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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 2:34:12 PM
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Sex became conflated with kundalini, but in reality sex and kundalini have nothing to do with each other.
Even the Tibetans don't get it honestly. But they are not at fault. They are a victim of translational history from India to Tibet.
What happened was there were indeed sexual practices, but these had more to do with realizing everything is pure in the universe.
Kundalini was separate, but became conflated with the above. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Sep 11 2009 2:41:21 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 2:42:31 PM
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So in summary:
Sex is a part of tantra.
Kundlani is a part of tantra.
But sex is not a part of kundalini. |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 3:04:50 PM
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Hi Alwayson:
Whether there is a relationship between sex and kundalini or not is not a philosophical point. It is an experiential one.
For those who experience kundalini as an expansion of sexual function, that is what it is. And for those who do not, it isn't.
Either way is fine. Practice, and it will be what it will be. There is no point in debating what someone else's experience ought to be, or how they ought to interpret it. Better to practice, and encourage others to do the same. Then it will all come out in the wash.
The best knowledge is found in direct experience, not from anywhere else. All the great scriptures of the ages are a second-hand shadow of the eternal light shining in every one of us here and now.
The guru is in you.
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 3:05:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
So in summary:
Sex is a part of tantra.
Kundlani is a part of tantra.
But sex is not a part of kundalini.
What!!! My understanding of Kundalini is the same as this FAQ
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=2169#2169 |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 5:06:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Whether there is a relationship between sex and kundalini or not is not a philosophical point. It is an experiential one.
I am talking from experience as well. The genital center does not directly map onto the sushumna. Anyone can feel this for themselves.
There definitely is sex in tantra. But it is separate meaning and purpose than kundalini. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 11 2009 5:25:24 PM |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 7:08:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
I am talking from experience as well. The genital center does not directly map onto the sushumna. Anyone can feel this for themselves.
There definitely is sex in tantra. But it is separate meaning and purpose than kundalini.
All I know from my experience is that during...eh, tantric practices  I am able to use my attention to direct the sexual energy I'm experiencing right into the sushumna and right up to the third eye...huge kundalini stimulator for me...
I don't know what to call it...other than awesome  |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 7:53:35 PM
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| Forgive for interjecting, but my experience is that kundalini is just attention. As sex it is attached to the sex organ. When the attention is released (by dropping the "I"), it just spontaneously rises into the heart (primarily), neck and the head (and above it), responding to attention of non-duality with everything else. Then "kunda" is spread out all over. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Sep 11 2009 8:01:05 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 8:03:38 PM
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| From my experience, I will have to disagree with that Osel. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 11 2009 8:07:28 PM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 8:47:29 PM
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| huh? |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 10:47:51 PM
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quote:
There definitely is sex in tantra. But it is separate meaning and purpose than kundalini.
Expand on this. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 10:50:02 PM
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Kundalini energy is the same as sexual energy, which is the same as what produces humans, animals, flowers, life.
The reason it is confusing is because it manifests differently in different places. When it is in the sexual organs and lower chakras we feel it as sexual. But when we feel it in other parts of the body, it still can feel orgasmic, but we don't usually call it sex.
Martial artists use that same energy for fighting, healers use it for healing, and there are other uses. You can call it a different name everytime it moves if you want. Just like Eskimos have a hundred words for snow. |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2009 : 11:28:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parallax
I don't know what to call it...other than awesome
Thanks for the laugh, Parallax 
I agree, although I tend to not call it anything |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:22:42 AM
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nice one Parallax, oh and for alwayson and konshok can you explain natural vajroli when it happens after ejaculation or why whenever i am into brahmasharia there seems to be more ecstatic energy present and why do i have an erection even during a practice like deep meditation...
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 02:30:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
...sex and kundalini have nothing to do with each other.
Energy is always in movement -- either going out or coming in. Energy can never be static. These are the laws. When an impulse, any impulse, comes to you, it means energy is moving out. When you stop suddenly, the energy cannot be static in you. You have become static, but the energy cannot be static in you, and the mechanism through which it was moving out is not dead, it has stopped.
So what can the energy do? The energy cannot do anything other than move inward.
The Book of Secrets - Osho <http://rapidshare.com/files/8233179...rets.pdf> |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 11:22:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manig
quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
...sex and kundalini have nothing to do with each other.
