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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 09:57:21 AM
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Hi TI:
Any or all of the variations in experience (and mantra) you mentioned above are fine. The particulars are not important. What is important is the intention.
If the intention is to favor the mantra when we realize we are off it, and allow it to go however it will (patterns do not matter), then this will lead to losing (refinement) of the mantra, which is the cultivation of inner silence. This is the process we keep repeating easily for the allotted time of our meditation session.
If the intention is to analyze, control, question, modify, report, etc., this will not be meditation. And it will not matter what system of meditation we may be following. All meditation procedures involve systematically going beyond the object, whether it be mantra, breath, nada, vision, sensation, concept, or whatever.
It is dharana (attention on an object), becoming dhyana (natural dissolving of the object), becoming samadhi (absorption in inner silence). These are the last three limbs of the eight limbs of yoga, which gives an indication of how important this process is in the overall scheme of yoga. Samyama also utilizes these three limbs, in a different way.
Obviously, choosing and sticking with a method of meditation is important. We can't cross the vast ocean of samsara (impurity/illusion) in two or more boats at the same time. It is all about developing and maintaining consistency in practice over time.
This is the only question we need to be asking ourselves about meditation: "Am I in a consistent practice with a proven method?" All the rest is diversion.
We can never, ever, ever! put it in a mental bottle. Meditation is about emptying the bottle, and dissolving the bottle. So all this talk is not very relevant - only to get rid of doubts about the simplicity of sitting down and doing it every day. That's all. If it is going to keep going in endless circles of mental analysis, etc., don't expect any serious meditator to take that ride with you for long. It is not about creating complexity. It is about releasing into simplicity. Meditation is for that.
The guru is in you.
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 11:01:47 AM
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TI,
Yogani is saying, let go the mantra in inner silence. So let go.
Adamant |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 4:54:48 PM
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| When I first started with mantra meditation I said in my head "IAM" while moving my lips a little, I couldn't do it any other way, it doesn't matter. it still worked. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 9:44:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.
Hi TI
Maybe its related or not releated with you, the following story came to my mind:
...Ramakrishna would sit with his eyes closed and he would soon be feeling very blissful. Totapuri asked him what was happening? He said he was seeing the mother goddess. Totapuri would not accept this as defeat. He said that if Ramakrishna was seeing the goddess Kali, what was there in it to be so overjoyed about? "All this is imagination -- this mother and this goddess -- all this is your own projection."
Ramakrishna said, "It might be so, but it is immensely blissful." Totapuri said that if he wanted to remain satisfied with this bliss he would never know the ultimate bliss. Ramakrishna then asked him what he should do. Totapuri suggested that there was a method: "When you begin to see Kali, immediately take a sword and cut her into two pieces." Ramakrishna asked from where he would get a sword...
You can read further here: http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat15.htm
Ramakrishna came to know the real SAMADHI only in the last days of his life, through a mystic, Totapuri. Totapuri helped him to get out of this third state and to enter the fourth.
...
Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.
You know, I did some quick research about that story by Osho and I wonder where he got it from. According to this excerpt from the Wiki, Totapuri helped Ramakrishna enter nirvikalpa samadhi, but did not succeed in killing Kali. For, if he had truly killed Kali, how could Mother Kali instruct Ramakrishna to "remain in Bhavamukha; for the enlightenment of the people"?
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna
quote:
Totapuri and Vedanta
The Panchavati and the hut where Ramakrishna performed his advaitic sadhana. The mud hut has been replaced by a brick one.In 1865, Ramakrishna was initiated into sannyasa by Tota Puri, an itinerant monk who trained Ramakrishna in Advaita Vedanta , the Hindu philosophy which emphasizes non-dualism.[61][62]
Totapuri first guided Ramakrishna through the rites of sannyasa—renunciation of all ties to the world. Then he instructed him in the teaching of advaita—that "Brahman alone is real, and the world is illusory; I have no separate existence; I am that Brahman alone."[63] Under the guidance of Totapuri, Ramakrishna reportedly experienced nirvikalpa samadhi, which is considered to be the highest state in spiritual realisation.[64]
Totapuri stayed with Ramakrishna for nearly eleven months and instructed him further in the teachings of advaita. After the departure of Totapuri, Ramakrishna reportedly remained for six months in a state of absolute contemplation.[65] Ramakrishna said that this period of nirvikalpa samadhi came to an end when he received a command from the Mother Kali to "remain in Bhavamukha; for the enlightenment of the people". Bhavamukha being a state of existence intermediate between samâdhi and normal consciousness.[66]
Further, I disagree with Osho's statement (later in that article) that:
quote:
Kali too is imagination within. An ecstatic dream, but imagination. It is one's own mental projection, it is one's own feelings that have taken a form; it is one's own desires, one's own colors that one has spread within. Kali standing within him and Ramakrishna lying at her feet also within himself... interestingly enough all that is Ramakrishna's own imagined feelings.
Kali is not an imaginary construction that was a product of Ramakrishna's own imagined feelings. Kali is a well documented Hindu Goddess. Within the mystery of unity concsciousness, all things or forms exist within the atman, and perhaps any imagined being becomes a common thought form in the mental plane, and if you really stretch that, I supposed you might allude to that thought form as imaginary. However, if one extends Osho's 'story' to the logical conclusion, is Osho saying that all Hindu Gods and Goddesses are imaginary? How can that be? Once again, I find Osho's creative imagination misinforming and misleading. However, it was entertaining. :)
I can appreciate the thread in Osho's story about not becoming fixated or settling in any particular blissful phase. One must keep progressing and never stop until he/she reaches the final goal. I agree.
When you said "All the chanting of mantras is nothing but an effort to create suspension of awareness.", did you mean perhaps that it is the suspension of consciousness, because as far as I can tell, awareness is everlasting, all pervading and omnipresent therefore it cannot be suspended..
