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weaver
832 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 25 2006 : 10:40:50 AM
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Hello everyone,
1. I just started with samyama, it feels good, and I was wondering if the word of the sutra is to be picked up (plus the sense of it), or if we just pick up the meaning or sense of the sutra, without intention to pick up the word?
2. Even if we think the word faintly inside, the last one seems long and cumbersome, wouldn't it be okay to just silently think "Akasha" while picking up the meaning, if we know that it means "lightness of air"?
3. Also, is it okay to get a short visualization or image of for example piles of gold when doing Abundance, or should we not intend to visualize anything?
4. Is the order as the sutras are listed in Lesson 150 important, or could we find our own order if we find it more logical if we stick to it? |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2006 : 11:42:18 AM
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Hi Weaver:
When we pick up a sutra in samayama the meaning is implicit in the faint feeling of the sound of it deep in the mind. We do not contemplate it during our practice, as that pulls us to the surface of the mind. The idea is to pick up the impulse of the sound of the sutra and let it go in inner silence. That is where the power comes from in samyama -- inner silence. That is where the power comes from in all we do. We just have not been accessing it directly until now. Inner silence is also where all divine love and moral conduct come from, so this practice is morally self-regulating.
"Akasha - Lightness of Air" has two components, and they should be preserved in use of the sutra. One is akasha, which actualizes the body as empty space (it is, yes?). The other is lightness which moves the body -- or at least creates the inner impulse for that, which has great inner purifying effect. It is like blowing up a balloon (step one) and then giving it a push to float through the air (step two). The sutra becomes easy with some practice -- we do it without undue delay between the two parts. It is one sutra. Like every other practice we begin in AYP, there is a clunky stage with samyama too. It will pass.
Abundance is best used in the genral sense of, well, abundance. It applies to many things, not just material wealth, though you may get that pile of gold too.  But more important is the purification in the nervous system that promotes abundance of divine flow in all that is manifest everywhere. Samyama practice is both individual and cosmic, promoting the divine flow from within us -- from inner cosmic to outer cosmic. How important are levitation and piles of gold compared to that? Not very ... we treat them like scenery if and when they occur, favoring the far greater opening of outpouring divine love into the world, which comes from letting go of the sutras into inner silence, and letting go of their results too. A channel does not concern itself with the before and the after. The ecstatic bliss of becoming the channel itself is more than enough.
As for selection and order of sutras, what you see is my best list based on covering the full range of body, heart, mind and all within and around us. Obviously, sutras can be selected and arranged many ways. Whatever one is using for samyama, I encourage that a steady twice-daily routine of samyama after deep meditation with the same list be adhered to. Otherwise we will not be going deep. Remember the well-digging analogy? Better to dig deep in one place to find water than to dig many small dry holes all over the place. The list of sutras, all together, is one digging in one place. We'd like to go deep there, and take all of those avenues of purification and opening into inner silence with us. If we do, we will find all of our desires coming to fruition more smoothly in daily life and an increasing divine quality naturally coming up within them.
The guru is in you.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2006 : 12:16:54 PM
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| Thank you Yogani for your comprehensive description. As I gather then, the sutra is picked up as a sound, like a mantra, (but only once and very faintly), except that we assign a very faint feeling or sense to it also, but without analyzing it. Like with Love, we pick up the sound of the word and associate it with the sense of love too. |
Edited by - weaver on Feb 25 2006 12:18:00 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2006 : 12:21:23 PM
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Just to inject another word....Yogani sometimes uses the word "fuzzy" when he wants to describe a faint process. If "the faint feeling of the sound" doesn't do it for you, try "the fuzzy feeling of the sound".
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2006 : 1:07:28 PM
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quote:
favoring the far greater opening of outpouring divine love into the world, which comes from letting go of the sutras into inner silence, and letting go of their results too
Yogani (or others), would it be safe to describe this as a process of temptation? Sort of like the way energy-increasing work at first moves downward toward sexuality...but more profound results go to those who choose not to take the easy bait, opting to move the energy upward?
