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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 09:01:23 AM
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Hi all,
I'm still struggling with the tantric practice. For me, the chance of successfully doing it is very low, thus I end up ejaculating much more often than I would wish. I can stop the strokes whenever I decide to. But sometimes I go too close and it's too late to stop then. On the other hand, I am very much concerned about the possible side-effects of blocking. It sounds terrible for me. Is there other techniques (preferably less violent ones) which I can use to replace blocking? (without having to practice for many years....)
Alvin |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 09:57:46 AM
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There is. This one was put forward years ago by Masters and Johnson, (I don't know if they originated it -- I think not).
I'm not 100% sure of the details, but I know the basics. You give the lingam a good quick squeezing, I think about half way up. It's that simple. (The squeezing should press on the front and back I think. You can use your thumb on the back/top and your fingers on the front.). As with the other technique, don't do it too late.
It's not known why it works, but it does.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Mar 10 2006 : 11:10:15 AM
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Alvin,
Yes there are ways to attain Male Multiple Orgasm without any last-moment holding back. I experienced it spontaneously. A fellow named "Jack" Johnston specializes in teaching an intentional method. His method helped me understand and intentionally trigger such energy orgasms. It has also helped people in your situation.
Bewell
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Lavazza
69 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2006 : 6:28:50 PM
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| Thanks. I checked out the MMO site. Fascinating stuff. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2006 : 01:12:49 AM
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| where is it? |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2006 : 01:25:50 AM
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| I've googled some results out but it seems that you've to paid in order to know the exact techniques. And I don't think it's wise to pay before you know what you're paying for! You can it also in the AYP links, where Yogani said it's "mildly degenerative". |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2006 : 08:51:27 AM
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Hi Alvin:
On paying in advance, I was suspicious too. But there is a money back guarantee if, for whatever reason, you want your money back. And, let me tell you, I don't want my money back. The $30 was well worth it for the CD demonstration of how to articulate the key sound along with the privilage of participating in live chats with Johnston. You really have to hear the key sound, and understand it in context of his potocol to do it. And Alvin, it really is what you asked for: a way of separating orgasm from ejaculation without blocking.
I’m reading the e-book, Secrets of Wilder and thoroughly enjoying it. It was paid for in advance, of course. That sort of yoga romance strikes me as a whole new genre. Fine work. I just finished the chapter where Wilder has a rash and swelling, having overdone the inner energy stimulation.
Thanks,
Bewell |
Edited by - bewell on Mar 16 2006 3:25:56 PM |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2006 : 09:26:02 AM
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Thanks very much Bewell. I will look close into it. I know there's money back guarantee, but there are much complications since I'm in Hong Kong. My efforts on figuring all these out will exceed the value of money back already!
In it works really perfectly in every aspect, one day it will come to the public--- this is for sure. You know, orgasm is something EVERYONE are going for. Who don't want one after one orgasm with no side effects? So unlike the more traditional spiritual practices, it will automatically catch people's attention.
So, although I would like to hear different people's experience on this, I don't see the need to listen to Johnston or Yogani on this particular orgasm stuff. (especially if, unlike yoga practices, one can "experienced it spontaneously"). Unlike those esoteric yoga practices, the answer will come up very soon (if Johnston's things really work perfectly) as long as people are still looking for orgasm.(which will be so forever for any animals) And it will then be much better--- we will be listening to thausands of people's experience then, not just Johnston or Yogani or you or me.
Thanks again, anyway. I may recommend my friends to try this out first if they wish to
Alvin |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Mar 12 2006 10:07:57 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2006 : 12:55:14 AM
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Hi Alvin/ Bewell,
Bewell's posts regarding Jack Johnston got me curious, so I ordered the CD and have been experimenting with it over the last couple of months. I believe that with practice, it can become an excellent alternative to blocking for us fellows as it brings the energy upwards instead of down and out.
I found that the system is incredibly simple and very effective. More importantly to me than delivering multiple orgasms (which it does), it has increased the expansion of ecstatic conductivity for me, it has also made it much easier to cultivate the tantric energies in general.
