecting any experience that arises. If you find that you have become distracted by anything at all, then simply pick up the mantra again and favor that over whatever has pulled you away in that moment. Equanimity, leads to peace because there is no longer any striving to achieve a particular result or experience or be rid of any particular result or experience. Peace, when it is rested in, gradually expands into bliss. As you know, bliss is the second factor of enlightenment. So it is much more important to cultivate equanimity, peace and bliss than to try and repeat any particular meditation state that you experienced at some point in the past, however amazing it may have been.
Regarding knowledge, knowledge is usefull up to a point so that you know what you are doing and you can do it skillfully. In yoga there are two kinds of knowledge, intellectual knowledge and knowledge of the Self (atmajnana). It is this second kind of knowledge that is the supreme knowledge and which you cannot find in any book. It can only be found through direct experience when the intellect is transcended.
Christi |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2011 : 6:35:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
...that overloaded me as I did not sleep at all last night.
Did you stay in sleep-like body positions for at least seven hours? Some say that is all that is really needed. How did you feel in the morning?
Hi Be :)
I remained in bed throughout the night, except at one point when I got out of bed after coming out of a nightmare..
The first part of the night was spent analyzing the implications of the body breath stopping naturally when focusing on the third eye. There are many exciting discoveries to be made there and lots of questions.. like.. Does conscious relaxation flood the body with prana and cause the cells to become charged to the point where they no longer need oxygen? Or has the body forgotten how to relax deeply and by consciously relaxing, the body remembers that it can do that? Or, does ecstatic conductivity charge the system so it doesn't need to breathe? Or if a person's third eye is gaining power, does just the focusing on it stop the mind and breath? Most likely it is the combination of 1 hour of deep relaxation, kundalini/prana and then focusing on the third eye before sleep..
Usually, when I go to bed, after relaxing and letting go, my breath is usually medium deep and continuous. There are no pauses between the in and out breaths and the sound and rhythmic motion of the breathing promotes a feeling of well-being and eventually sleep. I was expecting that to be the case again that night. But it was not so. That's why it was so shocking to realize that I had quit breathing..
When I focused on the light in the third eye, my breathing stopped. Then, the "I" feeling in me, the point of view from about 1 foot behind the body, examined the outline of the body and it wasn't moving. I was excited and afraid.. I wish I hadn't been afraid because, at one point I exited into a dream which turned into an adventure in a large mall where a teenager pulled a gun on me and shot me.. I think the fear manifested into some kind of fear of death.. At that point I got up and had a smoke.
The rest of the night was spent thinking, then gradually the thoughts reduced and I could see more dreams calling.. I stayed out of them. Then the dreams faded and I was in a large dark space, just watching my body sleep (and breathe). It is like you are a 'point of view' watching the body from about 1 foot away, from the inside behind the back of the head, but there is no back-of-the-head, just dark empty space. There are no thoughts and no visions but you know/feel that you are aware and that you exist. There is no thinking, emotion, reaction.. It is like being in limbo or suspended animation. Then the alarm went off and in a split second, lights flash, the mind starts up again and then you remember who you are and what day it is. Back to normal..
The next day I felt ok, a little waisted, but that went away after the morning meditation.
The "staying awake all night" or rather, I should probably call it "staying aware all night" has happened to me a few times before. Those experiences mainly commenced when I was doing the "seeking the perceiver" meditations as part of a regular practice. It seems to have precipitated the recognition that I can just 'be', apart from mind and body.. and that state usually manifests in the morning before waking.
:)
TI
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Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Jul 09 2011 7:02:41 PM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2011 : 7:54:13 PM
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Hi Christi :)
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi TI,
You need to find a balanced routine that you can keep up over the long term without damaging yourself. Constantly overloading with energetic practices isn't going to be the most efficient way to move forward. Better to be able to stay on the comfortable side of the line, over the long term, and then you can progress with speed. If you want to continue with the sensing the body practice, I would recommend doing 20 mins before meditation and seeing how that goes for a while. Then, if you are stable with that, you could up the time by 5 or 10 mins a week until you find a level where you are comfortable. Some people can go without sleep as Bewell suggests, but others can't and find that they are too tired to practice after a few days or weeks of sleepless nights. The sensing the body practice is less powerful, and less far reaching than spinal breathing so it can be practiced safely for longer periods of time. But as you have found, an hour is probably too much, at least for now.
