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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 8:40:43 PM
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Hi everyone. Though obviously Yoga is primarily a subjective, spiritual-type pursuit and thus isn't always amenable to quantification of this kind I've been thinking lately about some of the outwardly visible/measurable manifestations of accomplishment in Yoga and meditation. I decided to make a list of changes in the body and other physical signs of progress, including ones I've personally experienced and ones I've heard of in order to see what people think. Ironically, I think the most advanced "Yogi" I've ever met may have been my old Qigong teacher, so in some cases I'm using him as an example, though this is not to imply some exact equivalence between Yoga and Qigong (though I think a lot of the physical signs of progress would be the same or similar). Remember, this isn't a list of subjective, mental or spiritual changes like "increased feelings of ecstasy and relaxation" or "increased inner silence." I'm trying to stick to the strictly physically observable here:
Changes I've personally experienced:
--increased blood flow: I notice the more I practice, the more noticeable blood vessels become and the more blood seems to flow throughout my body readily. When I practice pranayama now, for example, my face and hands tends to get red and blotchy, which they didn't before. My qigong teacher once mentioned that an accomplished qigong practitioner will have especially prominent blood vessels on the forehead like a "v." Consider this picture of David Life as an example of what I mean: http://kylemilleryoga.files.wordpre..._brading.jpg --it certainly looks like his third eye is getting a lot of oxygen, doesn't it? I think the blood vessels of the neck are also noticeable--look at this picture of Swami Kriyananda as an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:S...-pronam2.jpg
--increased lung capacity: not only can I breath more and more smoothly, the extent to which my chest, upper back and rib cage can expand has increased a lot over time. Sri Shailendra here certainly looks like his lungs could hold a lot of air: http://www.siddhasiddhanta.com/shail.html
--increased flexibility: It seems easier to develop higher and higher levels of flexibility the more I practice. This certainly seems true of the aforementioned Qigong teacher who can do splits in his 50s. Of course, lots of Yogis do a lot of asanas and my qigong teacher did Kung Fu, so there may be a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem--are all advanced yogis or enlightened people necessarily very flexible? Not sure, but I'd imagine they'd tend to be as an open nervous system should allow the muscles to relax and extend more.
--muscle tone: though I've not noticed this as much on myself yet, it was very noticable on my qigong teacher that his muscles were very soft like a baby if he was not tensing them but rock hard if he was. I imagine the advanced Yogi or Qigong practitioner carries a lower constant level of tension in his/her muscles than average.
--drawing up of some sexual fluids into the bladder: aka vajroli. Physically-observable in men by the occasional appearance of semen in the urine.
--smoother, faster digestion
--more tendency to hold air in the digestive tract
--pleasant smells in the mouth and nasal cavity: aka amrita
Changes I've heard of but not personally experienced:
--minty feeling in the digestive tract: aka soma (not sure if this counts since it's a 'feeling,' but not having experienced it I don't want to deny the tangibility of the experience).
--less need for sleep (maybe I need a little less sleep than before I began Yoga, but it's not dramatically less yet)
--dreams: heard a variety of things here. Some gurus I've read (Osho, Nithyananda) claim that enlightened person has few or no dreams (so presumably all deep sleep). My qigong teacher on the other hand says he has lots of very colorful dreams. My personal experience has tended toward the latter with dreams being more vivid and a little more lucid. I don't know if this ultimately results in no dreams or just very vivid dreams. (This one's also a bit ephemeral/subjective, but I figured it went with changes in sleep).
--shiny or oily quality of the skin: aka ojas
Have other people experienced some or all of these? Are some of them not strictly related to/necessary for accomplishment in Yoga? Are there other important ones I'm forgetting or don't know about?
Anyway, probably a very incomplete list, but I'd be happy for any comments or ideas on additions or subtractions. Although I'm guessing some people might think focusing on physical manifestations is misguided in a spiritual pursuit, I personally think it is good to pay attention to, not only because Yoga, as I understand it, involves unity with the body as opposed to separation from it, and also because I think physically observable changes provide useful benchmarks and indicators in such a subjective and sometimes heady pursuit.
For example, though I certainly wouldn't choose a Yoga teacher on his or her physical appearance alone, would one not be well-advised to pick the one who looks like he has good circulation and relaxed breathing over the one who does not?
