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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 2:37:54 PM
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As mentioned in this post here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=9142#80498 I had a fairly drastic release/opening yesterday. The effects are still persisting to this moment now. What I would like to talk about here in *this* thread however, is "The Great Unknowing" and "Delusions of Purpose."
As this opening began to manifest (it probably took a good 3-5 minutes to fully manifest into what has been constant ever since) I lost all sense of knowing anything. There was just a falling..... a falling into "The Great Unknowing." In this space I know nothing and words are basically useless.... it is extremely liberating. Even the mundane, day to day stuff, is completely new, fresh and being experienced like it is the very first time. There is an innocence and unaware-ness, and yet a deep clarity. As I fell into The Great Unknowing I began to get glimpses of what I could call "the future," or perhaps "my purpose" or "my karma." But resting in that place of Unknowing I realized that these "glimpses" were what I would call "Delusions of Purpose"..... I can't KNOW what I seem to know. (Arg...  I'm pretty sure none of this is making any sense.... words are so inadaquate. It's like trying to physically build a cathderal with no opposable thumbs.... very difficult. Anyway, I will continue to try) So I am having glimpses of why things are happening the way they are.... I am seeing my "role" I guess.... but seeing it from very far away, like from the top of the Universe or something. But as I inquire into this "knowing of my role" and what I am doing, I realize that these are just "Delusions of Purpose." I have no way of *KNOWING* if I am clear or not. It became very hard to reconcile the clarity of Knowing, with the clarity of UNKnowing. They are seemingly opposed, but exist in the same space. (GOD this is hard to put to words. So hard in fact, I am just going to leave this here and see if anyone responds before potentially continuing).
Love!
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 3:59:29 PM
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Carson,
It sounds like you are getting near to the edge. Even though it is hard to find the words, it sounds beautiful. I have also found the words difficult. I posted to you a question in a different section. The question was around flows, but the indescribable that simplified to the question is similar. Your post seems to reflect the "Why?". Where mine came out as more of a "How?"
I think it is best to leave it as a sense of "Wonder".
Peace & Love. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 4:13:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I lost all sense of knowing anything. There was just a falling..... a falling into "The Great Unknowing." In this space I know nothing and words are basically useless.... it is extremely liberating. Even the mundane, day to day stuff, is completely new, fresh and being experienced like it is the very first time. There is an innocence and unaware-ness, and yet a deep clarity.
Carson
I read what you have written and if resonates with me as authentic, it resonates with me as something I am glad I read, I am glad you wrote, I am gladder and gladder as I type away
Peace,
Be |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 9:00:13 PM
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Carson,
I don't really know how to respond, but I feel like I wanna say...... God bless you. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2011 : 11:41:41 PM
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My latest delusion of purpose was i thought that i as a person could change the world, through activism. When i hold this thought, my present reality shows me that i can change my reality anytime i choose (by changing how i am being), but i can't change the world. And i don't need to. Who am i to say how the world should be?...no.. no...too much mind, with a lot of energy........back to DM.  |
Edited by - chas on Mar 02 2011 12:29:55 AM |
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Jaycee
United Kingdom
48 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 09:32:50 AM
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CarsonZi, I think you may be on the cusp of something very beautiful here.  Keep us posted. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 10:13:15 AM
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Hi Everyone and thanks for the comments....
It persists.
I don't know what has changed, but something has. Life is seen with new eyes now. Life is felt differently (more in the heart) then before.
Life is not all peaches and fluff (on the outside) though. For example, I had my car breakdown last night after work (this seems to happen everytime there is an opening). I was stuck at the office for an hour and a half longer then I "should" have been before someone came and helped me boost (and fix) my car. Usually this would have thrown me directly back into tormented thoughts and suffering (although I probably would have denied it). Yesterday, there was no suffering. Just a loving embrace of each and every moment despite the circumstances.
