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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 11:43:22 AM
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Before self inquiry, any time I suffered, it was someone else's fault. After self inquiry, I saw how no one else was responsible for me. I create my "heaven" and "hell". I could then drop many many many stories, labels and be free from suffering. The bigger ones (like people should behave a certain way, I should be treated a certain way, I should have all these things to make me happy, etc. ) are easier to drop, but the ones that are closer to heart and an ingrained part of our conditioning (subtle) are harder to drop.
Over the past couple of months, I have been going through loads of highs and lows. None of them last long, but they were getting thrown my way left, right and center. Although in my heart I knew it was important, I was really getting tired of this. Over the two months I have had many openings and realizations. But after every opening, the longing, uneasiness in my heart just came right back. It was like my bhakti was not going to let me rest in my opening and enjoy the high that came with it. I was getting frustrated, because I know and have experienced how the mind keeps all the suffering in place, and yet when in a low, I was completely pulled in. No self inquiry helped.
Here is how I saw it:
Awareness <-------------> Me (mind/body)
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V V
(stillness) (highs/lows)
Things happen and when I am closer to awareness (stillness) I can let it all go.. I know its not happening to me.. it just is. When I am tired, or going thru purification, and the exact same thing happens, I now believe this is all happening to "Me". The beauty is while in awareness and when stuff happens, I can let the attachment to things go.. this becomes a habit, so when in the middle of "identifying with me".. the natural habit of identifying with me now drops faster. Hence the suffering of 3 years can be 3 min now. However, when identified with the "Me", self inquiry did not seem to help at all.
Whenever there is a true letting go, the situation will not cause any reaction, doesn't matter if we are identified with awareness or with our body/mind. If something can cause us any kind of flutter even for a second, we have not let it go completely. But I could not see how to let go the things that were causing me these flutters. That is when I realized, there was more to this than just the mind level self inquiry I was doing. There was healing and letting go needed at levels beyond the mind.
Anyways, three days back I was blessed with a huge opening without the usual "high", just stillness.. access to complete stillness and expansion. I have also had something major revealed to me. I could actually bring up and feel the emotions that accompanied many of the attachments I have not been able to separate myself from. It came to me to bring up the stories and let them go into the stillness I was experiencing. Like samyama. So I did. I brought one up, "my children may not love me in the future", and let it go in stillness. "My mom-in-law may come live with us", let it go, "I may be able to write, but I cannot teach in public, I may make a fool of myself in front of people", let it go, and a few others. As I continued with this, I saw the common thread in all of this... "fear". I saw how everything, everything that was bothering me and that I could not let go had the common emotion "fear" driving it.
So I began to do samyama on the situation, dropped it into silence, then "fear" and dropped it into silence (bringing up the situation brings fear to the heart, so along with the word, I dropped the emotion) and then the "I" and dropped it into silence. I could not see how the "I" fit into this, but since it was "I" feeling this emotion due to the situation, I just went with it.
Soon the situations dissolved and only the emotion of fear remained. I remember someone once telling me or reading somewhere, "you can let go one situation at a time, or you can let it all go at one time. The first way will take forever, but the second will work in an instant". I was clueless as to how I can drop it all at once. There are so many things that make me sad or upset or scared. So I have been going with one thing at a time. Flutter.. hmmmm look into it.. ahh.. identify the story.. OK now drop it.. For the first time, after I saw the common emotion in every situation was "fear". I got how I can let it all go at one time by identifying the one common thread that keeps the string of suffering together.
So I continued samyama on the energy of "fear" and "I". Other than doing a sitting practice of this, outside my meditation time, I started doing this all through the day any time I felt a flutter in me. I looked into what caused the flutter, looked for the underlying emotion, it was always fear, fear of not being perfect, of being judged. So I picked up "fear" and dropped it in silence, then the word "I" and dropped it in silence. I still could not see how the "I" fit into this.
Then yesterday, while doing this practice, I suddenly saw..
"Who is this fear happening to?", "Me".
Who is this me? The container of this energy.
What me? A mother/friend/daughter-in-law.