Anyway, this is partially just my own musing, but I would very much like to hear any opinions, experiences, etc. Thanks :) |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Feb 18 2010 10:35:13 AM |
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Christine
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 11:37:27 PM
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so.. whats going to happen within your consciousness as you get older and possibly sickly? or.. what if you got hit by a bus tomorrow? .. not trying to be rude here.. but what i am getting at is, i am wondering if you are overly identified with your body ..body is transient.. anything going on within your consciousness?
physical fitness is great..but what you describe is not unsual at any health fitness club..
what are the observable changesd within? |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 02:08:02 AM
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Apart from the things you have mentioned above, I had a circular impression on my forehead: http://www.balbro.com/dent.jpg
See old post here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=6345
Strangely, its gone now. I guess its because the energy focus is now shifted from third eye to the crown.
These days, after meditation, I have tremendous energy coming out from my crown...
A few days ago I placed my hands on the crown and the energy almost fractured/broke my fingers. The pain lasted in the fingers for a few months and I was unable to work properly.
The energy is like a laser beam... you can't see it but you can feel it. Like when you try to place two magnets together at like poles... they repel each other. You can't see the energy that is repelling or attracting but its there.
We have a very powerful energy inside us and no doubt it can change/modify the visible/physical too. |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 06:50:40 AM
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Hi Manigma,
I find it hard to believe that "the energy coming out of your head almost broke your fingers". Are you not exagerating? BTW, where, in India, do you live? If what you say is true, I would like to find an opportunity to meet you, and perhaps learn something.(sincerely)
Krish
Krish |
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manigma
India
1065 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 08:12:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by krcqimpro1
Hi Manigma,
I find it hard to believe that "the energy coming out of your head almost broke your fingers". Are you not exagerating? BTW, where, in India, do you live? If what you say is true, I would like to find an opportunity to meet you, and perhaps learn something.(sincerely)
Krish
haha, no, its true. see this post: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=7144
I realised later what had happened.
For a few days, after the meditation, I would put my hands over my head. Like this:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/20..._468x295.jpg
http://images.veer.com/IMG/PIMG/CCP...008511_P.JPG
The hands would stick/glue to my head like a strong magnet. I could then feel the energy surging out from the crown. There was no pain but I could feel the force almost lifting me upwards. I guess the hands were sort of assisting/controlling the flow/work of energy.
I live in north and have no problem to meet. But I don't think you can learn anything from me. You already know everything. Be still and know. |
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tamasaburo
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 10:21:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Apart from the things you have mentioned above, I had a circular impression on my forehead: http://www.balbro.com/dent.jpg
Things like this make me think about the seemingly bizarre "physical properties of the Buddha" (32 Signs of the Great Man) Of some I can make neither heads nor tails (webbed fingers and toes?) but some seem like they'd logically connect to accomplishment in Yoga. Consider:
--arms that reach the knees: maybe he's really flexible and has loose shoulders?
--really longue tongue: maybe he's done a lot of tongue-milking for kechari?
--large, broad chest like a lion: maybe he has big lungs and a v-shape like Sri Shailendra up there.
--gold skin: ojas?
And so on. Just something to consider. I realize it's not the most important, but people have obviously been considering physical signs of the enlightened for a long time. |
Edited by - tamasaburo on Feb 18 2010 10:28:42 AM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2010 : 8:09:32 PM
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There are many Sufis, who look like they will die within some hours but only appear to you like that in purpose.
There are old fully enlightened people that really can't give you any clue about their inner reality through their outer appearance. And again there are physically god-like people with no realization at all.
So in my experience many good physical sideeffects come from asanas and pranayama and mudras together with meditation. The biggest difference physically for me is health. When "good levels" get stable after some months to 1-2 years of stable practice, then my body is much much less affected healthwise from anything that happens. The nose is open, diggestion works fine.
If a bigger pause happens ( hope this time it will go on smoothly =P), than the nose and diggetion are the first ones who "cry". |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 10:26:15 AM
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So much about the physical results of practice are mythologized. One thing that is pretty noticeable though is radiance.
Adamant |
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Jivaakabhasana_Yogi
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2010 : 11:30:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight
So much about the physical results of practice are mythologized. One thing that is pretty noticeable though is radiance.