And again, there is another use for mantra repetition. For example, you can activate chakras by "OM'ing" in or at them. This is a Kriya Yoga technique. You can also "AUM" or "OM" your way up and down the sushumna in variations of spinal breathing. It's kind of like using Ajax! Mantra repetition can be a method of focusing prana so it has to be used with care lest you be visiting the self pacing booth to repent and recover.. :)
I hope my being a stickler for detail isn't going to be construed as being negative or destructive. I do appreciate your communications, it's just that I like things to be accurate.
Anyway, thanks again for you input.
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 10:39:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7
I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so
Hi Michael,
Why? Why not simply continue practice with the mantra. If someone were to be changing their meditation object every time inner lights or sounds appear, they could end up in the state of confusion that TI has got himself into, no?
Christi
Hi Christi :)
I am not in a state of confusion caused by changing my meditation object as you have implied. :) My quandry is that I used to believe that inner silence was black, had no sound or light in it and resembled a dead zone in which there was no awareness at all, and the only way to discern whether or not one had been there was upon returning from that state, through recollection or memory. But now I believe that inner silence may contain light.
I recall reading a post of yours where you say that inner silence is the space around the thoughts and the mantra. While it is a workable definition (one with which Tolle would agree), because I can imagine all thoughts eventually disolving leaving only the space, it doesn't support my idea that inner silence has a definite doorway or entry point, a transition through which is not gradual but more like being quickly sucked through a black hole and popping into it. Or then again, maybe what I thought was my first few experiences of inner silence was an event of momentarily falling asleep and losing consciousness..
Further with your definition of inner silence, I can well imagine that there could be light, divine or otherwise, but I could not imagine the light dissolving into space or being.. You see, I really have idea what inner silence is. :)
The other thing I would mention is this. While I do believe that mantra repetition is one method that works, there are other methods of spiritual training that rely on variation. There are several reasons for this.
- By varying the objects of meditation, new insights are learned.
- There is a teaching that once the student learns a particular lesson, the lesson is learnt and one moves on to the next step.
- It has been said that one must train the awareness not to attach to anything, hence, one could view any persistent practice as some form of attachment.
- By varying the objects of meditation, one learns to distill the practice from the experience.
- Once the control of awareness is realized by practicing on simple objects, one can use that training to apply it to progressively finer and more difficult objects, such as focusing on "Who am I" or "awareness watching awareness". Also, refer to Patanjali's Samyama practices..
There is also a post I read about where one learns to manipulate one's awareness to enter and then withdraw from the many levels of jhana. Here is a link where that particular technique is being used:
link: http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.c...dy%3A+Monica
quote:
3. Master the four rupa (immaterial) and arupa (immaterial) jhanas, because they are part and parcel of completing the circuit and because they are fun and interesting, and because knowing them inside-out will help you talk to your students about them.
...
2. As a starting place, let's work on the four parameters for mastery of jhana.
I. Adverting to (looking at) the jhana.
II. Entering the jhana.
III. Abiding in the jhana.
IV. Exiting the jhana.
Make a resolution to go to where the jhana lives in the mind. I think of this as a stratum of mind, or like a color of a rainbow (without the color), but you can think of it as a room, or an aspect of heaven, or you can just go directly there without the conceptual baggage. Hang out there but don't enter the jhana; it's as though you are standing outside a room looking in. This is adverting. Notice that you can zip around and advert to any jhana in any order without necessarily entering it. This is access consciousness and it is very flexible. From here you can do dry vipassana or enter jhana. By the way, the dry vipassana approach involves adverting to jhanas and exploring them via vipassana as they arise, but not entering them.
Here is a small excerpt from the practitioner's report:
quote:
Resolution to advert to all 8 jhanas. Easy and when got to 8 decided it would be good idea to go backwards this time. Turned out to be a great idea!
Jhana 8 yes/no in/out
Jhana 7 blank! need for subtle wiping away of thoughts--presence felt
Jhana 6 ITS TRUE --THE WITNESS IS BOUNDLESS! like the waves of the ocean--a tad trite in the writing but not in the experiencing--7 minutes just within THAT! HOME!
Jhana 5 picking up some boundaries here--boundless but harder to do in some way
Jhana 4 narrowing into "life here" more--witness is just the whole barnyard and its OK
Jhana 3 I am watching in a little world of local time/space/senses
Jhana 2 Just the witness of "her" world--with its impermanence, suffering and sensing of a seperate sense of self to not. Deep sense of compassion also noticed as part of the witness.
Jhana 1 The balance and advice to "do not absorb into your own world or thoughts--stay present and absorb into witness! A sensing that this may be the strata of mind to keep as nearby as possible throughout the day in order to keep the balance.
Granted, simply repeating the mantra and entering stillness is by far the simplest, easiest method compared to learning all the different jhanas and then jumping in and out of them. I'm just mentioning all of this because I guess I like pointing out that for every idea there seems to be an opposite and equally valid idea, or even better, there is a plethora of variations of spiritual teachings!
I think it is important to find something that works.
Today, I was reading an Oprah interview with Thich Jhat Hanh and it said this:
link: http://www.oprah.com/spirit/Oprah-T...-Nhat-Hanh/8
quote:
Nhat Hanh: I know that we do not know enough. We have to continue to learn. We have to be open. And we have to be ready to release our knowledge in order to come to a higher understanding of reality. When you climb a ladder and arrive on the sixth step and you think that is the highest, then you cannot come to the seventh. So the technique is to abandon the sixth in order for the seventh step to be possible. And this is our practice, to release our views. The practice of nonattachment to views is at the heart of the Buddhist practice of meditation. People suffer because they are caught in their views. As soon as we release those views, we are free and we don't suffer anymore.
That sounded so nice. To not have any views! Nothing to dispute, no arguments, no clarifications or interpretations of definitions..
Christi, I hope you are doing well. I appreciate the communications..
:)
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 10:51:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
TI,
Yogani is saying, let go the mantra in inner silence. So let go.
