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Originally posted by alwayson2

what is non-relational self-inquiry?

Almost nooone does self-inquiry right. I only got it after I got it. It only works in hindsight.

I would say not to waste time with self-inquiry. It does work, but only in hindsight.

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Originally posted by Christi



Hi Kirtanman,

Absolutely!

There is even a description in the Gita where Krishna gives Arjuna a vision of the true nature of the Self and shows him how reality looks from the perspective of cosmic consciousness.

**

http://www.thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_11.htm

Christi

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi Kirtanman :)

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Originally posted by Kirtanman
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

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Here are two quotes from the Gospel of Thomas, from "The Secret Teachings of Jesus", that your words made me look up:

"He said, "A person is like a wise fisher who cast a net into the sea, and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisher discovered a fine big fish. So the fisher threw all the little fish back into the sea, and with no hesitation kept the big fish. Whoever has ears to hear ought to listen"
...

"Jesus said, "There was a rich farmer who had a great deal of money. The farmer said, 'I shall invest my money so that I may sow, reap, pland and fill my storehouses with produce. Then I shall have everything.' These were the plans, but that very night the farmer died. Whoever has ears ought to listen".
Are any of these quotes the preceeding context from which your statement was derived?

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Originally posted by Kirtanman


"One of these days, you're going to figure out: 'Adya, I need you like I need a hole in the head!!'"

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Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
That is my favorite Adyashanti quote too! :)

:)
TI

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Originally posted by alwayson2

The truth can be written in one sentence, but he has to write whole books to make money.

The truth is to nonconceptually distinguish between clear/vivid awareness of the NOW and the thoughtstream. See that doesn't fill a book does it?

And although there are no stages in this process (because time literally does not exist as anything else besides a mental concept), people will write whole books on stages just to make a buck.

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Originally posted by Christi

Hi Adamant,

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Then would these terms also represent that which is neither real nor unreal?

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Yes that's right, beyond both. All terms are relative, but they can point to that which is beyond the relative.

The Buddha once said that his teachings were like dreams, but they were special dreams, because they were dreams which had the power to awaken the dreamer.

Christi

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Originally posted by Christi
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As I see it, it is not two kinds of karma, but one. When we see an object, the light from the object enters our eye. Then, there is mental recognition of the object (this is a tree, a rock etc.). Then a subtle process of relation happens, which is a colouring of the object according to our latent impressions.
...

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Originally posted by WayneWirs


Most posters on this thread have been talking about what it is like at the bottom of the glass (via quotes from mostly dead people), but they seem to be overlooking what it will take for themselves to get there. I suspect, deep in their unconscious, there is a powerful desire to circumvent the the neck of the hourglass. To circumvent dropping the ego. If you succumb to that desire ("I can THINK my way to enlightenment"), you'll waste years and years of your life. I sure did. About thirty of them.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

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Originally posted by alwayson2

Kirtanman,

Even if you see the Sambhogakaya sitting under a tree, you have no interest in it, because you have realized the nature of the mind yourself. Please read Flight of the Garuda everyone.

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Originally posted by Kirtanman


Hey All,

Wayne (Wirs) uploaded a couple of videos of himself, describing enlightenment, his experiences, and some of the pitfalls he experienced.

Check them out here.

Wholeheartedly,

Kirtanman

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When a beginning devotee is going up the path, he is spontaneously superconscious now and again. After his first samadhi, he has realized that he has had longer periods of superconsciousness. After his second samadhi, he will be more and more aware of the superconscious mind, and after the next samadhi, he will be even more and more aware of the superconscious mind. However, each will unfold the superconscious mind and superconscious possibilities, powers, etc., differently than another, due to the fact that all have different backgrounds, personalities and such; for though he realizes the Self, the entirety of the basic nature does not change. However, his understanding of his own control of his tendencies, the overall control that he has, and his ability to mold his own life -- that starts a process which transforms him gradually and increasingly as he becomes more and more familiar with the laws of going into and out of nirvikalpa samadhi.

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What must be really sought after, in order for one as a Self-Realized person to fulfill his destiny of bringing others into Self Realization, is a pure samadhi which will keep the pure teachings of advaita yoga alive on the Earth through the sannyasins. Everything on Earth comes through people. Everything of advanced knowledge has come through people. Self Realization is the pure teachings of yoga attained on the Earth through people who talk, breathe, live just like the Self-Realized soul does.

If he goes into nirvikalpa samadhi and becomes ramified in the psychic powers that come after samadhi, after his first samadhi, his second samadhi, his third samadhi, he will become more intense and will realize new possibilities within himself. If he remains on those planes of the phenomena of the occultism of the mind, then he gains new and fascinating powers of the mechanism of the mind, but he loses the power to bring others along the path into samadhi. If the renunciate maintains a clean samadhi and comes back into the mind, he realizes he has had some extrasensory perceptions, and he does not use them. He does not use them at all unless, of course, he uses them quite naturally, just as naturally as he would enjoy a meal, but he does not dwell on supernatural powers as anything special. He is at every point in time just who he is.