I agree with you. I'm not trying to incorporate 'sensing the inner body' as part of my regular practice. That's just something I do every now and then because it feels so darn good! Also, if you read the post I wrote to Bewell, it is not that I'm not sleeping. My body is sleeping, it's just that my awareness isn't shutting off.
And, yes, spinal breathing is very powerful. I'm getting flows of ecstatic conductivity all the way up the spine when I do that.
quote:
Regarding sambhavi, medula pull, kechari and mulabandha during meditation, the recommendation in AYP is to only practice them if they happen naturally without any conscious effort on your part. If they are not happening automatically, then best to simply follow the procedure of Deep Meditation and not worry about getting into any particular meditation state (samadhi).
Yes, I realize that. I'm just about at 4 years of practicing at least twice a day, since starting with AYP and I have been doing kechari and sambhavi during pretty much every meditation session for the last three years (except for the three or four months when i changed practices). When I try not to do them, as when I decide to start over or get back to the basics, I have to struggle not to do them. I think I'm pretty much stuck with them now whenever I experience the ecstatic conductivity.. I think it is a natural reaction to ecstatic conductivity.
Ok. Here is a description of what happens during my regular "AYP" sessions (yes, I have modified them slightly, the guru is in me.. ):
1) Prayer
2) Bhastrika (while chanting mentally "AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA")
3) Spinal Breathing (I've added AUM ). I pull the ecstatic conductivity from the root upwards through the spine. I'm getting a steady stream of EC all the way up the spine and into the brow now. By the time I reach the top of an in-breath, it feels like I'm about to have an orgasm, but the feeling is not localized, it seems to be radiating outwards from the center. I quit before it gets too intense. Sometimes I'm sure I'm only doing spinal breathing for 3 minutes.
4) Mantra Meditation. I can't do the 'effortless' mantra repetition. It gives me a headache and really disorients me for the rest of the day. I just have to focus. Perhaps the 'releasing' of the mantra is supposed to be effortless, but just bringing up the mantra and letting things be destroys my ability to think clearly aftewards.. So, I think the mantra and put effort into watching it. Then my third eye (1 inch behind the brow) starts to feel ecstatic. If I didn't have my tongue and eyes up at that point, they go there naturally. (but usually, I just leave them there after the Spinal Breathing). Then, my root starts to contract and pull in. Then, trails of ecstatic conductivity start coming up the root with some mild heat in the spine from the heart to the brow..
Then, the space opens up in the center of the head where the mantra turns into ribbons of visions... etc..
5) Sit in silence and watch for a few minutes.
quote:
With meditation it is important to remain equanimous with regards to anything that arises. This means not becoming attached to any particular experience that arises, or rejecting any experience that arises. If you find that you have become distracted by anything at all, then simply pick up the mantra again and favor that over whatever has pulled you away in that moment. Equanimity, leads to peace because there is no longer any striving to achieve a particular result or experience or be rid of any particular result or experience. Peace, when it is rested in, gradually expands into bliss. As you know, bliss is the second factor of enlightenment. So it is much more important to cultivate equanimity, peace and bliss than to try and repeat any particular meditation state that you experienced at some point in the past, however amazing it may have been.
Agreed.. That's what I experience during the sensing the inner body routine. Peace and bliss..
quote:
Regarding knowledge, knowledge is usefull up to a point so that you know what you are doing and you can do it skillfully. In yoga there are two kinds of knowledge, intellectual knowledge and knowledge of the Self (atmajnana). It is this second kind of knowledge that is the supreme knowledge and which you cannot find in any book. It can only be found through direct experience when the intellect is transcended.
Christi
Focus on the knowledge that "I AM", for the knower is the door into the beyond.
Self-realization is realizing the self. Realization is 'knowing'. To
know is to have acquired knowledge.
Focus on "that which knows". That is God.
The Witness isn't just a watcher, the Witness also knows.