When I do samyama, and a feeling creeps in (maybe it's a thought, but it feels more like an attitude or feeling) that I'm doing, like, incantations for beneficial result (i.e. the pile of gold), I just let go of it all (the attitude AND the concern about it). And I experience a potent bit of bliss-of-opening. And I let go of that bliss, too. And if, after letting the sutra sound, I feel something returning to me in the silent aftermath (before the next word), I let that go, as well (to similar effect).
i'm reaching the conclusion that in meditation we learn to let go, and in samyama, we learn to let go in specific ways....all permutations and flavors of temptation are presented to us, and we practice letting it all dissolve into silence. In the meditation book, you refer to the "Sirens" (great term!), and samyama seems like Siren resistence training to me. And it's great....letting it all go feels far better than any pot of gold. The result is the needing of nothing, and that's freedom. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 25 2006 3:32:33 PM |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2006 : 6:02:06 PM
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Hi Jim:
Yes, that is a good way to look at it, as long as we don't become obsessed with letting go, which is a hanging on. 
Some inner silence (the witness) cultivated in deep meditation takes care of it automatically. That is why having some resident (abiding) inner silence is the main prerequisite for samyama. Then there is no intentional letting go. We just pick up the sutra (faint or fuzzy), and our resident inner silence swallows it. After weeks, months and years of practice (digging the well in one place) we have the habit of samyama and all of our thoughts, feelings and actions spring from inner silence. Then we are living from the source, so to speak. Nothing to hang on to, nothing to let go of. Just a divine flow and endless merging of inner and outer.
For those who are jumping in here, take a look at lesson 150 and the lessons that follow it for details on samyama practice. Lesson 149 ties samyama in with the rest of what we are doing in AYP
The guru is in you.
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Ajita
Netherlands
19 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 07:55:31 AM
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Namaste Yogani,
With surprise and interest I read the messages and your lessons about Samyama. Being a practitioner of Samyama since many years I am delighted you put this most important part of Yoga into the publicity. With most of your knowledge I agree, but for some I think my own could prove to be useful for everybody. Are you interested?
Yours friendly from Holland,
Shri Yogacharya Ajita
Shri Yogacharya Ajita |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 09:17:41 AM
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Hello Ajita:
Yes, your sharing is very welcome. However, if the method of samyama you teach is substantially different from the approach we use in AYP, it would be good to put it under "other systems of practice" so as not to confuse readers (and newcomers especially) between different methods. Perhaps call it "Ajita's Method of Samayama," or something like that. Same with meditation or any other teachings you would like to share that involve a different method. In that way, there is room for all approaches here.
The guru is in in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 10:34:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani99
Some inner silence (the witness) cultivated in deep meditation takes care of it automatically. That is why having some resident (abiding) inner silence is the main prerequisite for samyama. Then there is no intentional letting go.
I've been thinking about this all week, and it's really helpful for understanding the full function of inner silence in samyama...particularly when you add the word "witness". The witness can't absorb or grasp or cling, so I can see that it's the right approach for samyama (but then I don't understand why you liked my analogy...maybe you were just being kind!). I'd previously had an incomplete understanding of "inner silence", but "witness" fills it in nicely. I think I need to go read through the lessons again!
Would you say it's natural to notice the witness before we recognize ourselves to BE the witness? |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 11:13:43 AM
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Hi Jim:
Yes, the witness is first noticed naturally in relation to activity, especially with some intense activity going on, which increases the contrast between inner and outer. Even those who are not doing practices will clearly "witness" an accident or other traumatic event, noticing the part inside that is untouched. The truth is we are always the witness. It is our very consciousness, after all. As we are cultivating inner silence in deep meditation, a greater contrast comes into our awareness where we notice the increasing inner part of us that is not moving, is untouched, in relation to outer activities, and eventually in relation to all of our thoughts and feelings too. It is our own consciousness, cultivated to a greater presence, and it gradually becomes the center of our self-awareness instead of all the stuff that is happening around us and inside us. This centeredness, and natural access to our native creativity, energy, compassion and other divine qualities, provides a great advantage in many things, of course.