What the renunciate is taught to dwell on would be the next time and the next time he would be going into samadhi. Then he awakens a strong current within himself that can bring others into samadhi. By dropping off unessential powers, he gains one great power. That is the one great power that those who have realized the Self want, the power to bring others into Self Realization. You can only do that by having first attained a pure Self Realization yourself and going into samadhi again and again and again. Remember, the sannyasin's destiny is this: having realized the Self, bring others into the pure realization of the Self, and teach other sannyasins to go into samadhi and come out with a well-balanced mind, without deviating one way or another on the psychic planes.

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After his first nirvikalpa samadhi, the renunciate'sconcentration and his practice of concentration should be easier. His first step in practicing samadhi would be to concentrate upon one physical object, that is if he cannot see his inner light. And if his mind is confused, he won't be able to see the inner light, like before he went into his first samadhi. Only after he has gone into samadhi many, many, many times, where his whole body becomes filled with light, will he then see his inner light all the time, twenty-four hours a day. But at first he won't. He will have his first breakthrough, but he won't see the light all the time.
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The light, really, is the friction of the superconscious mind against the conscious and subconscious mind. In my way of looking at it, it is an electrical friction. The odic forces and the actinic forces merging causes light and sound.

So, when he sees this brilliant light right in his head -- more brilliant than he has ever seen, intensified brilliance -- he tries to find the center of it. When he finds the center of it, again trying to open up that light like a camera lens, he will then come into a state of consciousness called Satchidananda, a state of pure consciousness, a state of pure bliss, savikalpa samadhi. Here he won't be in a brilliant light anymore. Above him it will look like he is looking way up in the sky, into outer space, and the color of it will be a whitish blue. That will be the akasha he will be in.

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In the akasha, he would be able to go into all sorts of psychic phenomena. We don't want that. We don't want to utilize the akasha in that way, because then we cause the growth of gross matter in the subconscious mind, which is capable of imprinting into the akasha things that we want to happen. Then we could go in the akasha and see them. We will see those forms change shape from what we have, from our own subconscious, imprinted in the subconscious. Then, through the power of the light, it takes form in the akasha, and we can have a little world of our own going around on the inside, and that is called psychism or occultism. We don't want that. Nor do we want to tune in with anybody else who is also in the akasha, because that leads us away from the purity of yoga.

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As we have previously studied, there are seven different states in the superconscious mind, seven different states and usages. The very first is the light. And the pure consciousness state that we just discussed is the seventh state. All the others we want to avoid. It is not that it wouldn't be possible to get into them and develop them, but we want to definitely avoid them, because they are, shall we say, deterrents to the purities in the Self. So, we shall avoid them by going from basic inner light to a more intense light and popping out into a pure state of consciousness. The sannyasin will still have an overall consciousness of the physical body. As a matter of fact, when he is looking down at the physical body, it might just appear like a shadow to him. It is not advisable for him to look down at the physical body in consciousness, for that will lead him down into the sixth or fifth plane of consciousness, and we don't want to be there in the superconscious. Then other things will intervene, and he won't achieve the samadhi. He will have to come out and start over again. So, these investigations we want to avoid, because they are not necessary, ever, though they are not impossible. When he is in his pure state of consciousness, then he has to look for the continuation of the kundalini force or, shall we say, the continuation of the nerve currents that house the kundalini force. In conscious-mind terms, that will look like a tube or a nerve current which would be issued right from the top of the head.

In this state of pure consciousness, like in outer space, he tries to find just one nerve current right at the top of the head. When he finds this nerve current at the top of the head, he is taught to concentrate on it from where it begins at the top of the head right up to the end of it, and soon he finds the end of it. The experience of experiences. Of course if he has a mishmash in his subconscious mind, he won't be able to hold this pure state of consciousness. The subconscious mind in its power and intensity of this contemplation will begin picking up, and he will be coming right back into outer consciousness. But if his subconscious is fairly clean and under control, then he will be able to hold it, and he will hold it quite naturally. It will be a natural state to him after Self Realization.

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What is life like after realization? One difference is the relationship to possessions. Everything is yours, even if you don't own it. This is because you are secure in the Self as the only reality, the only permanence, and the security that depends on having possessions is gone. After Self Realization, we no longer have to go into ourself. Rather, we go out of ourself to see the world. We are always coming out rather than trying to go in. There is always a center, and we are the center, no matter where we are. No matter where we are, no matter how crude or rotten, the vibrations around us will not affect us. Curiosity is the final thing to leave the mind, which it does after Self Realization. The curiosity of things goes away -- of siddhis, for example. We no longer want power, because we are power, nonpower, unusable. And we don't have the yearning for Parasiva anymore; we don't have the yearning for the Self. And Satchidananda is now to us similar to what the intellect used to be. If we want to go to a far-off place, we go into Satchidananda and see it. It is that easy. Samyama, contemplation, is effortless to you now, like the intellect used to be; whereas before, samyama was a very big job which took a lot of energy and concentration. Therefore, before Parasiva we should not seek the siddhis. After Parasiva, through samyama, we keep the siddhis we need for our work.

