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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 01:49:09 AM
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Hi everyone,
1.
For each of the AYP practices, I can find some other sources talking about them-- except samyama (which usually means the state, not the practice described here). Is this something invented by yogani? If not, is it documented in written form somewhere else?
2.
I can feel the inner silence during most of my meditation sessions, and I'm stable in my practice. Is it a good time to add samyama now? I remember yogani said there would be no harm to do it too early. But how to determine whether it's GOOD to add it? (actually, this means that i'll have to drop some asanas since I'm already giving my maximum affordable amount of time to yoga)
3.
Will samyama help with cultivating inner silence? Or does it help only with moving it outward?
Alvin |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 10:02:40 AM
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Hi Alvin:
1. No, not invented by me. It has been around for thousands of years. Nothing in AYP is new except the simplification and integration of effective methods across the limbs of yoga , open source approach, and development of self-pacing. Samyama is documented very little anywhere (except regurgitating theory) beyond the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, and what little it is taught can be very divergent in method. As usual, I go for the easiest, most effective method encountered.
2. It is okay to start samyama as long as you have some inner silence and are stable in all you have taken on already. Make sure to take plenty of rest at the end of your session. If you are premature in taking up samyama, it is not hazardous, there will just not be much effect.
3. Yes, samyama will both cultivate and stabilize inner silence in our nervous system, in addition to increasing its presence in our daily activity -- improving both the purity and power of our intentions.
The guru is in you.
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 10:47:41 AM
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Thanks for the reply, yogani. Indeed I'm refering to the method of samyama hre, which I could not read from anywhere else. But the method makes sense to me. Just curious to know its origin.
Another question: is it better to translate the sutras into my own language first? Since, unlike meditation, I think in this case it's not the quality of sound vibration that matter. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 11:09:31 AM
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Hi Alvin,
It is suggested that for the sutras in samyama you use your most intimate language, the language that goes deepest in your heart, whatever it may be. Except for the word "Akasha" in the last sutra, which should be kept as it is in sanskrit. |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 11:27:05 AM
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Yes, that's right. The seed of meaning in samyama is language-related, so translations are appropriate in this case. Also remember that it is a feeling. Fuzzy feeling is the code that disappears into inner silence with each repetition. The effectiveness of samyama is in the letting go ... as is the case with so many things in yoga, and in life. All of this is the cultivation and expression of inner silence in our daily life.
The guru is in you.
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 02:37:35 AM
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Hi yogani,
Thank you for the reply. I think I'll have a hard time translating them into Chinese. Some of the sutras are difficult to translate beautifully in two words. Maybe I'll look into the Chinese philosophy texts or poetry to get some similar terms in Chinese.
quote:
If you are premature in taking up samyama, it is not hazardous, there will just not be much effect.
3. Yes, samyama will both cultivate and stabilize inner silence in our nervous system, in addition to increasing its presence in our daily activity -- improving both the purity and power of our intentions.
I still don't quite understand: so if I don't have enough inner silence, will practising samyama cultivate inner silence for me, at least? (may be very much like adding a few minutes of meditation?) In other words, when you say "there will just not be much effect", do you ONLY mean the effect of expanding inner silence outward (so that I'll still be cultivating some inner silence, rather than sitting there doing nothing useful) ??
Alvin |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2006 : 09:49:59 AM
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Hi Alvin:
Some resident inner silence present from deep meditation primes the pump of samyama. In order for samyama to cultivate more inner silence and move it outward, there must be some to begin with. That is why we do samyama right after meditation -- best time for stillness. In order for this to be, deep meditation is best well stabilized -- at least a few months from starting. Otherwise samyama will be kind of like pumping an unprimed pump. Not the end of the world, but not very efficient either. Once we do get started with samyama, regular practice is the key to good progress. This is true of all the practices, subject to the regulation of self-pacing, of course.
The guru is in you.
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 8:21:48 PM
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I never did samyama unless I was really deeply silent from my meditation and then I just naturally carried it forward to samyama.
But I remembered Yogani saying that "some" silence is necessary for samyama. And this morning, my meditation was not bustling with thoughts, but I had many more than I would like creeping in. For the first time, I did samyama anyway, thinking what the harm?