I am also having to deal with some tooth problems. I have an irrational fear of the dentist and have been avoiding getting my wisdom teeth taken out for many many years now. But a few days ago one of the wisdom teeth started hurting very badly and I have had a mouth/jaw/head/throat ache ever since. But now, this "pain" is not identified with at all (I know that sounds ultra cliche, but it's actually the reality right now.... I even forget sometimes that one whole side of my head is throbbing). Perhaps it is the internal ecstasy that overshadows the pain, I don't know... but either way, I feel elated and overjoyed regardless of having a $hitty car and a face that feels like it's about to explode.  I feel extremely grateful to simply be alive.
Love!
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2011 : 11:39:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I don't know what has changed, but something has. Life is seen with new eyes now. Life is felt differently (more in the heart) then before.
Carson,
This resonates with me. I'm glad you started this discussion. Sometimes I see more through the heart, and sometimes more through the mind. The mind has some clever ideas. It plans. However, acting from the mind, in my experience, is not nearly as helpful as acting from the heart seems to be. If i let the heart take me wherever it is drawn, good things might happen. It is spontaneous, in the moment..My mind is idealistic, lives in time. Often, reality will thwart its will. So, I hopefully I can just let go...in the moment...over and over...and let Love's will be done.
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Edited by - chas on Mar 02 2011 8:39:15 PM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2011 : 02:41:11 AM
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hello CarsonZi
ur having wonderful days and the best is yet to come i am sure...
"I even forget sometimes that one whole side of my head is throbbing"....the thoughts are fixed more and more on the Self...so much that everything else seems secondary and unimportant....inside you are spiritually buisy...
the same forgetting we also experience in all tasks that have to be done in one day....they are so so many tasks...but they just happen by themselves effortlessly....
lightness ...clarity...feeling of being carried gently by the waves of existence altought some tasks are "tough and painful"... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2011 : 07:35:33 AM
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I think there are different kinds of purposes. There are the delusions of grandeur your ego invents, like saving the world. And there is the reason you are here doing what you do everyday which is much more mundane.
Sometimes I have visions of the future - I see myself doing strange things I thought I would never do. Then a few months later i am doing those things almost exactly like the vision. But I had no desire for it, and had not taken any action or thoughts toward it at all.
So I think we have a purpose outside what our ego thinks, that is quite valid. |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2011 : 12:39:57 PM
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| I agree, E...For me, my delusions were not so much save the world..they weren't that grand..It was more like a role that i saw for myself including showing activists how to be active in a more positive way..Or uniting progressive/left activists with libertarian/right activists..Or whatever.. But the more i think about "my role", the less effective are my actions. My role, if i were to consider it as such, presents itself in each moment. Recently, i felt compelled to go to the steps of the state capitol and be active. That was in my heart. It turned out well..and i made some new friends.. Later, my ideas and thoughts pointed me toward Madison, Wi to do the same there. I didn't make it....i got as far as Chicago...i failed in that..but i learned something. So im not saying we have no role, no purpose or anything like that. |
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 07:42:44 AM
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Superb! Thank you for sharing Carson.
Trying to convert direct seeing to knowing/understanding creates delusion. You see what you see, and you don't see what you don't see, all in clarity. Unfortunately, you can't question it, or analyse it.
What is, is, and what ain't, ain't.
A great Zen Master once said that acceptance of irreconcilable opposites is a prerequisite for the way.
The truth is, our expectations are always wrong.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 09:41:17 AM
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Hi Everyone and thanks for all the input!
@Etherfish: In this particular experience, when the multiple simultaneous "visions" happened, I saw the future.... and in that seeing, I saw "my karma." I saw the role I am playing in this game. But can I ever actually KNOW the future? Can I actually KNOW my role? Can the future even exist? This is what I meant by delusions of purpose. Sure, I am fulfilling a purpose, but can I ever KNOW what that purpose is? Not with the mind. And words can never describe it. I can BE that purpose, but I can't KNOW that purpose as it is always ever unfolding. Thinking otherwise is delusional. Hope that clarifies a little.
