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yogalearn
Tunisia
12 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 4:45:49 PM
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Dear AYP people,
My first post. Very glad to have you here! Although I knew the AYP for some time, like a few other members, I came to the AYP because of KM (kechari mudra).
Read 84 AYP Web pages (all of Yogani's KM lessons and all support forum pages with "kechari" in the title). Found almost nothing about cutting the tongue. I wanna cut it all at once. (And then keep snipping AFTERWARDS, if that's necessary. You know, Yogani says he's been snipping on and off for 20 years.)
I was initially thinking about snipping, but after seeing a few YouTube vids where even adolescents were cutting (not snipping) their own frenum with smt like a cutter (non-yogic purposes), I decided to cut it all in one go. After all, this is what the yogins were doing for millenia.
Here's my problem: I don't wanna cut any nerves or arteries/veins, but I couldn't find DETAILED anatomy of the tongue and frenum in the Web.
1. Does anybody know a site with DETAILED anatomy of the tongue and frenum?
2. Any Web sites where there's info on cutting?
3. When cutting, how can I know how deep to go? So that I can avoid accidentally cutting nerves, arteries, or veins.
I'll be REALLY glad for any info and suggestions, recommendations about cutting.
Love
yogalearn |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 4:54:03 PM
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Hi yogalearn and welcome to the AYP forums.
I don't think it is a good idea to snip the entire frenlum in one go....in fact I think that is a bad idea. Your choice, but I think this falls into the "magic bullet syndrome" catalogue. No one practice will take you all the way. Why the obsession with Kechari Mudra? Do you have a stable (daily) meditation practice? Not trying to discourage you, just think balance is more important.
Love,
Carson |
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Aug 26 2009 : 7:07:19 PM
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Hi yogalearn and welcome,
I agree with Carson
+
if you really want, for whatever reason, to do it all at once, find a professional physician to do it for you. Those people study anatomy for many years and know best how to protect your tissues, and they have also the best means to do it. You'll also likely get reliable information as to how to take care of the wound.
Roman |
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yogalearn
Tunisia
12 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 4:41:21 PM
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Carson and Roman,
Thanks for the quick responses.
I knew people would warn me about cutting. I know that it's obviously more risky compared to snipping, but after seeing a few youngsters doing it themselves, at home, w/o very little or no anatomical knowledge or medical training, I'm STILL thinking "I can do that too." Anyway, thanks for your concerns.
My questions are still not answered, so I'LL BE HAPPY IF SOMEONE CAN HELP. Thanks in advance. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 4:45:29 PM
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Hi yogalearn.....
I wasn't warning you not to cut/snip the frenum....I was warning you not to cut/snip the ENTIRE frenum in one go....that is what is dangerous IMO. Perhaps it would be beneficial if you explained the difference between "cutting" and "snipping" from your perspective. I personally have used both cuticle cutters as well as a razor blade. I personally find that I get more length when I stretch and don't snip/cut at all. I find that for me if I am not CONSTANTLY stretching after snipping/cutting I end up with LESS over-all length then when I started. Personally I would stick with stretching....
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Aug 27 2009 4:46:41 PM |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2009 : 6:47:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I find that for me if I am not CONSTANTLY stretching after snipping/cutting I end up with LESS over-all length then when I started. Personally I would stick with stretching....
Love,
Carson
I found the same thing. I think stretching is superior to snipping, although I have not achieved kechari mudra yet. |
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yogalearn
Tunisia
12 Posts |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 10:45:44 AM
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Hi yogalearn...
Free will exists, you can do anything you want. If you feel the need to cut, do it. But I doubt you will get much help from anyone here on how to safely do this for one main reason: there is a good possibility that none of us here have "cut" the frenum. Here at AYP we advocate a "well-rounded" set of spiritual practices and discourage "magic bullet syndrome" type of thinking (thinking that one practice will take you further, or even all the way, then all the others, and hyper-focussing on that one practice), and therefor I highly doubt that anyone has done this here. Most of us here who have a twice daily AYPractice set are of the opinion that "less is more" and we don't try to force things. We take a measured and moderate approach to our practices in order to ensure maximum progress. If you have a large frenum and your tongue is not getting behind the soft palate then it means you need to take some time to work towards getting it there. Rome isn't built in a day. Do you have ecstatic conductivity going on already? If you don't, what exactly do you think kechari mudra is going to do for you? The real benefits of kechari mudra come once ecstatic conductivity is already flowing. It is advisable (IMO) to focus on connecting with the inner silence twice daily through Deep Meditation (link is on the left), purifying the sushumna and awakening the kundalini through Spinal Breathing Pranayama (again link is on the left) with the help of the mudras and bandhas taught here, including Kechari Mudra. Just using Kechari Mudra without the rest of the Practices is like trying to drive an 8 cylinder car with 7 cylinders not working. Not going to be very effective. But again, you have Free Will and will do what you want. I agree with Roman though, if you absolutely NEED to do this in one go, use a professional and have a Frenulum Reduction surgery....at least you will have a better chance of escaping infection that way. Good luck and please be careful!
