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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 14 2006 : 02:49:41 AM
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| report: stretching going well, getting further back. Gagging reflex getting less. Still haven't touched the opening at the back yet. Able now to meditate with the tomgue back (kechari stage 1?) and leave it there, which I wasn't able to do before. Im taking it slowly and steadily. |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2006 : 10:00:48 AM
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Hi SparkyfoxMD:
A hint that can be helpful: The journey from stage 1 to stage 2 kechari (going behind the soft palate) is actually a thrust forward with the tongue as soon as it clears the back edge. Not up, but forward. The easiest place to do that from (shortest distance to get behind) is on the left or right side of the edge of the soft palate. The tongue can roll right in from either side, while going up the middle takes more length.
Also, keep in mind that the soft palate is not a rigid boundary. As soon as we are behind it, it folds down and forward like a natural trap door. It returns to normal position just as naturally when the tongue is removed from the pharynx. So the idea of the entrance being an opening "way back there" is somewhat of an illusion. As soon as the pharynx is penetrated, the opening expands all the way forward to the edge of the hard palate. See cross-sectional images of kechari here: http://www.aypsite.org/kechari_image1.html
Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2006 : 11:11:43 AM
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Thank you Yogani!
Im just trying to figure out what that actually feels like...I can roll the tongue to the left or right at the back but havent yet figured out the next direction. But I am persevering and I know I will get there soon! Finding your way around the architecture of the mouth is starnge cos Im trying to work things out that are back to front, upside down and the wrong way round...a sense of confusion is prevailing until the big breakthrough....then Im sure it will be...."oh thats it!" |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2006 : 12:49:39 PM
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Just to clarify: The tongue doesn't actually "roll" into stage 2 from the side. It goes in on the side and slides to the center behind the soft palate. A push forward can help once the tip of the tongue has made it behind the edge of the soft palate -- that opens the soft palate trap door (it is usually automatic, but pushing forward with the tongue helps it along). No unusual contortions involved beyond just getting there, which you almost have! 
Don't forget, finger help is perfectly legal, especially in the beginning.
The guru is in you. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2006 : 4:24:12 PM
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Yogani said: Also, keep in mind that the soft palate is not a rigid boundary. As soon as we are behind it, it folds down and forward like a natural trap door.
Another tip with this: breathing in helps open up the tunnel so that it's easier to get your tongue further in there, when going into stage 2. Hope this helps...
-Scott |
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 12:04:23 PM
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| Thanks Scott. Im not there yet but agonisingly close. Its just practise every day that will get me there I think. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2006 : 12:38:29 PM
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Hi SparkyfoxMD,
Im not there yet but agonisingly close
I know the feeling.. |
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2006 : 04:19:23 AM
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I wonder if anyone can help. I am in the process of stretching the tongue by pulling it and it is working gradually, but I am taking my time. I think it will take a while before I get to stage 2.
When I curl the tongue back, and back from a side entry, and then push with the fingers, I seem to have a real problem with gagging. Does anyone know, or can anyone suggest a way of overcoming this? Would appreciate your help, esteemed learned AYP'ers! |
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Vicki
Ireland
20 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2006 : 05:30:37 AM
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Dear SparkyfoxMD,
That is just part of the process, and for me I went through a stage of using my fingers and gagging (which wasn't very nice) before it happened that one day it just slipped into the cavity..... At times I had doubts I would ever reach stage 2, and then I tried to let go of the grasping for a result, and thought to myself I will keep going no matter whether I do or not. I let go and prayed for guidance. Just keep perservering and it will happen when the time is right. |
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2006 : 07:56:23 AM
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Dear Vicki
Thanks, thats very reassuring and very good advice. I will persevere...not that I ever thought of giving up, the prize is too great for that. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2006 : 12:53:22 PM
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Meg,
Make a separate topic of this. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2006 : 1:06:01 PM
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| I moved my topic to 'kechari problems', as it's urgent and likely to be missed here. Thanks, Shanti. |
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2006 : 11:00:52 AM
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Thanks to this wonderful thread I have finally achieved stage 2 kechari. Thanks Victor, David, Meg and others for your encouraging posts (and obviously Yogani ). I was going too far back for the longest time.
Yogani said "The journey from stage 1 to stage 2 kechari (going behind the soft palate) is actually a thrust forward with the tongue as soon as it clears the back edge. Not up, but forward. The easiest place to do that from (shortest distance to get behind) is on the left or right side of the edge of the soft palate. The tongue can roll right in from either side, while going up the middle takes more length.
Also, keep in mind that the soft palate is not a rigid boundary. As soon as we are behind it, it folds down and forward like a natural trap door."
This comment made me change my approach which allowed me to enter into stage 2. Now it makes perfect sense.(Thanks Yogani!)