The past few days since this experience (now a little over 3.5 days) have been an extreme roller coaster. For almost 2 straight days afterwards I was completely high. High on life in a most extreme way. It was like being reborn. I had fresh eyes and I saw Life for the first time. It was like Yogani describes in his "Getting Enlightenment" lesson... I was an innocent child once again. But the past day and a half have been absolutely depressive and painful on many many levels. This depression and down-ness have been witnessed like never before though. There is no attachment to it, it is just being watched and sat with. It is allowed to be what it is, no judgment, no stories. It is free to leave or stay as it needs to. And the darkness has started to lift a bit. This morning feels a lot better then yesterday morning for sure. But, I am not attached to the good feelings same as I am not attached to the bad feelings. It is all transient, and is allowed to come and go as it pleases. No trying to control or manipulate my current state of being, just acceptance and allowing whatever needs to manifest to manifest.
What a journey Life is.
Love!
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 09:46:39 AM
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Dear Carson,
I am happy for you, hearing your words, just because of how you describe your witnessing of all that comes and goes.
Thank you |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 2:42:19 PM
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You are Light, peering into the darkness.
Love [img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 6:48:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think there are different kinds of purposes.
Today I was listening to Adyashanti - End of Your World. (not trying to plug his product) And he says when someone is fully awakened they are above purpose. Purpose is what the ego wants. He went on to say that is why some people fall into difficulty because the Self doesn't need purpose - it is purpose!
We need a purpose and meaning to function in the world, right? Wrong! That's just the ego trying to push the witness off the throne, and get back in control!
He explains it better than me.
When I get to that stage of having no purpose I guess I will just lock my self into my room and play video games until the end of my days. Hang on - I'm doing that now  . |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2011 : 7:20:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by woosa
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think there are different kinds of purposes.
Today I was listening to Adyashanti - End of Your World. (not trying to plug his product) And he says when someone is fully awakened they are above purpose. Purpose is what the ego wants. He went on to say that is why some people fall into difficulty because the Self doesn't need purpose - it is purpose!
We need a purpose and meaning to function in the world, right? Wrong! That's just the ego trying to push the witness off the throne, and get back in control!
He explains it better than me.
When I get to that stage of having no purpose I guess I will just lock my self into my room and play video games until the end of my days. Hang on - I'm doing that now .
Hi Woosa,
"Maybe maybe not."
I've heard/seen Adya having this discussion with people at live satsangs, and it usually goes something like this:
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Q. But you say there's no purpose in enlightenment .... so, then, why do you do this - teach?
Adya: (Shrugs) I have no idea.
Q. But ... but .... but ....
Adya: I really don't; I know you can't understand that right now, but I don't.
**
With the fixed idea-self (aka ego) out of the way, opened up, or however that part can be described ... anything is possible ... not only circumstances that we don't imagine ... but circumstances that we can't imagine.
And that is, quite possibly, the "awesomest" thing of all.
As Adyashanti has said, "It's like being a kid on Christmas morning, and getting ready to go open presents, and not knowing exactly what it's going to be, but knowing it's going to be great!!"
People have asked him "but doesn't it ... complete, or hit a plateau, or whatever ....?"
Answering, Adya has gotten as animated as I've ever seen him (he's usually really "mellow", as you see in his videos) ..... and he says something like:
"It NEVER stops!!"
And I can attest: he's right.
"Purpose-shmurpose."
You may play video games for the rest of your life, you may fulfill your wildest dreams of achievement, or you may do and become things in life that are more amazing than you can never-imagine ... but whatever you do or don't do .... it'll be perfect ... and you'll know it utterly.
It's not the form or content that make it all so awesome; it's the freedom.
Wholeheartedly,
Kirtanman
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2011 : 02:02:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by woosa
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think there are different kinds of purposes.
