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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 7:00:58 PM
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I'm taking a class on advaita. Last night the teacher said something that really surprised me, and I'm wondering if any of you can comment. He was talking about how it's essential (and inevitable) that somewhere along the spiritual path, we disengage from our emotions. Instead of being tripped up by them as most of us are, we have distance from them and are compelled to see them with objectivity, rather than succumbing to their force. I asked him if this was a gradual disentanglement, through years of practice, and this is what he said:
From what can be gathered from those who have experienced it, the disengagement from emotional attachments is not a gradual process, but a sudden and spontaneous 'dropping' of the attachments. There is no effort, but a sudden awareness that one is not participating in sorrow, joy, suffering, jealousy, hatred, fear, and etc. in the same manner. One suddenly notices the ability - again, effortless - to separate and 'watch' their emotions, without experiencing the drama of them. His explanation (which was a conjecture, he admitted) was that the mind cannot coax the mind out of its stupor. After all, it's the mind that created the illusion which causes the pain, and thus it cannot be relied upon to dissuade us from it.
I assume, therefore, that it's an act of grace, and that we don't drop anything. The illusion drops us.
Can anyone speak about this? Has anyone had this experience, or do you know of someone who has? |
Edited by - Manipura on Jul 15 2009 7:01:48 PM |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 7:41:34 PM
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| I bow to the guru. I only jump in because of my interest and love for this practice. In my humble opinion it is neither gradual nor sudden. This question sparks heated sectarian debates. It is different for everyone. For some one phases in and out of clinging mode. For others, there is a sudden shift where all the once was is gone, like waking up from a dream and not caring about that dream anymore. The truth is in one's own mind. This is for you to see. Try sitting for a moment without a care. Were there any emotions? This is a moment by moment inquiry that blossoms into the path. Yet, the attainment of effortlessness is a something one can say is terminal, the finish. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Jul 15 2009 8:02:17 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 8:17:11 PM
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Hi Manipura,
The way I have experienced it, is that it is both sudden and gradual, which could explain the controversy that sometimes surrounds this issue. The experience is called an awakening, when there is no longer identification with the body, or with thoughts or emotions, but with the silent awareness that is the space in which all these things come and go.
In my own experience I found that the first time it happened, the shift came suddenly and lasted for about 3 days. During that time, I was bathed in a powerful white light which made it difficult to see anything. After the three days, my consciousness returned to normal. Then I began to have these awakening experiences occasionally, but they would not last as long, sometimes only for a few minutes at a time. I found that the awakening experiences became gradually more frequent and longer in duration, but each time the shift was sudden, like diving into an ocean.
One second you are not in the ocean, the next, you are.
Christi |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 9:24:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Manipura
Can anyone speak about this? Has anyone had this experience, or do you know of someone who has?
Hi Manipura & All,
Advaita is/would be tough to teach from the realm of conjecture ... and not exactly recommended ... advaita can't really be learned .... just lived; if it's learned ... it's still at the level of mind (sometimes advaitic, sometimes not-so-advaitic).
Sure, I've had this experience; many of us have --- you may have, as well, if you understood what's being said:
The teacher of your class is trying to articulate the witness state; that's all.
From the view of silent awareness (aka the witness) ... there's not that sense of being immersed in the given thought or thought-emotion.
If it's pure emotion (as opposed to thoughts about emotion), there's usually not time to think about it -- or, if any sense of time ... then just pure feeling ... if we think "I'm feeling sad" ... that's mind evaluating the emotion .... not the emotion itself; the emotion itself is more {for example} a pure sob - with no thinking in the moment of the sob.
The witness is awareness *noticing* the intense emotion ... or the non-intense emotion ... or the thought-evaluation about the emotion .... while realizing, either subtly or overtly ... that the awareness experiencing the emotion and the emotion are *not* the same thing.
This is true of thoughts, as well.
Every time silence is experienced in meditation - no thoughts, no emotion - there is the transcending of thought and emotion.
Usually, though, the thought of "me" who is thinking-feeling {happy, sad, ecstatic, confused, frustrated, etc.} not only what it is thinking-feeling ... but that *I* am thinking-feeling it (the thought of "me, experiencing, world").
There's no magical transcendent state of freedom from emotion.
Well, actually --- there are certain advanced practitioners of advaita who do report utter freedom from emotion; you've heard of their technique, I'm sure -- it's called:
*Lying*.