"I"
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v v v
The situation (not a good mother) -----> fear-----> "Me"
So the mother (label), the fear (emotion) and Me (the container), were three components that kept the "I" in place. No wonder I could never really completely let go. Now when the final component of "me" is dropped the "I" dissolves. I am still working on it. But it seems big and so I thought I'd share it here. Maybe it will help someone else who is having a tough time with "who am I" kind of inquiry. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 12:18:40 PM
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Wow Shanti....
Thank you for sharing (as always  )....
I find it so fascinating that it seems like many of us AYPers seem to go through the same stuff at the same time....like there are common "inquiry threads" that many of us all pick up on at the same time. Fascinating.
I too have been having a similar (not quite the same, but similar) series of inquiry happening the past month or two. I think the culmination of it was during the 10 days I was having migraines. For me it isn't "fear" so much (I don't really "fear" much) as it was "ambition" or "overzealous drive" that was causing me problems. And it wasn't really the issue of pushing it with my practices as much as "pushing myself to progress". But in inquiring into this a bit I realized that I should really be focussing on "who it is that is progressing", and "what is progress when all is right here right now"? In trying so hard to "get somewhere" I lost touch with the reality that there is nowhere to go and noone to get there. It is the "I-ness" that is holding all these ideas of "progress" together. For me it is the lack of meditative or energetic experiences that leads me to feel like there is progress that isn't being made which leads me to frustration and bhakti loops....all of which is what holds the "I" in place. Allowing things to just be as they are without needing to label "phases/levels/stages" helps me to release the "I" hold. I guess you could say that I fear not realizing my true nature in this lifetime....and that this holds the I in place. Better to just let go and let things play out the way they will IMO.
Thanks again for sharing!
Love,
Carson
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 12:28:36 PM
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quote:
Hence the suffering of 3 years can be 3 min now.
Amazing...
quote:
after I saw the common emotion in every situation was "fear". I got how I can let it all go at one time by identifying the one common thread that keeps the string of suffering together.
Great discover,doesnt it?
Thanks for sharing. Im sure your post will help many advanced practicioners.I find it very interesting and inspiring. |
Edited by - miguel on Aug 06 2009 12:47:24 PM |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 1:11:02 PM
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Hi Shanti:
You are homing in on it. This is much in line with the lesson posted yesterday, where a progression of self-inquiry methods is explored: http://www.aypsite.org/350.html
We all begin self-inquiry somewhere, and it evolves as we do. I'd like to say that self-inquiry evolves us, but there is limited evidence to support this, at least not for many people. Rather, it is inner silence that evolves us, and self-inquiry is part of the movement of stillness, and the merging our our I-sense with stillness that comes as a result of cultivating the ability of samyama (releasing intentions/inquiries in stillness).
The reason self-inquiry was not working for you with the "flutters" is because you were reaching a limit with the particular style of self-inquiry (neti neti) you have been using. How many identifications of awareness can we drop? How many stories? How many manifestations of fear? How many flutters? They are unlimited, as you point out. This is a weakness of the "negating" (neti neti) style of self-inquiry. Which is not to say it ought to be thrown out. It is a stepping-stone to a more fundamental (transcending) practice, which you are finding now.
There is one thing that is behind all this, and that is the I-sense, or I-thought. Who is experiencing all these stories? Who is having all these fears? These memories? These anticipations? It is "me," as you say. It is "I." We can see that in every experience we have in life. We can develop it as a feeling: It is "I" to which all these things occur. It is "I" who perceives all. Everything can be traced back to the I-sense.
Then ... Who or what is "I?"
Let that one go in stillness, and you have it. The trick is to feel the "I-sense" as that which is experiencing whatever is happening. Therefore, "Who am I?" must be preceded by, "To whom is this experience occurring?"
This is not an intellectual exercise.
