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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 10 2010 : 06:07:37 AM
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Dear Yogani ji and my dear Friends
While going into meditation today, a crow started cawing outside my room... CAW... CAW... CAW...
Then a priest in the nearby Hindu temple started cawing on a loudspeaker... joined by another priest from a nearby Sikh temple and a Mosque bit farther.
Then my dog started barking. And then some big trucks passed by the back road honking their loud horns. Few guys were swearing at each other on the street.
And to add up in all this, my 2.6 year old son was feeling great for some reason and started to make loud shouts in the balcony.
This has never happened to me before in 3 years of my meditation.
At one moment I felt like if I had a gun, I would shoot the damn crow outside that was the most annoying and consistent in making his CAW... CAW... CAW....
I felt like the whole world has become a bluddy crow.
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Now the thing is... if I had entered into my meditation, then even if the whole world had actually become a crow, it would not have bothered me. Because its the mind thats bothered/annoyed.
When I am in meditation, I sort of bypass the mind or transcend it. There is no Mani, only awareness.
Dear Yogani ji, When will this state become a permanent state?
Or will I be shifting in and out like this all my life? I am really tired of shifting in and out.
Why do I have to come out and enter the mind again? I hate going back... its like going back to sleep and dreaming. Not just dreaming but actually becoming part of that stupid dream. Only when I meditate I realise that I was dreaming.
Why can't I be awake/aware all the time?
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If the darkness is there, then the light is not there. And if the light is there, then the darkness is not there. They cannot be both together. Awareness and the ego cannot be together. - Osho
So how do I dispose off the ego permanently?
Thank you!
Mani (of the mind/ego) |
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yogani
USA
5245 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2010 : 11:53:42 AM
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Hi Mani:
Keep practicing. 
There has been movement in the direction you desire, right? And, therefore, with continuation of practices, the movement will continue.
The mind will not go. It will still be there. It is the center of gravity of "self" that shifts from mind toward abiding inner silence, until the mind no longer rules. Then the mind continues as servant, not master.
Our relationship with the "crow" is a barometer of our condition. It will change as our sense of self gradually stabilizes in stillness.
As for "when," I can't tell you for sure. Each of our journeys is unique, with underlying principles, methods and experiences that we share in common. The "when" is the subject of an upcoming lesson.
The guru is in you.
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Rael
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 12:03:29 AM
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Hi Manigma!
As usual our great friend Yogani has said it all with efficiency and clarity....I ditto that!
Patience my friend, you have already moved well beyond the common relationship with the mind as it is...it's all uphill from here!
Blessings
Rael! |
Edited by - Rael on Mar 11 2010 12:22:12 AM |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 12:59:17 AM
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Dear Yogani Ji
Thank you. I will keep practicing. Do I have any other choice? You have entrapped me... haha
Stopping the practices is not an option now.
I look forward to reading your upcoming lesson on 'when'.
Regards
Mani (of the mind/ego)
I'm sitting on the moon
Watching planet blue, hello!
Looking all around
Rotating without sound, where are you?
Where are you? I'm sitting on the moon
Where are you? I am missing you
I came from very far
A little unknown star, hello!
I don't know what to do
It's so cold and blue, without you
Where are you? I'm sitting on the moon
Where are you? I am missing you
-Enigma |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 07:42:44 AM
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You can use signs like this to increase bhakti. For instance, if you believe in God, you may decide it is a sign from God to stop meditating and do it later. Then after stopping, keep your highest ideal in mind, and let the interruption increase your longing and devotion.
That way it is not your mind insisting on what is right. And anything to increase bhakti is good.
Or another alternative is to sit quietly and listen to all the interruptions. Don't try to judge or even identify what they are, but just watch quietly as in samyama. If your mind gets angry, watch that too. Return to IAM if you can, but if not just keep your mind quiet by watching without judgement. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 11:02:36 AM
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Hi Manigma,
Sometimes it's good just to be with what is happening... no expectations. If the crows are loud, or the lorries, or people, so be it. That's your meditation.
There was a monk doing a meditation retreat in Thailand, and he found it hard to meditate because of the sound of lorries going past the monastery wall. He went to see the abbot and said that the noise of the lorries was disturbing him. The abbot said: "The sound does not come in here and disturb you, you go out and disturb it. "
It took me a very long time to realize what that meant.
Christi |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 12:34:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
You can use signs like this to increase bhakti. For instance, if you believe in God, you may decide it is a sign from God to stop meditating and do it later. Then after stopping, keep your highest ideal in mind, and let the interruption increase your longing and devotion.