Adamant
Hi Adamant :)
Thanks for your comment.
Thought I'd mention.. I finished the "Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe. What really stuck out is that the crown's drops are referred to as kundalini drops, the implication being that kundalini can be a top-down event too..
The other thing that kind of got me is where he says to begin with you should only practice sparingly, just 5 or 6 times a day, for 1 1/2 hours at most for each sitting!
I think for serious practice it would be wise to have a teacher, as is recommended in the book. I did think it was very interesting to read about how the fire, when brought up the sushumna, melts the drops. This is something I've read about before in other books.
Overall I thought it is a very interesting book and I really liked the simple way in which it is written. Thanks again for pointing that book out.
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 11:16:48 PM
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Hi Ananda :)
Thank you for your comments. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
...
(and the honey like light are always present to some subtle extent)
...
"Play of Consciousness" is an interesting book. Yes, Muktananda's passions did seem to be to travel the higher planes. Have you ever read "This House is on Fire" about Dhyanyogi? link: http://www.dyc.org/
Yes, many gurus have different instructions. There is one body of teachings that says that you should play in the golden light until it forms an arc above your head and turns bright white. That is how to realize the divine light above the head.. To other gurus, perhaps this is just scenery and serves no true purpose, or is unneccessary - merely a distraction. I guess the only way to know is to become enlightened, yet, that doesn't seem to help much either as many gurus who claim to be enlightened have differing instructions and methods..
quote:
but in general if you'd ask me to choose between scenery and everlasting still peace; the answer is simple i'd choose peace of mind with folded eyes .
namaste
You know, when I was a kid I would have chosen the scenery. I've always wanted to astral travel, to go to other planes, to fly anywhere and see everything. I've always wanted to levitate, to become invisible and be truly free. I wanted to learn all the mysteries of the spiritual teachings. I still have that desire to learn as much as possible about existence and the mystery of life. I do admit, the novelty of visiting the other planes has worn off to some degree, and now I'm trying to condition myself to view these occurences with enough equanimity to conquer my excitement and disruptive emotions. Having a base of everlasting still peace sure does seem appealing..
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 11:26:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7
I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so
Hi Michaelangelo :)
Thank you for your comments.
Your last statement made me stop and reflect. I realize that there are many different teachings and approaches to spirituality, but your statement reminded me of Patanjali's Yogasutras and his practice of performing samyama on various things. This is a well-known documented practice out of which many other practices have grown.
Perhaps the biggest and best would be to perform Patanjali's samyama on God because the result of the merging (when subject and object become one) would probably be the ultimate.
:)
TI |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 12:48:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
it's just that I like things to be accurate.
hahaha |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 02:13:10 AM
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Brother TI, yes i took a look on that book and read a few parts... really liked the guy and his teacher.
much love to you(f) |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4516 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 05:51:51 AM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Granted, simply repeating the mantra and entering stillness is by far the simplest, easiest method compared to learning all the different jhanas and then jumping in and out of them. I'm just mentioning all of this because I guess I like pointing out that for every idea there seems to be an opposite and equally valid idea, or even better, there is a plethora of variations of spiritual teachings!
That's what can cause so much confusion. 
quote:
I recall reading a post of yours where you say that inner silence is the space around the thoughts and the mantra. While it is a workable definition (one with which Tolle would agree), because I can imagine all thoughts eventually disolving leaving only the space, it doesn't support my idea that inner silence has a definite doorway or entry point, a transition through which is not gradual but more like being quickly sucked through a black hole and popping into it. Or then again, maybe what I thought was my first few experiences of inner silence was an event of momentarily falling asleep and losing consciousness..
Further with your definition of inner silence, I can well imagine that there could be light, divine or otherwise, but I could not imagine the light dissolving into space or being.. You see, I really have idea what inner silence is. :)
Inner silence doesn't have anything to do with light or darkness. Silence is the absence of sound. Inner silence is silent, simple as that. Within silence, anything can arise, or not. There can be light, darkness, sounds, form, absence of form. Everything that arises, arises from silence, and disolves into silence. It is the ground of all being.
If you are looking for black holes to be sucked through, so you can pop out the other side, then you may miss the silence.
Christi |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2010 : 11:05:34 PM
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Hi
This is an update.
After my discussion with Yogani about inner silence, I went back to simple mantra repetition, mentally thinking "I AM", not stretching it out or playing with it. I even dropped all pranayama and went to a routine of deep meditation, 35 mins, three times a day.
What happens to me is as the day wears on, for the second and third meditations, after a few minutes I am immersed in a sea of visions/thoughts/threads. Everywhere I look internally, there is some kind of lighted stream or filament of color that, if I follow it, leads to a vision or dream or some kind of scene. I notice this and return to the mantra but the mantra is very small and does not last long. When I extricate myself from one thread, there is another thread that grabs my attention. It is like jumping from one strand in the spider's web only to get caught in another.
When I think the mantra, it is as if a clear pool is disturbed for a second and then becomes clear again, but on the other side of the pool and surrounding everything everywhere, there are these strings of colorful light like mutliple spider webs that, even if I focus on one strand just for an instant, turns into a person, place, scene or other form. This has been going on for weeks. I've been trying to ignore the visions hoping to break through to inner silence but it's starting to bother me.
I don't know what to do about it. It doesn't feel like deep silence although for a while it was quiet. There was no little voice in my head that usually speaks to me. As a matter of fact, during today's meditation, I started hearing voices in a foreign language accompanying the visions. I am troubled about this. I don't think I am meditating and I am at a loss as to what is happening. Are these threads of light that contain visions/pictures/scenes thoughts or memories or astral scenes? Perhaps a combination of all three? What should I do about it?
I can't seem to focus anywhere or shut off my inner sight so that I don't see the threads. Eyes up, eyes straight ahead or down. No difference.