Both questions evolve to become feelings, and become essentially one inquiry that is released in stillness (samyama). This can be taken deep, deep, deep. The procedure will transcend itself, because we can keep asking on ever-finer levels, "Who is having this most subtle feeling about 'Who am I?' ?" ... It is "I." ... And "Who am I?" -- Release. It can be taken to pure radiant emptiness with absolutely nothing manifesting. Not one story, not one thought. It is the light of the Self nipping everything in the bud before any object can be perceived.
In time, this can become our attitude in life, and this is life lived increasingly on the level of the Self, which is unending joy and freedom in whatever may be happening in time and space, even as we are fully engaged in life. Who is engaged?... 
So, yes, you are on to something big. So big that it will disappear into the infinite Self, and take everything with it. Slurp! ... and gone to infinity. You are That. Welcome to advaita/non-duality. Now go do the dishes. 
The question arises, why can't we all start with this style of self-inquiry (what I call "jnana-transcending" in the lesson), instead of spending years and lifetimes getting around to it? The fact that we all get around to it in our own time and way has made the stream-lining process of self-inquiry in the lessons very tricky. It is not like deep meditation, where most of us can start more or less with the same thing, and then here comes the witness. On the other hand, self-inquiry is all over the lot. In AYP we got underneath it by identifying abiding inner silence (the witness) as the common denominator for success with all forms of self-inquiry. But even with that, everyone seems to have their own progression.
I think now we are finally homing in on it, both in the lessons, and experientially, as you have so eloquently described. Nevertheless, it remains a process we each will approach in our own way. This is why self-inquiry will continue to have various styles and stages that make up a progression that each practitioner is going through in developing understanding and experience.
Hopefully, the AYP writings will offer some practical help in this, with Lesson 350 being the most recent addition. More is to come!
The guru is in you.
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 2:15:47 PM
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| I have noticed the practice of Self Inquiry evolves into silence. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 4:01:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I find it so fascinating that it seems like many of us AYPers seem to go through the same stuff at the same time....like there are common "inquiry threads" that many of us all pick up on at the same time. Fascinating.
Yes me too. Not just inquiry, I have even noticed the phases of "highs" and "lows kinda sink up, the phases of experiences at times sink up (you will suddenly have a bunch of questions along the same line). I have been in awe of this. Sometimes I feel it's our group meditations and/or just being a part of the AYP group, that kinda sink up our energies and helps us move along faster. Who know... and it does not really matter..
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
For me it isn't "fear" so much (I don't really "fear" much) as it was "ambition" or "overzealous drive" that was causing me problems.
Yes, it may not be the same emotion for all. However, "ambition" and "overzealous drive" are not emotions, they are the product of an emotion. Look for the underlying emotion behind it if you can. No worries if not. It will come.
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I guess you could say that I fear not realizing my true nature in this lifetime....and that this holds the I in place.
Or maybe you have already figured it out.. you just don't realize it.
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Better to just let go and let things play out the way they will IMO.
Yes, that is all there is to do..can't figure these things out with the mind.. like Yogani said, it is a process, an organic process.. there is no hurrying it, only mediating and cultivating silence.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 4:38:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Or maybe you have already figured it out.. you just don't realize it.
Isn't that always the way
Love,
Carson |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 6:30:04 PM
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Hi Yogani,
I was planning on posting this reply when I posted the reply to Carson, but then had to go do the dishes.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Rather, it is inner silence that evolves us, and self-inquiry is part of the movement of stillness, and the merging our our I-sense with stillness that comes as a result of cultivating the ability of samyama (releasing intentions/inquiries in stillness).
Yes, this is my observation too. That is why, meditation is such a key part of my sadhana and yet, it is like brushing my teeth.. practice meditation and forget about it. I don't look for experiences or expect my meditation session to be a certain way or have a certain outcome. During meditation, I don't try anything new. No matter how tempting it may be (esp. since there is so much silence to play with if I wanted to ), I stick to our basic deep meditation for the 20 min, twice a day. I really believe that has helped me the most in my path. Thank you for this.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
The reason self-inquiry was not working for you with the "flutters" is because you were reaching a limit with the particular style of self-inquiry (neti neti) you have been using. How many identifications of awareness can we drop? How many stories? How many manifestations of fear? How many flutters? They are unlimited, as you point out. This is a weakness of the "negating" (neti neti) style of self-inquiry. Which is not to say it ought to be thrown out. It is a stepping-stone to a more fundamental (transcending) practice, which you are finding now.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree with you. This was a stepping stone that taught me surrender, that taught me to drop, to access the silence. But it was a technique that served its purpose and not being attached to any technique is vital... that why when its time to move beyond the technique, it will be possible to do so.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Then ... Who or what is "I?"
