|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 09:19:36 AM
|
I wanted to ask this question from a very long time but always forgot.
Is there anyone on the forum who sleeps consciously? Always!
I assume that an Enlightened person always watches its body taking a nap and then waking.
Just like the recent lesson http://www.aypsite.org/423.html where the person has mentioned being aware all the time. Does he/she remain aware while asleep as well?
I could not miss to ask this as I just read these lines from the book 'I Am That':
Q: Why then live at all? Why all this unnecessary coming and going, waking and sleeping, eating and digesting?
M: Nothing is done by me, everything just happens I do not expect, I do not plan, I just watch events happening, knowing them to be unreal.
Q: Were you always like this from the first moment of enlightenment?
M: The three states rotate as usual -- there is waking and sleeping and waking again, but they do not happen to me. They just happen. To me nothing ever happens. There is something changeless, motionless, immovable, rocklike, unassailable; a solid mass of pure being-consciousness-bliss. I am
never out of it. Nothing can take me out of it, no torture, no calamity.
Q: Yet, you are conscious!
M: Yes and no. There is peace -- deep, immense, unshakeable. Events are registered in memory, but are of no importance. I am hardly aware of them.
http://www.fixdisease.com/i_am_that.pdf |
|
|
ik-jivan
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 12:48:35 PM
|
Manigma,
I call that kind of conscious sleeping, ‘hovering’. Your senses perceive the changes in your environment and your consciousness constantly checks in and out. It floats and bobs on the surface of the water, but never goes deep. If I am exhausted, I’m down for the count, so to speak. Yet if I have caffeine too late in the day, or am napping during the day, I hover, rather than sleep. If I try to get more than 5 hours of sleep, I hover for the remainder.
I have been aware for a long time that my subconscious is actively pursuing spiritual progress and study during sleep. At the threshold of consciousness – not dreaming in REM – but just a second or two when it’s time to turn over, I rise starkly from unconsciousness to semi-consciousness, to perceive fragments of speech. On one occasion, I heard the perfect recital of the Mool Mantar, which I only started learning and wasn’t yet consciously able to recite from memory. That’s when I knew this conscious ego-mind is subordinate to the agency that resides and presides from the deep. When you finally realize that you’re not calling the shots, you don’t have to concern yourself with planning and strategizing. You can watch that Inner Guru with amusement, wonder, awe and just immerse yourself in the experiences of His lessons.
I am there, where this person in the recent lesson is: http://www.aypsite.org/423.html . And I wonder too, ‘What’s the big deal. Just be. Let life take you where it will.’ And also like the interviewee, I see how others are positively effected/affected without having to do anything but be present. Even when you get agitated, others don’t feel threatened. They will even giggle at your lapses – much like they would if you involuntarily passed gas – knowing that it’s just animal nature and not really you at all. What’s more is that this phenomenon happens immediately even with total strangers. You just become an intimately familiar person – like close family – to everyone.
And from you, another shiny, smooth stone: http://www.fixdisease.com/i_am_that.pdf . Somehow, all this truth arises from within. I have no need to say it . . . but reading it, I nod my head in understanding and am grateful that it was written for all to know. . .‘The clearer you understand on the level of mind you can be described in negative terms only, the quicker will you come to the end of your search and realise that you are the limitless being.’ . . . we are Homo Sapiens, the ‘thinking man’. It’s what we are designed to do. Think. But do not think that you are your thoughts, nor your emotions, nor your animal body. You are the observer and the experiencer. . . as Meister Ekhart wrote, ‘The eye with which I see God is the eye with which God sees me.’ In fact, it’s the eye, nose, ears, tongue and hand with which God experiences everything He created.
But Manigma . . . you know all this too. 
0
_/\_
|
 |
|
|
Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2010 : 2:10:15 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
I assume that an Enlightened person always watches its body taking a nap and then waking.
Not really. Its not the "person" watching, just a trace of the person. Just like sleeping its not conscious seeing. Its a change in reference frame.
Its good to read the view point of enlightened people, its a form of "neti" reinforcement. However, as it says in the Bhagavad-Gita, those who know should not speak of certain things since it can confuse people, I paraphrase here. Thus, when you read Nisargadatta, his use of the "I" is the Absolute I, not a an awakened or transformed I. Of course, it is the person Sri Nisargadatta speaking, thats why its complex topic. Can't really use evidence from temporary Awakenings or even old writings to make sense of it, one has to just awake.
