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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
 Posted - May 10 2021 : 05:11:09 AM
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I am currently reading Daniel Quinn’s Ishmael and thoroughly enjoying it - perhaps not in the same way as in Carsonzi’s passionate defense of it here - and being pretty sure it would have turned up somewhere on this site, I searched it and came across this interesting forum topic - both for the discussion on Quinn’s work but more so for the discussion of the sutra “Abundance”. I am guilty of interpreting the sutra “abundance” not just as an abundance of bliss and expansion of inner silence but equally as including material abundance. This too has sat uncomfortably with me for years - to the extent that I would often skip it. I am delighted to read others views of it.
If you have not read Ishmael - I strongly recommend it.
Sey  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2021 : 05:14:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by brother neil
this is my take on it, I could be wrong
In al the words used in samyama you are looking to expand in these words/meanings from the inside out. By saying abundance you are not just asking to recive abundance, you are expanding in abundance, if you expand in abundance then your expansion will lead you to realize your abundance. By realizing your abundance you may realize that you have a lot and in turn can give a lot. In time you may be so appreciative of your abunadance that you will want to share it so much, because you recognize that you yourself are abundant. that you may have less matirial things and be cool with that.
What if you dont have abundance? if you dont hav an abundance of love how can you give love? If you dont have an abundance of radiance, how can you shine through the darkest of days? if you are not abundantly unified with others, how can express your unity to others. If you are not abundant in health how can you share health. if you are not abundant in stregth then how can you be strong enough to help others when they are weak. If you are not abundant If your wisdom is not abundant how can you share wisdom? if your not abundant in inner sensuality how can you share that with others. If you are not abundant in lightness of air, how can you show others how to flow freely? Thanks for posing your question I was in the moment when answering.
take care
neil
I find this response the best one.
Sey |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2021 : 4:22:13 PM
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| Sey, Thank you for resurrecting this interesting discussion from 2008. Interestingly I've been drawn to the adundance sutra right from the start and it has been the one I repeat for 5 minutes. Releasing it into silence fills me with a glowing energy inside. I have come to believe abundance is about filling one's own tank so as to have enough love to share with others (kind of like putting on your oxygen mask before putting one on your child). I also resonated most with brother neil's post that you shared above. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2021 : 7:10:30 PM
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My take on Abundance has evolved in six years of Samyama. When I first began the practice, our family finances were uneasy, mostly credit card debt. I remember when passing it then it definitely was a like a prayer for our circumstances to improve. Within a few years they certainly did, and then some. I cannot for sure connect it to Samyama specifically, but can attribute it to the mosaic of my yoga.
I am in Interpaul’s camp, the Abundance is now about sharing all your good stuff.  |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2021 : 07:25:04 AM
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| This is such an interesting discussion. It has made me realize that I am interpreting the sutra less and less, it is mostly an expanding feeling/sensation/perception of "abundance"- and let it be as it may. It is just being with it, enlivening its qualities in this world. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2021 : 09:12:37 AM
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To go back to Quinn’s book. There is something there that has me thinking. I quote:
quote:
. “The people of your culture cling with fanatical tenacity to the specialness of man. They want desperately to perceive a vast gulf between man and the rest of creation. This mythology of human superiority justifies their doing whatever they please with the world, just the way Hitler’s mythology of Aryan superiority justified his doing whatever he pleased with Europe. But in the end this mythology is not deeply satisfying. The Takers are a profoundly lonely people. The world for them is enemy territory, and they live in it like an army of occupation, alienated and isolated by their extraordinary specialness.”
The fact of the matter is we do attribute human a special place in creation - we claim we are the only ones who are self-aware; conscious of being conscious. Animals and plants aren’t. Is that based on any real evidence? Or based on the size of our brain and coming from the model that consciousness is a bi-product of an evolved brain?
Before meditation, I rejected that humans are more special and apart from any other species. But as I became more Aware, I started thinking that maybe we are truly the needle that plays the song on the record of this Universe. We co-create this world. We talk of it being maya. True, we who meditate may wish to treat the world with more compassion that stated by Quinn above but nevertheless we do have this in-grain superiority of it being “our” world.
Now I am re-thinking my position.
Thoughts anyone?
Sey
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2021 : 09:34:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
The fact of the matter is we do attribute human a special place in creation - we claim we are the only ones who are self-aware; conscious of being conscious. Animals and plants aren’t. Is that based on any real evidence? Or based on the size of our brain and coming from the model that consciousness is a bi-product of an evolved brain?
Before meditation, I rejected that humans are more special and apart from any other species. But as I became more Aware, I started thinking that maybe we are truly the needle that plays the song on the record of this Universe. We co-create this world. We talk of it being maya. True, we who meditate may wish to treat the world with more compassion that stated by Quinn above but nevertheless we do have this in-grain superiority of it being “our” world.
Now I am re-thinking my position.
Thoughts anyone?
Sey
Hello Sey,
You always have thought provoking posts.
In my native language which has it's root in Sanskrit, Maya means Love and not illusion. So, we are Love, this world is Love and we are born of Love. With this being the underlying reality,then no one is special and everyone is special at the same time.
Being in the world and serving the world from this space/inner silence/ pure-bliss-consciousness/sat-chit-ananda is the fruit of spiritual practices.Of course, spiritual discussions are great as well! After all the creator created this world to know/experience itself.
Sunyata |
Edited by - sunyata on May 11 2021 09:39:36 AM |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2021 : 10:33:26 PM
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Hi Sunyata,
It is fascinating to learn that "maya" means love in Nepali. In Sanskrit, "maya" means unreal.
Of course, the world may be seen as unreal or an expression of Love, depending on the state of the consciousness of the viewer. Our perception of the world evolves as we progress on the path, from seeing a material world, to an illusory one to a transfigured reality to a world both real and void, both emerging from emptiness and never-created. With the power of our mind, we co-create the world, and thus we are responsible for it. Educating our mind through meditation and other spiritual practices becomes an ethical duty toward the world and toward ourselves - our higher Self. |
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