Let that one go in stillness, and you have it. The trick is to feel the "I-sense" as that which is experiencing whatever is happening. Therefore, "Who am I?" must be preceded by, "To whom is this experience occurring?"
This is not an intellectual exercise.
Yes, I can see it now.. I see the "me" that is being dropped. Till I hit this point, it was impossible for me to get the "who am I?" technique. It cannot be intellectual, it cannot be understood with the mind.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Both questions evolve to become feelings, and become essentially one inquiry that is released in stillness (samyama). This can be taken deep, deep, deep. The procedure will transcend itself, because we can keep asking on ever-finer levels, "Who is having this most subtle feeling about 'Who am I?' ?" ... It is "I." ... And "Who am I?" -- Release. It can be taken to pure radiant emptiness with absolutely nothing manifesting. Not one story, not one thought. It is the light of the Self nipping everything in the bud before any object can be perceived.
In time, this can become our attitude in life, and this is life lived increasingly on the level of the Self, which is unending joy and freedom in whatever may be happening in time and space, even as we are fully engaged in life. Who is engaged?...
So, yes, you are on to something big. So big that it will disappear into the infinite Self, and take everything with it. Slurp! ... and gone to infinity. You are That. Welcome to advaita/non-duality.
I will keep at it Yogani. I have been blessed with this stillness that I am making full use of (since there is no high to go with it), really easy to pick a drop emotions, questions, "I"ness into it, even when not in meditation.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
The question arises, why can't we all start with this style of self-inquiry (what I call "jnana-transcending" in the lesson), instead of spending years and lifetimes getting around to it? The fact that we all get around to it in our own time and way has made the stream-lining process of self-inquiry in the lessons very tricky. It is not like deep meditation, where most of us can start more or less with the same thing, and then here comes the witness. On the other hand, self-inquiry is all over the lot. In AYP we got underneath it by identifying abiding inner silence (the witness) as the common denominator for success with all forms of self-inquiry. But even with that, everyone seems to have their own progression.
I think now we are finally homing in on it, both in the lessons, and experientially, as you have so eloquently described. Nevertheless, it remains a process we each will approach in our own way. This is why self-inquiry will continue to have various styles and stages that make up a progression that each practitioner is going through in developing understanding and experience.
Self Inquiry cannot be forced.. it has to come from within and AYP provides the tools to set the grounds for inner silence to move. Then we can all experience jnana yoga (self inquiry) at our own pace and in our own style, rather than trying to fit into someone elses model of self inquiry or someone elses experience.
Thank you Yogani. I really appreciate your input on this. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 6:33:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by miguel
quote:
after I saw the common emotion in every situation was "fear". I got how I can let it all go at one time by identifying the one common thread that keeps the string of suffering together.
Great discover,doesnt it?
It is a wonderful discovery Miguel.. and that is what it is.. a discovery of something that already is us.. just a slight shift within to see the beauty of it.
Thank you for your kind words.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2009 : 6:35:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Balance
I have noticed the practice of Self Inquiry evolves into silence.
Yes.. silence amplifies.. so self inquiry becomes more effective when there is silence, but once self inquiry becomes steady and a natural part of us, it quietens the mind and hence self inquiry enhances/evolves into silence. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2009 : 1:45:39 PM
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Hi Shanti
Thank you for this beautiful topic.
It is so vital with posts like these......it makes something that is not mentally graspable.....perceptible to those reading it...... through the resonant blending of your beautiful direct experience and the words born to describe it.
The screen becomes imbued with it.....the silence 
I learned wordless meanings from your post.....beautiful
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christiane
Lebanon
319 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2009 : 2:41:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
just a slight shift within to see the beauty of it.