Adamant
Aauummm
Bur Buvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bargo Devasya Dimahi
Diyo Yo Na Prachodayat
Aauummm Shanti Shanti Shanti,
I entirely agree Adamant,
Oh, BTW I love your name "Adamant", it could both, or either refer to "Adamantine- DEF: Having the hardness or luster of a diamond", and of course it might refer to Stuart Leslie Goddard or Adam Ant from Adam and the Ants... :-)
Much of the talk made of physical "signs", I suppose "bugs" me, while many of them are consistent and true, they are simply more "window dressing."
I know of one individual in the Western Mysteries (personally) that reached the point of deconstructing and reconstituting the "form" of his physical body at will, and has been doing so for roughly 70 years now (don't ask whom.) He would have been the first to tell you, that much like the Siddhis...such is designed not to be "operated", much rather they are "naturally occuring phenomenon, if and when an "individual" reaches a point in their evolution, and that such Siddhis "only naturally appear/occur when the Universe sees fit to meet a need/fill a void, etc..." I tend to agree.
It goes back to my post in another thread where I said:
quote:
Posted - Feb 17 2010 : 7:59:26 PM
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Ad Gur' Nameh, Jugad Gur' Nameh, Sad Gur' Nameh, Sri Gur'Dev' Nameh...
I SO agree Kirtanman,
You said:
quote:
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All you have to do is practice daily, and be willing to let go; everything else will take care of itself .... because that's what this beautiful Universe we each and all are now does, when we let it. There's only One.
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One of the lifelong issues for me, being someone who was "yogically wired" was that not only did I pay attention to the "scenery" I revelled in it...I was and remain very capable of "pushing through and creating/activating yogic/shaktic phenomenon...and based my life experience upon this.
As a very young (very young) child, I experienced the Unbounded, what I call the "Everlasting Ocean of Prem", and have sought over and over again to go "back there." I was so distracted by, and addicted to yogic experience that I would literally blow out my wiring and have all kind of bad side effects, and heal, then do it again, for years and years.
Now, with the A.Y.P. approach, I have made it part of my practice to allow the scenery if it occurs, but to remain unattached, and notice when I am becoming/are attached to it. In doing so, the only way I can describe it, is that in surrendering/letting go of "experiences", what used to be overpowering yogic phenomenon, have "sunk deeper" in my beingness, than ever before... The power of these shaktis have instead dropped deeply into the body, mind and emotions, and create lasting change...then when window dressing does appear, it is usually not during formal practice, but as a manifestation of it, during my "normal" everyday life.
See: "The Fruits of Our Labor" at: http://aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7290
I also agree re: "radiance" (which of course means many different things...I prefer "benign influence", such as the Buddha's radiance being "felt" up to five kilometers away. Such is the basis for Darshan...and why I feel (IMONSHO) that in this age true Darshan, will come from those of us who "dive in deeply" whilst just living our normal (or not so normal LOL) lives.
To be certain, I've experienced many physiological changes, some amazing...such is also part of the Western Mysteries...there is both a physical and energetic/mental and emotional evolution, development and growth. But in being caught up by such, is much the same as "someday I'll get 'there' ", as that "someday" is today, right now, and only right now, and not "then" or "later." There is much romance made of being "here now", but the idea is actually quite a bit simpler and less "profound" than at first glance, and is the basis (again IMO) of what we are doing here with AYP, and others practice utilize other methods.
regards,
~Jivaakabhasana Yogi |
Edited by - Jivaakabhasana_Yogi on Feb 19 2010 11:34:56 AM |
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Pheel
China
318 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2010 : 8:09:01 PM
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Hi all,
Is it normal to have a kind of basin like concavity on the right top of your head? Is it possibly sign of something? I also have a similar basin on my chest bone. Both of them native to me.
Does any one happen to know what they are, or they are simply defections?
Namaste |
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Jnaga
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2010 : 01:50:24 AM
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I've noticed something with the lungs. After practice it is really easy to have a satisfying full feeling in the lungs.
Also, during pranayama, my body heats up. I can be a little cold starting, and my body heats up and stays heated up for the entire practice and beyond. |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Mar 09 2010 : 09:30:47 AM
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Smiles
Laughter
Light
Joy
Patience
Compassion. |
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Physical Signs of the Advanced Yogi(ni)