Energy is always in movement -- either going out or coming in. Energy can never be static. These are the laws. When an impulse, any impulse, comes to you, it means energy is moving out. When you stop suddenly, the energy cannot be static in you. You have become static, but the energy cannot be static in you, and the mechanism through which it was moving out is not dead, it has stopped.
So what can the energy do? The energy cannot do anything other than move inward.
The Book of Secrets - Osho <http://rapidshare.com/files/8233179...rets.pdf>
The power of potential... not moving... emptiness... deepest penetration of insight... |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 11:31:58 AM
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manig, research some of the controversies of Osho.
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
But when we feel it in other parts of the body, it still can feel orgasmic
Thats the nature of the energy body, including the genital center. But it has nothing to do with sex or the genital center singularly. |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 12 2009 11:34:23 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 11:40:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Whether there is a relationship between sex and kundalini or not is not a philosophical point. It is an experiential one.
I am talking from experience as well. The genital center does not directly map onto the sushumna. Anyone can feel this for themselves.
There definitely is sex in tantra. But it is separate meaning and purpose than kundalini.
i'm a bit in confessing this but hey it's just neuro spirituality; So let's just say that it happened with me during tantra practice and spinal breathing.
but there was an erection and i could follow the white tube and feel it from the head of Ananda Junior back to the perineum than up to the sushumna...
with love
Ananda |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 11:54:39 AM
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Ananda exactly!!
The gential center connects with the perineum, not the sushumna directly |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Sep 12 2009 2:11:32 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:20:09 PM
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Hi Ananda, alwayson and all
quote:
back to the perineum than up to the sushumna...
Yes....
I still remember...years back....when the Kundalini rose up the Shushumna for the first time. I was sitting at my kitchen table....after months of spontaneous many-times-a-day-orgasms (no junior involved *LOL*).....There was some kind of...vacuum...suction......in the perineum....everything went completely still for a while...and then the energy that had already travelled other routes for a long time....all of a sudden travelled up the central channel.....
So...although there is not a "linear map" to follow....there is certainly an experiencial route...and I never needed a map for that. It matters not what I call it.
Here...there is absolutely no difference between sexual energy and Kundalini.....it is all the same energy....only it is transformed and perceived differently through the chakras....just like electricity is perceived differently according to where it is released. Also...the same energy keeps transforming itself and becomes more and more refined....it is seldom located below the heart anymore.....only if I will it .....and I stopped that quite a while ago....the love in the heart is more than enough....
Ananda.....thanks for your openness |
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manig
India
88 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:27:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by alwayson2
manig, research some of the controversies of Osho.
life is too short my friend to waste researching controversies
btw, this has been the most controversial book of osho:
http://balbro.com/s2s/
you can get your answer in the first chapter |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:44:12 PM
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brother Alwayson, first i would appreciate it if you would reply to my first post.
scd the ecstatic energy rises straight up from the perineum right! so there seems to be a sexual connection to the whole thing.
and while tantra blocking and holding back and redirecting... the connection seems to be there as well...
i am not a man who is so much fund of arguments but the spiritual or ecstatic connection is there and i can feel it clearly...
now i am not an expert on nerve anatomy, i mean i can feel that there is a direct spiritual connection which can go both ways as an orbit as well (like in the microcosmic orbit) but if you mean that there is a physical block between the nerves than i would like to see some explanation of that just to clear the whole thing.
but if you want my plain and honest opinion, i disagree with you heartily and see all myself as connected ecstaticly from toe to crown every synch of the whole thing (whole body mudra!)
and there are to sources of it all, the yellow or sometimes ecstatic fiery energy which comes from the muladhara which is sexual kundalini shakti and the white energy which comes to the body from two doorways either from the crown or the point between the eyebrows and they both meet in loving sexual blissful union.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:48:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Hi Ananda, alwayson and all
quote:
back to the perineum than up to the sushumna...
Yes....
I still remember...years back....when the Kundalini rose up the Shushumna for the first time. I was sitting at my kitchen table....after months of spontaneous many-times-a-day-orgasms (no junior involved *LOL*).....There was some kind of...vacuum...suction......in the perineum....everything went completely still for a while...and then the energy that had already travelled other routes for a long time....all of a sudden travelled up the central channel.....
So...although there is not a "linear map" to follow....there is certainly an experiencial route...and I never needed a map for that. It matters not what I call it.
Here...there is absolutely no difference between sexual energy and Kundalini.....it is all the same energy....only it is transformed and perceived differently through the chakras....just like electricity is perceived differently according to where it is released. Also...the same energy keeps transforming itself and becomes more and more refined....it is seldom located below the heart anymore.....only if I will it .....and I stopped that quite a while ago....the love in the heart is more than enough....