Love,
Carson |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 10:55:34 AM
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Hi Yogalearn,
If you decide to consider using a professional, depending on how much of the frenum you need cut, some dentists will cut the frenum with a laser which is less severe than traditional Frenulum Reduction surgery that uses a knife-blade.
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Aug 28 2009 10:57:13 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 10:59:57 AM
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Hi Steve....
Not all Frenulum Reduction surgery is done with a knife/blade....my little sister had this done when she was 6, so that would have been in 1993, and they used a laser even then. I'm sure there may still be some places that use a more "manual" technique, but my sister had her surgery done in the hospital (not by a dentist) and it was a long time ago so I imagine most places use lasers now. Maybe not, I have never researched this as it's not a big deal to me. ANYWAYS.....
Love,
Carson
P.S> I don't know what country you are in Steve, but perhaps here in Canada we just have superior health care hahaha....totally joking, our health care sucks ;) (sort of). |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Aug 28 2009 11:05:34 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 11:05:37 AM
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Hi Yogalearn, and welcome!
I concur with the good advise you have been receiving above.
There have been some who have gone for one-step removal of the frenum that have reported about it here in the forums, and others privately in my email. These have all been professionally done, which is the prudent route to go if you are driven to do this.
There are several topics on professional frenum removal in the forums. They can be found with searches on the appropriate terms (particularly "laser"). Here is one that may be helpful: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2387
Wishing you all the best on your path. Practice wisely, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
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alwayson2
USA
546 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 11:09:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogalearn
Cutting: To cut the ENTIRE frenulum (as much as anatomically possible of course). As many Indian yogins and masters have done for millenia and still doing today.
Snipping: To snip tiny pieces of the frenulum using a cuticle nipper or another tool. What most people here in AYP do.
Please watch these 2 if the vids aren't removed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1NU6NNYtr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdWM...ture=related
Love
I actually tried doing this before. If you make a large cut with a scalpel blade, the two edges just heal back together.
In other words, it is pointless.
Cuticle snippers are better for some reason |
Edited by - alwayson2 on Aug 28 2009 11:11:17 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 11:24:03 AM
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Follow-up for Yogalearn:
Here is an aggressive approach to frenum removal that can be self-implemented, and is safer than what you are contemplating: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=497
I do not necessarily recommend this, but if you must self-implement an aggressive approach to frenum removal, then this approach focusing in the center (where the restraining tendon is) would reduce the risk of cutting the arteries on the sides.
There are a variety of other approaches. If you do forum subject line searches on kechari, khechari, frenum, frenulum, snip, laser and other related terms, you will find dozens of practical discussions on kechari mudra here.
When in doubt, go back to Lesson 108, and check the Topic Index for more AYP lessons on kechari mudra. 
It is recommended to keep your yoga practices in balance, and always "self-pace" when things are tending toward any extreme.
The guru is in you.
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 11:44:51 AM
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Hi Carson,
I was under the incorrect impression that for 'full' frenum reduction surgery where all or most of the frenum is removed a knife-blade was used. I knew for less severe frenum reductions they used lasers. Sometimes parts of us ole geysers still live in the past. I guess that part of me pre-dates 1993 somewhere in the neolithic period   . Thanks for the correction.
(BTW, I live in the USA. Now I have a good reason to migrate to Canada, the excellent health care system .)
Love and Light,
Steve
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 28 2009 : 12:36:24 PM
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Well Steve, who knows, you could be right. All I really know for sure is that my sister was technically "tongue-tied" and had "Frenulum Reduction" surgery, which was done with a laser in a hospital in 1993 here in Canada. Other then that, I don't know squat for sure . Never had the desire to research it .
And if you DO decide to migrate to Canada, you may not need your health care insurance but you will need a parka! A real trade off IMO haha.
Love,
Carson |
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yogalearn
Tunisia
12 Posts |
Posted - Aug 30 2009 : 12:35:07 PM
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DEAR CARSON,
Thank you for all of your advises. I understand all of your concerns and you're perfectly right. (Also, as I said before, I've read all of Yogani's KM lessons and all AYP support forum pages on KM – more than 90 pages now.)