There's nothing advaitic about the concept of a once-and-for-all transcendence of emotions.
What *is* advaitic is the opening of awareness of self as awareness.
Not the thoughts.
Not the emotions.
What is transcended is the conditioned memory which says:
A. "This makes me {sad, angry, whatever}
&
B. *I* am {sad, angry, whatever}
Awareness - consciousness - doesn't need to refer back to thoughts about itself or its conditioning.
That conditioning is stored in memory ... including body-memory ... based on the lifetime conditioning on language-based concepts and social reinforcement ("That's *bad*! Spiritual people don't {get angry, have sex, watch cartoons, have angry sex while watching cartoons, have cartoonish sex while watching anger, etc.}).
"Advaitic Awareness" --- fancy-schmancy Sanskritical-Speaking for the awareness reading these words right now (*Not* the thought that "I am reading" - the awareness that *is* reading ...and/or thinking the thought ... and/or whatever else).
"It is not the eye that sees, but that *by* which the eye sees, that is Brahman the eternal."
(Or Shiva, or Kali, or Self .... or just Awareness.)
Advaita is just the cessation of limited concepts, which appears in exact inverse proportion to how much the belief *in* the limited concepts is disappearing in this moment, now (<- any "other moment" is only a concept held in thinking mind, now - in this moment).
Like This:
1. I am who I think I am.
2. I am silent awareness/I am who I think I am
3. I am silent awareness
4. I am silent awareness *&* all appearing in it, including all thoughts, including any thoughts of limitation.
Pure advaitic awareness is experiencing *every* moment ... from the most limited to the most unlimited .... and every-moment configuration in between.
Some of us recall a time when sensations, thoughts and emotions seemed to comprise the *totality* of who we are.
No witness, no silence .... just suffering.
Then ... silence/witness appears/is appearing.
The rest of it is just (effectively) a momentum kinda thing ... to finally opening to the awareness of self as awareness.
But *not* an awareness transcendent from form .... awareness informing form; including form.
True freedom isn't freedom from emotion; it's freedom from concepts *about* emotion.
*Pure* emotion is Living Art; Living, Unbound -- freedom *from* the glorious forms of human being is either fantasy ... or the very definition of hell.
The only thing to escape from is the untrue ideas with which we create suffering.
And once escape is made ... *good* .... we return with open arms to include and love and celebrate it *all* .... minus the conceptual limitations.
That's all advaita is.
Awareness of awareness as the awareness you are, right now.
Neo-advaita tends to be kind of *dry* ... both because it's not understood, and it's being taught by people teaching "this is it", when *they* still experience life as the conditioned, mental-emotional thought-self.
If I thought *that* was it, I'd freakin' shoot myself!!
(Or practice AYP for a few years, and enjoy joyously realizing that life is beautiful ... it was only erroneous conditioned thoughts, which have no basis in reality ... including who I "thought" I was ... that can be thought not to be beautiful.)
If you're not experiencing self as awareness (anyone reading) ... you likely *can* ... (unless you've just started practices) ... it's called: inner silence.
So what if the next moment you "are who you think you are"?
Or you have a "bad day"?
Just.
Keep.
Practicing.
Awareness is all that's really here; AYP helps open "us" (the limited ideas of self) into dissolution into this reality of awareness we actually are, ever-now.
Including every delicious, fully-felt emotion.
The only purpose in detaching from anything, is to dissolve limited ideas about it.
What about those who have "realized"?
I've never met any who don't experience emotions *very* fully.
I've never met any who don't have thoughts.
They both happen .... they both *go with the body-mind* ... they're created by the body-mind .... they're *memory* ... as are concepts about the body-mind.
Reality is now.
Advaita is now.
Emotions are now.
Unitive Awareness is now.
Having a crappy day is now (as the experiencing of the pure awareness forgetting it isn't any thoughts it has about having a crappy day).
I hope this helps, now.
Heart Is Where The AUM Is --- Can Ya *FEEL* It??
Kirtanman |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 9:47:00 PM
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| I bow to the guru. Kirtanman, There is a freedom from the emotions of anger and fear. On the path the confusions that result in these emotions are experienced less and less, until they are no longer experienced. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 11:58:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Konchok �sel Dorje
I bow to the guru. Kirtanman, There is a freedom from the emotions of anger and fear. On the path the confusions that result in these emotions are experienced less and less, until they are no longer experienced.