Don't grasp at mind stuff, thoughts, feelings, sensations etc.. for up to this point in your life, you have been grasping at them continually without conscious effort and they have been blocking your realization of that which exists when the mind is not grasping.
Knowledge is all there is.. Even the knowledge that "you don't know" will create a vacuum that will open you up to the beyond. But there still has to be something that 'knows'.
Thanks again Christi for your insight, knowledge and concern. :)
:)
TI |
Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Jul 09 2011 8:24:31 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4518 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2011 : 02:49:32 AM
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Hi TI,
Well, it sounds like you have modified every AYP practice that you are doing to the point where you could safely say that it is not AYP at all, but rather your own experiment. That's fine as long as you are happy doing that.
I would carry on as you are, it sounds like you are doing fine.
If you practice self inquiry, you could ask the question: "where is the point where the knower ends and the known begins?".
Wishing you all the best,
Christi |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2011 : 03:11:07 AM
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Hi. :)
This is an update.
Since Jul 10, I did what I thought was TM, or NSR or Deep Meditation for 5 days in a row, using the "i am" mantra, as best as I could understand the technique. What would happen during the meditations is that two or three times during the meditation, I would lapse into a bright white light, feel bliss and joy, but only for a second or two. And it was a very small white light. Somebody else refered to these as 'lapses in consciousness' so I kind of got fed up with the whole process. So, I quite my normal practice and just did "sensing the inner body" for 3 days, for regular practices, for 35 minutes twice a day.
Well, I overloaded big time. I spent two nights, watching my body sleep. I had lots of heat and tingles throughout my arms, hands, face and even down the legs all day and night long. On the third evening I tried to add the "Mind Like Sky" meditation from Jack Kornfield because I am getting to the point where this vapoury substance is expanding in the field of awareness but I just couldn't complete it. My perineum felt like it was going to explode. Big time overload. Way too intense. I just got fed with it all.. I started thinking that kundalini and ecstatic conductivity is just way too coarse for me.
So, I spent a few days worth of practices, just sitting there, not really knowing what to do and cut the sitting time down to 20 minutes. Gradually the kundalini overload got better and I got a few black nights of sleep.
BETTER UNDERSTANDING
I have to confess. When I first heard about Rosenthal's book on "Transcendence" (TM) I had an urge to read it. So I went to Chapters, a book store. I checked the computer and found it but I had no idea where the book was situated in the store. So, I kind of asked the universe to help me. I simply walked out into the middle store, down an aisle and stopped. Then I looked down. There it was!
Then a few weeks ago, I ordered David Lynch's book called "Catching The Big Fish". It came in today. As I walked to the mail box, something in me knew that the book had come. I knew it beyond a doubt. When I opened the mail box, it was there. So, I've been getting signs that I have to understand the TM meditation technique and it is significant for me.
I just finished reading that book. It is about "meditation, consciousness and creativity". In it David describes "transcendence" or his experiences in the "Unified Field". I am so grateful that I have read this book because, it has finally shown me what the state of transcendence is and now I realize that I've hit that state in the past and now I know how to get back into it.
David describes the transcendent state as something that most people have experienced, but don't realize it. Just before you go to sleep, you experience a feeling of falling and then maybe you see some white light and feel a little jolt of bliss. He goes on to depict a scenario where there is a round white room with three curtains in it. One curtain is yellow, one is red and one is blue. He compares these to three states of consciousness (waking, sleeping and dreaming). He says that within the gap between the curtains, one can see the "white of the Absolute - the pure bliss consciousness." David says that with TM you can experience the white wall anytime by meditating. And, later on he says that the deeper you go, eventually you hit 100 percent pure bliss. David goes on to say that transcending is a scientifically measurable state of brain functioning that is "total brain functioning".
So how does that help me? I now realize that if Deep Meditation is TM, I haven't been doing it right all along, because if I would have been I should have been transcending during mantra repetition.
