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Mats
Germany
51 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 04 2024 : 8:59:53 PM
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I would like to ask a delicate ethics question:
I live together with my wife and two kids in a city apartment. We'd like to buy a certain house now that is not far away. It is hard to find a comparable one around, we are already looking for several years. There are two old ladies living in that house, one is around 84 years old, the other one is older than 90 years. Both are still reasonably fit. If we bought the house, we would have to dismiss those ladies. I would like to talk to them in advance to find a solution with which everybody could live. Unfortunately, the ladies only want to talk to a new owner, so there will be no conversation. I would think that most buyers don't give too much thought to such issues, so the ladies will have to leave sooner or later.
It is a strong ethical issue for me that also raises karmic questions. Can you help, what do you think? |
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Dogboy
USA
2293 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2024 : 04:31:06 AM
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| Much has to do with your intentions. If you love the house and it is right for your family then buy it. And once you are the new owners, then you can have the conversation with them to see if a solution can be found that eases their transition. If you act with integrity and respect, and lead with a loving intention, I believe the situation would not be a karmic misstep. |
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Mats
Germany
51 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2024 : 08:51:27 AM
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Thank you, Dogboy.
When we did our first viewing, one of the old ladys let us know, that she does not want to leave the house. I think that is natural. I would not like to buy the house and be forced to make them leave against their will. However, that might be necessary. |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2024 : 3:03:11 PM
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| Mats, One detail that?s not clear is why they will be displaced. Does someone else own the building and they live in a rental unit?If someone?s forcing them out that?s horrible. It?s great you are considering how this will impact them. If they are going to be forced out whether you buy or not then buying with the intention to help them seems ethically sound. The only other consideration is whether they have any rights. I don?t know the real estate laws in Germany |
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Mats
Germany
51 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2024 : 3:25:46 PM
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Hi interpaul,
yes, that is right. Right now, someone else owns the house and the ladies live in a rental unit. We would like to buy that house to live there with our family and that means the two ladies would have to leave.
In germany, when you own a house where someone lives and you need it for yourself, you can declare what is called "own usage". Usually that means that the tenant has to leave (after a period of several months), but there can be exceptions like cases of hardship. The extreme case would be a trial. I cannot imagine going to court against a 90 year old who does not want to leave her home. Though that might be what society has agreed upon, I'm not sure it's ethically (and karmically) that easy. |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2024 : 11:43:39 PM
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| Mats, It seems like there are only a few options. You could not buy it and someone else will deal with the consequences. You could rent the rental unit to them if you don't need the space. You could reach out to them after buying and offer assistance in helping them relocate. They would know when they moved in there may come a day when the house would be sold. If handled well you could have a win win situation for everyone. |
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Mats
Germany
51 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2024 : 09:08:09 AM
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| Yes, you're right. The option I see is reaching out to them after buying and offer assistance in helping them relocate. The worst case is that they refuse to relocate which turns the whole thing in a moral dilemma. Would it be ethically okay to relocate them against their will? Of course, my initial intention is far from doing so (as we talk about intention), but circumstances might lead to this outcome. Hence, my initial intention might change during the process and come a point where I'm forced to relocate them against their will. Not wishing to do so, but doing so nevertheless. |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2024 : 8:23:11 PM
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Hi Mats,
It seems obvious that you need to talk with the current owner and let him/her know that you are a serious buyer, but the renters' issue may prevent you from signing a contract. Both the owner and the renters would be motivated to find a solution. You cannot buy a living house that you cannot inhabit. Making a purchase without clarifying the situation is not an option. If I were you, I would be prepared to walk away if you do not get a clear response.
Do the renters have a contract to continue living there for a limited/unlimited period? Is it in writing or a verbal agreement? Or you may discover that the renters are ready to move when the place is sold - but as long as it is not sold, they have no reason to change anything. The present owners have the moral and legal obligation to let you know and negotiate with the renters.
In the end, if the problem is not solved, there will be other places coming on the market - and the bad blood is not worth your money and pain.
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Dogboy
USA
2293 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2024 : 03:38:33 AM
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| Here here! Sign nothing. |
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Mats
Germany
51 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2024 : 09:17:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Blanche
It seems obvious that you need to talk with the current owner and let him/her know that you are a serious buyer, but the renters' issue may prevent you from signing a contract. Both the owner and the renters would be motivated to find a solution. You cannot buy a living house that you cannot inhabit. Making a purchase without clarifying the situation is not an option. If I were you, I would be prepared to walk away if you do not get a clear response.
Do the renters have a contract to continue living there for a limited/unlimited period? Is it in writing or a verbal agreement? Or you may discover that the renters are ready to move when the place is sold - but as long as it is not sold, they have no reason to change anything. The present owners have the moral and legal obligation to let you know and negotiate with the renters.
In the end, if the problem is not solved, there will be other places coming on the market - and the bad blood is not worth your money and pain.
Hi Blanche, we have no contact to the owner since an estate agent does all the doing. The renters have an unlimited, written contract. It may be that the estate agent has no interest in us talking to the renters or the owner, but we cannot know that for sure. We are going to check some legal steps in advance, we are not very competent in that field so far. However, what bothers me is if it was possible to handle the whole thing in an ethical way. |
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Ethics (karmic) question, please help
