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th1996
Germany
42 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 16 2024 : 4:46:47 PM
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Hello guys,
I want to be like John Wilder and make the same contribution to humanity (of course I know it is fiction). Since I have read this novel I want to be like John. He is my ideal, my ishta. And I really think I have the potential inside me to be like him...everyone has the potential!! My bhakti gets very intense after reading about him...and I would love to add every practise immediately 
My question is: John has stopped with breath retention for some time because of self pacing. And in this phase he thought he need breath retention in some form for fast spiritual progress. Only after finding spinal breathing he was able to add breath retention in a stronger form. There is the quote in the book where it is said that now after fully being able to practise he is able to embrace his divine mission again. So, I ask myself if we really want to fulfil our divine mission do we need some form of breath retention (Kumbhaka)?
I don't practise kumbhaka because of self pacing reasoning. Should I add some form of breath retention? Can it be that more is more? Because in AYP we say less is more, but can be more more? When in me is the purpose of fast spiritual progress can it be that I find more stability when I practise more? Because I am instabil right now...and I have testet to practise less, like only deep meditation 10 minutes. I have tried it four days, but daily life was getting worser. After adding spinal breathing and samyama again I felt much better. Much more dynamic.
So, I want to make the optimum spiritual progress in my life and for this I need the perfect balance. Not practising too much and not practising too less. When I practise less it is like my inner guru says to me: Come on, this is too less!!!
But on the other hand I don't experience lots of ecstasy in daily life. This makes my life boring. The contrast of the ecstasy between daily practise and daily life leads to that I find life boring. I miss it to not experiencing daily life like I do experience my daily practise...
Can it be an overload not experiencing ecstasy in daily life? Or is it a sign that I practise too less?
My concern is that I don't go as fast as I could, and that this is the reason I feel miserable/the differences between my daily practise and daily life. Can this be a reason? Or is it more likely that an overload is playing the role? Or do I just need more time and don't think about it so much?
Because I have some stability in life with my current level of practise. But there is less joy in my life. Less happiness. I can do my life but I can't enjoy it. No ecstatic bliss. But in the practises there is mostly soooo much ecstatic bliss, I really ask myself why it don't show up in daily life...
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Christi
United Kingdom
4529 Posts |
Posted - Aug 16 2024 : 9:14:14 PM
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Hi th1996,
Spinal Breathing can help to balance the energies between the lower and higher centres in the body. This is mentioned in lesson 69. So, if someone is experiencing energetic overload and they do not have a Spinal Breathing practice, then adding one can help in some cases. So, more can be more!
Lesson 69 also mentions increasing the rest period at the end of practices and adding grounding practices. So again, more additions can be helpful.
It is good to keep an eye on things though. Some people do not benefit by adding Spinal Breathing to aid overload and these people then have to cut back.
It is not necessary to include breath retentions as part of your daily practice. Breath retentions are powerful and should only be added by people who feel ready to take them on and have already been stable with their practice for some time. Some time means weeks or months. If someone takes on breath retentions too soon, usually they will find out fairly quickly and can back off. Breath retentions are amongst the most powerful pranayama methods along with bhastrika. So, they should not be rushed into, especially if not stable already. |
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Dogboy
USA
2300 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2024 : 01:43:46 AM
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I agree with Christi on kumbacka and bhastrika, these are powerful practices and should not be used by a sensitive meditator. Once you are stable months at 20 minutes DM, then maybe consider them in small doses.
On a personal note, I find lying prone in rest at the conclusion of practice with my third eye touching the floor/earth a terrific way to ground after stirring up prana from practices. Samyama is still echoing in the body and there is a felt sense of calmness and radience.
quote:
Because I have some stability in life with my current level of practise. But there is less joy in my life. Less happiness. I can do my life but I can?t enjoy it. No ecstatic bliss. But in the practises there is mostly soooo much ecstatic bliss, I really ask myself why it don?t show up in daily life...
While you are prone, with your eye on the floor and filled with silence, this might be a good time to inquire about these feelings, and drop it into the silence like a sutra. What sparks joy in you? How can you get there from here? Bliss and ecstasy thrive in stillness. How can you find more stillness in and outside of practice? Should you wait for joy or try to cultivate it when we engage with others, and find agency in our actions and activities.