"I Am That" is great!
--
jo-self.
|
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 07:49:47 AM
|
Dear ik-jivan
By 'sleep' I meant both the 'semi-sleep with dreams' and the 'unconscious deep sleep without dreams'. Do you remain aware in both these?
I think the 'hovering' you mention is being aware in the kind of 'semi-sleep with dreams' state. Similar to being lucid.
quote:
Originally posted by ik-jivan
If I try to get more than 5 hours of sleep, I hover for the remainder.
Do you mean that you are unconscious for those 5 hours of 'deep sleep' and conscious for the remainder 'semi-sleep'? |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 08:44:29 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jo-self
quote:
Originally posted by manigma
I assume that an Enlightened person always watches its body taking a nap and then waking.
Not really. Its not the "person" watching, just a trace of the person. Just like sleeping its not conscious seeing. Its a change in reference frame.
Well ofcourse you are correct, the Absolute I envelopes within the trace of the so called "person" as well.  |
|
|
|
ik-jivan
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 11:28:35 AM
|
Found an early lesson relating to sleep:http://www.aypsite.org/17.html
‘People who have been meditating for years may have less need for sleep due to the accumulated purity in their nervous systems. It is not that meditation replaces sleep. It is that the body and mind gradually have become purified over time and the body needs less purification during its daily sleep cycle. It is the purity resulting from long-term meditation and other advanced yoga practices that generally reduces the need for sleep. In time, consciousness remains present twenty-four hours a day. Then, daily activities, dreaming, and deep sleep are all playing like a movie on the screen of our silent, blissful awareness. In this state we are never asleep anymore. This is the kind of freedom and happiness we all are capable of achieving naturally – our inalienable birthright. ‘
Manigma,
No, I’m not aware in 'unconscious deep sleep without dreams'. It’s not lucid dreaming either. . .
. . .It’s not typical dreaming . . . the ‘world’ I am in is grey, as though there is a mist everywhere, if there are people speaking, it is as though there is a gauze veil between me and those on the other side. I hear them, but I can only see shadows of them. I don’t ‘physically’ interact with them. But I might think questions in relation to what they say.
In the past, I would hear the discourse as I rose from deep sleep, but couldn’t actually remain in this grey world. I was either in deep sleep, dreaming or awake. . . just passing through like we all do. I think that if I didn’t hear talking, I wouldn’t have noticed this ‘in between state’.
About a year or so ago, I was determined to learn how to meditate. Within a couple months, I found myself in this misty, grey world. It was silent, but I could still hear everything happening around me in the physical environment. Since I know that in deep sleep our bodies go into paralysis, I judged that I was not in deep sleep, because I was upright in half-lotus. Since I was not having dreams, I knew that I was not in REM sleep state. Clearly, I wasn’t awake either.
While I am in this grey world, my ears also hear and my mind also registers the sounds around me in my physical environment. If the cats are playing around and make a sudden noise, my attention is drawn to it, but I don’t wake up. I feel the louder ones on my eardrums, play back the sequence of sounds, determine if there is concern and if not, return to the grey world. You know we can ‘rewind’ and ‘play back’ recorded memory of sounds, right?
If I am in need of sleep, I will be in deep sleep, then I am aware of my grey world ‘conversations’ for just a second, then I am deep in sleep, without passing through dream-state. I think we all must do this when we turn over and reposition. We can’t move in deep sleep, due to sleep paralysis.
If I am not in need of sleep, and am ‘hovering’ in this mostly silent grey world, that may or may not have the occasional visitor. While there, I hear the sounds in my environment as described.
So, ‘hovering’ in this grey world is somewhere between deep sleep and wakefulness, but it’s not typical dream stage sleep. Maybe I’m just having really boring dreams!
<quote>Do you mean that you are unconscious for those 5 hours of 'deep sleep' and conscious for the remainder 'semi-sleep'? </quote>
If I try to go to sleep early, I hover and dream until it is my time to go to sleep and then I sleep deeply for 5 hours. If I try to sleep in in the morning and go beyond the 5 hours, in the extra time I hover and dream until I wake up (with a headache).
|
|
|
|
ik-jivan
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 11:33:17 AM
|
| Speaking of 'watching your body', has anyone acknowledge third-person autobiographical memory . . . you see your body in memories from somewhere else? I have some very odd memories of self from impossible perspectives. . . |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2010 : 1:17:30 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ik-jivan
Found an early lesson relating to sleep:http://www.aypsite.org/17.html
‘In time, consciousness remains present twenty-four hours a day. Then, daily activities, dreaming, and deep sleep are all playing like a movie on the screen of our silent, blissful awareness. In this state we are never asleep anymore. This is the kind of freedom and happiness we all are capable of achieving naturally – our inalienable birthright.'