The interesting thing, and this is where samyama comes in, is that inner stillness "moves" outward into our daily life over time, eventually permeating every aspect of our thinking, feeling and doing. That is the "outflow" I mention pretty often. Samyama cultivates this, as does being active in the world in-between our practice sessions.
So, yes, first we notice a contrast between activity and witness. Sometime after, we come to see that we are primarily the witness itself -- the only thing in our life that is constant, unchanging, the essence of our being. Then, as this quality flows out, we come to know that everything is That.
That's where the Vedic proclamation comes from:
"I am That,
You are That,
All this is That."
It is also where the Biblical phrase comes from:
"Do unto others have you would have them do unto you."
We and they are woven of the same cloth -- brothers and sisters in oneness all.
And another way of saying it:
The One is the many,
And the many are the One.
It looks great philosophically, but it is far more that that. It becomes known by direct perception on the path of yoga. Anyone who is engaged in effective sitting practices finds out for themselves.
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 11:31:17 AM
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| Yogani, Is it something like being in the middle of a conversation and suddenly feeling like you are outside watching? Is that what you mean by the witness? |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 11:56:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Is it something like being in the middle of a conversation and suddenly feeling like you are outside watching? Is that what you mean by the witness?
Hi Shanti:
Yes, or inside watching. Everywhere watching.
There is nothing we have to do with this when it happens. We'll just notice from time to time. It is an experience that comes to us gradually from our practices. So the best way to cultivate it is to continue with our normal practice routine. Gradually and automatically, the habits we develop in practices become part of daily life. Stillness, love, joy, energy and much more natural purity and effectiveness of our intentions (samyama).
The guru is in you.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 1:08:31 PM
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Although I have never done Samyama (and since I recently had an inner "sunburn" I don't dare to add it to my practise yet) I have certainly experienced the witness. It is the unmoved calmness I speak about in my posts.It is with me always.
A couple of years ago I would start having weird feelings of reckognizing myself in a flower I looked at; in a glass of water; in the sky surrounding a tree etc. I had no idea why I felt that it was something there of my essence in what I looked at (in the beginning it was always associated with the color blue or blue/violet - i.e. a blue flower, a blue glass etc) - and I didn't understand or feel what exactly I was reckognizing....just that it was me. The objects would also have a "shine" to them when this happened to me.
Later on came the much stronger shine associated with the lovefeeling in my chest. I also had an experience of 7 days in August 2004 where the love was everywhere I looked (including inside my chest) Then, however, I didn't reckognize it as myself.I thought something fantastic had "descended on me". 
A few months back I started feeling that "space" could be looked at. I could slightly shift the focus of my vision from the objects to the space that sourrounded them. This space had no quality - but it was a unified field. And it was "seething"....it was alive.
On the bus home from Sweeden (before writing the poem "Oneness")my perception shifted again. This time I became aware of clarity inside myself. The instant I became aware of it on the inside, the whole bus seethed with it. And not only the bus....everything I looked at had this clarity. The difference from all the previous occations (they have been numerous in the past year) was that this time; what I saw was a presence. For the first time I reckognized it as a unified field of presence. It wasn't that I HAD an experience; I WAS the experience. I was this boarderless presence. It was mindshattering.....it became very clear to me that what I have thought was me is way off truth. I am something completely different. Also - it became clear that space is not something "surrounding" objects. Space is it! It is permeating everything.
I am sorry....this has nothing do with Samyama.....but I thought I should tell anyway. This presence, the way I perceive it, is the witness. (Correct me if I am wrong).
May all your Nows be Here |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 05 2006 : 6:59:11 PM
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This sounds very wonderful Katrine, something to look forward to as the inner silence moves outward I guess.