That way it is not your mind insisting on what is right. And anything to increase bhakti is good.
Or another alternative is to sit quietly and listen to all the interruptions. Don't try to judge or even identify what they are, but just watch quietly as in samyama. If your mind gets angry, watch that too. Return to IAM if you can, but if not just keep your mind quiet by watching without judgement.
Dear Etherfish
Thanks for your reply.
For me, real bhakti begins when I reach the heart.
And there is no increase or decrase in bhakti. Bhakti is simply bhakti. Either you have it or you don't.
I became angry on that crow because it came right when the shift was about to happen. I was just going to dip in...
But then I got stuck.
I AM... I AM... CAW!! I AM... I AM... CAW!!
If the crow had come a second later, then even if it had come and sat on my head, it would not have disturbed me at all. Becauase then Mani and his mind would have been left far behind.
In that state if I ask where is Mani? I get no answer. Its like Mani is sleeping down somewhere below the belly.
Beyond the heart there is just Pure Awareness... its like you/the soul has taken seat in the third eye. I can not speak in that state.
There is no "I" and yet the whole world becomes "I". There is no division. I can not say that is you and that is that. Division is impossible. Even the crow becomes me.
But now, I am Mani (of the mind/ego) |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 12:35:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
"The sound does not come in here and disturb you, you go out and disturb it."
I hope it means that to be disturbed by the sounds, you must exist. When you don't exist, who is going to be disturbed?
Mind works like a filter... filtering everything that it sees/hears. This is soothing, that is annoying, this is beautiful, that is ugly... But once you are beyond mind, there are no divisions/disturbances. Its simply impossible to be disturbed. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2010 : 4:06:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Or will I be shifting in and out like this all my life? I am really tired of shifting in and out.
Why do I have to come out and enter the mind again? I hate going back... its like going back to sleep and dreaming. Not just dreaming but actually becoming part of that stupid dream.
Totally recognized here! Thanks for being so frank and honest.
I was reminded in a recent post in forum of one of Yogani's lessons on Transforming Negative Emotional Energy:
http://www.aypsite.org/340.html
Particularly these words stuck with me:
quote:
...we complain to the divine about our slow progress toward enlightenment.
"Oh Lord, my journey to realization of Thee is going so slowly!"
Yes, complaining with heart-felt emotion to God (however we may conceive Him/Her/It) can be very productive, as long as we are willing to act to resolve what it is we are complaining about.
I have started to do that, and the effect is remarkable. Try it!!! |
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stevenbhow
Japan
352 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2010 : 12:32:37 AM
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Hi Manigma,
I think you should see the crow as a good sign. I've seen several posts here at AYP as well as having experiences myself while meditating outside with the sudden appearance of birds (sometimes in large numbers). I think it is a positive indication that energy is moving through you while you are practicing. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2010 : 02:59:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Totally recognized here! Thanks for being so frank and honest.
I was reminded in a recent post in forum of one of Yogani's lessons on Transforming Negative Emotional Energy:
http://www.aypsite.org/340.html
Particularly these words stuck with me:
quote:
...we complain to the divine about our slow progress toward enlightenment.
"Oh Lord, my journey to realization of Thee is going so slowly!"
Yes, complaining with heart-felt emotion to God (however we may conceive Him/Her/It) can be very productive, as long as we are willing to act to resolve what it is we are complaining about.
I have started to do that, and the effect is remarkable. Try it!!!
Dear emc
Thanks for referring to this lesson by Yogani ji. Very precise.
Sometimes the situation is such that the hand of fate must be forced! |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2010 : 03:08:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by stevenbhow
Hi Manigma,
I think you should see the crow as a good sign. I've seen several posts here at AYP as well as having experiences myself while meditating outside with the sudden appearance of birds (sometimes in large numbers). I think it is a positive indication that energy is moving through you while you are practicing.
Dear Steven
Thank you.
The crow came again today. And started cawing the same moment as before... just when I was going to dip in.
I tried to bring in the methods Etherfish and Christi had suggested in above posts. But everything went futile... the crow was reluctant to cooperate at all.
But then guess what
The Crow became my new master!
Everytime the crow said CAW!... I took it as a Zen master hitting me on my head with his stick.
Caw! - Don't think! Just watch.
Caw! - Don't dream!
Caw! - Be aware!
The crow that was annoying me yesterday became my master. It was beautiful. I dipped in with a smile on my face and tears in my eyes.
Its a miracle.
Love you all! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2010 : 06:18:51 AM
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Hi Manigma,
quote:
I hope it means that to be disturbed by the sounds, you must exist. When you don't exist, who is going to be disturbed?