I think overall it is a really nice addition to the AYP tantric practices and I recommend it highly.
Thank you Bewell for bringing this to our attention.
Anthem
ps- a word of warning, it is easy to over do things when practicing JJ's system in addition to AYP on the inner-energy end of things. In my case, some extra diligence in self-pacing was in order to keep things in balance.
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Edited by - Anthem on May 09 2006 01:02:15 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2006 : 09:56:20 AM
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Hi Anthem,
I'm very glad you found key sound useful.
Once "the door is opened" as they say, the adventure can take a variety of directions. Lately, I'm noticing the similarity of "spinal breathing" and "key sound" -- both involve an intentional out breath with attention to the root area. And when I do my spinal breathing, I often get orgasmic contractions on the out breath. Then, on the in breath, I mentally follow the energy up to my eyebrow center. |
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vishnu
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2006 : 2:25:50 PM
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Dear friends, Could anyone let me know how to get hold of
Jack Johnston's C.D, and also what is MMO site which Lavazza mentioned
Thanks very much. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
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vishnu
United Kingdom
14 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 04:19:10 AM
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Dear all, asking for your help, can anyone tell me what is MMO site is mentioned by Lavazza on the forum of 11th of March.
Also Anthem 11 you bought the CD of Jack Johnston, could you let me have the address where you bought it please.
I am new on this forum, and I am enjoying it very much,the best I have come across.
Thank you all.
The Guru is in you. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 21 2006 : 9:17:41 PM
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Hi Vishnu,
It can be found at the link Bewell supplied above or more directly here:
https://multiples.com/2click/index.html
Once you buy the CD, it will be sent to you and you will also be given access to download it immediately which I found helpful.
all the best,
A
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 03:45:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
In my case, some extra diligence in self-pacing was in order to keep things in balance.
Hello Anthem,
I just listened to JJ's CD, but have yet to practice it (but will soon). Do you have any tips on self-pacing, using this system in conjuction with AYP? For example, would you consider this as adding a new practice (making sure you are stable in your current practice first)? I look forward to trying this system... thanks everyone for bringing it into the light of discussion :)
peace |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 28 2006 : 5:45:32 PM
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Hi CT,
It definitely is an additive practice, so self-pacing is required (for me at least) and so is having stability in your existing practices. I see it as turbo-charged energy being directed up the sushumna, so there will be purifying effects even if it is not apparent at first.
Personally, I keep a close eye out for "over-doing" symptoms (excessive release, prana-burn, emotional upheaval etc.) and if I encounter any I self-pace accordingly.
Hope this helps,
A
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2006 : 03:31:45 AM
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| Thanks, Anthem. I'll keep your advice in mind as I add the practice. |
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ycloutier2000
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 7:00:34 PM
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From the Papridika:
ch. 3 v. 42: “When the upper cavity of the palate is sealed by khechari mudra, the bindu or semen cannot be lost even if one embraces a beautiful woman.”
ch. 3 v. 43: “Even when there is a movement of the bindu and it enters the genitals. It is seized by closing the perineum and is taken upward.”
It works very well... |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 7:31:13 PM
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Is that so? I haven't had sex for a year and a half. That's about as long as I've been performing kechari. I'll have to try that out someday.
Sitting here, looking around in the University library really makes one think.... |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2006 : 03:18:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Balance
Is that so? I haven't had sex for a year and a half. That's about as long as I've been performing kechari. I'll have to try that out someday.
Sitting here, looking around in the University library really makes one think....
Wow ... if all we males could just remember what you so clearly elucidate in this message ......
(sigh)
.... our Yogic energy and purification could be enhanced many-fold by this simple awareness, alone ....
... namely, of course, that .....
.... thinking is devilish!
On the other hand, though, introducing willing and joyfully sexual college women to the truly beautiful world of Tantric / Yogic energy and attendant intimate connection, on the other hand -- well, that's downright sacred.
No kidding.
That's yer basic win-win situation, right there!
(HINT: You know how much you value genuine, high-quality erotic intimacy with a caring partner? Any woman I've ever known well enough to share the topic with, either actually or conversationally -- has felt the same way.