Is this a phase that you go through after meditating regularily for 3 years? How do I get through it? Are you supposed to get through it? Does it ever go away? Have you ever experienced this (to anyone who may read this)?
It gets worse...
After a month or so of no pranayama, I decided to add back breath of fire and spinal breathing to my routine. I noticed that the ecstatic conductivity has lessened to some degree and I guess I bought the story that you are supposed to mix energetics with deep silence.
After about a week of going from root to brow, I decided to try going from root to the star above the head for a few sessions to see what would happen. Last week I did a form of spinal breathing where I visualized liquid light coming up from the root and liquid light coming down from the star as I traced the sushumna. It was a good effort and I believe I succeeded at getting the light to flow both ways as I could see the columns of light moving internally. That was during the morning meditation.
During the afternoon meditation this is what happened:
I closed my eyes and immediately found myself in a greenish space where the sense of "I" seemed very powerful and in control. Then I found myself in the luminous tube of the sushumna surrounded by space again. It seemed to be a layer of consciousness and I found that I could move in and out of it. So, I moved back to the body and did my routine. When I hit the deep meditation part, my body dissolved and I became a mixture of hot orange red flames and cool blue flames. My heart became a large white sun. The hot and cold flames ran up and down the spine and I felt like a field of flaming hot and cold vapours. I think my body was shaking and it was definately breaking out in a hot and cold sweat. In this state a managed to ignore the symptoms and did mantra repetition for about 15 minutes until I decided to shut it all down. Afterwards I felt like I had released a major blockage of some sort and felt quite relieved.
Later that afternoon I got into the elevator and something popped in my head. I thought I was having a stroke. The top half of my right eye could not see anymore, or rather, it looked like someone had pulled a shade over it. I thought perhaps that my retina had detached but then I also noticed that a part of me was splitting out of the body. The effect lasted for about five minutes and then I was back to normal.
The next day, twice during the day at the office, something popped in my head and then it was like the etheric body was splitting out from the body. I was watching an etheric body or silver white figure of light splitting off from the body and moving to the left. I was confused as to which one I was. Was I the body or the silver figure? Which one should I inhabit? Then I realized that "I" was watching the two splitting apart. It was like a dream and it reminded me of the time I split into four "beings" during my shaktipat initiation.
This morning when I got to work (after spending a lot of time alone in the bush hiking for the weekend to try to clear myself and ground) I sat at my desk and there manifested a moving clear white light in the lower left corners of my visual range. When closing my eyes, it looked like bright white light was breaking through my visual arena. But the light was moving like water or a mirage. This effect went away after about 5 minutes.
Now when I meditate, I see (with closed eyes) a vaporous film that throbs in correspondence with my pulse. I also see another rounded vaporous film that looks like I'm encased in a translucent bubble and this one expands and contracts along with my breathing. My inner body looks like a fine mist of smoke that is always moving, sometimes to the left, sometimes up and down. Actually, now I'm wondering how to stop all these things from moving about as I don't think the movement is deep silence. How does one go about stopping all of this phenomenon? I'm thinking that there is a buddhist technique of dissolving the winds into the central channel that I'll have to study about again.
I'm also wondering if these latest experiences are a result of some instability brought about by bringing the light up and down from root to the star above the head during spinal breathing. Or perhaps these are the baby steps in learning how to disassemble the assemblage point ala Casteneda? Or maybe I'm just going crazy.
For some reason I felt I had to write about it.
Perhaps someone can tell me what stage of development I'm at or what exactly is happening to me. Ask your inner silence about these experiences. Does it come up with any answers?
Thanks.
:)
TI
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yogani
USA
5247 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2010 : 4:25:15 PM
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Hi TI:
Your experiences are not so unusual. What seems unusual is the tendency to analyze during practice, which can become an obstruction if favored. Therefore, when analysis comes, just ease back to the mantra. That's all that is necessary. It is not a focusing. It is a gentle favoring when we notice we are off into something else. It does not matter what that something else is.
I am sure a "Buddhist map" can tell you exactly where you are with experiences in the overall scheme of things, usually at the expense of continuing progress. Figuring out where we are has absolutely nothing to do with our spiritual progress, and, in fact, can arrest our progress in "analysis paralysis."
Both Buddhists and yogis in the know will tell you the same thing: Keep practicing with consistency, favoring the procedure of your practice over the scenery along the way. This is not a guarantee of consistent experiences of any kind during practice. It will, however, guarantee your progress.
Anything can happen in practice, with thoughts, visions, lights, sounds, and all the rest. The mantra can be big, small, loud, soft, flat, shimmering, clear, fuzzy, irritating, ecstatic, anything. And, yes, it can go on for days, weeks, or months in a particular mode, until purification and opening lead us into more realms of inner stuff that are purifying and opening. None of it matters in relation to the procedure of meditation.
What matters is how we are feeling during the day. Are we more relaxed, energetic, creative, loving, finding more synergies occurring naturally in our life's journey? These are the things that indicate that our practice is working. This is where practices pay off, not in what happens while we are sitting in meditation.
The only reason to discuss experiences that occur in meditation is to coax practitioners back to application of the procedure, and to boost confidence to proceed with consistency. Other than that, there isn't any reason to discuss the scenery. It is yours, and you can enjoy it if you like. Whatever is there is there until it isn't anymore, and there is no point in fretting about anything being there or not being there.
It is your practice. It is suggested to continue with it and see what is happening outside practice in ordinary living. If you keep doing the practice according to procedure, forget about the internals of it, and go out and live fully, the results will be there.
It is your path and your choice. Carry on!
The guru is in you.
PS: Yes, crown practices, taken to excess, can lead to instabilities. That's old news around here.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 08:24:33 AM
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| And deep mediation 35 min x 3 times/day also sounds a bit exaggerated... I think I would fly off into beams of light with that amount as well! Max 20 min x 2 times a day is the normal amount. And many of us are on even less magnitude... |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 9:28:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi TI:
Your experiences are not so unusual. What seems unusual is the tendency to analyze during practice, which can become an obstruction if favored. Therefore, when analysis comes, just ease back to the mantra. That's all that is necessary. It is not a focusing. It is a gentle favoring when we notice we are off into something else. It does not matter what that something else is.