Ananda.....thanks for your openness
Love ya sweet Katrine (Heart), thk you for your beautiful contribution |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 12:52:16 PM
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Hi ananda
quote:
and there are to sources of it all, the yellow or sometimes ecstatic fiery energy which comes from the muladhara which is sexual kundalini shakti and the white energy which comes to the body from two doorways either from the crown or the point between the eyebrows and they both meet in loving sexual blissful union.
Yes. This is how I experience it too. The white energy from above (I call it "the white band of truth"....marries the....coolfiery shakti ...and the union goes way beyond the body.
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 2:21:12 PM
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Hi everybody (and energy!)
thanks for the interesting posts.
I haven't assisted to the inner divine union yet (!) - still climbing up the stairway to the divine bedroom - but to put it simple:
there's only one energy. There's no "sexual energy" and another energy.
It is the same energy (call it sexual, kundalini, shakti, life force, whatever) which can be directed up or down.
And if the down is blocked, then it needs to move up.
But if the up is blocked too - obstructions - then what happens is not such a pleasant experience... (cf. forced celibacy)
And when you look around, there's nothing but Life energy, Sexual energy in nature: the blossoming flowers, the butterflies, etc. all is nothing but divine sexual energy playing around!
Meanwhile, we, humanbeings, are playing with words :)
trying to grasp which is beyond words..
Finally, just wanted to say that we are fortunate that all the mysteries are not revealed... it gives us freedom of exploring in a unique way for each one of us the inner treasures.
...on the way...! |
Edited by - christiane on Sep 12 2009 2:28:19 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 2:25:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
quote:
There definitely is sex in tantra. But it is separate meaning and purpose than kundalini.
Expand on this.
Sex in tantra had to do with the consumption of traditional Indian taboo substances, like meat, feces, semen, mentral blood.
Thus everything is "Shiva" and "pure". |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2009 : 2:31:44 PM
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Hi Alwayson:
As I said early in this topic, feel free to share your experiences and interpretations of them. It will be honored here. But be careful about dishonoring the experiences of others and arguing against them in an "ad nauseum" fashion. It is not appropriate.
As mentioned elsewhere, these forums are for support of the AYP system of practices, not for promoting endless arguments, Buddhist or otherwise.
If you take a closer look at the AYP lessons, you will see that all of the practices on the ecstatic conductivity (kundalini) side are related to the cultivation of higher pranic/energetic expression, beginning and connecting with the pelvic region, i.e., the storehouse of sexual energy. This is a fundamental principle (and experience) in AYP, and not subject to endless arguments. It is what it is, just as core Buddhist principles are what they are, and not subject to ad nausem arguments in any forum that aspires to be useful to its readership.
Practices such as spinal breathing pranayama, mulabandha/asvini, sambhavi, siddhasana, yoni mudra kumbhaka, kechari, uddiyana/nauli, chin pump, nauli and shatkarmas, tantric sex, and others are all related to cultivating ecstatic conductivity within us. From there we find natural vajroli arising (continuous upward absorption of sexual essences), whole body mudra, and other developments throughout the body, which, taken all together, we call the "nectar cycle." This is the AYP view of the ecstatic neurobiology which underlies the energetic evolution we call kundalini. This leads to ongoing ecstatic radiance, which we also call outpouring divine love, stillness in action, the rise of unity, non-duality, etc.
None of this on the ecstatic side will go very far without concurrently cultivating abiding inner silence, and there is also a list of practices for that (deep meditation, samyama, etc). All of it can be integrated and condensed into a relatively short twice-daily practice routine. From there we can go out and live fully, which is how enlightenment is gradually baked into our life. That is AYP.
While all of this fits together conceptually and, more importantly, experientially, no one is asked to take any of it on faith. Practice and find out for yourself.
If you have a different view and approach to kundalini and the role of sexual energy, that is fine. Share it for practical benefit, not to "be right." Kindly do not engage in endless arguments here aimed at redefining what AYP ought to be, or how anyone ought to experience the cause and effect of their practices. It is not appropriate.
Thanks!
The guru is in you.
PS: Traditional definitions of Tantra (left or right handed) are interesting, but not relevant for labeling or redefining what the AYP system is with endless doctrinal arguments. Better not, Alwayson. Practice and enjoy!
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Sex has nothing to do with Kundalini