Yes, this is what I was asking. Is there anyone in the forum who has achieved this?
quote:
If I try to sleep in the morning and go beyond the 5 hours, in the extra time I hover and dream until I wake up (with a headache).
Yes, this will give headache |
|
|
|
KriyabanSeeking
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 12:07:05 PM
|
I have, on rare occasions, been conscious for a short time after 'falling asleep'. The experience brings Joy to every cell of my being. I usually leave the body and can see my body 'as if dead' laying on the bed while I 'float' around for sometime. The experience is also accompanied by a beautiful and all-engrossing roar (OM). I try to recreate this experience from time to time, usually unsuccessfully.
Also, it is interesting to note that I usually sleep about 5-6 hours a night and almost always awake naturally at dawn. However, if I try to sleep a bit more, I also wake up 'heavy' and headachy.
Blessings! |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 2:10:43 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by KriyabanSeeking
The experience is also accompanied by a beautiful and all-engrossing roar (OM).
Wow, beautiful. Thanks for sharing!
You are the first person to confirm the validity of my experience.
I have experienced this roaring OM as well... but while returning back inside the body 
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=7919
Do you also see / visualize something when this happens? Like an inner route/passage/tunnel?
You are definitely blessed and being watched by the angels.
Welcome to AYP! |
|
|
|
tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 4:30:33 PM
|
Hi, nice topic :)
my experience is that just as life during waking gradually becomes transparent, deep sleep also is becoming transparent. It's nowhere near "stable" over here, but sometimes during no-dreams deep sleep phase, there comes a "shine", just unending peace, or whatever :) it's very simple, really, just seeing through another state of consciousness, dissolved in what I AM :)
P.S. a topic where I mentioned this shine while (deep)sleeping: http://aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5471 |
Edited by - tadeas on Jul 26 2010 4:33:28 PM |
|
|
|
KriyabanSeeking
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2010 : 7:18:27 PM
|
Manigma,
Thank you for your warm welcome. Yes, as I leave and return to/from the body I see the tunnel. It is rotating; and in fact, it rotates in phase with the OM sound. In other words, the roar of OM is synonymous with the rotating tunnel, as if the roar was caused by the astral friction of the rotating tunnel. Its impossible to put the astral Light and Sound into physical words, but it is a truly enrapturing Joy!
Blessings! |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 01:21:53 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by tadeas
my experience is that just as life during waking gradually becomes transparent, deep sleep also is becoming transparent. It's nowhere near "stable" over here, but sometimes during no-dreams deep sleep phase, there comes a "shine", just unending peace, or whatever :) it's very simple, really, just seeing through another state of consciousness, dissolved in what I AM :)
P.S. a topic where I mentioned this shine while (deep)sleeping: http://aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5471
Thanks for sharing tadeas, beautiful! |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 01:42:56 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by KriyabanSeeking
Yes, as I leave and return to/from the body I see the tunnel. It is rotating; and in fact, it rotates in phase with the OM sound. In other words, the roar of OM is synonymous with the rotating tunnel, as if the roar was caused by the astral friction of the rotating tunnel. Its impossible to put the astral Light and Sound into physical words, but it is a truly enrapturing Joy!
Great! Wonderful!
From the last 3 days I am aware all the time. At night when I go to bed, instead of falling asleep unconsciously, I meditate while lying for about 30 mins. This generates a great energy in all the chakras and especially the third eye.
Then I remain aware the whole night. My body does all that it did before (turning, snatching blanket from my wife, removing feet of my son from my face). All this while I am aware the whole night.
Earlier I used to get headaches if I forced to remain aware at night. But now its become natural and blissful.
Even after remaining aware for the whole night, it feels like I just lied down and got up again.
I have no headaches and it feels like the body is flowing / being held by my astral body/energy all the time.