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For ultimate freedom, everything has to go away, all human things, possessions, love, hate, family, friends, the desire for attention and community acceptance. The sannyasin renounces the world, and then, if his giving up is uncompromisingly complete, the world renounces the sannyasin. This means the world itself won't accept him as it once did as a participant in its mundane transactions of a job, social life, home and family. Earlier friends and associates sense his different view of their existence and now feel uncomfortable with him. Slowly he joins the band of hundreds of thousands of sannyasins throughout the world, where he is joyously accepted. All must go, the past and the future, and will naturally depart as the great realization deepens, as it penetrates through all parts of the body and all states of the mind. This alone is one good reason that family people and noncommitted singles are never encouraged to strive for realizations higher than Satchidananda, and then only for brief periods now and again at auspicious times. For family people, grihasthas, to go further into themselves would be to earn the bad karmas, kukarmas, of subsequent neglect of family dharma, and to lose everything that the world values.

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Many people have flashes of light in their head and think they are totally enlightened beings, then let down in their sadhana and daily worship to later suffer the consequences. Enlightenment brings certain traditionally unwanted rewards: attention, adulation; one becomes the center of attraction, knows more than others and can exist on words, sentences, paragraphs, chapters, for a long time, even after the light fades and human emotions well up and new mixed karmas build. He then may become known as having attained the erratic human behavior of the "enlightened" person. This is totally unacceptable on the spiritual path. Once enlightened, or "in-light," even to a small degree because of daily sadhana, stay enlightened because of daily sadhana. Once having intellectually realized Vedic truths and become able to explain them because of study and daily sadhana, then realize these truths by intensifying the daily sadhanas, lest the remaining prarabdha karmas germinate and create new unwanted karmas to be lived through at a later time.

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Diligence is needed, lest higher consciousness fall unknowingly on the slippery slide of ignorance into the realms of lower consciousness, of fear, anger, resentment, jealousy, loneliness, malice and distrust. The faint memories of the beginning enlightenment experiences still hover, and while now in lower consciousness but still emulating the higher qualities in personal behavior, the now unenlightened claims full benefit for the previous enlightenment. Shame! This is because he did not maintain his disciplines after enlightenment. He let down and became an egocentric person.

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Originally posted by WayneWirs
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So come on down! Just see your personal self, see how it is screwing up your life and how it is BLOCKING you from seeing the Light (which BTW, I talk about constantly on my blog) and then drop the personal self so you can slip through to the bottom of the hourglass. THEN focus on creating worlds, reading peoples minds, teleporting to Caprica, or playing God. But you've got to drop your personal self first. It's as simple as that.

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Ultimately, you begin to go through the harrowing experiences of past karma with your eyes firmly set upon your ultimate goal: Self Realization. As you live your life in service to mankind, reprogramming your subconscious and facing all of the things that you didn't face fully through your many past lives while working with your emotions and intellect, finally you come to the crucifixion of the ego. This happens when your last experiences have begun to fade and you no longer see yourself as a "Mr. Somebody" who came from some community somewhere, who is of a certain nationality and who, incidentally, distinguishes himself from all other people because he is on the path to enlightenment and he knows a lot of people that are not.

This great spiritual pride of the personal ego finally is crucified. It is put on the cross of man's own spiritual discernment. The death of the ego is a tremendous experience. You go through the dark night of the soul and feel that your family, friends and even the Gods have deserted you. During this time, you do not see light anymore. You see blackness all through the body, as all of the accumulated experiences of the many, many lives come in on you and you are not even aware where your awareness is in the mind. You can't figure it all out. It happens too rapidly. Then finally: "I am That. I am." You burst into the Self God.

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Therefore, isn't a prerequisite of becoming enlightened the ability to enter nirvikalpa samadhi at will?

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So, if you have the feeling that you've finally arrived, it is not a good indication of enlightenment.

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I don't think it's right to reduce the meaning of the word 'enlightenment' like western Oneness teachers have done and then proceed to lay claim to it or teach others how to attain that state.

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just so I have the correct practices to follow and the proper sign-posts that tell me how far I am from my goal.

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Originally posted by CarsonZi

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Originally posted by Kirtanman
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You're operating at a distinct disadvantage, because you're not experiencing enlightenment or anything close to it, currently.
...

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Neither are you necessarily far from it; it boils down to willingness to let go of any identification with abstractions .... including the one you think of as "myself" (Tibetan Ice).

That's why silence, stillness ... pure awareness, free from the disturbance of thought ... is key.

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As you live your life in service to mankind, reprogramming your subconscious and facing all of the things that you didn't face fully through your many past lives while working with your emotions and intellect, finally you come to the crucifixion of the ego. This happens when your last experiences have begun to fade and you no longer see yourself as a "Mr. Somebody" who came from some community somewhere, who is of a certain nationality and who, incidentally, distinguishes himself from all other people because he is on the path to enlightenment and he knows a lot of people that are not.

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You're operating at a distinct disadvantage, because you're not experiencing enlightenment or anything close to it, currently."

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