The two primary genders we humans have, are a lot *less* different than daytime television would lead us to believe -- and a lot *more* resonate with many of the same things than usually believed -- including the inclination for authentic, caring and/or simply enthusiastic sexual connection.)
Peace, Namaste & Good .... Connecting!
Kirtanman
PS - And as applicable as it may be to any resulting dialog, I might suggest, "You won't *believe* what I can do with my tongue!" as an opening line to be used with great discretion ......
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2006 : 03:42:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
Hi all,
I'm still struggling with the tantric practice. For me, the chance of successfully doing it is very low, thus I end up ejaculating much more often than I would wish. I can stop the strokes whenever I decide to. But sometimes I go too close and it's too late to stop then. On the other hand, I am very much concerned about the possible side-effects of blocking. It sounds terrible for me. Is there other techniques (preferably less violent ones) which I can use to replace blocking? (without having to practice for many years....)
Alvin
Hello Alvin and All,
I mentioned doing a Tantric post in another section recently .... and, well, this isn't it.
Too late / early.
A couple of hopefully helpful comments, though:
I got to my current "mega-orgasmic independent of ejaculation" stage through a variety of practices -- and I personally think I used blocking once.
Didn't much care for it.
Basically, my approach (which took at least several weeks to really hit "cruising altitude" with) was to roll the intensity of my Tantric solo sexual practices (aka .... nahh .... you all know what it's "aka" already ..... ) WAYYYYY back.
Meaning: my goal wasn't to get as physically excited as possible, and then orgasm and ejaculate.
My goal was to experience enjoyable movement of Shakti energy, and physical pleasure, while engaging in exploratory / fun / interesting sexual fantasies (aka "A fun way to spend a Saturday morning". ).
The "main enjoyability" became feeling really good, while having enjoyable fantasies, while _also_ (VERY important) -- learning _exactly_ what my body responds to ---- what exact kind of touching, how much, for how long, and so on.
Early on, I still felt a compulsion to ejaculate -- and did -- then, I was inspired by the AYP Tantra lessons to at least try not to -- so rolled the intensity back, even more.
I would then literally make myself stop, before I got so close to ejaculation that I couldn't stop.
Then --- I would "tip-toe" closer, until I was *right* on the brink, and fling my hands out to my sides, breathe very deeply and slowly (known Tantric technique for delaying ejaculation) AND drawing my attention up my spine, and to my Ajna chakra.
Directing all this energy _away_ from the physical site of ejaculation almost always worked (probably 19 times out of 20), so that I didn't ejaculate.
The "down" side at the time was: I didn't orgasm, either.
Then, as reported elsewhere, I started experiencing ecstatic bliss in my head area, more and more -- and so was even more motivated to draw near-orgasmic energy up into my head -- because it made the ecstasy even better (so there was clearly a channel being opened).
THEN -- I got to the point where I was SO close to orgasm / ejaculation, that I *thought* I was ejaculating! I felt those same exact muscle spasms ... and expected to have a puddle on my belly (remember: my hands were flung out at my sides, per my goal to avoid ejaculation by continued stroking).
Once or twice, I had a drop of semen -- but then, no fluid at all (though sometimes if I "milk" my lingam when using the bathroom, some semen comes out).
For the most part, though -- I never see it, and it is presumably re-absorbed.
NOW - here's the climax ....
(Pun ultra-intended) ..... I have lately hit the territory of full-blown, TRUE, ACTUAL orgasms with NO ejaculation, and once, without touching myself!!
(Wanted to see if a man could do this. A man can do this. )
So, summary steps:
*Back away from the orgasm ....
*Back WAY away from the orgasm ....
*Develop some good fantasies -- you may be at this for a while .... I had sessions that would go 2-3 hours (in the name of yogic experimentation, and for the good of all, of course ...... ), and dedicated Saturday and Sunday mornings to this, for several weeks straight ("Who cares if it's sunny out ....?!" )
*Be "sneaky like fox", approaching the orgasm ....