Good to know!!
And yes, I'm familiar with the teaching (cessation of anger and fear).
I admit that I'm not "shooting for" the textbook statements, and that there is a little (in my genuine mode of expression) a bit of "shooting from" the hip.
As in: being familiar with the teaching, I didn't "think through" or consciously remember that liberation from anger and fear are part of buddha nature, according to the teaching.
I find that I'm less interested in teachings and what they indicate, these days -- and more interested in actual experiencing.
In my (quote-unquote) experiencing -- there is utter cessation of anger and fear.
In this moment.
The only actual moment.
Is there recent memory of anger or fear?
Yeah, a little of each, recently. Very little. So what?
What value is either imagination of a future state, or memory of a recent one?
Freedom from anger or fear -- or any other emotion or emotion-oriented thought-constructs, largely means freedom from *concepts* surrounding thoughts attaching to emotional *reactions* (which is what emotions are - a re-action ... an action, a movement, based on memory).
If I experience a bus bearing down on me, unexpectedly ... the body-mind will likely kick up some fear; it's *supposed* to -- stuff like that helps keep the organism ... organisming ... good engineering, that.
Anger .... that I don't know about; like fear, I can imagine the visceral, body-mind reaction (literally: *imagine* - create an image of thought-constructs, based on memory - which I am aware includes the "I" part) - a "flash" of anger or fear .. but, just a flash; there's no longer the inclination to think up a limited me, holding a limited world, to limited standards which I remember-imagine in limited mind.)
Is there, therefore, any part of "buddha nature" I'm blind to?
No.
Might there be "less" anger or fear, when creating some future now?
Who knows?
There's none now - so, hey - you are correct, sir!
And - "point being", for each all of us: are you free from anger and fear in this moment? Does it matter (whether you are, or are not)? "Who suffers"? <- Literally.
Freedom from anger and fear are not too meaningful as concepts, or as evaluation of "attainment".
As *benefits* of resting in the natural state - they're awesome - right up until they become any kind of standards, conceptually.
In fact, I'll go out on a limb (this one, here!) - and point out: the *important* part of the teaching concerning anger and fear is *not* to evaluate or even to enjoy the condition of the absence of those emotions .... but rather, to point out (<- the teaching) that the limited idea thought of as "me" is a *bundle* OF anger and fear; that's basically *all* it is.
And so, freedom from anger and fear doesn't mean never experiencing an emotion which can be labeled such; freedom from anger and fear means that the "knot of the thought of me" ("knotty me", for short!  ) *unravels* ... and anger and fear, rather than being close to *primary* ... become unusual flashes of happening connected with the body-mind ... but not at all with Who I Am.
That's my sense of the teaching.
I hope it is helpful.
And Konchok - I do sincerely, thank you for your comments - they almost always seem to draw awareness, attention, articulation further into even greater light ... which is quite literally what we're here for.
Intending Freedom From Conceptual Limitation for All,
Kirtanman |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 08:56:56 AM
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Konchok Osel Dorje,
At the moment I'm experiencing a profound shift away from Advaita and towards Mahamudra/Dzogchen (I've yet to figure out the difference, thus you can see how new this is). I'm not at all sure why this should be, though even my ishta has re-manifested Herself in a Vajrayana context. Could you recommend a key text or two, something easily digested (I'm drawn to Thinley Norbu and just ordered White Sail) but authentic? Is there any Mahamudra meditation worth practicing without a teacher? Though I'm just dabbling at the moment I'm already getting profound insights though I know I'm barely scratching the surface.
Namaste,
gri |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 09:49:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
Is there any Mahamudra meditation worth practicing without a teacher? Though I'm just dabbling at the moment I'm already getting profound insights though I know I'm barely scratching the surface.
Namaste,
gri
Gri - I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I have a book that had a lot of useful ideas/practices. It's "Mahamudra Tantra" by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. He's the founder of the New Kadampa Tradition, which some people have problems with, but he's awakened, brilliant, and extremely wise.