I am sure a "Buddhist map" can tell you exactly where you are with experiences in the overall scheme of things, usually at the expense of continuing progress. Figuring out where we are has absolutely nothing to do with our spiritual progress, and, in fact, can arrest our progress in "analysis paralysis."
Both Buddhists and yogis in the know will tell you the same thing: Keep practicing with consistency, favoring the procedure of your practice over the scenery along the way. This is not a guarantee of consistent experiences of any kind during practice. It will, however, guarantee your progress.
Anything can happen in practice, with thoughts, visions, lights, sounds, and all the rest. The mantra can be big, small, loud, soft, flat, shimmering, clear, fuzzy, irritating, ecstatic, anything. And, yes, it can go on for days, weeks, or months in a particular mode, until purification and opening lead us into more realms of inner stuff that are purifying and opening. None of it matters in relation to the procedure of meditation.
What matters is how we are feeling during the day. Are we more relaxed, energetic, creative, loving, finding more synergies occurring naturally in our life's journey? These are the things that indicate that our practice is working. This is where practices pay off, not in what happens while we are sitting in meditation.
The only reason to discuss experiences that occur in meditation is to coax practitioners back to application of the procedure, and to boost confidence to proceed with consistency. Other than that, there isn't any reason to discuss the scenery. It is yours, and you can enjoy it if you like. Whatever is there is there until it isn't anymore, and there is no point in fretting about anything being there or not being there.
It is your practice. It is suggested to continue with it and see what is happening outside practice in ordinary living. If you keep doing the practice according to procedure, forget about the internals of it, and go out and live fully, the results will be there.
It is your path and your choice. Carry on!
The guru is in you.
PS: Yes, crown practices, taken to excess, can lead to instabilities. That's old news around here.
Hi Yogani :)
Thank you very much for your response. I think you have given me good advice and it is comforting to know that my experiences aren't unusual.
I do not try to analyze what is occuring during meditation, I try to hold to the same procedure and focus on the mantra. It's just that sometimes towards the end of the meditation I start thinking to myself that "this isn't meditation", "why am I seeing so many sticky visions and phenomenon" and I wonder if I should turn up the effort and concentration because if I relax too much then I get pulled into the phenomenon and it feels like I get caught in the dream or essence of the phenomenon. It is after the meditation that I do the analysis.
Like, after today's afternoon meditation, just before the end, I started pulling out and it is then that I realized that even though I was ignoring many visions and still capable of thinking, I was returning from a very deep place. And that place is kind of addicting.
Basically, I referred to the Buddhist inquiry because my guess is that the silver-white mists that I see are perhaps called winds and I have heard of dissolving the winds in the central channel. Perhaps I am moving too much during meditation or I need a new level of stability. Or perhaps I'm letting the visions bother me and the emotions are stirring things up. I don't know. Perhaps letting it be is the best advice and maybe to not try so hard.
No matter, I will persist with the routine. I have been stable for the last two days, that is, I haven't separated from my body during the day during non-meditation times nor have I seen any alarming visual eye phenomenon. It is nice to realize more meaning in the phrase "crown practices may lead to instabilities".
Thanks again for your response and persistence.
:)
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Apr 21 2010 : 9:45:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
And deep mediation 35 min x 3 times/day also sounds a bit exaggerated... I think I would fly off into beams of light with that amount as well! Max 20 min x 2 times a day is the normal amount. And many of us are on even less magnitude...
Hi emc :)
I agree with you that 3 x a day sounds excessive and would be for many people on this forum. I'm not that sensitive nor is my kundalini as active as many others' on this forum, judging from their posts. But on the bright side, I pray for you 3 x a day! :)
The thing that I have found is that as the day wears on, my mind becomes easier to tame and that after the third meditation I often end up in a state that is serene, blissful and pure enjoyment. I really like spending the rest of the night after the evening meditation just sitting in my lazy boy and bathing in the effect. :)
Thought I'd mention, I'm glad you haven't left the forum. I have really appreciated all your posts. You have given me insight into the feminine essence like nobody else has and I hope you will continue to share your life in the years to come.
:)
TI |
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 02:52:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi :)
After the meditation, after contemplating what I had just witnessed, I started to realize that I was overloaded big time. The whole top of my head was gone. Like someone had taken a giant spoon and scooped out the top of my head and brain... a spacious vacuum like a funnel shaped hole, about five inches at the top narrowing down to the center of the head.
When I tried to focus on the top of my skull, all I could feel was this big hole opening up into space. I also felt numb and stupefied. Like someone had clubbed me and left me dazed.
This feeling, the numbness, the space, no more top half of the head persisted for over seven days!!! It's a wonder I even got through the work week! Only today, nine days later, do I feel like I have a top half of the head and that I'm coming out of zombie land. Is this what is meant by premature crown opening?
No..is not TI..imagine how I feel with no head and no body also 24/7??..you should have trusted the process.The true sahasrara opening feels like that..thank god you haven't disappeared in a light,like me...that would have scared you much more then the half top of head..just move the energy down with attention,and make the body empty...but most of all..you must let go and trust the process.
Much love to you..
Kisses:)
love,danny
http://kriptodanny.blogspot.com/201...hin-you.html
Lead me from dreaming to waking.
Lead me from opacity to clarity.
Lead me from the complicated to the simple.
Lead me from the obscure to the obvious.
Lead me from intention to attention.
Lead me from what I'm told I am to what I see I am.
Lead me from confrontation to wide openness.