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th1996
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2024 : 09:08:35 AM
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Thank u for ur answers.
@Christi I have one more question...is it possible that I am not good self paced and so I don't experience ecstatic bliss in daily life? in other words: Can wrong self pacing steal our fruits of the practises in daily life?
@Dogboy Thank u for your questions. I ask them very often...I get Joy from practising, reading and talking about AYP and giving it away to others...but in other things I don't find Joy. I can't find hobbys like other people. I only interest in making spiritual progress and helping others to do the same. But on the other side I know that life itself is ecstatic bliss, so everything can give some joy, can't it? So, maybe it's a self pacing problem... |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4529 Posts |
Posted - Aug 17 2024 : 10:40:51 AM
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quote:
answers.
@Christi I have one more question...is it possible that I am not good self paced and so I don?t experience ecstatic bliss in daily life? in other words: Can wrong self pacing steal our fruits of the practises in daily life?
Hi th1996,
Yes, poor self-pacing can hinder a practitioner on the path. This can work in both directions. If someone needs to reduce practices and they do not, this can slow progress over the long run. And if someone could benefit from increasing their practices and they do not, this could also hinder long-term progress.
However, lack of joy in life, bliss, love and so on, are not necessarily indicators of poor self-pacing. It could simply be that there are a lot of spiritual blockages in the subtle nervous system (heart/ mind) that need to be removed. And this can take time. So, cultivating patience and settling-in for the long ride, can be the best way to proceed. |
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Blanche
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2024 : 2:16:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by th1996
Hello guys,
I want to be like John Wilder and make the same contribution to humanity (of course I know it is fiction). Since I have read this novel I want to be like John. He is my ideal, my ishta. And I really think I have the potential inside me to be like him...everyone has the potential!! My bhakti gets very intense after reading about him...and I would love to add every practise immediately
...
But on the other hand I don?t experience lots of ecstasy in daily life. This makes my life boring. The contrast of the ecstasy between daily practise and daily life leads to that I find life boring. I miss it to not experiencing daily life like I do experience my daily practise...
Can it be an overload not experiencing ecstasy in daily life? Or is it a sign that I practise too less?
My concern is that I don?t go as fast as I could, and that this is the reason I feel miserable/the differences between my daily practise and daily life. Can this be a reason? Or is it more likely that an overload is playing the role? Or do I just need more time and don?t think about it so much?
Because I have some stability in life with my current level of practise. But there is less joy in my life. Less happiness. I can do my life but I can?t enjoy it. No ecstatic bliss. But in the practises there is mostly soooo much ecstatic bliss, I really ask myself why it don?t show up in daily life...
If you want to experience joy, happiness, ecstasy, the first thing to do is to stop thinking about your happiness and focus on other people's happiness. Preocupation with personal situations often is a source of misery. Dedicating life to others' happiness is a continuous source of joy and happiness. Look at Yogani: He has dedicated a good part of his life sharing spiritual practices, developing and supporting this website, writing books, recording lessons, and he does not even want to share his name to take personal credit. But he probably experiences a lot of joy and happiness watching the results of his work.
Some of us may have a very public life, some of us may have a very private life. Each of us has a dharma, a purpose in life, and it is different for each of us. Carrying for the happiness of even one person makes a difference. Carrying for someone's happiness means in fact to love them. If you want to live a rich life, open your heart to love. Experiencing the joy and happiness of the beloved is a thousand times more intense, enriching, satisfying than experiencing some personal joy. Love for others, the planet, your garden, your dog - opening your heart melts away the boundaries of individual identity and reveals who you really are: unbounded awareness, unbounded happiness, unbounded love. How much compassion and empathy we feel are clearer signs of spiritual progress than how far we go in kechari mudra.  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1575 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2024 : 07:26:24 AM
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Dear th1966,
If you can find a means of grounding that works well for you, you can certainly try adding more. The best means of grounding I have found is interacting with people, listening, sharing spiritual wisdom such as in a satsang (irrespective of spiritual path if you have reached the stage where you recognise the validity of each path and you are past arguing)
Sey |
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yogani
USA
5253 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2024 : 4:42:52 PM
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Hi th1996 and All,
Great discussion on the Secrets of Wilder novel and the practical aspects of overdoing, handling overload, and the important role of service.