As for the rest of the discussion here, I tend to think, or I want to believe, that complete freedom from the bondage to emotions is possible this side of the grave. Whether or not we realize the goal is quite another thing. I'd consider it a great accomplishment to breathe one breath without attachment. There may be a lot of 'pre-enlightened ones' out there who claim a detachment that they don't really own, but the fact that it's written about so extensively throughout history makes me think it's attainable. Might as well aim for it, anyway, and who knows? Grace happens.. |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 09:52:19 AM
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I bow to the guru:
Three books:
Clarifying the Natural State by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal, very concise and excellent only 100 pages.
Crystal Clear by Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche, also short and a companion to Clarifying the Natural State
Hundred Thousand Songs of Milarepa, very long but extremely excellent teacher in a book about Mahamudra experience.
All these books talk about preliminary practice or four foundations. These preliminaries are not to be skipped. But you should soak up as much knowledge of Mahamudra as you can before starting the preliminaries. |
Edited by - Konchok Ösel Dorje on Jul 16 2009 09:52:52 AM |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 10:15:28 AM
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Thank you, Meg and Konchok Osel Dorje.
Meg, I'm not really bothered by all the controversy over these lineages - I think e-sangha is a ridiculous stew of self-regard anyway, and they seem to be the source of most of the bad-mouthing. I don't even have a problem with Traktung Rinpoche - I'd like to have a drink with him! - so I guess that makes me a heretic straight off the bat. Add Sartre and Kashmir Shaivism and Vajra Hell is no doubt yawning beneath my feet... So thanks, I'll check out the book.
K.O.D., that was my plan - to soak up as much as poss. I hope to be back in the UK soon, and there is a strong mahamudra community where I'll be living (the teacher is a disciple of Thubten Yeshe). It's funny - I've gone from an attitude of totally refusing any idea of ngodro (the idea of prostrations really bothers me for some reason, obviously some karmic resistance there), to sort of looking forward to it. Odd. AND I woke up this morning with the name 'Niguma' ricocheting around in my head, after several nights dreaming about Yeshe Tsogyal and Machig Labdron. I'm just going along with it...
Love!
gri
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 10:33:49 AM
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| Sorry, Meg - I hijacked your thread... Too much coffee... |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 10:45:34 AM
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But since I'm here, and to get back to your original question (AND Sartre), my strongest experience was, as I said on the other thread, on the London Underground one day, going to work. I was on a fairly crowded train, and I suddenly became overwhelmed, terrifyingly, by the people around me. I felt no separation at all between them and me, and it was a horrifying burden. Everything - the people, the train, London going past outside, was all ME, rushing into me, filling me up with a sort of white noise. I did actually feel nausea. If I hadn't read Sartre's 'Nausea' I would have had no idea what was happening, but luckily I managed to contextualize it and ride the experience out (it went on for a while, and kept happening for about a month, though much less severely).
So not a pleasant experience by any means. If I think about it now, the inrushing - if I had known to just let it be - would have folded everything (me included) in on itself and I would have witnessed the Void, and though one part of me knows I'd probably have been carted off at the next station in a straitjacket, I kind of wish I'd let things play out. But what I remember is the vertigo - mental and physical, and the SHOCK of realizing all barriers, the cell walls of 'me,' had become terrifyingly porous.
But I've also found, over the years, that to literally, passionately lose oneself in a crowd can be a very profound form of meditation/non-meditation on Self. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 11:05:25 AM
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Hi All:
The view from here is that emotions do not cease, but self-identification with them does. All it takes is abiding inner silence (witness), and progressing gradually from there to the direct experience of radating divine love and all-inclusive unity.
It can happen with leaps (awakenings), followed by retracements -- ups and downs. A smoother unfoldment might be preferred, which is what the AYP approach aims for.
Along the way, the base emotions are transmuted to divine purpose, just as all karma is. So there is a noticable change in conduct. But at other times base emotions may seem to be expressed, like Jesus driving the money-changers from the temple in a rage, or expressing fear about his impending execution. The difference is the lack of self-identification, so such episodes leave little or no samskara trace. This dynamic imbues even the base emotions with divine purpose. In the enlightened one, compassion and outpouring divine love will utilize the full range of human attributes.
This is not something out of reach for anyone in this lifetime. All it takes is a sincere commitment to a chosen ideal, and daily engagement in effective practices. A normal life need not be left behind. Indeed, enlightenment is normal life. What most in the world are living is abnormal. The secret is out...
The guru is in you.