Lead me to the place I never left,
Where there is peace, and peace
- The Upanishads |
Edited by - Smileyogi on Apr 28 2010 04:05:22 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2010 : 11:43:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Smileyogi
No..is not TI..imagine how I feel with no head and no body also 24/7??..you should have trusted the process.The true sahasrara opening feels like that..thank god you haven't disappeared in a light,like me...that would have scared you much more then the half top of head..just move the energy down with attention,and make the body empty...but most of all..you must let go and trust the process.
Much love to you..
Kisses:)
love,danny
...
Hi Danny :)
It is interesting that you say that that was a true sahasrara opening. It was a very intense experience and it did take a long time to get over it and realize that I wasn't just playing with tiddly winks.
However, I'm kind of confused by your statement that I should have trusted the process. The practice that I had been doing at the time of that experience was a form of Kriya Yoga spinal breathing in which you bring the light down from star/sun above the head and then after that practice, a meditation which consists of moving your point of view to the brahman cave and focusing your sight towards the third eye. Then, you ask that the Divine Mother and Father reveal themselves to you and wait and look. The funnel that opened at the top of the head after was a direct result of that session.
What do you mean by trust the process? Are you saying that I should have stuck to that specific practice (which is a Norman Paulsen practice, disciple of Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi, revealed in his Sacred Science book)?
I hadn't realized that you can bring the space or hole that opened up at the top of the head down into the body. I didn't think you could really do anything with it except just kind of observe it. I am under the impression that we can direct energy through intent, but not space..
And, you are right. Although I have experienced becoming a hollow tube of fine filaments of light hanging in a vast empty space (which I believe is the expansion of the sushumna) and I've experienced some occasions when this phenomenon has since manifested sporadically, I've never gone into the light. (Or maybe I have but I always only pick up the 'returning from the light' as a memory, never what happens when and if I was actually in the light). Have you written about your experience of disappearing in the light anywhere?
Actually, I have another question if you don't mind. In other posts you have said that you are a mahayogi and have insinuated that you can see future events and perhaps possess some minor siddis. What is your lineage? Who is your guru? What were or are your practices?
:)
TI
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2010 : 04:04:50 AM
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quote:
from Tibetan Ice
Hi Danny :)
It is interesting that you say that that was a true sahasrara opening. It was a very intense experience and it did take a long time to get over it and realize that I wasn't just playing with tiddly winks.
The true sahasrara opening feels like your head explodes..and nothing remains,but a big vortex of sucking suction..really..with a big flowing wind/space/cool sensations.I had that many years ago.
Is like a huge vacuum sucking your brains out...nothing of your head will remain.Thoughts stop,and you are in awe,and say..what happened,,..but you can't even speak,or think.Your biggest mistake you made,TI...is that you haven't trusted the shakti in you,and you were AFRAID..you should have stayed with it(with attention on vaccum)
Prayer helps at that moment ,like ,,please purify me,,.forget the ,,I am,, this is beyond it.
There is a point where you must trust the process,but the ego whom got you so far got in the way,and you called the process ,,bad,,see what I mean?..you've called the process ,,premature,,..when it was the real deal.There is a point where you must forgive(let go,as Jesus said) everything,even the technique...because something else would purify you...the shakti within you.But you must trust the process,and not imagine is some,,premature sahasrara awakening,,.I said trust the experience you were into.I've been there.
And I posted in http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....age=16#66210about my rainbow body.I also dedublated my body(not astral,but in flesh) at one time when I wanted to visit my father,the problem was he was so scared and called the tv station,and they made a ,,paranormal,, tape about it.Actually all the powers are based on the mind level.Concentration is the key.Everybody has them...some are aware,some not,since most people do it not conscious about.The idea is not to confuse the cause with the effect,since you are not your body,your emotions,or your consciousness..believe it or not...in the same time,from this pure clear awareness the whole creation emerges in order to know itself.You are god knowing itself thru experiences..that's all.Knowledge of that grants you immortality.Don't make things too complicated.
Find the bliss..became the bliss.
quote:
Actually, I have another question if you don't mind. In other posts you have said that you are a mahayogi and have insinuated that you can see future events and perhaps possess some minor siddis. What is your lineage? Who is your guru? What were or are your practices?
:)
TI
The mahayogi quote I use when I want to make a point that I have lots of experience..so maybe they listen to me...it is a joke,yet it is not..depending on whom is reading...Again,siddhis are a factor of consciousness,or manifestations of something we are already,but we don't recognize it,due to the process of individualization,or the great mystery of creation itself.
Do not confuse the source with the effects.
If you visit my blog,you know what my practices are(if any).You could say I am a sahaja yogi,(but a buddhist and others in the same time)but not part of the organization,and actually I am disappointed that a simple shakti energy transfer was interpreted as a cult for Shri Mataji...sad story indeed.Story of all the cults.But the transfer is real,and that what it counts in the end,isn't it?
In any case,I post a link to one yogini I cared about,and she died exactly when I predicted,and I could do nothing about it.
Seeing the future is not always fun........because you see the pain of others..stick with the present.
Much love to you,TI..live long and prosper:)
Danny
....(quotes from my blog)
My Beloved
My peace, O my brothers and sisters, is my solitude,
And my Beloved is with me always,
For His love I can find no substitute,
And His love is the test for me among mortal beings,
Whenever His Beauty I may contemplate,
He is my "mihrab", towards Him is my "qiblah"
If I die of love, before completing satisfaction,
Alas, for my anxiety in the world, alas for my distress,
O Healer (of souls) the heart feeds upon its desire,
The striving after union with Thee has healed my soul,
O my Joy and my Life abidingly,
You were the source of my life and from Thee also came my ecstasy.
I have separated myself from all created beings,
My hope is for union with Thee, for that is the goal of my desire...
Rabia al Basri 717-801..
http://kriptodanny.blogspot.com/200...r-named.html
Beautiful explaining from Sharmila(very candid..and true..this photo she sent to me couple weeks before her death,since I knew she was done,and I needed a photo,but couldn't tell her)
Hi !
to whom it may concern... I would like to share with you the most wonderful thing that happened into my life... " self realization"... self realization ... what's this.. ? This ? a so simple thing..