And it was beautiful. With each sutra, I went deeper, and softer into this profoundly silent place. And new sutras just came forward. I didn't want to stop, but I made myself.
I won't hold myself back again just because I didn't feel the meditation was as deep as it has been in the past.... What a way to start your day... 
Life, Light and Love and Laughter,
Kathy |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 9:17:19 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Also remember that it is a feeling. Fuzzy feeling is the code that disappears into inner silence with each repetition.
Hello Yogani, we have not talked for a while... the instruction on the level of 'feeling' makes sense for those sutra's that are somewhat feeling based. What are your thoughts of other sutras that are not emotional/feeling based? Let me know if you care to have me list them out... is there is another approach you think is applicable? One set feeling based, another __________ based?
Thanks again for addressing this.
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Apr 02 2006 9:47:24 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2006 : 10:51:19 PM
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I've been thinking on those. Here's what I came up with:
Radiance: The feeling after you have layed in the sun.
Unity: The feeling of teamwork.
Health: the feeling you get when you have finally gotten over an illness.
Strength: The feeling you get when a muscle can do something that seemed impossible a week or two ago.
Abundance: the feeling you get when you are giving things away that you don't care about, but the receiver really can use them.
Wisdom: The feeling you get when things turn out well because of a decision that nobody else agreed with.
Akasha: The feeling of imagined weightlessness, or underwater when you can lift 1000 pounds with one hand, and your body won't stay down on the bottom. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 12:05:05 AM
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I hate to always be the remonstrative prig, but, Etherfish, I'd strongly suggest dropping the tendency to delve into concepts. Say the words and get out of the way.
In all this AYP stuff, resist the urge to fill in details with your mind. Yoga is subtractive, not additive. The fill-in mentality is 180 degrees in the wrong direction of where you want to go. Yogani didn't write AYP simple because he's unsophisticated. Read his lessons, groove on the simplicity, and let your inner awareness corroborate that detail, conceptuality, and all manner of "filling in" is nothing but needless digression.
Less insight, more practice. Like brushing your teeth. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 03 2006 12:07:46 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 08:29:39 AM
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| I am answering Frank's post that some of the sutras are not feeling based, and others are. I'm suggesting that they all are. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 08:52:43 AM
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I may be misunderstanding, and/or this may be a different strokes for other folks thing, but I, for my part, try to avoid the "feeling" issue entirely.
Arthur Treacher's great line about acting was "Say the words, take the money, and go home." That's how I approach samyama. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 10:30:09 AM
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Here is what the lesson says..
quote:
In your easy silence, pick up, just once, the fuzziest feeling of the
word "Love" in your own language. Don't deliberately make a clear
pronunciation, or mental images of this or that scene or situation
that represent Love to you. Just have a faint remembrance of Love,
and then let go into your silence, the easy silence you are in as you
pick up the faint meaning of Love. Don't contemplate Love or analyze
it during samyama. Don't think about it at all. Just come to it once
in a faint, subtle way, and then let go into silence. It is a subtle
feeling of Love we are coming to, nothing more, and letting it go.
It seems to be somewhere between what Jim is saying and what Ether is saying. Ever since Jim asked me to just say the word and let it go, that is what I have been doing. I have re-read this chapter many many many times to figure out if what I am doing is right... Yogani said.. "less is more". So I guess it is close to what Jim is saying.. but somehow I am always left wondering.. why Yogani says to pick "the fuzziest feeling of the word "Love" ...and I am not picking any feeling.. just the word. I enjoy Shamyama, so I don't want to be doing it wrong.. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 10:51:25 AM
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Hi Shanti,
I have had this question also and it was discussed here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=854
Yogani says:
"When we pick up a sutra in samyama the meaning is implicit in the faint feeling of the sound of it deep in the mind".