"A couple of years ago I would start having weird feelings of reckognizing myself in a flower I looked at; in a glass of water; in the sky surrounding a tree etc."
This is so funny that you mention this as just recently I have been having this experience from time to time and you brought it to mind with your words. It started a while back in a dream where I remember looking at something (I don't remember what) and then I saw myself looking back at me, it was a very intense inner connection. Recently it's like you describe, every once in a while a fleeting recognition when looking at random things.
I agree with you presence/ witness are different words for one and the same thing for me.
Anthem
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2006 : 07:19:27 AM
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Hi Anthem
quote:
Recently it's like you describe, every once in a while a fleeting recognition when looking at random things.
Then I am glad I told you
I wrote the poem below three years ago. As you can see; changes DO eventually occur
An ordinary lens
On days when changes seem strangely remote,
when I look through the chip on my shoulder
I try to remember the poet who wrote
that beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Although I’ve been looking at life since birth
I had no idea life looked at me
That I could be a lens on the face of the earth
through which light could make you see
That cleaning this lens will make me transparent;
I then am a means, not a subject,
And that being a lens is profoundly different
from looking through this innocent object
Don’t worry Katrine, you’re blind as a bat
and the seers are rare and few
If you only could realize that what you are looking at
is somehow mysteriously you
Lifes many treasures aren’t always under ground,
hidden from sight – on the contrary:
The absolutely sublime can also be found
in the very absolutely ordinary
May all your Nows be Here |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2006 : 07:35:59 AM
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| That is beautiful. Thank you. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 01:29:33 AM
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My witness has always been pretty close to the surface (and AYP has helped immeasurably). But I recognize myself in nothing at all. In fact, except for children and old people, I feel a tremendous incongruousness with others (which I artfully disguise; I manage to come off quite sociable).
People under 12 and over 70, I relate to pretty closely (though I still don't see myself in them). At the ages in between, people seem like complete aliens to me.
More openings to enjoy... :) |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 07 2006 01:40:52 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 04:32:54 AM
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Hello Jim
You wrote:
quote:
My witness has always been pretty close to the surface (and AYP has helped immeasurably). But I recognize myself in nothing at all. In fact, except for children and old people, I feel a tremendous incongruousness with others (which I artfully disguise; I manage to come off quite sociable).
This I recognize. The incongruousness/alieness. It made me feel excruciatingly lonely for many years. At the same time it was this ...setting.....that helped me accept my aloneness. I simply had to turn inwards. There was nothing out there.
Most people do not mirror this aloneness (which is another way of naming the witness, the way I see it). Many people are not aware of their lonelyness. I used many "fillers" to avoid what is. It is so hard to accept that I am not! I still fill myself (now the fillers are all about spiritual processes) - but at least I immediately know it when I do it. I witness me fill myself. Then I can laugh at myself. And when the laugh comes, I relax. Then the need of the filler disappears.
Jim - you obviously recognize the witness in yourself. How would you describe it? (Can it be described?)
quote:
People under 12 and over 70, I relate to pretty closely (though I still don't see myself in them).
Are people that age less fake (or less threatening); is that why? (The child not yet molded into a full blown personality, and the old one sick and tired of the promises that never come true...hence dropping it a bit?)
May all your Nows be Here |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 09:46:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
People under 12 and over 70, I relate to pretty closely...