However, in retrospect, I have transcended before a few times. The first time I hit that state was when I was sitting on my recliner, reading Ramana. Just as a casual thing to do, I tried to find the feeling of "Who am I?". (I think I wrote about this experience before here..) I ended up on the right side of my heart in my chest and suddenly I found "Me". I was engulfed in a bright white light and felt so blissful and happy that I started to laugh. The laughter pulled me out. I wish someone would have told me that that was "transcending". I thought I was doing self-inquiry. That is the state! Is is so wonderful and happy, it is incredulous to think that one could stay immersed in that state for any length of time, let alone help others to realize that state permanently.
Since then, I've also experienced minute instances of that state (transcending) while doing simple mantra repetition. And it didn't seem to matter which mantra I used. AUM or AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA or i am or Lam. There is always an initial feeling of movement followed by the sight of the white light and then realization of bliss, if only for a split second or so.
The important thing is this: Although AYP says that it is the practice that purifies, and this is probably true although the pull of maya is very great. I believe that if you are doing Deep Meditation properly, you should be able to verify proper technique by having the experience of transcending. If, after a few months of deep meditation (or TM or NSR), you don't get to a point where everything dissolves and you find yourself in a wonderful state of bliss (and perhaps white light), then it is time to check your technique and seek clarification. I really wish someone would have told me that sooner. I mean, I spent four years meditating but my focus was on trying hard to concentrate and although it did lead me into some states of samadhi, the light was always in the distance.
For whatever reason, perhaps to cater to beginners or lessen the stress of having a goal oriented practice, AYP does not mention the "transcendence" state that one 'should' realize during deep meditation. Maybe Yogani would say, "not everyone will see white light", or "not everyone will be able to transcend and verify their state, therefore, to accomodate the largest number of beginners and support the adoption of meditation practices for as wide an audience as possible, we will not mention the simple effect of transcending which might arise from deep meditation, and focus instead on the necessity of purification.
However, in my mind, I don't see where purification has anything to do with the ability to transcend. It seems that one can just jump into transcendence or the Unified Field, without much effort at all, just correct technique. The books on TM say that one can produce the same state of total brain function (transcendence), the same as experienced by seasoned TM meditators, usually within 2 months of regular practice.
The first time I started to realize that maybe the "transcendent" state was when I was experiencing these little blips into the light/bliss that I had been experiencing was when I posted it here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....age=15#85374
Now I have confirmation. And this is all making so much sense to me. We are continually bathed in the white light, it surrounds us but it is blocked by the mind, thoughts, sensations etc. I can see the white light through some of the chakras (which are holes between the curtains, mainly the brow and the crown and heart). Many times I have meditated and have seen the white light in the distance, never getting too close. I've seen the mind and it's thoughts stand in the way on more than one occasion. Usually, the white light is behind the mantra, off in the distance. See, I've been hanging on too hard, trying too much, not letting go. It actually is a very simple technique. I couldn't grasp it. I guess I have too much mind. But now I know. I will succeed at this. I'm so looking forward to it! You can't imagine!
I hope someone can learn something from this post. I wonder how many meditators here have hit the Unified Field (transcendence) and not even given it a second thought.
Have you ever hit a state where you see nothing but white light and feel the joy, bliss and happiness during meditation?
I'd really like to know..
:)
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 6:06:12 PM
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Hi :)
Powers of the Heart
Since I'm on holidays now, I've been treating my time like a retreat, meditating three or four times a day, trying things, enjoying the silence.
When I get up in the morning, I get cleaned up and go to Tim Horton's and buy breakfast. Then I drive down to the golf course and park by the river and eat my breakfast (lately I've been listening to Eckhart Tolle's Practising the Power of Now again).
Then I drive down to the trails by the river, park and walk into the bush to my favorite bench, where I usually meditate after lacing myself with mosquito repellent. There is usually nobody around, except for the occaisional jogger or mountain biker. I usually play Jack Kornfield's Mind Like Sky meditation, which lasts 1/2 hour. It is an excellent place for listening (which is mostly what that meditation is about) because you can hear the train and traffic noise from the city as well as the birds, squirrels, crows and wildlife making sounds.