*Be willing to abandon ship .... hands away, breath away, thoughts away, energy and attention pulled to other end of body (point between eyebrows) ..... to stop orgasm at brink of ejaculation.
*Be very faithful in all other energetic practices, especially those that draw energy to the head and brow center (spinal breathing, meditation, kechari, sambhavi, etc.) --- in my experience, it is stirring up the energetic concentrations at both ends of the body -- and then re-training the body that the energy should go up and stay in, rather than go down and squirt out.
Hope that helps!
Peace, Namaste & Good ....... Practicing!
Kirtanman
PS --- I think this *was* my Tantra post. I tend to do that ...
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2006 : 5:55:41 PM
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Hi Kirtanman,
What a fantastic post! Love it.
I developed the ability to orgasm without ejaculation when I was about 19 (before I started any yoga practices). I never mentioned it to anyone as I thought noone would believe it.
quote:
Kirtanman wrote:
I have lately hit the territory of full-blown, TRUE, ACTUAL orgasms with NO ejaculation, and once, without touching myself!!
(Wanted to see if a man could do this. A man can do this. )
You are absolutely right... a man can do this. I did it once whilst sitting in half lotus (no siddhasana), with my hands on my knees, without moving. Full orgasm, no ejaculation. I did it by moving the energy to my pelvic area and then raising it at the last minute just before orgasm. It was kind of hard work though (mentally), and so I havn't tried again!
I was trying to think how I achieve orgasm without ejaculation. I kind of 'go to bliss' at the point of orgasm. If you imagine ecstacy to be centred in the body, and around the genitals, and bliss to be an expanded state (larger than the body) and centred around the head/ heart and silver/gold, then this might give you some idea. I know that is not a very clear description. Your helpful tips are much clearer and easier to follow.
Thanks again.
Christi |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2006 : 10:06:15 AM
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Soon after I started this thread, I've able to stay away from orgasm purely by the right attitude and mental staying power. And about the same time i discovered a vast amount of literatures in Chinese on this subject, which is very complete and include everything that are not available in English. I was so happy to have the knowledge, though I never have time or any desire to learn most of them, since we have only that much time and Yogani's tantric lessons are "quick" and enough for me at the moment.
Concerning the orgasm without ejaculation, I think it's possible. But I wonder to what end this is useful (though surely interesting..). The overwhelming feeling of an orgasm is due mainly to shooting levels of dopamine, not ejaculation. As long as the orgasm feels the same as the traditional one, the biochemistry (and thus its effects on our mind and our yoga) is likely to be the same as the usual orgasm with ejaculation.
Having said that, it's true that long pre-orgasmic sex can be much greater than traditional sex. And the "orgasm" you mean may be something else you feel good in pre-orgasmic sex, which you then call it "orgasm". |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2006 : 3:24:10 PM
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Hi Alvin
quote:
Alvin wrote:
Concerning the orgasm without ejaculation, I think it's possible. But I wonder to what end this is useful (though surely interesting..). The overwhelming feeling of an orgasm is due mainly to shooting levels of dopamine, not ejaculation. As long as the orgasm feels the same as the traditional one, the biochemistry (and thus its effects on our mind and our yoga) is likely to be the same as the usual orgasm with ejaculation.
Orgasm without ejaculation feels exactly like an orgasm with ejaculation only there is no semen released. There is also substantially less loss of vital energy (prana) than with orgasm with ejaculation. Personally I believe there is much less loss of prana than with blocking during orgasm. With blocking the sperm is released, only it is directed into the bladder, and released during urination. With orgasm without ejaculation, no semen is released at all.
I have found that when I am making love with my partner, if I use the blocking technique, then I do not feel like continuing with lovemaking afterwards due to the loss of energy. However with the orgasm without ejaculation I can simply carry on, as there is so little energy loss. I even wonder if there is any at all?
So for me, orgasm without ejaculation (and without blocking) is similar to sustained pre-orgasmic love making, only more powerful because of the added orgasmic element. I wonder if anyone else finds this?