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godrealized
India
4 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 11:26:21 AM
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Manipura... when we proceed through the path of Neti (not this, not this) as preached and advocated by Maharishi Ramana... it is like peeling the onion. In the last what remains is... absolutely nothing but God Almighty!
At any stage of life we are passing through as a human being... We exist between karmic scales of 7.300001 and 8.400000. Stated in simpler words... if before the start of the journey we were one KG of pure gold in 84 KG's of gold ore... then by traveling the spiritual path... our dross the impurities within gradually reduce.
Slowly it comes to one KG of pure gold in 80 KG's of gold ore... then one KG of pure gold in 50 KG's of gold ore... and finally the ratio comes to one KG of pure gold in two KG's of gold ore. The moment one KG of impurities removed further... one reaches the stage of Mahavira, Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ or Prophet Mohammed!
By assimilating the wisdom contained in the sacred scriptures... we let go our ignorance... the dross impurities within! Gradually we rise higher on the spiritual platform. Imagine someone fighting a friend on the ground floor. This person immediately takes an elevator and goes to 80th floor. He comes out into the balcony and looks at his friend below.
He wonders why he was fighting at all. Better to forgive one! The same happens in the spiritual field. When we look at both sides of the same coin... we tend to forgive one... let go our ignorance... the dross impurities within!
quote:
Originally posted by Manipura
I'm taking a class on advaita. Last night the teacher said something that really surprised me, and I'm wondering if any of you can comment. He was talking about how it's essential (and inevitable) that somewhere along the spiritual path, we disengage from our emotions. Instead of being tripped up by them as most of us are, we have distance from them and are compelled to see them with objectivity, rather than succumbing to their force. I asked him if this was a gradual disentanglement, through years of practice, and this is what he said:
From what can be gathered from those who have experienced it, the disengagement from emotional attachments is not a gradual process, but a sudden and spontaneous 'dropping' of the attachments. There is no effort, but a sudden awareness that one is not participating in sorrow, joy, suffering, jealousy, hatred, fear, and etc. in the same manner. One suddenly notices the ability - again, effortless - to separate and 'watch' their emotions, without experiencing the drama of them. His explanation (which was a conjecture, he admitted) was that the mind cannot coax the mind out of its stupor. After all, it's the mind that created the illusion which causes the pain, and thus it cannot be relied upon to dissuade us from it.
I assume, therefore, that it's an act of grace, and that we don't drop anything. The illusion drops us.
Can anyone speak about this? Has anyone had this experience, or do you know of someone who has?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 4:23:51 PM
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Hi Kirtanman,
quote:
In fact, I'll go out on a limb (this one, here!) - and point out: the *important* part of the teaching concerning anger and fear is *not* to evaluate or even to enjoy the condition of the absence of those emotions .... but rather, to point out (<- the teaching) that the limited idea thought of as "me" is a *bundle* OF anger and fear; that's basically *all* it is.
And so, freedom from anger and fear doesn't mean never experiencing an emotion which can be labeled such; freedom from anger and fear means that the "knot of the thought of me" ("knotty me", for short! ) *unravels* ... and anger and fear, rather than being close to *primary* ... become unusual flashes of happening connected with the body-mind ... but not at all with Who I Am.
This has been my experience too. It reminds me of something that one of my Buddhist teachers once said:
"Enlightenment does not mean that you do not feel emotions any more, it means that you feel what you feel, and you stay free." [Ajhan Munindo]
Christi |
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Konchok Ösel Dorje
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2009 : 8:39:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi All:
The view from here is that emotions do not cease, but self-identification with them does. All it takes is abiding inner silence (witness), and progressing gradually from there to the direct experience of radating divine love and all-inclusive unity.
It can happen with leaps (awakenings), followed by retracements -- ups and downs. A smoother unfoldment might be preferred, which is what the AYP approach aims for.
Along the way, the base emotions are transmuted to divine purpose, just as all karma is. So there is a noticable change in conduct. But at other times base emotions may seem to be expressed, like Jesus driving the money-changers from the temple in a rage, or expressing fear about his impending execution. The difference is the lack of self-identification, so such episodes leave little or no samskara trace. This dynamic imbues even the base emotions with divine purpose. In the enlightened one, compassion and outpouring divine love will utilize the full range of human attributes.