The "slight shift" takes so much work and intensity to be reached
I sometimes say to myself, "it's so easy to drop whatever creates tension, whatever prevents me to remain open and flowing in love and silence.. I CAN DO IT right here and right now!!! whatever the situation!"
This simple realization when it happens makes me smile! I just see the whole thing as a theatre play! Everything! I'm such a good actor  especially when it comes to negative emotions and feelings (thank God, they are becoming less frequent).
Thank you Shanti for the clarity of your writing and expression..
It is so clear that I can feel the experience, or at least have a slight fragrance of what it could be, according to what is already in my experience or not yet.
Even reading the post mentally is such a pleasure..
THank you because it opens the brain and allowed me to perceive something beyond the limitations.
PS: I love your little "drawings" to explain what you are going through
LOVE.......
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2009 : 3:07:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I learned wordless meanings from your post.....beautiful
Yes, so much cannot be put in words.. just felt/experienced. Thank you for being in a place where you can be be touched by that.
For a few days, as I go through the samyama self inquiry process of dropping the "I", I have had Nithyananda, Ramakrishna and my husband's family guru, Shri Madhabananda giri maharaj (who, I have never met, he passed away before I was even born I think, but he has been with me all along, sorta in the background, more like getting me all I need, but not taking the limelight.. hence I was surprised by his presence) in my vision, pouring love my way. This morning, while I continued with dropping the "I", I had a feeling of emptiness inside me.. and I went back into "not again, not that pain and longing again".. and then it came to me.. "who is feeling that longing?".. I took it all and gave it to the silence.. and suddenly they (the three gurus outside of me) were in me, in my heart. And my heart feels full (I mean three gurus take up a lot of space ya know.... just kidding!!!).. it reminded me of your experience with heart breathing and Christ. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2009 : 3:25:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by christiane
This simple realization when it happens makes me smile! I just see the whole thing as a theatre play! Everything! I'm such a good actor especially when it comes to negative emotions and feelings (thank God, they are becoming less frequent).
Yes.. we are all acting on the stage of awareness.. the stage is not touched by the emotions and drama of the actors.. but the actors when acting sure seem to forget that and make it a reality to suffer in.
quote:
Originally posted by christiane
It is so clear that I can feel the experience, or at least have a slight fragrance of what it could be, according to what is already in my experience or not yet.
Even reading the post mentally is such a pleasure..
THank you because it opens the brain and allowed me to perceive something beyond the limitations.
PS: I love your little "drawings" to explain what you are going through
You are welcome Christiane. Thank you for being so open to be able to receive it. Funny when I read it, I cannot believe I wrote it.. and that is because I did not, if I had written it, it would not have been so clear.. when the divine flow writes, it knows what to say and how. and I love the drawings too.
Thanks so much for your kind words. |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2009 : 6:31:28 PM
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quote:
Funny when I read it, I cannot believe I wrote it.. and that is because I did not, if I had written it, it would not have been so clear.. when the divine flow writes, it knows what to say and how. and I love the drawings too.
Shanti,
Add me to the list of beautiful souls touched by your words...so powerful and they resonate so deeply...
Its funny, when I am discussing spiritual things, I also sometimes find myself talking and words are coming out, but its pretty clear its not me talking...the words are coming, I'm not sure where they are coming from and they make much more sense than anything "I" could ever say...and when I'm done I'm like "wow, what just happened???" I love it!!
Blessings and love to you dearest Shanti
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 08:26:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Parallax
Its funny, when I am discussing spiritual things, I also sometimes find myself talking and words are coming out, but its pretty clear its not me talking...the words are coming, I'm not sure where they are coming from and they make much more sense than anything "I" could ever say...and when I'm done I'm like "wow, what just happened???" I love it!!
Thanks for your blessings and kind words Parallax.
Yes, it took me a while to realize, that the good stuff came out in my writing, when I was not writing, when I re-read my posts and went, wow.. where did that come from? |
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Dropping the "me"