And this is certainly not a stage of final Enlightenment as I assumed earlier. My body meditates twice a day to keep its battery charged. |
|
|
|
KriyabanSeeking
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2010 : 10:13:50 AM
|
Manigma,
Thank you for sharing! I have not passed an entire night consciously. It usually only lasts a while, then I return to the body, then I sleep normally.
Blessings! |
|
|
|
ik-jivan
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 8:15:48 PM
|
| I just noticed this morning that this constant awareness state is written of in the Sukhmani Sahib (Sikh Gurbani). |
|
|
|
ik-jivan
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2010 : 8:22:28 PM
|
| I should also mention that many many years ago I was meditating and then my vision was suddenly zipping along a multi-coloured tunnel that was like a 'worm hole' . . . many dips and dives and turns to it. I was the light that lit the tunnel, while ahead of me it was pitch black. I got to a point . . . not more than 10 seconds in, when I noticed that I was super-accelerating. Then I was gripped with fear. Instantly, I stopped moving forward and moved backward, following the exact contour in reverse. This 'journey' was accompanied by a roar, the pitch increasing with the speed at which I travelled. Never had anything like that happen to me again, but I think I would not be so unnerved if it did happen again. |
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Aug 05 2010 : 02:55:23 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ik-jivan
..zipping along a multi-coloured tunnel that was like a 'worm hole' . . . many dips and dives and turns to it. I was the light that lit the tunnel..
Welcome to planet Earth!
You are inside the body of a Human being. A being that is considered to possess most developed and intelligent mind.
Here is your chance to learn the greatest knowledge - The knowledge of Self.
We wish you a pleasant stay.
hehe...
Ik-kivan, what you experienced was the subtle process of being born and dying. This is how consciousness leaves and enters the body. We do it every night when we sleep.
See this great link:
http://www.swamij.com/om.htm#aladani
One may sometimes consciously experience the transition between Dreaming (U of OM Mantra) and Waking (A of OM Mantra), either while in bed at sleeping time or at Meditation time. This might be experienced as very beautiful or very horrifying, depending on the nature of the thought patterns. However, the transition at Aladani is very different from the Waking (A of OM Mantra) to Dreaming (U of OM Mantra) transition. |
|
|
|
ik-jivan
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2010 : 10:42:08 AM
|
Hey Manigma,
Hahaha! I’m just passing through on a sight-seeing trip around the world and plan to be back home, where I started in a few years.
Well, if that was the ‘birth canal’ that I was zipping down, I never exited the other side, so perhaps I am still the unborn.
Aladani, does seem to explain the ‘grey world’ I pass through on my way into and out of unconscousness . . . not dreaming, very ghostly with shadow form only, not present as a person, but simply as an observing presence.
Thanks for the link. I’ve passed it along to a friend who seems to be experiencing a similar state of consciousness.
|
|
|
|
manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2010 : 03:16:11 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ik-jivan
Aladani, does seem to explain the ‘grey world’ I pass through on my way into and out of unconscousness . . . not dreaming, very ghostly with shadow form only, not present as a person, but simply as an observing presence.
You might have some unfinished work there.
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/lig...w1.html#grey
WHERE IS THAT DOOR? WHAT MANSION IS IT WHERE YOU SIT AND OVERLOOK YOUR CREATION?
INFINITE SOUNDS ARE RINGING, AND INFINITE ARE THE PLAYERS; INFINITE THE SINGERS, AND INFINITE THE MELODIES THEY SING.
THERE LIVE MANY DEVOTEES OF MANY DIFFERENT WORLDS; KEEPING THE TRUE NAME IN THEIR HEARTS THEY ENJOY BLISS. IN THE REALM OF TRUTH THE FORMLESS ABIDES. HE CREATES THE WORLD AND EXULTS IN IT WITH HIS VISION.
WITH HIM ARE THE CONTINENTS, THE SUNS, THE UNIVERSES; AND THEY ALL DEFY DESCRIPTION. THERE ARE WORLDS UPON WORLDS, AND CREATIONS UPON CREATIONS. ALL WORKS ACCORDING TO HIS ORDER. SEEING ALL THIS AND THINKING OF IT, HE FLOWERS IN HAPPINESS, NANAK SAYS, TO DESCRIBE HIM IS LIKE CHEWING ON IRON.
- The True Name (Vol.1) |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Sleeping with awareness (Conscious sleeping)