Today I was listening to Adyashanti - End of Your World. (not trying to plug his product) And he says when someone is fully awakened they are above purpose. Purpose is what the ego wants. He went on to say that is why some people fall into difficulty because the Self doesn't need purpose - it is purpose!
We need a purpose and meaning to function in the world, right? Wrong! That's just the ego trying to push the witness off the throne, and get back in control!
He explains it better than me.
When I get to that stage of having no purpose I guess I will just lock my self into my room and play video games until the end of my days. Hang on - I'm doing that now .
It might be helpful for one to consider the issue to be one of intent. For example, consider samyama.. Does one have a purpose when releasing sutras into silence? I would say maybe so...there is consistently intention... From my perspective, intention seems to come from deeper within than purpose does. Intention is more of a feeling. Purpose feels more story-like. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2011 : 5:18:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
As Adyashanti has said, "It's like being a kid on Christmas morning, and getting ready to go open presents, and not knowing exactly what it's going to be, but knowing it's going to be great!!"
People have asked him "but doesn't it ... complete, or hit a plateau, or whatever ....?"
Answering, Adya has gotten as animated as I've ever seen him (he's usually really "mellow", as you see in his videos) ..... and he says something like:
"It NEVER stops!!
Adya's example of a kid's pre-gift-opening bliss struck a chord with me. I remember that bliss from way back when (before adolescence), and, remembering it, I can feel the resonance now with an ongoing part of my experience. I read the teaching a couple of days ago, and it has been a pleasantly sticky idea in that whenever I think of it, I become aware of that dimension of experience. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2011 : 11:34:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
"It NEVER stops!!
Adya's example of a kid's pre-gift-opening bliss struck a chord with me. I remember that bliss from way back when (before adolescence), and, remembering it, I can feel the resonance now with an ongoing part of my experience. I read the teaching a couple of days ago, and it has been a pleasantly sticky idea in that whenever I think of it, I become aware of that dimension of experience.
Update: Take me out of the ""It NEVER stops!!" club.
It stopped for a while this morning. I noticed I was no longer feeling such an energetic/experiential connection to the example of a kid's pre-gift-opening bliss. I am feeling it now, but earlier today, not so.
A similar, but more adult, comparison is to describe "bliss" is "pre-orgasmic." I like that metaphor too, and I often feel IT in my own experience, but sometimes I notice I am not feeling it. Like right now, I am more into the kid-opening-gift bliss. |
Edited by - bewell on Mar 07 2011 11:37:56 AM |
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chas
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2011 : 01:06:57 AM
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| Be, i'm glad to hear you're doing well :) it seems like you're on to something great... |
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kevincann
USA
335 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2011 : 01:48:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
"It NEVER stops!!
Adya's example of a kid's pre-gift-opening bliss struck a chord with me. I remember that bliss from way back when (before adolescence), and, remembering it, I can feel the resonance now with an ongoing part of my experience. I read the teaching a couple of days ago, and it has been a pleasantly sticky idea in that whenever I think of it, I become aware of that dimension of experience.
Update: Take me out of the ""It NEVER stops!!" club.
It stopped for a while this morning. I noticed I was no longer feeling such an energetic/experiential connection to the example of a kid's pre-gift-opening bliss. I am feeling it now, but earlier today, not so.
A similar, but more adult, comparison is to describe "bliss" is "pre-orgasmic." I like that metaphor too, and I often feel IT in my own experience, but sometimes I notice I am not feeling it. Like right now, I am more into the kid-opening-gift bliss.
We feel "low" when we fall out of alignment (grace), or simly run low on Ojas the upward part of the nectar cycle that supports all higher consciousness. It is that simple. Ask anybody trained in the nectar cycles functioning; I'm sure Yogani knows this like the back of his hand. Fortunately, whether "we" are "up" or "down" it doesn't matter.
Live from the silence.
With much love, and appreciation for my brothers and sisters,
Kevin Cann |
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The Great Unknowing/Delusions of Purpose