Yes. Everything is just the way it is, but we paint it with a brush, making it good or bad, pleasant or disturbing. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2010 : 09:47:14 AM
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Great to hear, manigma! Crows are sometimes our best teachers!  |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2010 : 12:35:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Manigma,
quote:
I hope it means that to be disturbed by the sounds, you must exist. When you don't exist, who is going to be disturbed?
Yes. Everything is just the way it is, but we paint it with a brush, making it good or bad, pleasant or disturbing.
Dear Christi
The crow (my new master) came again today. And did the same thing at the same time as before.
"The sound does not come in here and disturb you, you go out and disturb it."
This time I got another meaning to the above quote you mentioned.
When we get disturbed by the sound, its because our awareness has moved on the object (sound). But if we do not leave the awareness from the subject (the listener), it is not possible to get disturbed by the sound.
After I reach subjective awareness. No sounds can disturb me.
But there is a state beyond subjective awareness too. I hope this can be called Witness or Pure Awareness state? It is this state that I was earlier referring to as no mind/ego state. But I realised today that in this state mind still is, ego is not.
It is in this state that I do all the automatic asanas, mudras, bandhas etc.
Today I also realised that Plants, Animals can only have objective awareness and its not possible for them to achieve subjective awareness. Only humans are capable to achieve this state.
Also, earlier after the meditation was over, the energy would run down back to my lower chakras (sex centre). But from yesterday, it moves down into the heart or the navel, not below that. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2010 : 4:36:25 PM
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Hi Manigma,
quote:
But there is a state beyond subjective awareness too. I hope this can be called Witness or Pure Awareness state? It is this state that I was earlier referring to as no mind/ego state. But I realised today that in this state mind still is, ego is not.
I think, usually in yoga, subjective awareness is called the "witness", and the state beyond the witness is called "oneness" or "unity". Oneness or unity are also sometimes refered to as the "Supreme".
See here:
http://www.aypsite.org/333.html
So yes, when you are resting in the witness as Self, then you will not be disturbed by the sound of the crow. But in that state you are still seperate from the crow. It is object, and you are the subject witnessing the sound it makes, undisturbed. Going beyond the witness state involves a subtle shift in identification beyond the separation of subject/object.
http://www.aypsite.org/350.html
Then the crow is no longer your master, but your Self. Your Self, cawing at your Self. Nothing but God everywhere. It is perfection, and the perfection of it is bliss.
Christi |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2010 : 08:36:14 AM
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Neither isness nor no-isness, neither emptiness nor fullness,
So unfathomable, beyond the senses.
Within the crown of the head a child speaks,
How shall he be named?
Laughing, playing, the knack of meditation,
Day and night sharing divine knowledge.
He laughs, plays, keeps mind untroubled
Such unwavering one is always with god.
Day and night dissolving mind in no-mind,
Dropping fathomable talking the unfathomable.
Dropping hope remaining hopeless:
Brahma the creator says, "I am your servant."
What flows down, he channels up.
He releases his embrace, shatters illusion.
Die, O Yogi, Die!
Die, Sweet is dying.
Die that death Gorakh died and saw.
-Gorakhnath
Lesson 333: Jesus said we must die to be born again in this life.
During today's meditation, I was prepared to die instead of returning back to an unconscious living. But it seems my coffin is sill under construction.
Thank you all. It was an honour to be here. This is a great forum. Thank you Yogani ji.
Now I will return to this forum only when I am dead.
Namaste. |
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Rael
USA
173 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2010 : 8:48:51 PM
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Namaste Manigma!
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2010 : 01:00:07 AM
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Hi manigama,
My neighbours have two titans of dog that they don't walk enough.
The two titans would some times burst into hauling and barking all of a sudden during my session.
At the beginning I was really shaked, some times I even felt the energy was got out of control by the impact of the big energy current sent from the dogs. I was kicked out of "silence." (at one point, I wanted to stand up and yell to my neighbors, seriously.) Later I gradually became immune to this. And I realized the former silence is just being quiet superficially. |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2010 : 03:12:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Then the crow is no longer your master, but your Self. Your Self, cawing at your Self. Nothing but God everywhere. It is perfection, and the perfection of it is bliss.
Christi
Mind is consciousness.
Space is body.
The consciousness that flows in me and the Crow belongs to one single mind.
By attaching myself with the desires, the illusion of individual/person takes birth. It makes me feel as if I am a separate individual/person.
Which is just an illusion.
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The Crow