In the AYP lessons, Yogani says that eventually we experience a state of continual 'coming', although he does imply that semen (for a male) is continuously released into the bladder and taken from there into the GI tract and higher still (please correct me if I have got this wrong). So presumably this state is possible with no pranic loss, otherwise enlightened beings would be continuously exhausted .
I am nowhere near that yet, but I think this is the state we are heading for... continuous orgasm with no external release of semen and no loss of prana, with the body drawing semen up as it needs it...
I hope this helps.
Love and Light
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Nov 01 2006 3:25:45 PM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2006 : 10:07:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Alvin
quote:
Alvin wrote:
Concerning the orgasm without ejaculation, I think it's possible. But I wonder to what end this is useful (though surely interesting..). The overwhelming feeling of an orgasm is due mainly to shooting levels of dopamine, not ejaculation. As long as the orgasm feels the same as the traditional one, the biochemistry (and thus its effects on our mind and our yoga) is likely to be the same as the usual orgasm with ejaculation.
Orgasm without ejaculation feels exactly like an orgasm with ejaculation only there is no semen released. There is also substantially less loss of vital energy (prana) than with orgasm with ejaculation. Personally I believe there is much less loss of prana than with blocking during orgasm. With blocking the sperm is released, only it is directed into the bladder, and released during urination. With orgasm without ejaculation, no semen is released at all.
I have found that when I am making love with my partner, if I use the blocking technique, then I do not feel like continuing with lovemaking afterwards due to the loss of energy. However with the orgasm without ejaculation I can simply carry on, as there is so little energy loss. I even wonder if there is any at all?
So for me, orgasm without ejaculation (and without blocking) is similar to sustained pre-orgasmic love making, only more powerful because of the added orgasmic element. I wonder if anyone else finds this?
In the AYP lessons, Yogani says that eventually we experience a state of continual 'coming', although he does imply that semen (for a male) is continuously released into the bladder and taken from there into the GI tract and higher still (please correct me if I have got this wrong). So presumably this state is possible with no pranic loss, otherwise enlightened beings would be continuously exhausted.
I am nowhere near that yet, but I think this is the state we are heading for... continuous orgasm with no external release of semen and no loss of prana, with the body drawing semen up as it needs it...
I hope this helps.
Love and Light
Christi
Best analogy I can think of at the moment is: money. While I've heard (per Alvin's comments, and other views I've read online) that an orgasm, with or without ejaculation - depletes energy -- this has not been my experience.
For me, it's kind of like:
Ejaculatory orgasm = spending money; specifically on something that doesn't last (Example: whirlwind, high-rolling vacation).
(And the analogy carries, in the sense that if you have quite a bit of money in the bank, you can spend a relatively low amount every so often without depleting your reserves - just as you can ejaculate every so often, without "messing up your yoga", as Yogani says).
Energetic orgasm, including muscle spasms (meaning: all but the external ejaculation) = (in my experience) - saving money, and getting a little interest.
Energetic orgasm with full ecstatic conductivity and re-direction of energy to upper chakras = investing money with HUGE "ROI" (Return on Investment).
Point Being: Not only does energetic orgasm (without ejaculation) *not* deplete energy - IF (key "if") it can be re-directed (which seems to comprise a combination of neurophysiological readiness and intention / conscious re-direction of the energy) ---- it seems to provide a HUGE amount of fuel for enhancing ecstatic conductivity -- and therefore enhancement of our yogic / enlightenment path.
All joking aside - my recently mentioned proclivities for solo Tantra practice are for that reason.
I imagine it's a fairly safe bet that this is why we have two main divisions in the AYP Lessons --- and one of those divisions is Tantra.
Hope that helps, also!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS to Christi -- Thanks for the kind words about my explanations. Yours are just fine! Experiences that are SO subtle and subjective are challenging to put into words, for all of us. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2006 : 2:19:11 PM
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I have just noticed that the most recent tantra lesson is a reply to a question from a female practitioner about just this thing.
Coincidence?
She is also able to achieve orgasm just by moving energy (with a little help from Mulabandha and sambavi).
http://www.aypsite.org/T51.html
Love and light
Christi |
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alternatives to blocking?