This is not something out of reach for anyone in this lifetime. All it takes is a sincere commitment to a chosen ideal, and daily engagement in effective practices. A normal life need not be left behind. Indeed, enlightenment is normal life. What most in the world are living is abnormal. The secret is out...
The guru is in you.
Not all emotions cease. Compassion, love, caring, even wrath at injustice continue. The egoistic concerns cease. Thus egoistic emotions cease. To say that one's self-identification with the emotions ceases is not different than saying the emotions identified with a non-existing self cease.
Without a self-concern, the experience that would otherwise be identified as fear or anger are experienced (transmuted) as some other feeling, like exuberance or joy. Lust is experienced as generosity and caring, etc.
Even these experiences for a fully enlightened being are not felt, because the only experience is the voidness, emptiness, Brahman, Self etc, which is changeless. It is not God, because one doesn't feel like "I AM GOD." One feels very humble knowing nothing, but nondualisticly recognizing no external entity to join or any internal entity to name. Yet, one cannot deny the presence pervading all phenomena. The feelings are experienced as mere phenomena like viewing a storm cloud and a rainbow. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2009 : 06:06:21 AM
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Hi Meg,
I've found just recently that one of the top methods to find where you are on your emotional detachment scale is to spend some time with your parents!
They are absolutely superior in triggering old emotional patterns, and how you manage to meet those emotions coming up is a great test of significance!
I just passed through "humiliation from father" and the correlation between 'emotional response' (=anger, rage, shame, disgust and more) and 'identification' was estimated to r=.05, n.s., while the correlation between 'sensing the emotions fully' and 'non-identification' was estimated to r=.95, p>.001, thus, highly significant! That's great freedom from an abusive conditioning that started at the age of 5, duration: daily episodes up to age 16 when I moved out, occasionally after that for 24 more years.
[a late edit: Sorry, I can't help it... being an old statistic nerd I must add that I'm REALLY discovering the True meaning of "Degrees of freedom"... LOL! ]
It took some The Work, some The Form, some daily practices, and some divine spontaneous insights...
It came to me (after a long and rather amazing series of events, which I might tell about in another topic) the knowing of the kinship between the words:
Humilitation - Humility
Same stem. The egoic mind will interpret different events in life as humiliating by default. Humiliation is a devaluation of the Person (the egoic structures) and is mostly perceived very negatively. Well... we will be humiliated in life, by life events or by others, as long as we attach that type of value to our little selves and find that other people don't always respect the value we think we deserve. In short, when we are at war with "what is", to quote Byron Katie. On which planet are parents not humiliating their children? Well, obviously not on this planet - if we think otherwise, that it SHOULDN'T be like this, we are at war with what is and we will suffer! When I stopped fighting the fact that my father is still humiliating in his ways, I saw the treasure in this behaviour! As usual - pain wakes us up - some The Work on it revealed what was going on inside of me, projected outwards!
I was humbled at the insight of how we will suffer from degradation until we upgrade our Self as that which has the Real Value, and the Self is always untouched by any type of humiliation, since it's beyond the person! And once again (oh, it has happened so many times now, yet, it's still so unfathomable) I realized how enormous the intelligence is, with it's exquisite ways to wake us up!
Humilitation gives birth to humility, a profound human ability!
In the Swedish language, it becomes even more beautiful:
Humility = ödmjukhet, which would be "softening to one's destiny"
Humiliation = förödmjukelse, which would be "pre - softening to one's destiny"
So before we soften and allow and accept our destiny/What Is (for example a destiny to have an abusive father) in humility, as humble servants of the Great, we are bound to experience humiliation and take all those emotions that come with that seriously!
AUM
PS. And... as usual for me... not until AFTER this insight had dropped down, I opened "An autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda, and I found this text, confirming my new insight, where he describes the harsh ways of his master Sri Yukteswar towards his disciples:
quote:
Students came, and generally went. Those who craved an easy path - that of instant sympathy and comforting recognitions of one's merits - did not find it at the hermitage. Master offered his disciples shelter and shepherding for the aeons, but many students miserly demanded ego-balm as well. They departed; preferring, before any humility, life's countless humiliations.
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Edited by - emc on Jul 20 2009 05:43:14 AM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2009 : 09:55:35 AM
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thk you for opening this beautiful topic Manipura and for everyone taking part in the discussion.
my experience is similar to that of Christy's first post.
love |
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Spontaneous Non-attachment