I am sure that you certainly have been told about " chakras " ? No...
Oh come on really no ?
Well the chakras are wheels of energy that circulate inside of us .. As you know... that you know.. we have different " bodies ", the etheric one, the physical one, etcc... 7 all together ... But the most interesting one is the " subtile body".
A subtil body ???? What's that.. ok I'll explain.
In science we know that we have the left sympathetic channel which governs the right balloon of the "ego" the right brain .. Ok ? this channel is our feminine aspect or the lunar channel and also the channel of desires, the blue channel..
Then the right channel, the masculin aspect in us, the solar channel which ends at our left side brain and becomes " the super ego "This channel of a yellow color is the one of our projections, our actions.
In psychology we call those channels the " Moi" and the "sur Moi ", and how about the wonderful central channel, ( called by the hindus , the sushumna nadi ) the parasympathetic central channel which governs all our autonomous system , like breathing, blood circulation, and heart-beats ...
This channel is not an utopia it really exist and can be seen with laser radiography, I saw my own, and all the chakras attached to it .
Humanity travels unconsciously from a channel to another one, without " resting" a while in the center..
Let me tell you when we desire something we do an action corresponding to that thing to be realized or achieved or done..
We desire with the left and we act with the right. For exemple, I desired to share my experience with you, ( left channel ), now I am in the right channel writing these lines.
I'm sure you understand all this.
Supposing I wish to share something important.. Instead of just jumping on my computer to write... I stop a while, close my eyes.. ask the help of my central channel to be able to find the judicious words to touch people..It's what I did before writing.
It means that I rested a while ( 10 mn ) by resting in the sushumna nadhi, I got connected to The Primordial Energy which resides in our bone " the sacrum ", in the pelvic area., the energy flows, my chakras who are on Her way, get enlightened .
The result of that is that now I' am really " inspired " to find the right words to express my self. You will ask why touching people? because despite of my numberless defects , I like people.. that's why my job before I retired was " airlines stewardess", I have flown thirty years at Sabena airlines ( now SN ) caring for people, serving them,sharing smiles and the joy that I always had in my heart..
Now I'm retired of course, and I still have this urge to help others.. sorry It's my profound nature.
A french saying quote " when I know the people, I love more the animals..
I say " I love people and.... I also love the animals.".
So as I love all of you , whatever you are, jew, or black, or white, or red, or yellow,or muslims, or hindus, or catholic, or protestant, or budhist or young, or old, or fat, or skinny , or tall or short.. Please, Please come and sit down....
First read this carefully and try to experience the same thing I did 20 years ago, the experience of " self realization ". Ok
Sit down feet on the ground , well apart and no shoes ( stockings ok ), no glasses if you are wearing some., both hands, palms up, on your knees and close your eyes...
Put your right hand on your heart and ask yourself this question 3 times : " am I the spirit " ?
Then put your right hand on the upper left side of your stomack and ask 3 times :" am I my own
guide " ?
Then hand on the lower left side of your abdomen and ask 3 times : " can I have the pure knowledge" ?
Then without thinking keep your right hand there and make those affirmations ( as your energy will start to move ) ...Yes I have the pure knowledge !
Hand up on the upper left side of your stomach : YES I am my own guide.
Hand on your heart : " Yes I am the spirit, I am a part and parcel of the whole "
Then always your right on the left side of your neck head turned to the right and , say with full confidence without thinking: " I am not guilty.."
Then your right hand on your forehead ,head band downwards and say : I forgive, and I am forgiven!
Then , always your right hand behind your neck ( lower part of your head ) head reversed a little at the rear and say, : " oh ! Primordial Energy, if I have done something wrong while searching for the truth, please forgive me .."
Then put your right hand on your fontanella bone area(top of the head) ,fingers up ,and turn it 7 times clockwise and ask your energy : please Mother Energy, Mother Kundalini connect me with you.. connect me with the Universe.. remain silent 2 or 3 minutes, then open your eyes, and with both hands above your head ( more or less 5 ou 7 cm ) try to feel what is happening to you OK.?
Ne m'éconduis pas... mais..
conduis -moi!
Mènes-moi, du rêve à la réalité,
Mènes-moi ,de l'opacité à la clarté,
Sors-moi du compliqué,
à la simplicité,
Conduis-moi de l'obscur à l'évident,
Conduis-moi de l'intention à " l'attention ,"
Délivre-moi de ce qu'on m'a dit "qui j'étais"
Et fais moi voir qui "vraiment " je suis
Conduis-moi à l'endroit que je n'ai
jamais,ô jamais quitté...
Et, viens, viens..reste; avec moi,
Au Royaume de la "Paix "
Lead me from dreaming to waking.
Lead me from opacity to clarity.
Lead me from the complicated to the simple.
Lead me from the obscure to the obvious.
Lead me from intention to attention.
Lead me from what I'm told I am to what I see I am.
Lead me from confrontation to wide openness.
Lead me to the place I never left,
Where there is peace, and peace
- The Upanishads
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2010 : 02:41:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Ask your inner silence about these experiences. Does it come up with any answers?
When you become witness of the highest state (abiding silence), you come to a point where there is no one left who should trust a process.
You can call it the highest state of witness... the unborn state.
You become unborn... a bridge.
On this side of the bridge you can see You and your world. And on the other side there is the unknown.
For example, you are an individual human being in gross form. But upon close examination you know that you contain millions of cells inside your body. Your body is a big house in itself.
Similarly you call this planet gross form Earth, it contains billions of beings and forms within.
Then you call this existence Universe, it contains billions of Planets and Galaxies within including you.
You are just a little tiny-winy sand particle in this huge existence.