We have been experimenting with an early stage "AI assistant" for AYP Plus, not expected to be available there for 6-12 months. However, it can currently be accessed for specific inquiries, drawing exclusively on the content of all the AYP Plus lessons and books.
Below is an AI response on the relationship of John Wilder and AYP, which you might find interesting.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Who is John Wilder and How is He Related to AYP?
John Wilder is a fictional character and the protagonist of The Secrets of Wilder, a spiritual adventure novel written by Yogani. The novel was written before the AYP lessons began.
John Wilder as Inspiration for AYP
* The novel explores Wilder's discovery of powerful spiritual practices and the far-reaching effects these practices have on his life. The story is set in mainstream American Christian culture, broadening the view of what enlightenment can be from a Christian perspective.
* Wilder's journey, which is exciting and compressed in time, serves as an archetype for any young adult on the spiritual path.
* The AYP lessons build upon Wilder's experiences, offering a more refined system of practices that can lead to a smoother path for practitioners.
* Although a fictional character, Wilder's experiences, including the mistakes he makes and the difficulties he faces, provide valuable insights into the challenges and pitfalls that can be encountered on the path of spiritual practice.
AYP: An Expansion and Refinement of Concepts in The Secrets of Wilder
* The AYP (Advanced Yoga Practices) system, a comprehensive knowledge resource for self-directed spiritual practitioners, was developed after the novel.
* The AYP system is based on the practical experiences of many practitioners, including the author, and aims to provide a safe and effective path to enlightenment.
* The AYP writings address the excesses and wrong turns that Wilder makes in the novel, offering guidance on self-pacing, grounding, and other means for ensuring comfort and safety in long-term practice.
* The AYP procedures and practice chart are more up-to-date than the discussions and chart found in The Secrets of Wilder.
* While the novel provides a "rough cut" on the discovery of practices and their results, the AYP lessons and books are meant to provide practical instruction.
Key Differences Between John Wilder's Approach and the AYP System
* John Wilder's journey is characterized by experimentation and discovery, including significant trials and errors, and a lack of emphasis on self-pacing.
* The AYP system, in contrast, focuses on providing a systematic and balanced approach to practice that prioritizes comfort and safety, emphasizing self-pacing and grounding.
* AYP aims to make the path to enlightenment more accessible and manageable for a wider range of practitioners.
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th1996
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2024 : 09:12:47 AM
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Thank u Yogani...
It seems like my spiritual practises has got a boost since a view days and weeks. I will join the online Retreat of Tristan, which makes me very happy.Since now I thought the boost comes from this. But now I think it could be u and your answer.
A little update from me: I find more and more stillness, ectasy and love in my practises, and more and mire it showed up in daily life. Not abiding, yet but I am very confident that it gets more and more.
My situation is still that there is a lot of happening in daily practises, and not so much in daily life. But it gets better. I will start therapy in 04/2025, and think this will help a lot in handling my depression which is the main hindrance in my path. I also started in September a new job, which helps me to structure my life and balance the practises into my life.
And what amazes me is that every time I enter into stillness I have great insights. The only confusion is that stillness itself gets more and more and is sometimes very strong, but don't get more abiding.
So, thank u a lot Yogani. For me and my life(and the life of my love ones) u are making an great impact. Even, when my life quality is not so much growing like I expected it for nine years, I have got amazing spiritual experiences in practises. And this gives me a lot of strength. Even this alone is worth more than money ever could be.
And I notice a lot of change in my environment which would not be able without my daily practises, and so without u and AYP.
So, from an greater perspective I think good things are happening here...#128591;
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yogani
USA
5253 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2024 : 3:08:44 PM
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th1996
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2024 : 1:08:03 PM
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A little update: Life is good in moment for me...I find myself in a position where I can do a lot of practises and be stable in daily life. I have added the enhanced asana practise with maha mudra 10 seconds each side and one time cosmic samyama a day. There was only two weeks between adding asana and cosmic samyama (I practise both since two weeks). It feels good and stable until now. But I don't want to build up something in the background, so I ask: Is it too much at once?