I sat on the bench and started up my iphone's ipod to the guided meditation. After about 10 minutes into the recording I started wondering about the power of the heart. After all, there are two posts on the AYP forum that refer to the book called "The Power" and both posts indicated that something profound happened during or after reading the book. (I bought the book a few weeks ago, it is mostly about the Power of Love and how to use it to manifest forms/desires). Due to that and my recent resolve to get back into the heart, I decided to listen to the sounds as directed by Jack Kornfield while 'loving them'. There is also a book called "Daughter of Fire" by Irina Tweedle that I read a while ago in which Irina says that the way to meditate is to watch your thoughts and love each and every one of them. So, why not?
I kept on meditating and started to let love flow from my heart to the sounds.
I heard the train in the distance. I loved it. I heard some crows cawing, and I loved the calls. A squirrel let off a machine gun noise. I loved it. A breeze rustled through the leaves and I loved it. When I got to the part in the recording that said to focus on the body sensations, which I think is about 15 minutes into the meditation, a vision appeared directly before me in my mind's eye. It was a vision of thick forest (trees and bushes) with an outline of a fox in the center. I could see the fox's outline very distinctly, the long puffy tail, the pointy nose. The vision wasn't in color, it was made of grayish light.. The vision wasn't disappearing either.
So, I opened my eyes and looked down the path one way, and the other way. I did not see a fox. So I closed my eyes and kept on with the meditation. The vision of the fox remained directly in front of me. A persistent vision! At that point I knew it meant something. Just to be sure, I opened my eyes and looked around again and I couldn't see a fox. So I closed my eyes, and kept on with the meditation, sending love to whatever sounds I heard.
Then I heard a crunching sound that wasn't that typical. Then another. Then a few more. Like leaves breaking, one by one. I opened my eyes and turned around about 160 degrees to my left, over my shoulder behind me, and looked directly into the bush. THE HEAD OF A FOX APPEARED AND IT LOOKED DIRECTLY AT ME!!!
So I said, "Hello, how are you today?". After two seconds, the fox turned around, jumped back into the bush and was gone.
What a rush! To think that the heart knew 5 minutes beforehand about a fox that was going to appear in the bush, and it warned me or announced it's presence!
The third eye is the periscope for the heart. Love is the key to turning it on.
What a rush to realize this!
:)
TI
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Aug 10 2011 : 10:13:18 PM
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Thanks for sharing.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 12:55:30 AM
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Sounds like you are having a good time hanging out at Riverbend with Bewell TI, I'm happy for you. Hahahaha. 
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 2:42:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Sounds like you are having a good time hanging out at Riverbend with Bewell TI, I'm happy for you. Hahahaha.
Hi Carson :)
Be nice now..
I was going to ask.. How did the recording session with Katrine go?
:)
TI |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 3:02:44 PM
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Hi TI 
The recordings went really well and the final product is great. We recorded, mixed and mastered 3 CD's for a total of just over 2.5 hours of material. 1 CD of just music (just about 40 minutes of harp, flute, Irish low whistle and singing), 1 CD with a musical intro/outro and 39 tracks of poetry in English and 1 CD with a musical intro/outro and 39 tracks of poetry in Norwegian. Pretty good for one day and 3 evenings I'd say! I believe Katrine will have it all available for download on her website someday in the not so distant future.
Love!
P.S. FYI, I wasn't trying to be mean or facitious or anything with my above post. I was just joking around as I assumed you were hanging out by the Riverbend golf course and, well, I guess you will have to ask Bewell about the fox.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 3:03:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Sounds like you are having a good time hanging out at Riverbend with Bewell TI, I'm happy for you. Hahahaha.
Hi Carson :)
Be nice now..
TI
Dear TI,
That was a beautiful story, and I thank you for sharing it.
About what Carson wrote, a word of explanation from me may be in order. His comment was not in the category of being "nice" or "not nice." He really is glad for you, as am I. And he really does see that in the mysterious land of siddis that we live in, that story had Bewell written all over it
You see, the fox is my animal. Grandpa fox and I have some kind of special resonance that is bigger than little me and little fox, that crosses over minds and bodies. I've had enough experiences like yours specifically with foxes, embodied foxes that visit at just the right time, that I have a feel for the sign.
Carson knows because the foxes visited our retreat last year in dream form, and when the dream was told, I was like "That's what I'm talking about." When I read your story, I felt that same way again.