And you practice yoga? Are you joking? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4516 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2010 : 10:51:58 AM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi :)
After the meditation, after contemplating what I had just witnessed, I started to realize that I was overloaded big time. The whole top of my head was gone. Like someone had taken a giant spoon and scooped out the top of my head and brain... a spacious vacuum like a funnel shaped hole, about five inches at the top narrowing down to the center of the head.
When I tried to focus on the top of my skull, all I could feel was this big hole opening up into space. I also felt numb and stupefied. Like someone had clubbed me and left me dazed.
This feeling, the numbness, the space, no more top half of the head persisted for over seven days!!! It's a wonder I even got through the work week! Only today, nine days later, do I feel like I have a top half of the head and that I'm coming out of zombie land. Is this what is meant by premature crown opening?
That is what is meant by a crown opening. It may or may not be premature. If it is, you will find out fast enough, as the effects of a premature crown opening are usually not delayed very long. A premature crown opening, as opposed to a timely crown opening, will cause too much energy to begin moving upwards and outwards through the body. This could manifest in many different ways and some of them could be uncomfortable. Typical symptoms in the body of a premature crown opening would be heat, shaking, headaches etc. The manifestation at the crown of a premature crown opening would be experienced as ungroundedness, feeling spaced out and being unable to concentrate. "Expanding into infinity" in a way that does not feel comfortable is a phrase that springs to mind. When the crown opens in a timely manner, the expansion is experienced as one of dissolving into pure bliss consciousness, not all at once necessarily, but gradually and increasingly over the days, weeks and years that follow. The experience in the body resulting from a timely crown opening is the gradual rise of ecstasy to a fully ecstatic body, radiating love in all directions.
If you think your opening may be premature, then you will need to self-pace your practices accordingly, and possibly drop some practices such as the top down kriya practice and introduce some new practices, which are better designed to regulate the opening of the energetic body safely. If you believe your opening to be timely, then you are on the right road, and can proceed towards the life divine with joy in your heart.
All the best,
Christi
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2010 : 12:18:00 AM
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Hi Smileyogi :)
Thank you very much for taking the time to further explain and answer my questions.
I am slowly digesting what you've said. Now I am intrigued to do a meditation and just rest in the sushumna.
Sorry to hear about the experience you had with Sharmila as I feel that it was painful for you.
All the best.
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2010 : 12:25:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
When you become witness of the highest state (abiding silence), you come to a point where there is no one left who should trust a process.
You can call it the highest state of witness... the unborn state.
You become unborn... a bridge.
On this side of the bridge you can see You and your world. And on the other side there is the unknown.
For example, you are an individual human being in gross form. But upon close examination you know that you contain millions of cells inside your body. Your body is a big house in itself.
Similarly you call this planet gross form Earth, it contains billions of beings and forms within.
Then you call this existence Universe, it contains billions of Planets and Galaxies within including you.
You are just a little tiny-winy sand particle in this huge existence.
And you practice yoga? Are you joking?
Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for your response and thank you for reminding that the battle to overcome ego is a never ending one.
:)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2010 : 12:44:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
That is what is meant by a crown opening. It may or may not be premature. If it is, you will find out fast enough, as the effects of a premature crown opening are usually not delayed very long. A premature crown opening, as opposed to a timely crown opening, will cause too much energy to begin moving upwards and outwards through the body. This could manifest in many different ways and some of them could be uncomfortable. Typical symptoms in the body of a premature crown opening would be heat, shaking, headaches etc. The manifestation at the crown of a premature crown opening would be experienced as ungroundedness, feeling spaced out and being unable to concentrate. "Expanding into infinity" in a way that does not feel comfortable is a phrase that springs to mind. When the crown opens in a timely manner, the expansion is experienced as one of dissolving into pure bliss consciousness, not all at once necessarily, but gradually and increasingly over the days, weeks and years that follow. The experience in the body resulting from a timely crown opening is the gradual rise of ecstasy to a fully ecstatic body, radiating love in all directions.
If you think your opening may be premature, then you will need to self-pace your practices accordingly, and possibly drop some practices such as the top down kriya practice and introduce some new practices, which are better designed to regulate the opening of the energetic body safely. If you believe your opening to be timely, then you are on the right road, and can proceed towards the life divine with joy in your heart.
All the best,
Christi
Hi Christi :)
Yes, that is exactly what I did: I dropped the top-down Kriya spinal breathing and that type of meditation and went into a kind of recovery mode, sitting quietly just sensing the inner body. I guess I had a fear that my brain might shut off and I wouldn't be able to work and earn a living.
It also made me realize that stunning effect that occurs when you meet very high divine beings. I believe the cause of that whole experience was the result of seeing the cherubs, the divine female face and the divine male face. As to who exactly they were, I don't know for sure. But I think if one were to bathe in their presence for a long time, it would disintegrate your coarser components. As Smileyogi has emphasized, I have to learn to let go of the fear and trust Shakti. Something to work on.. :) I also believe I'm ready to venture back into the realm of the sushumna/crown light, now that the initial impact and realization of the type of experiences that might occur has worn off..
Once again Christi, it is always a pleasure to hear from you and read your posts.
I hope you have a speedy enlightenment. :)
TI
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Smileyogi
Australia
50 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2010 : 02:47:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
That is what is meant by a crown opening. It may or may not be premature. If it is, you will find out fast enough, as the effects of a premature crown opening are usually not delayed very long. A premature crown opening, as opposed to a timely crown opening, will cause too much energy to begin moving upwards and outwards through the body. This could manifest in many different ways and some of them could be uncomfortable. Typical symptoms in the body of a premature crown opening would be heat, shaking, headaches etc. The manifestation at the crown of a premature crown opening would be experienced as ungroundedness, feeling spaced out and being unable to concentrate. "Expanding into infinity" in a way that does not feel comfortable is a phrase that springs to mind.
See why I love you,Christi?..lovely,accurate,clear light explaining..
Kisses from the mahayogi:)
Danny |
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