What I have found after practicing samyama for a while, is the sound of the sutra somewhat of itself creates a sense of the quality inherent in it, so when I say for example "Love", there is a faint sense of it too. I think that is all we want, that we should not try to create a feeling of it. |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 11:09:35 AM
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Hari OM
~~~~~~~
Folks, for what its worth...that is how I was taught... faint, fuzzy, 'impression' of the sutra. The reason of my question is simple... has someone found a better way? IF Yes, I will try, if no, back to the methodology I was taught. This goes under the "A" in AYP. Yet, that said, my success rate of consistently getting the results is less then desirable, hense, if a better way is possible, I am happy to try.
YET ---> I find 'trying' to pick up a feeling more effort, and that does not fit the bill for simple and innocent, so I have not pursued this appoach.
Lessons learned over the long haul of samyama:
- Keep it simple
- faint idea: this is how 'feeling' comes in, but at the faintest impression, it almost 'feels' like a feeling
- don't chase a word or thought ' ohhh I could have done that one better, let me be fainter or simpler' just complicates the process
- Expect Nothing : expecting a result creates anticipation, and the loss of innocence. this applies to the sutras or to meditation.
Perhaps that helps, maybe not, but my intent was all 'round being simple. I wish Patanjali would have given more clues here, but its intentional on his part to be brief, e.g. the definition of sutra = stitch. Wish he could of 'stitched' a little more!
agnir satyam rtam brhat
Frank in San-Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Apr 03 2006 11:32:58 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 11:17:26 AM
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Etherfish said:
Abundance: the feeling you get when you are giving things away that you don't care about, but the receiver really can use them.
Thanks Ether -- this is the best definition yielding the real spritiual meaning of 'abundance' I have seen.
It beats the commong meaning of a three-acre home, two cars, an SUV and a high-density television.
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 11:32:31 AM
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Hi All:
Yes, that is it, Weaver and Jim. The meaning is implicit in the word(s) and the "faint feeling" is for the word(s), not the meaning. Then we let it go. So, it is not that some sutras are more feeling oriented than others. The picking up of the sutra is not about the nature of the content. That is implicit. It is exactly the same procedure for all sutras. In time, operating more in inner silence becomes a habit in all of our thinking, and our thoughts in daily activity naturally become more evolutionary and powerful.
I hope that answers your question, Frank.
Kathy, wonderful experience with samyama. And you are right -- by "having some inner silence present," it is not meant we should practice samyama only when we feel that we have some inner silence. Once we decide to practice samyama, it should become a part of our regular sitting practices. Like with all the practices, regularity over time is the key to success with samyama, and it will not always be the kind of experience we'd like to write home about, due to purification going on. It is the same with samyama as with all the practices -- a long and winding road that leads home, with the scenery always changing, gradually getting better and better. 
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 2:18:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Yogani says to pick "the fuzziest feeling of the word "Love" ...and I am not picking any feeling.. just the word.
He means (i'm pretty certain) the feeling of the word itself, not the feeling the word provokes.
Again, say the word and get out of the way.
woops....didn't see yogani's response before I wrote this. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 03 2006 2:19:57 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2006 : 2:54:24 PM
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quote:
What I have found after practicing samyama for a while, is the sound of the sutra somewhat of itself creates a sense of the quality inherent in it, so when I say for example "Love", there is a faint sense of it too. I think that is all we want, that we should not try to create a feeling of it.
Thanks Weaver.. that really helped. 
quote:
The meaning is implicit in the word(s) and the "faint feeling" is for the word(s), not the meaning.
Yogani, Now I get it
quote:
Again, say the word and get out of the way.
Thanks Jim. |
Edited by - Shanti on Apr 03 2006 4:43:40 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 08:18:40 AM
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| Do I seem to see a common thread in the answers to a lot of different questions? Seems like they're the same answer but just worded differently. "Don't waste your time thinking about it; just do the practices." Not a problem for me. My default state is a man of few words. Maybe we just chat on the forum so we are reassured that other people are on the same path. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Apr 04 2006 08:21:33 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 08:35:12 AM
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Hi Ether:
Yes, we humans have a gift for making the simplest things so complicated. It must be why Jesus said, "You must become as little children to enter the kingdom..."
We could talk about it forever here in ten-thousand ways, and not one word would be wasted. So great are the benefits of simplicity.
And ... there are some new perspectives coming. Always new perspectives.
The guru is in you.
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questions on samyama