Oh, and the love for all fits too |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 3:11:59 PM
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| Let's see. I read Carson's post at 3:02:44 PM and had my reply ready by 3:03:13 PM. Just kidding. Nice cross-post |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2011 : 11:07:11 PM
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Hi Carson and Be :)
Ahhh! That explains it! Thanks for explaining that. The plot thickens.. I wonder what having a fox as a spirit guide means..
Hmmm.. cross post, know in advance,
link:http://www.shamanicjourney.com/arti...gility-magic
quote:
Fox is amongst the most uniquely skilled and ingenious animals of nature. Being a night creature, fox is often imbued with supernatural powers. Foxes are usually seen at dawn and dusk. Dusk starts off their day, and the dawn is its ending. This is the time, when the world of magic and our every day realities cross paths. Foxes live on the edges of forests and open lands, the border areas. As fox is an animal of the between times and places, it can be a guide into the faerie realm. Fox has a long past of magic and cunning associated with it. It can move in and out of circumstance restoring order or causing confusion, depending on the occasion.
...
Fox's power lies in not being able to outrun the hounds, but to know in advance when they will be out hunting.
...
Fox's Wisdom Includes: Shape shifting, cleverness, observational skills, cunning, stealth, camouflage, feminine, courage, invisibility, ability to observe unseen, persistence, gentleness, swiftness, wisdom, reliable friend, magic, shape shifting, invisibility.
Interesting stuff.. :)
Carson, I look forward to listening to Katrine's recordings. I'm sure they will have signature energy patterns in them that will help the listeners' shakti flow.. :)
:)
TI |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 08:17:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I wonder what having a fox as a spirit guide means..
I have wondered about the meaning of the fox as spirit guide for years. I'd like to share something of how I see it at the moment, but it seems some history is necessary to understand the moment.
I look at foxes as the totem animal of my mother's family. Probably around the time my mother had met the man who would become my father, her dad found cute little baby foxes that were about to be killed. In Arthur, Illinois at that time there was a bounty of foxes. One dollar per tail. Grandpa decided to save two or three of those baby foxes (I guess he paid for them). He took them home and gave them to his son, my uncle, with the idea of making pets of the foxes.
A generation later, when I was around age 32, I was interviewing people in my mother's family about fox stories. That week, on the last night I slept in my parent's house before heading home, I had vivid dreams of foxes, very bright and clear and in color. There was a feeling of awe. The next day my wife and I were traveling back to Indiana were we lived, and I was writing about foxes in the family system, and around Lagrange, Indiana, just as I was writing about the story told above, just when I wrote that Grandpa gave a fox to his son, just then I saw a fox along the road. I asked my wife to stop driving. I walked off the road and to the fence, and from there watched a beautiful red fox scamper about on the boarder between a woods an a corn field. I watched for what felt like a long time while I soaked in the sense of power and presence I was feeling.
Part of what makes this scene powerful for me is that what happened between Grandpa and that son, his only son, my uncle: His son was a young driver, and Grandpa was in the car with him navigating, when there was an auto accident, and Grandpa died.
Now what does the fox mean?
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Edited by - bewell on Aug 12 2011 08:27:37 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 08:40:18 AM
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Further thoughts on what the fox means:
My uncle kept the foxes for years as caged pets. The were never domesticated. The were always caged wild animals. They literally bit the hand that fed them. So they were not comfort animals in the conventional sense. They were wild, and it seems to me, meant to be wild.
But their wildness does not imply a necessary lack of real kinship. I feel that the fox is kin, kindred spirit, but also kindred body in some sense. The fox is there to comfort me in my time of separation, in my time of sadness, saying you are not alone. You are profoundly connected.