I have also many times found it more enjoyable to be with and communicate with kids than adults because they act much less and are more genuine. So, when they are happy I know that they really are happy, when they are sad they show it, and don't try to be in way that is most appropriate or polite in the situation. On the other hand, I think patterns of behavior have developed between adults to make interactions in society more frictionless and hopefully pleasant, to hide all the (unpleasant) differences between people. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 09:48:30 AM
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I agree with Jim. I don't see myself in anything either . Unlike Jim though, I don't want to be with kids or adults or older people. I have been tuning myself off these days, somehow lost in some other world, somehow distant. When I am with friends, I wish I was not there, I wish I was somewhere else all alone, or just with my kids. I like being alone, I don't like the mindless chatter, the unnecessary conversations and the act of being civil. I would rather be on my own, and off late I have found myself talking with friends physically, but actually watching the whole thing from the outside.. not being a part of it.. Does anybody else feel this way? |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 10:46:51 AM
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Hi Shanti
You wrote:
quote:
I like being alone, I don't like the mindless chatter, the unnecessary conversations and the act of being civil. I would rather be on my own, and off late I have found myself talking with friends physically, but actually watching the whole thing from the outside.. not being a part of it.. Does anybody else feel this way?
It used to be that way for me. The chatter bored me to death; the fakeness pained me. One day I seriously asked myself why. How come this is all I see? And why am I pained by it? (Believe me, it was not a feeling of compassion towards them.....on the contrary)
For me it was simply that my connection with my inner presence was fragile. Being with others "destroyed" the connection inwards. It turned out that other than missing the right mirroring (I mean, how can fakeness mirror truth?), it had nothing to do with them. What really pained me was MY fakeness; MY chatter. I was split between not wanting to listen to them and yet wanting something from them. I missed a connection that I seemed to think should be there. I wanted something I didn't have. I didn't own my own illusions. I rejected that part of myself.In rejecting my personality I immediately reject the real me. I forget that I am both heaven AND earth. Body AND soul.
When this is said, I think time to myself is a must. It is completely ok to want to be alone. I need it in my process. That is why I meditate. But I need to go out there and be too. Otherwise my being is conditioned - then I am not free. And if I am not free I cannot flower. It is everybody's loss.
Maybe what you are experiencing, Shanti, is the ability to in fact be alone and still be with another. You are witnessing and at the same time engaging. I too used to feel it as being "outside" watching. But this has changed. I am neither inside nor outside when I watch now - I am just there. I have also noticed that when I am there witnessing, sometimes something happens to the other too. They become visible in another way. I can sense that we connect on a different level. They sense it too - because they relax. And the instant relaxation is there, the wall of the personality cracks - sometimes even to the point of letting light shine through. When this happens I love. Not them, not me.....I simply love. It is great!
So now I don't engage in the chatter. I instead engage in whatever is there of presence. If the wall is hard and dense, I engage in my own presence while I have 5% ear on the chatter. (I mean, sometimes I do have to behave in a civil way[;)
May all your Nows be Here |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 11:20:11 AM
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| Thanks Katine. Its good to know I am not loosing my mind.. or am I? |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2006 : 11:39:08 AM
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shanti wrote:
quote:
Its good to know I am not loosing my mind.. or am I?
The IDEA of your mind is worth loosing 
May all your Nows be Here |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 12:05:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hello Jim
You wrote:
quote:
My witness has always been pretty close to the surface (and AYP has helped immeasurably). But I recognize myself in nothing at all. In fact, except for children and old people, I feel a tremendous incongruousness with others (which I artfully disguise; I manage to come off quite sociable).
This I recognize. The incongruousness/alieness. It made me feel excruciatingly lonely for many years.
Yes, for me as well. But AYP has fixed it. Thanks to my practice I very rarely feel lonely, because my heart's open and I'm aware of moving through a sea of love (and I'm not a very warm/fuzzy guy, and I've not gone on some wild bhakti tangent). I'm rarely bored or lonely, because each moment feels permeated with the most exquisite intimacy. Well, maybe not EACH moment...I still revert to my more conditioned patterns fairly often, but never for long and never real "stuck".
quote:
At the same time it was this ...setting.....that helped me accept my aloneness. I simply had to turn inwards. There was nothing out there.