I also appreciate your long replies; many people on Internet are soooo lazy, they can't even bother to write a few sentences. (I also write quite long messages, e-mails, letters.)
I've a regular practice of Yoga, pranayama and meditation, many hours every day, so please don't worry about the regular practice thing.
I'll be careful when doing the operation, so don't worry.
Love
DEAR YOGANI,
I understand you concerns. Thanks for the advises. And for establishing such an inportant site; it really fills a gap.
Quote: "If you do forum subject line searches .... you will find dozens of practical discussions"
As I said in my first post, I already did it and read everything I could found in AYP site, more than 90 pages. I've read them all, every single word.
DEAR ALWAYSON2,
Your warning about "the two edges just heal back together." I've heard this from a friend and I'll be careful about it and preventing it. Thank you. |
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prestonchristian23
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2022 : 11:41:36 AM
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Hey bro I know you're frustration. It would seem like most of the moderators answers are some of the same. But I will say they're most likely correct. Going overboard takes a long recovery. I am not a moderator just to practicer that went overboard with just about everything and took a few months if not a few years to fully recover. Beyond that these guys and girls seem quite genuine. Truly wanting to help without wanting anything in return, good Telltale sign that you're in the right place.
That being said let me give you my experience with going to my periodontist and getting mine cut. It was quite painful, I didn't realize that it was more than just a snip. I didn't want to get near the anatomy and especially any veins or vessels underneath my tongue. Well I have a heart of gold for Divinity, but I'm not really a fan of medical stuff even if it's on my body. So that combined with wanting to do it correct got me to talk to a professional... to add on this note the reason why I saw the professional was I was having massive back of the head issues by trying to do too much too quick aka overdoing in many ways before finding AYP( and I have done quite a lot of different stuff, like I am sure you have also) . I mean if you think about it your tongue is a muscle and if it's attached to something that is holding other aspects of your jaw together then pulling that prematurely will cause jaw and head pain. Just ask a craniosacral therapist... that is the person that hinted to me that I was trying to do it too much and it was pulling all the other tendons in my jaw forward causing undue pressure and stress within my head and neck.
Anyway, after you've gone through so much Kundalini stuff before coming to the ayp you kind of don't care what you can tell doctors. So this was I'd say 5 years into trying to figure out what my body was doing, I just straight up told the guy that I had to stop meditating and that meditating was adding to my life. So even though I stopped and the symptoms slowed down I lost my zest for life. He looked at me like a crazy person.
Back to your question, so I ended up getting it cut and what I was surprised to find is 2 weeks after the healing if not 3 weeks, I ended up having to resnip it with the clippers... After so much pain and frustration I obviously didn't care about snipping it anymore LOL.
So in summary, having been someone that has tried all the above. Truly the fastest way is the middle way. A little snip here and there. Because truly what is that that you are snipping??? Most likely an aspect of our body that heals up quite quickly aka mouth area that has to deal with so many germs, so many foreign contaminants that the cell area around your mouth. So just like in ayp doing a little bit at a time is vastly more impactful then a massive burst.
I wanted to Ally your frustration, but coming from all perspectives I also wanted to tell you that I agree with all the moderators above. Having tried everything I know that the quickest way is just Little Snips. Truly, a little bit does go a long way. I know what you mean it almost frustrates me saying that because I know how you felt for so long. So from a perspective that is not an ayp teacher or anything I understand where you're coming from. On a higher level, I can associate with you. If you can resonate with my statement, then know that what the above people said is true.
As I look at just about everything in life, even the Snipping of the tongue. It truly is about self-pacing, you do a little bit of action underneath the tongue after you've had some motivation. Then you take the snip, then you rest. Then you do it over again. Just as the water slowly turns the rock into a Shiva lingam, so too will you mold yourself into that what you seek.
Hope this helps from an outside yet inside perspective.
Love,
P |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2022 : 7:13:14 PM
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| Preston, Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your experience. You are responding to a thread from 2009 so you likely won't be interacting with folks from them, but likely the future. This topic has interested me from my first explorations with AYP after discovering 3+ years ago. Cutting the tongue and amaroli were two practices that made me cautious about taking on AYP. I chose to not do any snipping. I have continued to use my bahkti to slowly stretch my tongue the natural way and I find it has a built in self pacing quality as I continue to grow in ecstatic energy as I am just at the transition to stage 2. I do worry about people who jump right in with practices that have them enter kechari early on before they have a stable footing. There are many folks who come here looking for a quick fix to their life struggles. This journey is a measureed one that requires a maturity and patience that is less present in these days of quick fixes. |
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Kechari: Cut, Don't Snip