My most recent experience with an embodied fox here in Baltimore happened when my wife and I were out on a walk. I was recounting a story from the day before when I had visited with my maternal aunt. It was a powerful visit because I had not seen or talked with her in many years, and our conversation had gone deep fast. I love my aunt. She is only seven years older, and we spent many good times together when she was a teen and I was a child. One of the things she shared in that deep conversation was what it was like on the night that Grandpa (her father) died. She, at age seven, was sitting beside him in the car. When the accident happened, his body fell on hers. She had to push his limp body off in order to get up. That night she had written in her journal: "When I moved the body off, it bled even more." She said it was strange when she read her journal from that night decades later because she had totally forgotten there there was any blood at all. As she said this, our eyes were fixed on one another with a kind of love in shared sorrow that is hard to compare.
The next day, I was out on a walk with my wife, telling her that story, and when I came to a stopping point in the story, there as about thirty seconds of silence after, and then this: A huge red fox ran across our path. Right there on a city parking lot, on a sunny day at 9 am, a red fox!
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Edited by - bewell on Aug 12 2011 08:47:32 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 08:51:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Then I heard a crunching sound that wasn't that typical. Then another. Then a few more. Like leaves breaking, one by one. I opened my eyes and turned around about 160 degrees to my left, over my shoulder behind me, and looked directly into the bush. THE HEAD OF A FOX APPEARED AND IT LOOKED DIRECTLY AT ME!!!
So I said, "Hello, how are you today?". After two seconds, the fox turned around, jumped back into the bush and was gone.
This fox scenario somehow reminded me of this story I used to read when I was a kid:
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fo...d_the_Grapes
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 09:05:23 AM
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Since we met under the sign of the fox totem, it means we are kin. TI, you and I are kin!
It is like at the retreat last year in Allentown. I was rooming with Cosmic, and Rohini was walking the halls, overhearing our conversation and tempted to join. Then she had a dream where the three of us, Cosmic, herself, and I were in the woods petting foxes. To me, that means we are kin under the sign of the fox totem.
We love each other, and however it may seem erotic, let there be no mistake, it is meant to be the sort of love shared in family. Sex is taboo. (See Freud, Totem and Taboo, for this interpretation of the totem system in the Ojibwa tribe). |
Edited by - bewell on Aug 12 2011 09:12:11 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 09:47:45 AM
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| The first time I encountered a fox personally (that I recall) was when I was about 14. I was in a patch of trees near a pond that I visited often. I was alone. I saw a fox run out of a woods about three hundred yards away. It ran across an open field and into my little patch of trees. It came straight to me, and when it was about ten feet away, it stopped. I stood still. The fox stood still. We gazed into each other's eyes for what seemed like a very long time. In that gazing contest, I was the first to get uncomfortable. I moved. The fox ran away. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 10:25:11 AM
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I have Pennsylvania Dutch (Old Order Amish) roots, and in that culture there is an old form of folk healing called Brouche, later, in the US called "powwowing." When I was about 31, I decided to research powwowing by visiting Amish relatives and interviewing them about the practice, networking out from there to find current practitioners. The person who became my host was my deceased Grandfather's brother who had remained Amish.
I had read that the "gift" or the energy of healing in Brouche was passed down from a man to a woman to a man to a woman. A gender zig, zag.
On my way down to Arthur, Illinois Amish settlement, I was pondering that zig, zag, and I thought of the energy between me and my mother, between my mother and her father, between her father and his mother in-law. When I thought of that, there was in my mind's eye a kind of flash of lightning, and it kind of shocked my body. That was before my K awakening, and long before I learned about yoga practices.
On my way to that encounter, I was driving at night toward Arthur when I felt that shock of zig sag energy, that lightning bolt, and just then a fox ran across the road in front of the car through the head lights, so close the car almost hit it. But in a flash, it was gone.
That was the first time the fox visit was paired with conscious energy thoughts of my Grandpa. |
Edited by - bewell on Aug 12 2011 10:36:36 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 10:45:46 AM
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For the past ten years, I have been in a meditation group hosted by a single woman a little older than me. We are very close. Honestly, there is an erotic connection under the surface between us. A couple of years ago, it was just she and I working together painting her garage for a day. It was a kind of working retreat where we sat together in the morning and afternoon, and between sits we painted. Very beautiful.
Midway through the day, we looked out the opened door of the garage, and there across the street, in the neighbor's front lawn there was something she had never seen before in that area: a big red fox was out in broad daylight chasing butterflies. We watched in astonishment.