I would also like to mention to others that the stretching really did help alot.
With Peace,
Paul
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2006 : 11:13:39 AM
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| That's really great news, Paul. :) Happy exploring! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 2:13:10 PM
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Thanks Paul,
quote:
I was going too far back for the longest time.
Yogani said "The journey from stage 1 to stage 2 kechari (going behind the soft palate) is actually a thrust forward with the tongue as soon as it clears the back edge. Not up, but forward. The easiest place to do that from (shortest distance to get behind) is on the left or right side of the edge of the soft palate. The tongue can roll right in from either side, while going up the middle takes more length.
Also, keep in mind that the soft palate is not a rigid boundary. As soon as we are behind it, it folds down and forward like a natural trap door."
After you pointed out that you were going far too back.. I changed my approach.. re-read Yogani's suggestion above.. that really did help.. I have found the nasal passage too..
Cannnot enter it yet.. my tongue does not fit into my nasal passage  .. but now I know where it is.. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jun 25 2006 2:28:13 PM |
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2006 : 4:51:35 PM
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Shanti,
If you have found the nasal passage then you should enter pretty quickly. Last Monday I found it and could barely enter using my finger. By Tuesday, I could hold my tongue in for a couple of seconds. By Friday, I was in completly. Saturday I was able to hold it in stage 2 for about 5 minutes. What a sense of accomplishment!
Keep us posted on your progress.
With Peace,
Paul |
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 04:00:47 AM
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| Wow you lot! Im gonna try and catch up! |
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2006 : 4:12:07 PM
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I know most of you in this thread are light years ahead of me with kechari, but anyhow...I have finally worked up the courage to snip - and though I was a bit queasy, I survived it!
It's amazing how even just a little snip can let you go so much farther.
Also, here are some interesting X-Rayys of the tongue placement before and after kechari
http://www.siddhasiddhanta.com/khechari.html |
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2006 : 10:43:50 AM
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Ya, that video is pretty amazing - he does it so effortlessly.
Well, I have lost my second virginity 2 days ago! Last night I went into stage 2 for the second time and was amazed a how much furhter up my tongue went. I also gargled and rinsed my mouth with some sesame oil - maybe the extra lubrification helped it ease its way further up more easily. I honestly never though I would reach stage 2 in this lifetime and am surprised how little time it actually took. All it takes is a little perseverence. |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2006 : 11:00:50 AM
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Hi All:
Congratulations ycloutier, and to all who have entered kechari stage 2 lately!
The "tongue swallowing" video was actually first posted by Rabar in this very topic way back on August 10, 2005. Here are a few comments on it that I offered then:
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Hello Rabar:
Thank you for that.
However, it is not swallowing the tongue. It is going up to kechari stage 2 (and possibly 3). You can tell because the soft palate on top is being pushed forward from behind. If the tongue were going down the gullet, the soft palate would not be pushed forward because there would be nothing behind it. Of course, one can call kechari stages 2-4 "swallowing the tongue" and most would not know the difference. "Swallowing," most people can understand. But up into the center of the head via the nasal pharynx? Few can imagine that, even though it is much easier to do than swallowing of the tongue.
Perhaps this young man has a future in yoga. He has a gift. The question is, will he have the bhakti to go with it? (and take on the additional practices that are necessary -- deep meditation, spinal breathing, etc.)
It is an excellent video of entering stage 2. Thank you!
The guru is in you.
PS -- See these cross-sectional sketches for perspective http://www.aypsite.org/kechari_image1.html
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2006 : 3:28:58 PM
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| Yogani, I may have gotten ahead of myself (though what I am achieveing is still relatively groundbreaking for me). I am going in seemingly only through one side(the left side) - the tongue doesn't go completely back behind the dangly thing - perhaps because my tongue still needs some length to get to that point. So then behind the "hymen", it isn't two orifices that can be either entered from left or right, but one single orifice? So presumably if I were to try to swing my tongue over to the other side, it should just slide over? |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2006 : 4:09:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ycloutier2000
...but one single orifice? So presumably if I were to try to swing my tongue over to the other side, it should just slide over?
Hi Y:
Yes, that's right. However, once behind the soft palate on the side, or anywhere, pushing forward with the tongue will open the soft palate and automatically bring the tongue to the center. So it is not mainly a sideways movement of the tongue, but a forward one that does the deed. Then keep going forward and you will reach the septum (secret spot) and nasal passages which sit right on top of the back edge of the hard palate.
The guru is in you.
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2006 : 4:20:56 PM
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| Thanks Yogani..That clears things up. I can't wait to try it! |
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sparkyfoxMD
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2006 : 02:50:38 AM
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| Thanks...the oil trick sounds like a good one. Im off to try it! |
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Kechari Mudra