Especially I have added the same time the samyama sutra "Relationship of body and inner space- Lightness of air" to "Relationship of body and living inner space-Lightness of air". So, three things I have changed...my mind tells me it is too much but my heart says it is okay...and my experience is good. But all three changes are adding very much to my life and routine in form of powerful spiritual energy.
What I also find strange is the continuing cultivation of stillness without the witness. During the last online retreat by Tristan I have got the witness, even some days after. But now it is fading away, but I have a lot of stillness. I know somehow I am not my thoughts and emotions. I am behind them. But its only when I am consciously looking for it, it's not happening automatic yet. It feels like everything I experience is in time and space and I can't find the beyond. But I really want the beyond....
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yogani
USA
5253 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2024 : 7:12:11 PM
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Hi th1996,
It will likely turn out well. But do keep in mind that practices can have a delayed effect. If we add several practices at once, and an overload occurs weeks or months later, it may be difficult to figure out which practice(s) have caused it. And then some time could be lost recovering and rebuilding. This is why a baking in period for each new practice added is advised. John Wilder gives us a pretty good example of how the overdoing/overload process can happen, and that example comes from real life experience. 
Not to sound any alarms or anything like that. Just a word to the wise on potential delayed reactions.
As for "the beyond," it is not something we find. It is something we are, whether we notice it or not. It's not something we can possess. If life is getting better and we are less swayed by the ups and downs, you can be sure the witness is rising. Others may notice the change in us before we do, because we are simply being our Self. Noticing the contrasts in experience occurring during spiritual growth tends to be short lived. In other words, rising enlightenment is easy to get used to, and may even be taken for granted.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Dogboy
USA
2300 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2024 : 04:28:47 AM
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I would not add anymore practices until this stability feels continuous, and simply enjoy what you bring to your seat. So far as witness:
quote:
But its only when I am consciously looking for it, it's not happening automatic yet. It feels like everything I experience is in time and space and I can't find the beyond. But I really want the beyond....
As you build inner silence witnessing happens naturally in that quiet, and can be encouraged with your intentions and attention, just like any yoga practices. Get used to identify thinking, and questioning yourself, is that true? am I being unkind? what do I need? If you are experiencing yourself in time and space, that is witness, you can only witness in the now. Like Yogani points outs, steward your yogi practices and your desires, and you can go beyond the body simply by find ing silence in its depths. |
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th1996
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2024 : 08:51:33 AM
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Thank u for your wise answers.
Yes, my life gets better...is since a view weeks much better. But how bhakti is playing, I want more :D
But I think I will stay at this level of practises for a view months, and will be careful. Thank you so much.
I mean, the inner guru knows, it needs a lot of time but sometimes it is so hard to tame my bhakti. Not that I am having strong and intense bhakti, people like Yogananda has so much more and I can improve it much more. But sometimes the wish for answers of my questions is soo strong.
But I have noticed some cycles in my sessions. At the moment I am in a frustrated, very intense bhakti cycle. After that there comes a cycle of getting new answers and a new level. It is always the same.
It is a little strange how things are unfolding for me... there is happening inner stillness, ectasy and love, but many things you (Yogani) say don?t happen. Like flying in inner space, or the witness, or siddhis, or effective self inquiry, or samadhi...but somehowe I move in this direction. I know, in twenty years I will have all or at least I will be much more near there. My mind is yet in thinking there is the one break through...but I notice more and more the truth in the gradual inner transformation.
And as we know, good bhakti is doing our practise twice a day and enjoying life fully. So, I will lead my energy there. It is coming a good time for me with christmas, some partying and much time with loved ones.
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th1996
Germany
42 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2024 : 07:37:31 AM
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Yesterday, I have read a book about Dharma, and how it helps to live life in divine flow and ecstatic bliss.
I don?t life in divine flow, because I have made decisions which was not in alignment with my dharma. I want to change it and have reflected a lot today about this topic and generell. I just do not know how I can share the stillness beside the natural unfoldment- but I really want to share the i am with everyone - espiacially with my loves ones. I would love when my parents, grandparents and friends would do some form of sadhana... but I can not and do not want to force them, but I know it is the next step in my spiritual unfoldment and my life. Some form of sharing has to come...but how? |
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John Wilder and spiritual progress