As I see it, it was a sign. We are kin, she and I. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 10:59:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
...
Fox's Wisdom Includes: Shape shifting, cleverness, observational skills, cunning, stealth, camouflage, feminine, courage, invisibility, ability to observe unseen, persistence, gentleness, swiftness, wisdom, reliable friend, magic, shape shifting, invisibility.
Oddly, "invisibility" gets mentioned twice in your list. I guess the writers did not see it the first time
I have done the new age book store style exploration of the fox theme. Once at a particular book store, there was a shamanic drumming workshop where a drum was played as we journeyed into the lower, middle and upper spheres (again, this was before I did yoga). When I did the lower sphere, I joined a fox family in an underground den.
Another day, in that same book store. I was reading about how the fox is gifted with invisibility. It said that the way to practice invisibility is to look at your environment, look at the physical details and mentally blend into it. So I was standing there in the book store doing just that, blending in like a fox in hiding, when my Mennonite Church pastor lady walked in. She walked right past me within two or three feet of me, and it was as if she did not see anyone there at all. It was odd. I had been looking straight at her the whole time.
I decided to go to her and tell her what had happened. Her eyes got wide: "You WERE invisible," she said. |
Edited by - bewell on Aug 12 2011 11:04:03 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Aug 12 2011 : 11:47:41 AM
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While I was down south of New Orleans after the hurricane, volunteering with a Church sponsored disaster relief effort, I met a Native American man who was also a Christian pastor. I asked him if there were any bible teachings that he saw differently than the mainstream white culture interpreted them. He gave me this verse to consider:
Jesus, said, "Foxes have holes, birds have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head."
In this word picture, the foxes and the birds are icons of domesticity, all safe in their dens and nests while Jesus is adrift, homeless with "no place to lay his head."
Then the Native American man said something I had not thought of before. He said, "Dens are for baby foxes, nests are for baby birds. When the babies come of age, they leave the den, they fly from the nest." Then with emphasis he said, "Adult foxes do not need a hole to sleep in, they curl up and sleep anywhere. Adult birds to not need a nest to lay their heads. The sleep on a branch, standing up."
I realized that when you actually observe them in nature, foxes and birds are models of freedom from holes and nests. When they come of age, they leave and do not look back. That actually fits the biblical context better. Jesus is calling disciples to follow him, to go out without money, food, shoes, staff and follow the leading of the spirit. He is calling them to "let the dead bury the dead," that is to leave their families of origin. In that, the bird that is old enough to leave the nest and be independent from parents, the fox that is old enough to leave the den, and go out on its own is a role model.
In that reading of the text in light of the book of nature, it would have made more sense for Jesus to say: "Foxes, when they are of age, no longer need a den, birds, when they are of age, fly away from the nest; likewise, the Son of Man needs no set place to lay his head."
In that reading, the homeless Jesus is not so pathetic, he is resourceful the grown-up fox and bird. He NEEDS no set place to lay his head. He is a spirit creature on the move, free, liberated. |
Edited by - bewell on Aug 12 2011 11:55:08 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 15 2011 : 12:14:06 AM
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Hi Bewell :)
I've been reading "Stages of Meditation" by the Dalai Lama.
In it he says:
quote:
All sentient beings desire happiness and do not desire misery. Think deeply about how, in this beginningless cycle of existence, there is not one sentient being who has not been my friend and relative hundreds of times. Therefore, since there is no ground for being attached to some and hating others, I shall develop a mind of equanimity toward all sentient beings. Begin the meditation on equanimity by thinking of a neutral person, and then consider people who are friends and foes.
And Kamalashila said:
quote:
Then having seen all sentient beings as equal, with no differences between then, you should meditate on sentient beings to whom you are indifferent. When the compassion you feel toward them is the same as the compassion you feel toward your friends and relatives, meditate on compassion for all sentient beings throughout the ten directions of the universe.
I think the general message is to treat everyone the same, no preferences, no aversions.
We have all been someone's brother, mother, father sister, intelligent person, not so intelligent person, murderer, saint etc.. Therefore, there is no reason to incur bad karma by clinging to some and averting others..
:)
TI
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