Yes. That for me, too. And it was fortuitously accompanied by my getting pretty sick of my mind, which I was starting to see contained none of the answers I was looking for. When you realize that there's lots of interesting variety in the world and in your existance, but that the endless variety in and of itself is mostly hollow entertainment, like a satellite tv set-up with 500 channels, and when you realize that no matter how much data you feed your brain and no matter how hard it works, it's never going to spit out what you deeply feel yourself to be seeking, that's a very very good point to be at.
quote:
Most people do not mirror this aloneness (which is another way of naming the witness, the way I see it). Many people are not aware of their lonelyness. I used many "fillers" to avoid what is. It is so hard to accept that I am not! I still fill myself (now the fillers are all about spiritual processes) - but at least I immediately know it when I do it. I witness me fill myself. Then I can laugh at myself. And when the laugh comes, I relax. Then the need of the filler disappears.
Yes, there is a very uncomfortable middle ground between the unselfconscious numb tedium and suffering of everyday existence (where most people exist) and the bliss and peace of prolonged spiritual practice (not enlightenment, just plenty of meditation done the right way). There are times when you wish you could have LESS self-awareness. AYP is great because it takes you through that uncomfortable period quite quickly and efficaciously.
quote:
Jim - you obviously recognize the witness in yourself. How would you describe it? (Can it be described?)
Yeah, I have no problem explaining it at all. My problem is constraining myself to a terse description. Here are some attempts:
the place in me that never changes the least bit
The dry spot...the place that doesn't erode in the weather of existence
the place that first receives the sense impressions (scientists know that you jump away from fire or a snake or other danger before your visual cortex analyzes the image and determines what you're actually looking at...and that's a mystery to them. It's because your central awareness gets the signal before the cortex). Little hint: try looking through your eyes and realizing that you are serving as the eyes of God...then same for other senses. Interesting result!
The part of me that warms me when I bask ("me" and "I" meaning, as always, alas, my mind)
I could go on....
quote:
"People under 12 and over 70, I relate to pretty closely (though I still don't see myself in them)."
quote:
Are people that age less fake (or less threatening); is that why? (The child not yet molded into a full blown personality, and the old one sick and tired of the promises that never come true...hence dropping it a bit?)
They're less crystallized. They have less "at stake" (and as DAvid noted a few months ago, "at stake" is one way of viewing the notion of attachment). Less fully formed (one developing, the other disintegrating), they're in a slightly more open and spontaneous phase of life and so they're slightly less locked into static self-image. I've never locked into self image, and I've had relatively low stakes (a lot less now, after practices). So when I'm with adults, I feel the way kids do (generally unable to relate, plus the feeling that I'm among dull, overly serious inflexible and half-asleep chess pieces) and the way old people do (bemused observation of how rat racy everyone seems, chasing after this and that impermanent thing as if in a dream).
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 09 2006 12:49:31 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 3:01:49 PM
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Melissa, can you drop the feeling/thought completely and go into silence, and then pick it up again? If yes , I think you are doing fine. From what I have understood from the lessons and posts, is that samyama is like shocking the mind, a thought, a feeling, then nothing.. it is like training the mind to go back to silence no matter what feelings it encounters... in that case, if your feelings are extreme and yet you can drop it for silence.. you are fine. Of course there will be better advice from people who have been doing it for long.. I am just starting with samyama, I still don't understand how to pick a feeling up faintly.. I can pick a thought and I have no trouble dropping it and going into silence.. Actually, I find it easier to keep my mind blank, than on the mantra sometimes, but that is another story....
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Edited by - Shanti on Mar 09 2006 3:12:10 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2006 : 4:08:59 PM
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Shanti wrote:
"Actually, I find it easier to keep my mind blank, than on the mantra sometimes, but that is another story...."
Yeah me too. and with samyama it's easy for me to remember the sequence of words, which seems logical to me, but harder for me to remember that there is a "next word". I just tend to
go to silence and stay there.
When socializing, I'm really not interested in the chatter either, but i'm interested in people "opening up." I ask them about stuff they are into even though I couldn't care less.
But when it makes them smile and begin to enjoy expressing themselves, I like it.
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Samyama, picking up word or not?
